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Doom 4 was not 'exciting' enough, sent back to the drawing board

Hey, remember Doom 4? Bethesda admits that it "did not exhibit the quality and excitement" it needed to, while a new report goes into what went wrong with the game's development.

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Hey, remember Doom 4? It was announced nearly five years ago, so we thought maybe Bethesda and id Software had forgotten about it. But apparently, no. It's been quite troubled--something that Bethesda VP of marketing and PR Pete Hines admitted.

"An earlier version of Doom 4 did not exhibit the quality and excitement that id and Bethesda intend to deliver and that Doom fans worldwide expect," Hines said. "As a result, id refocused its efforts on a new version of Doom 4 that promises to meet the very high expectations everyone has for this game and this franchise. When we’re ready to talk about the Doom 4 id is making, we will let folks know."

Although the admission is odd, Bethesda's continued silence on the game continues the trend. At QuakeCon last year, id's John Carmack said: "Doom 4 is being done in 'Bethesda mode' where we're still not talking about it. It's done when it's done and we don't want people reading more into it than they should."

However, Kotaku says that the project has been doomed and "plagued by mismanagement," according to its sources. They report that some had jokingly described the game as "Call of Doom," as its focus on scripted set pieces and "the obligatory vehicle scene" made it feel more like Activision's popular military FPS, than a proper Doom game. "There was kind of the recognition that in order to be a big shooter these days, you have to have some amount of the big, bombastic movie experience that people get pulled through," one source said.

Thankfully, "Call of Doom" was scrapped, with Carmack reminding the team that "Doom means two things: demons and shotguns." However, the critical and financial failure of Rage threw another wrench in Doom 4's development. A new mandate was passed down to the studio: "Just do Doom 4." And with that, the team had to undergo a creative and tech reboot--whilst trying to mesh with the Rage team. It led to a "power struggle," according to the report.

Since then, Kotaku claims that "most of id's top talent has left or been fired," with another source saying that "people were leaving steadily through last year." With the game "never even close to a shipped product," Doom 4 could become the industry's next Duke Nukem Forever.

From The Chatty

  • reply
    April 3, 2013 8:35 AM

    Andrew Yoon posted a new article, Doom 4 was not 'exciting' enough, sent back to the drawing board.

    Hey, remember Doom 4? Bethesda admits that it "did not exhibit the quality and excitement" it needed to, while a new report goes into what went wrong with the game's development.

    • reply
      April 3, 2013 8:39 AM

      Bummer. But if another delay makes Doom 4 better, that's fine. I'm hoping for a return to sprawling, nonlinear levels teeming with monsters and tons of ammo. Until I get that, I've got plenty (too many) of other games to play!

      • reply
        April 3, 2013 8:40 AM

        It's multiplatform.

      • reply
        April 3, 2013 1:16 PM

        How would you feel about Dead Space 1 crossed with DooM's setting? I am quite convinced that that is what we will end up with. Initially I was reluctant as I saw the change of pace it would entail as a fatal floor. Now though I can't really see a Serious Sam or Painkiller Doom4 working for a mass market audience. Back tracking, horror, demons, a station planet or ship overrun - the only thing I can't square is non closet shocks when ammo is plentiful?

    • reply
      April 3, 2013 8:41 AM

      Doom 4 could become the industry's next Duke Nukem Forever.

      Or at least the next Daikatana.

      • reply
        April 3, 2013 8:48 AM

        That only makes sense if they aren't scrapping the whole project. It sounds like they are essentially starting over.

        • reply
          April 3, 2013 12:11 PM

          That's not true, because DNF was never actually cancelled.

          • reply
            April 3, 2013 12:12 PM

            Oh, wait. Nvm. Misread that.

      • reply
        April 3, 2013 8:59 AM

        Diablo3 went through the same scenario. It ended up selling great but they created an emotionless pile.

        Pictures later surfaced of original build and it looked great.

        • reply
          April 3, 2013 9:16 AM

          That's true. They even made some massive changes to the skills tree pretty close to the end.

      • reply
        April 3, 2013 2:56 PM

        Who's bitch will I be made into?

      • reply
        April 3, 2013 3:34 PM

        Yes if the game doesn't come out for another decade.

      • reply
        April 4, 2013 10:22 PM

        I doubt that.

    • reply
      April 3, 2013 8:42 AM

      wat

    • reply
      April 3, 2013 8:46 AM

      Having read "Masters of Doom", can't say I'm surprised to hear this.

      • reply
        April 3, 2013 8:11 PM

        ^^^
        this right here.
        Before when i was a kid i would think working at id would be a dream come true, until i read the book and watched some interviews with original id crew. seemed to me that there has always been drama during development a new title at id

      • reply
        April 3, 2013 9:18 PM

        Having played Rage, which is the only major game they've done since Doom (2003) I'm not surprised to hear this either....

