'Windows 8 is kind of a catastrophe,' Valve boss says

Valve head Gabe Newell is not a fan of Windows 8. "I think that Windows 8 is kind of a catastrophe for everybody in the PC space."

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Valve head Gabe Newell is not a fan of Windows 8. "I think that Windows 8 is kind of a catastrophe for everybody in the PC space," he said rather bluntly. "If that's true, it's going to be a good idea to have alternatives to hedge against that eventuality."

What is the cause for Newell's vitriol against Microsoft's next OS? He sees a movement away from open platforms to a closed one. Perhaps there's other reasons as well: Windows 8 brings about features like the built-in Windows Store app marketplace and Xbox Live integration--both which threaten Steam's stronghold in the PC gaming scene.

Newell argues that open platforms are important for innovation to thrive. "Valve wouldn't exist if it weren't for the PC," he said at Casual Connect (via VentureBeat). "Id Software, Epic, Zynga, Facebook, and Google wouldn't have existed without the openness of the platform."

With both Apple and Microsoft increasingly focused on closed app store-based operating systems, Valve's increasing investment in Linux starts to make sense. The company recently launched Left 4 Dead 2 on the OS, and has bigger plans for its future. "We have to start finding ways that we can continue to make sure there are open platforms. So that involves a couple of different things. One, we're trying to make sure that Linux thrives."

"Our perception is that one of the big problems holding Linux back is the absence of games. I think that a lot of people--in their thinking about platforms--don't realize how critical games are as a consumer driver of purchases and usage," Newell said. "So we're going to continue working with the Linux distribution guys, shipping Steam, shipping our games, and making it as easy as possible for anybody who's engaged with us--putting their games on Steam and getting those running on Linux, as well."

From The Chatty

  • reply
    July 25, 2012 1:15 PM

    Andrew Yoon posted a new article, 'Windows 8 is kind of a catastrophe,' Valve boss says.

    Valve head Gabe Newell is not a fan of Windows 8. "I think that Windows 8 is kind of a catastrophe for everybody in the PC space."

    • reply
      July 25, 2012 1:21 PM

      Kudos to Gabe for standing up for an open platform, in a time of app store fads. Yes, Steam is closed, but it's one of the most inviting and versatile closed platforms.

      More thoughts in a few hours.

      • reply
        July 25, 2012 1:29 PM

        lol, you acknowledge the hypocrisy right there and still give him kudos

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          July 25, 2012 1:40 PM

          That's our archvile. As long as Gaben is fighting "the man" it's all good.

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          July 25, 2012 6:50 PM

          Are you knocking steam or simply pointing out his hypocrisy?

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            July 25, 2012 6:56 PM

            I'm laughing at "kudos to Gabe for standing up for open platforms even though he's railing against a closed platform that looks to be competing with his closed platform"

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              July 26, 2012 12:59 AM

              Except that Steam is more open and offers developers and customers better service than the Windows 8 app store. Also Steam isn't a forced part of an OS and Valve does not have a long history of bullying other software products.

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          July 26, 2012 5:23 AM

          Yeah there is hypocrisy but as long as Steam processes my credit card, I'm ok with it being close sourced.

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        July 25, 2012 1:41 PM

        "One of the most inviting". Except all those games that don't get in and aren't even provided with reasons why.

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          July 25, 2012 2:55 PM

          But they just started steam greenlight, I assume that'd fix everything except the things that are being kept out by contracts with Origin/GFWL

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          July 25, 2012 10:49 PM

          the fact that they created an entire user platform to address this criticism makes your point moot

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        July 25, 2012 3:00 PM

        I'm at a crossroads with "X as a service", mostly because I hate being tied down. I'm about four steps away from writing off iTunes and OS X, because about the only reason I use OS X anymore is for iTunes, and iTunes' advantages for my uses are waning down to iOS' interface for playback (which has gotten progressively worse since iOS 4).

        Now, Microsoft is pushing Windows 8, with the Start Screen trapping things into full-screen WinRT apps that are purchased from the Microsoft Store with a Microsoft Account. This is where Microsoft wants most future consumer programs to be sold and distributed, not through Win32 / Win64. Win32 / Win64 are still THERE, but for how long? The requirement of a Microsoft Account is another demand that I'm unwilling to meet. "It's free! All you need to do is give them your email address and create a login!" Yeah, that's too high a price for me. I only create logins for services and vendors who I'm truly going to use in the next few years. I got sick of handing out email addresses, or having to create stub honeypot email addresses, or having to manage tons of logins with Keepass.