    • reply
      April 3, 2013 8:47 AM

      Doom 4 just needs to be a good shooter. Those were the best parts of Rage.

    • reply
      April 3, 2013 8:55 AM

      This is some bad news.

      Gaming is an art and art can't be forced. We need a new influence other than creating revenue.

    • gmd
      reply
      April 3, 2013 8:56 AM

      Carmack lied, gamers cried

    • reply
      April 3, 2013 8:58 AM

      how hard was it for them to just have done Doom 3 + large open area maps + large mobs of monsters?

      worked for Doom -> Doom 2

      • reply
        April 3, 2013 9:13 AM

        Doom 2 came out a year after Doom, ran on almost the exact same tech, and had a total production staff of about 15 people. They also didn't have Bethesda executives yelling at them to clone Call of Duty.

        The Call of Duty Flameout didn't happen until last year, after the demise of Kaos (Homefront), and the death of the Medal of Honor modern military franchise.

        Megatexture was also a boondoggle, but Id would never demo a real-world scenario, so we didn't see its weaknesses until Rage was released. Id Tech 5 could still be a good foundation with a reworked renderer, but if most of Id's engine talent walked, there's not much hope for Id or Bethesda to use that tech, let alone to license it.

    • reply
      April 3, 2013 9:00 AM

      what did id create between doom3 (2003) and rage (2011)?

      i'm trying to think and can't think of anything. quake 4 was raven right?

      • gmd
        reply
        April 3, 2013 9:01 AM

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Id_software#Games_developed_by_Id_Software

        just quake live and some mobile conversions

        • reply
          April 3, 2013 9:02 AM

          and before that, quake 3 was 1999. what the fuck do they do? i loved quake and doom as much as anyone but can we stop sucking their cocks forever when they made TWO full-release games in like 11-12 years?

          • reply
            April 3, 2013 9:04 AM

            They build games from the ground up...

        • reply
          April 3, 2013 9:03 AM

          They also provided some guidance on Wolfenstein 2009, since that's their IP.

          • reply
            April 3, 2013 1:19 PM

            Loved that game, in the end. I mean so frustrating at first then you get to the Farmhouse sniping mission and suddenly all kinds of stuff opens up. Not Wolf necessarily but great fun and made me wonder about why what had gone before had gone before.

      • reply
        April 3, 2013 9:04 AM

        Several smaller mobile projects, resurrection of evil, ET:QW.

        • reply
          April 3, 2013 9:04 AM

          I thought quake wars was Splash Damage

          • reply
            April 3, 2013 9:06 AM

            Ah, you're right.

            • reply
              April 3, 2013 11:13 AM

              From the ETQW credits:

              "id Software

              Enemy Territory: Quake Wars is an id Software game and is powered by id Software's id Tech 4 game engine. Production, development and technical assistance have been provided by id Software, with specific contributions by
              Executive Producer Kevin Cloud
              Producer Jason Kim
              Programming John Carmack, Robert A. Duffy, Jan Paul van Waveren, Timothee Besset, John Dean, Brian Harris
              Art Patrick Duffy
              Design Steve Rescoe, Christian Antkow, Jerry Keehan
              Animation John Root, Eric Web
              Sound Christian Antkow
              Business Development Marty Stratton, Steve Nix
              Special Thanks Tim Willits, Todd Hollenshead, Matt Hooper, Mal Blackwell, Adam Pyle, Andy Chang, Seneca Menard, Dan Sarkar, Vitaliy Naymushin, Kenneth Scott, James Houska, Victor Mercieca (Vexar), Grayson Wendell, David Haley
              Additional Map Development Nerve Software"

              (Notice almost as many people from id worked on ETQW as the entire Doom 3 team, notice also that the programming was ETQW specific. So that is in addition to the idTech 4 engine).

              and Quake 4:

              "id Software

              Executive Producer Tim Willits
              Sound Design Christian Antkow
              Programming Jan Paul van Waveren, Timothee Besset, Robert A. Duffy
              Design Mal Blackwell, Jerry Keehan
              Quake II Xbox Programming Brian Harris
              Art Kenneth Scott"

              and Wolfenstein(2009):

              "

              id Software

              Executive Producer Kevin Cloud
              CEO Todd Hollenshead
              Director of Business Development Steve Nix
              Package Design Stephan Martinière
              Community Manager Peter Sokal"

              • reply
                April 3, 2013 12:41 PM

                and Doom 3 ROE:

                "Additional development support by id Software

                Executive producer Matt Hooper
                Associate Producer Jason Kim
                Designer Steve Rescoe
                Animators James Houska, John Root, Eric Webb
                Lead Artist Kenneth Scott"

      • reply
        April 3, 2013 9:30 AM

        They had another game but it was scrapped during development. IIRC it went past pre-production and was set on an island.

        • reply
          April 3, 2013 9:42 AM

          At QCon 2007, Carmack said it was called either Darkness or The Darkness, but it was unrelated to the comic book or the band. I don't remember exactly how he phrased it but basically he implied that when word got out in the game developer community that they had stopped working on it, 2K or whoever took the chance to potentially cash in on any consumer confusion (if, I'm guessing, it got leaked out) and ran out to go license the comic book by the same name and that that was "a separate issue we're addressing".

          Nothing further is known on it though.

      • reply
        April 3, 2013 9:52 AM

        Doom BFG

      • reply
        April 3, 2013 10:33 AM

        In one of his Quakecon keynotes, Carmack talked about the failures of the RAGE project a little. The biggest issue was that early on, the art guys didn't know exactly what they could and could not do as the tech side fleshed out how megatexturing would work on dynamic objects. Eventually Carmack told them to go ahead and just do whatever and he'd make it work. This turned out to be a huge mistake as the technical issues were quite complex, and by the time he realized it, it was too late as the art side had already completed a ton of shit. In the end, between the challenges of megatexture and the stress it put on the art side, everything got utterly fucked.

        He said that, in retrospect, they SHOULD have done one more game engine using megatexture mostly only for the static map, somewhere halfway between Quake Wars and Rage.

        The rest of this is speculation, but I believe that at least a third of RAGE was cut because of this. I also suspect it led to the Bethesda buy-out. It definitely destroyed what was left of their reputation after Monster Closets.

    • reply
      April 3, 2013 9:01 AM

      I was not happy about Willits' project management on Rage, but whoever greenlit "Call of Doom" better have had their priorities reset, if not ushered out of the building. Project management in games in the past 4 years has been turned on its head in general, but there was some bad leadership at Id, and us gamers knew it when we heard all of the controller evangelism, car racing fanaticism, and lack of focus on the FPS mechanic. Yes, I can empathize with why financially that had to be done, but the horse is already out of the barn.

      Nick Breckon's departure from Bethesda to take up a writing position at Telltale has interesting timing; probably not related, but interesting timing. It's sad when Pete Hines can be more frank about Doom 4 than Todd Hollenshead, Tim Willits, or John Carmack.

    • reply
      April 3, 2013 9:03 AM

      Wait a sec. Rage sits at 81% on MC and that makes it a critical failure?

      • reply
        April 3, 2013 9:04 AM

        85 is the new "I would give it an 80".

      • reply
        April 3, 2013 9:27 AM

        I actually enjoyed Rage once I got past the texture popping. The area that happens the worst in is unfortunately right at the beginning of the game. If you fix that and give it a proper ending it would be considered at the very least a very good game. There are moments of brilliant level design, the art direction was excellent, guns felt very "id" which is a good thing. I was shocked they let it ship with such severe pop in issues and effectively no real ending though.

        • reply
          April 3, 2013 9:33 AM

          The ending really killed it, so anticlimactic. There is less "popping" with a more powerful pc.

          • reply
            April 3, 2013 4:55 PM

            That's not true

            Popping like mad on my core I7, 16gb, gtx 670 3gb

            • reply
              April 4, 2013 11:55 AM

              Patch the game, search google for a fix. My statement is true.

      • reply
        April 3, 2013 9:38 AM

        When you consider the sorry state of video gaming journalism, yea, it is a failure. Anything that doesn't get an 8.5 is basically garbage nowadays.

        • reply
          April 3, 2013 9:44 AM

          The shack has no numerical values.

          The shack has no values. The shack has no cares.

          • reply
            April 3, 2013 11:22 AM

            the shack is different :P I'm just pointing out that you can't look at metacritic scores and judge a game's quality. Yes, it sounds ridiculous, but with score inflation and shitty journalism, that's the state of affairs at the moment.

      • reply
        April 3, 2013 11:04 AM

        I bought Rage about a month ago and the texture popping is hardly recognizable in its current version (my hardware specs: Radeon 7870, i5, 4GB RAM, SSD). I think the engine feels very solid and the large, organic levels are really awesome. It's a lot of fun as a shooter; the vehicle stuff is so-so, but not terrible. I don't consider Id Software a kick-ass game developer anymore since Quake 4 and Doom 3, but I think Rage was a slight step up from those past games, although its release was screwed up.

      • reply
        April 3, 2013 5:08 PM

        Yes because there's a billion games with ratings better than that.

    • reply
      April 3, 2013 9:07 AM

      Ugh. I was hoping this was on well on track and playable at E3. :(

      Hopefully this doens't mean it's changing to a third person, cover-based action shooter.

    • reply
      April 3, 2013 9:09 AM

      but they still released Doom 3... HEYO

      • reply
        April 3, 2013 9:09 AM

        Quake 4

        • reply
          April 3, 2013 9:32 AM

          Quake 4 wasn't made by id and it was pretty awesome.

          • reply
            April 3, 2013 9:39 AM

            agreed!