        As for the future of open computer program development without having to sign up for some developer network, it's at risk. Gabe sees this too, as it's putting at risk the ability for a company to create a service of their own. Steam on PS3 only got done because of deals with Sony, and I'm guessing it still requires a PSN account. Remember back when Microsoft was under anti-trust scrutiny after the Netscape vs. Internet Explorer days? Maybe those days are "quaint" by today's standards, but there should be OSes that don't trap in people; that's basically whittling down to Linux and other hobbyist OSes like NetBSD.

        Anyway, these are thoughts, about to get picked apart by the Windows 8 / XBLA fanboys.

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          July 25, 2012 3:20 PM

          Welcome to the world of closed systems. Nothing to do with a specific platform and of course you need a PSN account to use Steam on the PS3. Closed systems are becoming more, not less common so you'll have a very limited choice if you want to avoid all of them.

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            July 25, 2012 4:48 PM

            Taking that too far is irresponsible; imagine if Notepad required a Microsoft Account. Because so many things are getting trapped into closed accounts, I'm stuck with either open alternatives, or exportable alternatives (e.g.: iTunes Plus .m4a format music tracks can be exported to other systems without DRM restrictions).

            You can take pride in closed systems all you want, but when you start complaining about PSN going down, Gawker getting hacked, or EA killing off Rock Band iOS (all three of these have happened, by the way), don't forget that by subscribing to these services, you set yourself up for inconvenience when things go wrong.

            I remember the time when a number of Windows Server 2003 systems affected by KB912354 went into "I'm not activated" lockdown mode because of a memory leak. It led to an unadministerable system that had to be power-cycled. Thanks, Microsoft.

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              July 25, 2012 4:56 PM

              This is your standard technique for criticizing a system. "Remember that time something went wrong? That's why this entire system is obviously bad." Find me a system where that criticism doesn't apply. And of course you can easily ignore all the advantages of these new systems that many people want/enjoy on account of your hatred for connectivity in general, let alone ones that require sign in (want to apply your standard criticism technique to fully anonymous online systems?)

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                July 25, 2012 5:41 PM

                I think he just doesn't want forced into them and is afrid he will be.

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                July 25, 2012 8:24 PM

                His only concern is painting a bad picture of big companies, mostly Microsoft, so he cherry picks all the bad stories he can.

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        July 25, 2012 8:51 PM

        You don't even know what the App Store is. The only thing closed about it is your mind. It's open and free. Desktop apps can be listed for free. HOLY SHIT FREE ADVERTISING AND A LINK TO YOUR FUCKING WEBSITE FROM A CENTRALIZED LOCATION INSIDE THE OS. WIN WIN. The only thing that isn't free is the listing of Metro, Mobile, Tablet apps which is just like any other fucking store on the web including steam. Microsoft takes a % just like Valve takes a percent of everything listed and they also don't allow you to put just anything.

        So really, go back to the holiday inn you crawled in from.

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          July 25, 2012 10:48 PM

          There are really big problems with WinRT that have nothing to do with the app store. Gabe is right.

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            July 25, 2012 11:33 PM

            What's wrong? Super sad because the first iteration of a new blazing fast windows API isn't as full featured as the ancient win32?

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              July 26, 2012 12:34 AM

              The sandbox model is a big problem for anyone who uses steam, NVAPI and many other third party DLLs.

    • reply
      July 25, 2012 1:28 PM

      didn't he run his mouth about how terrible it was to program for the PS3 and then he shows up in Sony's E3 conference talking about how awesome it is?

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        July 25, 2012 1:52 PM

        He talked about how awesome the platform's openness was, but I don't know if he ever turned around and said it was a dream to program on.

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        July 25, 2012 2:13 PM

        He said he loves the system but their coding language sucks.

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          July 25, 2012 2:13 PM

          their coding language is C++, same as everyone else

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            July 25, 2012 2:31 PM

            Sorry, meant programming for it.

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              July 25, 2012 3:19 PM

              Programming for Cell is what sucked about PS3, because of the highly parallel CPU architecture, which was drastically different than the 360.

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                July 25, 2012 3:39 PM

                What sucked was not the Cell architecture. It was the fact that their initial compiler was crappy and generated poorly optimized code, their debugger was (and still is) hell to use, and their SDK is mostly documented in mechanically-translated English (from Japanese source).

                Every major feature that they wanted games to use was half-assed at launch, or didn't launch with the PS3 at all. For example, trophies: they came out late, the API is terrible, and you basically have to write multithreaded code just to keep your app from freezing on startup while the trophy initialization function does god-knows-what for 30 seconds (and don't try to do any hard disk I/O during that time or it'll take two minutes instead). Also, loading the SDK support for Trophies uses up system RAM that would otherwise go to your application.

                Sometimes their SDK null-terminates its output strings. Sometimes it doesn't. We're talking basic programming fundamentals. Programming for the PS3 is worse than correcting homework assignments for a grad-level CS course, and I used to think that was the worst thing ever.

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                  July 25, 2012 3:46 PM

                  Interesting; I've witnessed the framerate drop on a trophy trigger. I was in GT5 doing a timed practice run on Tsukuba Circuit, when the framerate suddenly cut down and sped up intermittently. "What the..." *BLING* Human Stopwatch . XMB is sleek at some things, but looks like a raw first-time effort at others.

                  I'm also kinda shocked that Sony, an international company, didn't get decent Japanese translators on their SDK documents. From your account, I'm guessing that there are entire anime series that have been translated better than the Sony SDK; that's sad.

                  Not that Microsoft doesn't have problems; the entire Bombcast crew is badmouthing Metro Dashboard about once every month. Both 360 Dashboard and PS3 XMB are first-generation efforts

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                    July 25, 2012 3:47 PM

                    the Bombcast guys also repeatedly complain about slowness that's obviously related to the fact that their Xbox's have 250gb drives filled to the brim with games, unlike 99% of owners

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                      July 25, 2012 3:56 PM

                      I think I remember Brad saying "I have 6 GB free", or something around the range of 6 GB. Why isn't that enough cache space for Metro Dashboard to pre-stage graphical assets? Fragmentation?

                      My 360 slim arcade's running 2.0.13599, and it has 343 MB free. Snappy as hell, but then again, it has nothing to download, because it has no network connection. Caching stuff has been an ever-growing tactic for OS and program designers, but it seems like a strategy taken by programmers who think they have tons of space to work with. Then, they see a real-world use case where things are stalling, and they notice the heavy space usage. "But why would you ever do that?"

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                        July 25, 2012 4:08 PM

                        "just cache it!" so simple. Indeed, 6gb sounds like enough space, especially in the context of your Arcade having much less free. So the logical answer is the problem is something else and not that simple. Caching is a fundamental technique in computing, nothing about the current state of storage has changed that. Here's a much more rational explanation than "lol Xbox devs u so dumb and never do real world stress testing": it doesn't make a lot of sense to expend significant effort optimizing performance for the < 1% case.

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                          July 25, 2012 4:53 PM

                          Tell that to the Microsoft support reps that I have locked into a six-months-long critical case.

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                            July 25, 2012 5:07 PM

                            Anyway, as you can see, the 360 Metro Dashboard UI sluggishness issue is not a <1% problem; I'm guessing it's about a 10% problem, but it's also being talked about among enthusiasts, in gaming press, in podcasts, and among many gamers. Some people are saying they'd prefer XMB (I personally do, since XMB has faster transitions, and a spatially consistent UI layout, which rewards muscle memory).

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                      July 25, 2012 4:56 PM

                      I have a 20GB drive and it's pretty much unusable. I've stopped using my 360 because of it.

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                        July 25, 2012 5:02 PM

                        sounds like there might be something else wrong with your Xbox then. Clearly there would not be a dash update that made the average console so slow as to be "unusable". If you have another friend with a 360 it might be worth swapping the hard drives to see what happens.