          • reply
            April 3, 2013 9:57 AM

            I haven't played rage but I haven't been interested in an id game since Quake 2. I don't think they've done anything interesting to stand out since.

          • reply
            April 3, 2013 10:53 AM

            You know its funny, but I did play Quake 4 and it was ok, but I never felt it was a good game. Just mediocre I thought.

            • reply
              April 3, 2013 1:20 PM

              It was better than Doom 3 (and looked and ran better) and that's the really sad part.

              • reply
                April 3, 2013 3:26 PM

                Yeah, the burned in ambient lighting really helped render speed. I felt like it was an okay game though. It had moments that really shined, but not enough.

                At least when Raven doesn't hit a home run, it's still a pretty good game, not many studios can say the same. For the record, I quite liked Singularity, it was mechanically derivative, but it felt good.

                Never got to try their Wolfenstein, waited for a sale that never came. Their Jedi Knight games were pretty fantastic though, and if you played Heritic 2, you can see the evolution of the staff to the light saber.

    • reply
      April 3, 2013 9:12 AM

      Call of Doom sounds gross. Glad they cancelled the shit out of that.

      • reply
        April 3, 2013 9:22 AM

        yeah, however I'd play the shit out of Quake Of Duty.

        • reply
          April 3, 2013 10:00 AM

          interesting

        • reply
          April 3, 2013 1:24 PM

          Quake2 remade today in a capable engine for cinematics and on rails interruptions?

      • reply
        April 3, 2013 9:29 AM

        But the gameplay in Rage and Doom 3 was incredibly dull and repetitive, so much so I gave up half way through. Between the Rage/Doom 3 and Call of Doom I'd much rather have the later.

        They only way they'll make Doom 4 any good is to give it Quakeworld speed and movement control. I doubt that'll happen because Id have tended more towards dumbing down the movement control and reducing the speed to a snails pace. I suspect Doom 4 will be another slow and repetitive pile of crap, assuming Bethesda doesn't cut their losses and shut Id down entirely before the game is released.

      • reply
        April 3, 2013 9:41 AM

        You ain't kiddin. I'd have been perma'd here for sure if that would have happened.

    • reply
      April 3, 2013 9:15 AM

      You know what? Id need Romero back.

      • reply
        April 3, 2013 9:21 AM

        Their egos will never let it happen but I think it would be amazing if it did.

        • reply
          April 3, 2013 9:31 AM

          Not sure about Carmack, but Romero seems to have mellowed in the past 5 or so years.

      • reply
        April 3, 2013 9:41 AM

        that is what I have been saying! Dave-A secretly agrees too.

        • reply
          April 3, 2013 5:09 PM

          What was the last game that JR made that you loved?

          • reply
            April 3, 2013 6:13 PM

            Quake, he's not had much luck by himself. That's why he needs to hook back up with Romero Davy!!!!!11

    • reply
      April 3, 2013 9:19 AM

      If they screwed it up so bad that it was more like Call of Duty than Doom, I'm glad they scrapped it.

    • reply
      April 3, 2013 9:24 AM

      anyone else not have faith in iD to deliver? They haven't made a good game in like a decade to be honest.

      • reply
        April 3, 2013 9:28 AM

        I liked Doom 3.

        • reply
          April 4, 2013 1:19 PM

          Which was 2004, rather close to that "decade" marker.

      • reply
        April 3, 2013 9:30 AM

        I enjoyed Doom 3 and Rage immensely. I played through Doom3 again recently (not BFG) and used more of a classic DOOM, run and gun, style as opposed to being scared of every dark corner. Great gaming...

        • reply
          April 3, 2013 9:33 AM

          ^^^This. You guys are jaded and don't like fun.

        • reply
          April 3, 2013 9:40 AM

          Doom 3 was ok, IMO. Rage was mehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh for like 50% of the game.

      • reply
        April 3, 2013 9:37 AM

        I give zero fucks about iD these days.

      • reply
        April 3, 2013 9:52 AM

        I have faith it'll be a competent product, but not a great/landmark one. I didn't HATE Rage or Doom 3, but they're not OMGWOW products like Doom and Quake were, and they're not establishing and cultivating online gaming like Quake 3 did.
        Their peak has been long over, but they still make completely playable games.

        • reply
          April 3, 2013 9:58 AM

          I still compare them to an aging rock star still making albums. Only die hard fans still buy new Rush records, and they're not necessarily BAD, but they're almost never going to achieve the greatness they did with 2112 or Moving Pictures, and it's unfair to expect them to.

      • reply
        April 3, 2013 9:53 AM

        I agree, I've bought all of id's games but I have no faith id can pull off D4. It's sad because id games are the games I've played the longest....

      • reply
        April 3, 2013 10:38 AM

        I'm done with id. Doom 3 and Rage sucked.

      • reply
        April 3, 2013 10:44 AM

        Exactly.