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                    July 25, 2012 3:59 PM

                    Sony is institutionally broken. Not only are they pretty rough on their first time at bat, they're not getting better fast enough. The last PS3 title I shipped was a downloadable game that had a Trial version that you could upgrade to Full through an in-app purchase, or in the store, or through the dashboard. But you couldn't actually do the in the dashboard upgrade in Europe, because Sony Europe had a different testing procedure than Sony America, and the two were *incompatible* (we could only ever have the right purchase flow for one or the other) and Europe kept threatening to fail us for certification... *unless we removed the feature, which worked, and then they would pass us*. So we removed it from the Europe build.

                    We found out later that, as of the time of our release, nobody had ever successfully implemented the dashboard upgrade (triangle on a demo game, look for Purchase option).

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                    July 25, 2012 9:18 PM

                    I don't blame Bombcast. Metro sucks for none touch enabled devices. It's fine for a phone or tablet, but makes no since with a controller or mouse.

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                  July 25, 2012 3:57 PM

                  ^^^ This. Sony tools have always sucked at first and gotten better over time. Microsoft always seemed to have good dev tools out of the gate.

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          July 25, 2012 3:34 PM

          If it is ANYTHING like playstation mobile he is FUCKING right. FUCK that shit SDK fuck it hard!

    • reply
      July 25, 2012 1:38 PM

      got to get that cash

    • reply
      July 25, 2012 1:44 PM

      Better hurry up and release HL3 before the landscape changes, right? Right guys?

    • reply
      July 25, 2012 1:46 PM

      What does he mean it's a closed platform? You'll still be able to run anything you want including steam, correct?

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        July 25, 2012 1:48 PM

        the desktop is the same as ever but the new stuff is closed off, those applications need to go through the windows store. Although microsoft does not take a cut from in app purchases so i guess a steam metro client would be possible somehow.

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        July 25, 2012 1:48 PM

        Of course. I think he's just worried that the Windows Store competes with Steam. Which is bad for him.

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          July 25, 2012 1:55 PM

          LOL

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          July 25, 2012 2:08 PM

          I highly doubt it. Windows Live Marketplace is already out there on the internet and has a client you can download, just like steam. Its not popular.

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            July 25, 2012 3:14 PM

            It's not integrated with the OS like the Windows Store is. Nor is it the sole delivery method for Metro-style apps like the Windows Store is. Completely different beasts.

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              July 25, 2012 4:19 PM

              So because windows 8 will have the store app forced on your computer it will suddenly become good? yeah right. Its not going to change a thing about games for windows live being extremely unpopular among PC gamers.

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                July 25, 2012 10:50 PM

                It might suddenly become popular. See also: Internet Explorer 6.

                Do people seriously have memories that are this short?

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          July 25, 2012 2:10 PM

          Just like the monster that is GFWL.

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          July 25, 2012 10:52 PM

          Hasn't Valve proven time and time again that they aren't that kind of evil company?

    • reply
      July 25, 2012 1:56 PM

      And everyone is wondering why they are putting steam on Linux...

      • reply
        July 25, 2012 3:02 PM

        I can see why I just don't see that many developers following suit. Looks to be a lot more grunt work for an even smaller portion of the pie.

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          July 25, 2012 4:59 PM

          It makes me more likely to pick a game up if it's on Steam Play. If I can stay in linux longer I'm all for it. Right now I jump between games and productivity too much to be in linux all the time.

    • reply
      July 25, 2012 1:59 PM

      I like Gabe but this is a little early to say this stuff IMO. But hey he makes the big bucks...

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        July 25, 2012 2:03 PM

        How do you run directx apps on linux?

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          July 25, 2012 2:26 PM

          you can and you can't, officially it's not possible but there's a workaround using WINE

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          July 25, 2012 2:36 PM

          you port them to OpenGL :)

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            July 25, 2012 3:02 PM

            Yup. Remember back when OpenGL was preferred over D3D? That changed over the past decade, due to the OpenGL ARB becoming crusty and CAD-centric, and Microsoft pumping up DirectX marketing along with the XBox program. Nowadays, the only games in OpenGL are those getting a port to OS X or Linux.

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            July 25, 2012 8:25 PM

            LOL, yeah that's going to happen.

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        July 25, 2012 2:07 PM

        He was one of the most outspoken anti Vista people too. And their games still don't support DX10/11 which is crap.

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        July 25, 2012 3:26 PM

        i heard and saw only bad things ... i dont expect all those tweaks to be easily doable to make it work, there is a great chance i wont use it after a test ... but its that bad i may not even have to test it.

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      July 25, 2012 2:14 PM

      I really like Value they are a great shop etc and been awesome for PC gaming, but this seem a little crazy unless I am missing something?

      So why would Steam not work on Windows 8, seems to me they don't like the competition that the new MS stores will bring(must be good if they are this concerned).

      Unless Steam can not run on Windows 8 and you can no longer make C++ and C# apps for Windows 8 then I really don't see what the big deal is and why the concern.

      Any one want to explain it to me?

      Maybe Steam has to be Win8 Certified like XBLA? I doubt that if MS no longer lets any C++ and C# program run on windows they would basically destroy them selves that's never going to happen. There is no way Win8 is that locked down, I am going to try it on the weekend and see?

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        July 25, 2012 2:28 PM

        the traditional desktop works just fine in Win8. You can use C# and C++ to write Metro apps or traditional Windows apps, both of which can be listed in the Win8 app store. Steam works just fine on Win8 today.

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          July 25, 2012 2:33 PM

          Ahhhh that is what I thought so tell what the hell is the beef? What gives? Sounds like everything is the same except that MS is trying out a store app, so what that's cool.

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            July 25, 2012 2:38 PM

            the new applications for the new environment can only be sold through the windows store like iOS and that seems to be the future of windows. The desktop will be around for a long time though.

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              July 25, 2012 6:00 PM

              So Metro is locked down, so you just need your application to get approved? If that is the case then Metro aka the MS Store is freaking Steam I bet a lot of minds are blown at this point.

              I still that's cool and really has huge potential I really can only see Valve hating on this for it is a built in Steam in all of the MS Win 8's but MS's.

              Man MS might have done something really rad, if I have this all clear.

              Regardless Steam will still work so no really has any reason to freak out. Its just a new focal point to highlight MS certified application that can easily be bought on Win 8 with a click of a button. To me the more I think of it its actually MASSIVE move by MS in a very positive way.

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                July 25, 2012 6:03 PM

                Also btw Steam is totally a closed platform, you game has to be certified they need a sample of the application they have a separate SDK to use it blah blah blah I really see no difference at all.

                No one can just put a game on Steam it is not open platform what so ever.

                Here look at this http://www.steampowered.com/steamworks/FAQ.php I looked and want to be on their platform its not a sure thing at all to get on.

          • reply
            July 25, 2012 3:09 PM

            I think its more that WIN8 is an indication of MS' direction towards a more walled garden approach, and as a huge fan of completely open platforms Gabe thinks that direction is a miss step.

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              July 25, 2012 3:19 PM

              Microsoft is damned if they do and damned if they don't.

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                July 25, 2012 3:26 PM

                More specifically, Microsoft has a lot of corporate customers who are heavily using legacy Win32 / Win64 applications, and aren't interested in the least in WinRT or the Windows Store. If Windows 8 makes enough of those customers mad enough to flee to other OSes and office productivity suites, Microsoft stands to lose a lot of revenue.

                Right now, the water cooler talk is about how Microsoft's too busy chasing the iPad to consider making truly valuable improvements in Windows 7 and Windows Server 2008.

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                  July 25, 2012 3:29 PM

                  More specifically, Microsoft has a lot of corporate customers who are heavily using legacy Win32 / Win64 applications, and aren't interested in the least in WinRT or the Windows Store.

                  So why do they desire a private app store on mobile but not on PCs?

                  Right now, the water cooler talk is about how Microsoft's too busy chasing the iPad to consider making truly valuable improvements in Windows 7 and Windows Server 2008.

                  *eye roll*

                  Honestly try to describe Windows 7 improvements you think need to be made for the average user. Let's see how they match up with Win 8's features.

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                    July 25, 2012 5:00 PM

                    My primary gripe with 7: the MMC snap-ins are too damn slow after being re-coded to .NET. The native code versions in XP and prior were much faster to load, especially on stressed systems with heavy memory usage. That's the loudest gripe right now; the others are things that are buried in background noise, that I can't think of right now; that's pretty good.

                    IIS 7 also still has the broken certificate completion dialog that says "Hey, I couldn't find that common name; could you try again?", when in fact the certificate request did successfully get processed. This is an acknowledged bug, documented among many CAs. Still no fix in 2008 R2.