      • reply
        April 3, 2013 11:03 AM

        they just don't have the right combination of people. John Carmack is obsessed with technology and really claim to care what happens to the game, and their gameplay guys are too cinematic/overthinking shit for what they could be capitalizing on.

      • reply
        April 3, 2013 11:09 AM

        Yep.

      • reply
        April 3, 2013 11:48 AM

        I really didn't like Rage and I think Doom 4 will just be Rage 2.

      • reply
        April 3, 2013 1:23 PM

        I really liked Rage save the ending but I don't like Doom 3. I gave it another chance with the BFG edition but it's just too damn bland. Rage has some great gun fights and weapons/ammo unlike Doom 3 and I even enjoyed the racing.

      • reply
        April 3, 2013 1:53 PM

        I enjoyed Doom 3. It was well polished and well executed. It wasn't hordes of enemies, but it did its own thing pretty well.

        Still meaning to finish Rage. Very pretty, but it was the wrong game for the wrong time. I'd already spent hundreds of hours in the Fallouts and other post-apoc wastelands and was burnt out on the Road Warrior thing. Couldn't have told you if it was a good or not at that point. Also, I hate driving games.

        • reply
          April 3, 2013 9:22 PM

          I finished Rage, and yet I feel like I didn't really finish it... that's one way to describe my biggest problem with the game.

      • reply
        April 3, 2013 4:30 PM

        After Rage, nope.

      • reply
        April 3, 2013 9:20 PM

        Doom 3 rocked... but yeah, that was like a decade ago now, huh. Rage was very good in some ways, but very disappointing in others.

      • reply
        April 4, 2013 12:10 AM

        Doom 3 was good. There were lots of good parts of Rage, but it didn't come together. Rage still had great gunplay and some incredible animations when shooting enemies.

    • reply
      April 3, 2013 9:44 AM

      Call of DooM would be awesome if it meant killing zombie Nazi's and demonic Russians on the battlefields of Mars and Hell.

      We cannot afford grenades, here, throw this potato bleached skull

    • reply
      April 3, 2013 9:44 AM

      That's concerning...

    • reply
      April 3, 2013 9:44 AM

      Carmack: "Doom is about demon's and shotgun's"

      Carmack, I thought you were lost, but turns out you still know wtf. and need Romero at your side.

      • reply
        April 3, 2013 9:46 AM

        screwed the apostrophe again there dangit.

      • reply
        April 3, 2013 10:15 AM

        Carmack has always got it, but removed himself from any type of game design discussion after Quake 3.

        Willits is the guy I think has no idea what he's doing. He needs to go back to making multiplayer layouts while Carmack, Cloud or some new guy take over steering the ship creatively.

        • reply
          April 3, 2013 10:19 AM

          Last I heard, Willits is now the studio manager, which IMO is a better role for him than being a producer.

        • reply
          April 3, 2013 10:23 AM

          Didn't Cloud say that Doom 4 was his baby at one of the last few QuakeCons?

          • reply
            April 3, 2013 11:01 AM

            I hope so; his creativity and artistic abilities are pretty fucking amazing, as is evidenced in the art and content of id's past several games.

        • reply
          April 3, 2013 11:10 AM

          and it's probably unfair that I pretty much mentally put him at the helm. I just didn't think he'd abide this sort of mediocrity over the years. I feel like he's become somewhat jaded :(

      • reply
        April 3, 2013 10:54 AM

        its funny because lots of other people see that as damning phrase, showing how hes out of touch. its polarizing i suppose.

        • reply
          April 3, 2013 11:11 AM

          I see it more as a question of why change something that works and works well? Look at Duke Forever.

    • reply
      April 3, 2013 9:45 AM

      Personally I've lost all faith in id Software, they have seemed more interested in creating new technologies rather than good games. After the disappointment of RAGE I don't expect to bother with D4 at all. What made id games great was the atmosphere, the high speed gameplay that was easy to learn but hard to master and a strong multiplayer component. I just don't see them being able to pull off that simple formula.


      • reply
        April 3, 2013 9:58 AM

        Newsflash, they've been this way since Quake.

    • reply
      April 3, 2013 10:10 AM

      I'm about as big an id fan boy as there is left these days, as I enjoyed Rage and Doom 3 quite a bit, but Call of Doom kind of makes me wanna vomit.

      It's especially disappointing to here after Carmack said years ago at Quakecon that the Doom 4 would be more like Doom 1 and 2 than 3.

      While I enjoyed Rage, I don't think Willits is some amazing game designer or anything, or anyone else that I know of that's left at the studio. Carmack was most involved in design during Quake 3, which is my favorite game of all time, and his quote about demons and shotguns makes me feel like he needs to get more involved in design with this as well.

      id keeps trying to push story and design when it's not their strength and doesn't seem like it ever will be. I could make a pretty good argument that story in shooters is pretty awful across the board although you obviously have your exceptions here and there, but there's still the problem of focusing so much on story when you're mass murdering people/aliens/whatever.

      Carmack hinted at wanting to do a Quake 1 style remake or reboot and I think that's what they'd be best at. The shooting aspect of their games is still just as good if not better than anyone elses. They felt forced to expand to a big team to compete with other modern big budget shooters, bu I think there's a market out there now for smaller scale ~$15-20 multiplayer or fast paced single player shooters that id could thrive at again. Unfortunately, it's not gonna happen now that Bethesda owns them...

    • reply
      April 3, 2013 10:50 AM

      If I were to design Doom 4 check out the big ego on me I would do this :

      1. Hell on Earth Doom 3 was a reboot, why not Doom 4 as well?

      2. No NPCs Every person you run into is a human being (think DayZ style). No stores, no currency, just whatever arbitrary bartering method people want, up to and including a shot to your face for your rifle

      3. All the world's a stage LAN/Online multiplayer. You want PVE, LAN it up, you want PVP join some servers. Characters are stored in a central database but servers can be privately owned. Items and characters cannot move from server to server unless allowed by some DB standard (like version numbers or a check on mods)

      4. MODS! release with the ability to create your own items. If a server will host it you should be allowed to create and use it

      5. No milking the franchise! I know free to play is in, fuck all that. We're going traditional here, you buy the game and that's it. No adds, no pay $5 bucks for an extra cool looking item, no pay $5 bucks for an extra map. If the server will host it, its allowed

      sadly, I'm not a designer not any time soon anyway so my vision of Doom 4 shall only live in my head.

    • reply
      April 3, 2013 10:57 AM

      Doom 3 and Rage were some of the worst "AAA" games ive ever played, I have little hope for the future of both of these franchises.

      I really hope that they turn things around.

      • reply
        April 3, 2013 11:04 AM

        I loved Doom 3. Rage was a bit of a letdown, but really only the ending. It destroyed the rest of the game which wasn't actually that bad up to that point.

        • reply
          April 3, 2013 11:13 AM

          Doom3 was a technological masterpiece for its time. The gameplay left something to be desired for those of us that enjoyed Doom and Doom2.

          • reply
            April 3, 2013 1:22 PM

            I'd disagree, because I loved all 3 but the only one's i'd replay (after 8+ playthroughs), it's DooM3. The atmosphere still rocks and if you play like you don't want to die it's crazy fun.

            • reply
              April 3, 2013 1:44 PM

              sir, I do not die in Doom's frantic, infested environments. I am one with the map after a gazillion playthrough's and it's still fun, zen-like even.

          • reply
            April 3, 2013 9:25 PM

            The gameplay was different from 1 and 2, sure, but I still thought it was very good in its own right.

    • reply
      April 3, 2013 10:59 AM

      id is stuck in the 90s creatively. Can't go forward, can't go backward.

    • reply
      April 3, 2013 11:01 AM

      What is going on with ID software? I'm going to just say please please give me a good Doom 4!!! They really need to get their shit together too much time and money is being wasted and eventually it's going to close this studio down. (please no)

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      April 3, 2013 11:03 AM

      Don't want another doom game. Dead Space 1 and 2 filled that void for me. What I want is back to Lovecraftian horror Quake 1 reboot.

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      April 3, 2013 11:15 AM

      Really they don't need to do much more than use the absolute best state of the art engine, throw in heaps of realistic gore and atmosphere and make it scarier than Dead space. That would be a huge win in my books. Oh and don''t fk up the story. I've still got faith in you id!

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      April 3, 2013 11:15 AM

      I liked Doom3/Rage but Painkiller/Serious Sam felt more like the original Doom... I don't understand the concept is quite simple: HORDES of demons

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      April 3, 2013 11:27 AM

      When was the last time id produced a good game? Seriously. The people working there are clueless on what makes a good game. If there were a way to short id games, I would short the hell out of them.

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        April 3, 2013 12:38 PM

        Rage's guns were solid, some of the best IMHO. Engine quirks, pacing and a horrible ending unfortunately were too much for most to overcome. If they can take Rages gun mechanics and tie it to a updated doom environment, I think it would be fucking solid.

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        April 3, 2013 1:00 PM

        id has been a tech company for a long time. they're not a game company. carmack makes the engines and they release a game to demo the engine.

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          April 3, 2013 4:13 PM

          yup, sad but true...

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          April 3, 2013 8:46 PM

          Except no one besides id uses the damn bloody thing.

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      April 3, 2013 12:54 PM

      id hasn't made an exciting game since DOOM2

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        April 3, 2013 12:58 PM

        No, Quake was amazing, Q2 was high-energy awesomeness and Q3 is.... well Q3 is Q3 nuff said. Pretty much anything after that failed to meet expectations IMO

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      April 3, 2013 2:17 PM

      They will turn it into yet another uncharted clone but on mars

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      April 3, 2013 2:48 PM

      Meh, last ID game I actually had fun playing was Quake2, rest were junk... Doom 3 bad.. Quake3 ... bad

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      April 3, 2013 4:23 PM

      I'll say the same thing now I've been saying for years.

      iD makes great engines and I always look forward to what other studios do with them.