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                      July 25, 2012 5:04 PM

                      Windows 7. Average user.

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                        July 25, 2012 5:16 PM

                        An average user will end up triggering an MMC to load at some point in the lifetime of the 7 install. Make that load faster.

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            July 25, 2012 5:47 PM

            as he said: "Hedging his bets"

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        July 25, 2012 3:26 PM

        I think they're hedging a bet on Linux because there will be a linux powered Steambox in your living room someday.

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          July 25, 2012 3:46 PM

          Ding ding ding, winner!

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          July 25, 2012 9:32 PM

          Which I will never buy because I have a PC that can be upgraded. I don't need some closed platform steam box.

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        July 25, 2012 10:52 PM

        You are missing something: WinRT. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Runtime#Technology

        The sandbox is a huge problem.

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      July 25, 2012 2:17 PM

      I would not be surprised if someone in Win 8 development looked at Steam and said, "Hey, look at how successful a one-stop-shop application delivery platform can be, even with something as far flung as PC games. What if we did that?"

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        July 25, 2012 2:32 PM

        I really hope they do, even go as far to totally copy it exactly. That would be awesome the easier ways there are of getting PC game to us the better, plus it will bring competition that is a very good thing.

        Maybe Live on the PC will be very good and totally new and work just like Steam.

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          July 25, 2012 2:37 PM

          Hahaha "Maybe Live on the PC will be very good and totally new and work just like Steam." - Valcan_s

          you so silly Valcan_s

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            July 25, 2012 2:40 PM

            Yes. Given the current state of GFWL I wouldn't hold my breath, valcan. :)

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              July 25, 2012 5:50 PM

              I know your right, but it be so awesome. If it where not for the Xbox and the 360 maybe MS would of done a Steam and been epic and pushed PC gaming. :( so depressing they hold all the chips yet they don't really do anything in that direction.

              On the other hand I worship them for VS, DX, C# and there OS's of course so I really can not hate on them, but they could really do it all :(

              Just like my dream of a proper Game OS from them I bet that is never going to happen(a variant of windows).

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        July 25, 2012 2:39 PM

        most people aren't aware of it but it's not like MS didn't think of these things before, the execution just wasn't there http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Marketplace

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        July 25, 2012 3:05 PM

        Why hasn't Valve already done this? Why can't I buy non-game apps on Steam?

    • reply
      July 25, 2012 3:18 PM

      Even if Win8 takes a massive dump, I can't see droves of people switching over to Linux just because Valve supports them. After you get done playing a few Source games... then what?

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        July 25, 2012 3:23 PM

        You gotta start somewhere, you know? Their longterm goal is probably to make Linux game development as easy as Windows game development.

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          July 25, 2012 3:53 PM

          Right. It's not about getting customers to switch to Linux now, it's about using their weight to make Linux gaming better and better over time (driver support, etc).

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          July 25, 2012 4:13 PM

          Yes, millions of happy Windows 7 users refusing to migtrate to Windows 8, and swithcing to, Linux? Lol.

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            July 25, 2012 5:57 PM

            Thats what i was thinking too.
            Its just Win 7 > any linux variation out there, so even if windows 8 sucks people will stay in windows, just like it happened when windows ME was released, very few installed it but even fewer left the windows OS.
            I know Linux has evolved quite a bit since then, but windows has too.

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            July 26, 2012 12:20 AM

            +1 reading comprehension.

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        July 25, 2012 4:23 PM

        I'd do as I did for WinXP... tried Vista dual boot and never used it after a few tries... so I uninstalled it (Vista).


        I have had Ubuntu installed on my PC for ages and use it once in a while mostly for Internet use since there's no game right now for me on it. Now that Steam is starting to support it, I'll install it when there's a game I want and if more and more games become available for Linux, and I find myself booting more often in Ubuntu until I realize that it's been weeks since I booted into Win7, then I'll consider myself switched to Linux.


        I'll probably keep 7 for a good while still, but I CAN do everything else on Linux except playing the games I want to play on it. (Haven't tried WINE yet since I never needed it (yet))

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        July 25, 2012 5:03 PM

        Jump on facebook and google and everything else that most people need except for itunes which will never happen.

        Linux desktop isn't as terrible as it used to be.