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        April 3, 2013 4:45 PM

        The real problem now, is that Rage isn't a great engine.

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        April 3, 2013 4:52 PM

        Q1 and Q2 were both amazing.

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        April 3, 2013 5:13 PM

        No one's done anything with them for years.

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        April 3, 2013 8:12 PM

        They haven't done a good engine since the Q3 engine...

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          April 3, 2013 9:30 PM

          they didnt even bother to market their engines when they were good, and now they dont even have the good aspect going for em

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            April 3, 2013 11:00 PM

            idTech3 had 14 games plus expansions that weren't based on id properties. But yeah, id, or at least Carmack had no interest in expanding the company to support engine licensees.

            That left Epic to dominate, and sadly allowed id's pipeline to remain, and even become more difficult to use, while the UnrealEngines became even easier to use. I imagine that continues to have impact on productivity.

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      April 3, 2013 5:13 PM

      I'd like to see another MP focused game from them. Basically an updated Q3A. No stupid unlocks or effort/time wasted on designing a SP campaign I'll never play. Just straight up DM/TDM/CTF.

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        April 3, 2013 6:17 PM

        but then again there is quakelive and look how nobody plays it.

        and its free!

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      April 3, 2013 6:19 PM

      Finally, a good decision.

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      April 3, 2013 6:20 PM

      IMO doom should be handled like an indie game.
      don't focus on it being a AAA title trying to compete with COD or BF series.

      ppl just don't care for that stuff anymore.
      we love that kind of game, but the console crowd will not buy into that,
      and as much as I hate to admit, thats where the money is.

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        April 3, 2013 7:19 PM

        One source described a meeting in which ZeniMax executives told Id leads that “Doom 4 can and should be as big as Skyrim,” as far as both sales and cultural impact.

        This is what's wrong with ZeniMax owning Id Software. Back in 2008, it wasn't such a bad thing, but ZeniMax apparently really really REALLY wanted Call of Doom.

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          April 3, 2013 8:14 PM

          Sounds more like they wanted Doomrim.

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          April 3, 2013 8:47 PM

          I have some hope that Zenimax is smarter than just wanting call of doom. Clearly Doom was a HUGE part of the reason for the acquisition, and I think it makes sense for them to be super-careful with it.

          But... I think the primary strength of Doom is speed, and that's difficult to reproduce on a multiplatform title. After playing a lot of Invasion, I've come to think of Doom not as a FPS, but as a first person shmup. I don't know if anyone at id feels this way, or if they just feel that game isn't really marketable nowadays.

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        April 3, 2013 8:38 PM

        Doom series sits in a weird place as its not a pure horror and its not a fps that really has much depth in the way of the story. Its kind of just a run and gun game that would throw scares at you periodically. This is something common in the games of the 1990's. The genres kind of have migrated away from that style and pretty is why games like Doom and Duke Nukem are falling flat on their faces.

        As far as horror games go the indie games have been breaking new ground with the genre. The modern fps troupes probably wouldn't work well. I think they kind of have to decide which path they want to go down as you can't really do both really well.

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        April 3, 2013 8:41 PM

        you mean like Serious Sam?

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          April 3, 2013 8:44 PM

          to me that was equal parts doom/duke. great combination.

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      April 4, 2013 1:19 AM

      It'll be interesting to see what Carmack might have to say at QuakeCon. IMO there was an exasperated undercurrent to his comments on the direction of the studio over the last couple of years.

      I've always enjoyed id's games, even Rage which was very unfairly maligned I thought, and it's disappointing to hear that after all this time the studio still can't get its act together with big teams. D4 is already looking like it'll take much longer than Rage did to ship, which is just mad.

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      April 4, 2013 1:29 AM

      the main problem is here that videogames at least for me seem to hit a complete dead end. the technology is not evolving in the ways that make games any better than just watching a movie.

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        April 4, 2013 1:31 AM

        its alsways seems to be such a huge ffort for me to try to get into any modern looking videogames. flash games stuff yeah maybe but not these huge blockbuster titles, they all seem to try to be better than reality and that sorts of creates a complete split in my head because its like a window behind a glass door trying to make you fool that its not a game

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          April 4, 2013 1:40 AM

          i would love to see how to work on these titles, having developed a small wolf3d mod myself, but breaking my head to create life like graphics is a completely dead end effort in my opinion. first off all it will lead to a path where games become simulations like arma, then they arent games anymore but programs that simulate reality, and if they are not like arma then they just feel awkward because you have this almost life like graphics inside a graphics engine that behaves like the first quake game, with primitive movement handling, physics, ai, etc.