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          July 25, 2012 8:31 PM

          Other than some occasional problems with Flash I haven't had any (non-game related) issues with Ubuntu. What I'm really wondering is where SDL may be going now that Valve has hired Sam Lantinga.

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      July 25, 2012 3:19 PM

      I use my computer as a media server first and a games machine second. Is there any reason to jumpon this or avoid it? I've heard about it looking stupid but for a simple man with simple needs Ike myself what's the haps?

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        July 25, 2012 3:25 PM

        Not really... your Win7 machine will be fine. I'd wait until Win8 is out of the gate and you really start to see what the early adopters & pundits have to say about it. As of right now, the reception hasn't been that great and as you can see from GabeN up above, people are thinking of ways to live *without* it which is pretty disturbing for a Windows release.

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        July 25, 2012 4:04 PM

        i think it'll be hot shit as a media center, im eager to try it out. i imagine using a remote control or the xbox controller in metro works very well

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          July 25, 2012 5:05 PM

          you can't use the metro UI with the Xbox Controller sadly, a remote probably works though since you can use the keyboard to navigate around the tiles.

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      July 25, 2012 3:22 PM

      Anyone heard me what i sai in previous windows article .... its a trainwreck.

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      July 25, 2012 3:45 PM

      if my steam library would could run everything on linux i'd probally switch.

    • reply
      July 25, 2012 4:16 PM

      What we need is a Valve OS primarily for gaming :) -- problem solved.

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      July 25, 2012 4:54 PM

      Where is the substance for this statement? I'm no fan of the metro ui, but it's ok. He may be referring to developing brand new native win RT apps - which may be rough.

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      July 25, 2012 5:08 PM

      You know, if Steam and Photoshop worked on Linux decently enough, I really don't feel tied to Windows at all anymore.

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      July 25, 2012 5:12 PM

      I think his main problem is the competition (windows store). Otherwise metro is simply a new start menu. Hell, afaik you can still start regular windows application like Half Life from the metro menu

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        July 25, 2012 6:30 PM

        Again, I really doubt Gabe/Valve, is at all worried about windows store competition. Games for Windows Live is not popular at all. Hell, they only sell games for windows live games, and ive never seen anything discounted on there. Plus, windows just sells their games on steam anyway.

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        July 25, 2012 6:40 PM

        The problem is that Metro, is not an UI fit for desktops or laptops, only for phones and Tablets.
        The desktop is just an app in the OS.

        And thats a really bad start for a PC OS, and for it to turn good the pros of the OS must be much greater than the cons to make that UI look a small mistake.

        I think this one is going to be a disaster similar windows ME, but in this case i've heard that win 8 gives some "performance" improvements compared to Win 7, so even if its a dissaster it won't be one as big as windows ME, but close to it.

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          July 25, 2012 9:35 PM

          Runs pretty beast like on my laptop and many hardware makers are rolling out multi touch touchpad's so you can do the same touch screen gestures. Its pretty sweet.

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        July 25, 2012 10:54 PM

        The main problem is WinRT.

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      July 25, 2012 6:42 PM

      one important point: Windows RT. on an ARM tablet, you'll have no choice but to get apps from the Windows Store, because the only non-Metro apps allowed are supplied by Microsoft. Valve could never write Steam for a Win RT tablet short of filing an antitrust complaint, so it's already locked out of part of the Windows 8 ecosystem (and heavily discouraged in another).

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        July 25, 2012 6:46 PM

        Valve could most certainly write a Metro version of Steam to browse content and purchase games, same as any current mobile platform. It's not like any of the content they sell in Steam would run on ARM even without that restriction.

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        July 25, 2012 11:49 PM

        They could deliver the same type of steam client they provide for iOS.

        Remember when iOS was introduced they talked about how it was OS X? We don't hear much about that anymore but it is basically OS X for ARM. WindowsRT is Windows for ARM.

        Both for Arm platforms are heavily locked down.

        We have been OK with Apple doing it. Sure, there is bitching and moaning by people who care about such things yet idiots like me still buy that shit up.

        So why should it be any different with Microsoft?

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          July 26, 2012 6:26 AM

          The clearest difference I can see is the Mac was a small market and iOS wasn't one at all, so they were expanding possibilities. If Microsoft comes in and pretty much closes the PC software market either with restrictive rules or just from user preference they would be hurting a massive existing market.

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          July 26, 2012 6:26 AM

          sure they "could" deliver a steam client, with microsoft's permission. How's the steam store on ios doing

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      July 25, 2012 6:53 PM

      PC version of Windows 8 is a tablet port.

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      July 25, 2012 10:38 PM

      totally agree

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      July 25, 2012 11:50 PM

      can it load a pornographic website? it works.

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        July 25, 2012 11:53 PM

        and there's no porn on steam, there should be the name basically implies it.

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      July 26, 2012 12:14 AM

      Windows 8 kind of sucks, but I also don't get some of Gabe's walled-garden criticisms given that Steam itself is a closed system that is based heavily around DRM.

      I say this as a huge Steam and Valve fan with hundreds of games in my library. It is weird reasoning that I don't understand is all. I've accepted walled gardens for the most part given that they are extremely convenient and secure. Amazon Kindle and Steam are two very locked down systems that I love. I guess he dislikes ones that are tied to a single operating system, I dunno.

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        July 26, 2012 1:09 AM

        Its about it being tied to the OS level by a "technical"competitor to their service. If Microsoft would not have GFWL or be known to bully other software companies out of their business, this may be a non issue.

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          July 26, 2012 5:00 AM

          Exactly, why are people stating that Steam is closed? That is not the point at all, Steam runs on an open platform -classic windows - where if you dont like Steam you can use something else. Microsoft bundling their own app store on top of windows is the issue here.

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      July 26, 2012 2:16 AM

      Pretty sure I'm skipping Windows 8. Specially if they're linking fucking XBox Live into it, I mean come on, that's a piss take right?

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      July 26, 2012 4:30 AM

      Right on, I hate windows 8 as well.

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      July 26, 2012 5:14 AM

      Steam will be full blown metro interface by december

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      July 26, 2012 6:23 AM

      Why doesn't Gabe just invest heavily in ReactOS?, that way they can make their own Steam OS that is binary compatible with all of it's existing windows games.

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      July 26, 2012 6:32 AM

      This video of Lockergnome's dad trying to use it is pretty funny: http://youtu.be/v4boTbv9_nU

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        July 26, 2012 6:41 AM

        haha

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        July 26, 2012 6:45 AM

        I'm tempted to try this with my Mum.

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          July 26, 2012 6:46 AM

          my mom dont even like Win 7, her head would explode if I had her try Win 8

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      July 26, 2012 7:17 AM

      Come on guys. We all know the one thing that we care about as gamers and PC users is performance. Sure Win8 looks like ass, but if Win8 (big "if") somehow surpasses Win7 in the performance category of running our beloved gaming PC hardware then we will switch. I know I will and I'll cry like a baby about Metro the whole way. But if it eeks out more FPS... you get the point.

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      July 26, 2012 11:14 AM

      I agree with Mr. Newell that absence of games is the biggest thing holding Linux back and that open platforms are important. The Linux GUI is kind of crappy in Ubuntu in my opinion, which is why I think Google replaced it in Android. I also tried the KDE and it was just as bad. I like Linux, but we need a desktop version with a good GUI and games. If it doesn't have Netflix then it needs that too. I think Windows monopoly will be ending soon, but not for PC gamers unless someone like Valve makes a long-term effort to give gamers an alternative.

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        July 30, 2012 12:30 PM

        You should try Linux Mint. It's Ubuntu with an interface designed to be as similar to Windows as possible. I know several people that use it.

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      July 26, 2012 4:56 PM

      The longer we go without any information about HL3, or even evidence that it may exist, the more I am starting to suspect that HL2 was simply a trojan horse created with the sole purpose of making Steam a 'must have' piece of software. They created a game that was so good, that everyone *had* to install Steam in spite of its major problems at the time. It was all part of their nefarious strategy to lock up online/downloadable game sales before the market really even started.

      I'm wondering if they ever intended to make HL3... just a necessary stepping stone to the nirvana of developing the Steam store.

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        July 31, 2012 9:36 AM

        Obviously you aren't wondering very hard.

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        July 27, 2012 2:55 PM

        ok in 20 years when the desktop is gone then we can worry...until then? meh.