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            April 4, 2013 1:45 AM

            btw check out my mod on lexaloffle bbs (creator of pretty nice game voxatron)
            the post is titled "weirdest wolf3d mod", also if you do get a wolf3d editor and just check out how cool it all looks (monster sprites and textures), very doomy stuff.

            http://www.lexaloffle.com/bbs/?tid=1354

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              April 4, 2013 2:17 AM

              actually looking at the bf4 trailer gave me a bit more hope, games should be much less linear, the linearity and the sense that you just have to go from point a to b, without actually getting into game so its all just about scores and completion rates, that shit really needs to get out the door.

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                April 4, 2013 5:02 AM

                and everyone wanders off in the wrong direction? there has to be a goal, a payoff for the player, thats the definition of a game.

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                  April 4, 2013 5:37 AM

                  nope the way i see it i can run through doom and have no clue what happened because i already learned every exit from the level, now if that exit randomly spawned somwhere hidden on the level i couldnt finish the game without at least applying some thought to it.

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      April 4, 2013 8:26 PM

      Ive been waiting for a Quake 5... doesn't seen like its gonna happen any time soon... :(

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        April 5, 2013 12:41 AM

        is it hard to get working at id? i live in a motherfucking russia and have to actually go to army before i get any papers so i could leave this shitty place (so basically i broke the law, they can even send me to jail for running away so to speak. totalitarism still in here it seems, i know it may sound stupid but i do kind of believe that q5 announcement was made because i send my little wolf3d mod to id 2 days before, i am very scared to go to america alone and my parents realy dont know how to help me they are busy raising my teenage sisters, i have no clue i would sure work at id if those guys want me, i am not a cry baby i am just a basement dweller at this point and have no clue how to deal with outside world if you know what i mean, if there was at least someone who cared enough for me, i would for sure work, heck i have done so much work for free so far i am about to have some real suicidal thoughts, not kidding i feel really left out on this whole thing. maybe i wanted to do something else but i mean i gotta start doing something its really bad atmosphere where i live atm, i rage all the time, i have no privacy. i basically live in khanty mansisk, in the hotel in the same room with my mother and she keeps nagging me like i am some hobo. i am really feeling left out by my parents, all they seem to care about is money not giving a shit that i spent whole freaking year doing this mod, its very serious effort for me as i really do believe i have very good knowledge about games and seeing how i am being treated like a hobo just because i dont have income is really really sad for me and makes me really rage.

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      April 6, 2013 12:26 AM

      I loved the Doom and Quake series of games, back in the day.

      But sadly, its success back then is its very undoing now. The market's completely saturated (and has been for over a decade) with hundreds of other studio's trying to bring their own FPS to the market. The result is that most people are getting very bored of the genre (unless you count the CoD kiddie brigade, which is not the Doom demographic).

      No matter what Doom 4 ends up as, it's likely it will never achieve the same status or feeling that it did back in its glory days, simply because we've already been there and done it - a hundred times.

      I wish them luck though - Doom was always the daddy of FPS and is more deserving of success than many of today's 'rinse and repeat' shooter crap-fests.

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        April 6, 2013 2:33 AM

        rage is actually pretty awesome (my favorite id game to this point, but all theyr games are really awesome) now the downside came from no plausible multiplayer, multiplayer was a gimmick like in doom 3. i have no clue, those guys spend like 7 years on a game and it comes out without multiplayer. second thing is rage really didnt evolve from doom3 with gameplay mechanics. there were open spaces but it was really just fun walking around exploring the world, there should have been more rpg elements and more stuff like in stalker or skyrim game where the gameworld felt independent from the player and not just a static background, now that can be attributed to 60hz goal and stuff, i think major mistake was trying to make this huge game with a much smaller team. to me the only successful tripple aaa game is battlefield series, there probably are huge teams but thats beside the point, people just shouldn't overwork themselves, either scale back the game or hire more people. yes i think rage is awesome but its still also feels a bit awkward with great graphics but unevolved gameplay mechanics, i get the point when it was doom 3 review, same thing here. those rpg elements really just felt tucked on, there wasnt a genuine new feature that brought something new to fps genre. but at the end of caourse rage wasnt bad att all , i bought it after all, the first id game i actually bought and not being ashamed to have it on steam, i was a bit turned off by satanic stuff in doom3 maybe thats why i still didnt buy it.

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      April 7, 2013 9:05 AM

      id games are not exciting enough. Nor Bethesda's, for that matter.

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        April 9, 2013 12:18 AM

        Speak for yourself dramaqueen. :)

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      April 8, 2013 10:19 AM

      Id and Doom team needs to take a long hard look at Dark Souls and how they did their online interaction...
      They made a single player game with all the elements of suspense that doom had but added a online function that didn't ruin the single player experience..
      Dark Souls did everything Id said was supposed to do with an online single player game.
      Anyway I hope they get their shit together and pull a great game out of their ass to redeem themselves .
      They can make a great game if they get inspired.