Unreal Engine 5 unveiled by Epic Games, Lumen & Nanite tools showcased

Demonstrated on the PS5, Lumen provides new lighting technology while Nanite provides micropolygon geometry in the upgraded Unreal Engine 5.

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As we get closer to the next generation of console gaming, developers are crafting all-new tools to develop in the new space. Epic Games took the opportunity to share their latest build of their iconic engine with the announcement of the Unreal Engine 5. During a tech demo on the PlayStation 5, Epic Games showed off lighting tool Lumen and micropolygon tool Nanite to demonstrate what the Unreal Engine 5 can do on next-gen systems.

Epic Games shared the first glimpse of the Unreal Engine 5 in action during the Summer Game Fest stream on May 13, 2020. During the stream, Epic Games focused in very specifically on the Lumen dynamic lighting tool and Nanite micropolygon geometry tool that form core aspects of the new engine. Lumen is a dynamic global illumination system built to react immediately to scene and light changes. The system is built to be entirely dynamic to positions, appearance, or disappearance of various light sources. Meanwhile, Nanite is built to provide a way for graphics artists to pack as much geometry into an asset as the eye can see. The goal is to provide the opportunity for movie-quality assets with geometry composed of billions of triangles that can be easily designed in realtime without polygon count budgets and can be transferred easily without loss in quality along the way.

With tools like Lumen and Nanite sitting at the core of Unreal Engine 5, not only is the next generation engine meant to bring unparalleled visuals to console and PC gaming, but it will also streamline a lot of designer experiences. What's more, Unreal Engine 5 is meant to be a technology that won't just be utilized in gaming, but is instead also built with numerous other applications and careers in mind, such as assets for movies and television, architectural design, and much more. Unreal Engine 4.25 was released as a means to start development on the next generation of gaming. However, even though the first look at Unreal Engine 5 was demonstrated on the PlayStation 5, it will most certainly be available for development on PC and Xbox Series X in the future.

With only the first reveal of Unreal Engine 5, there's assuredly more to come from Epic Games as we move towards the next console generation and the development and utilization of Unreal Engine 5.

News Editor

TJ Denzer is a player with a passion for games that has dominated a lifetime. When he's not handing out beatdowns in the latest fighting games, exploring video game history, or playing through RPGs with his partner, he's searching for new food and drinks in the constant pursuit of good times with good people inside and outside the South Texas area. You can also find him on Twitter @JohnnyChugs.

From The Chatty
  • reply
    May 13, 2020 8:20 AM

    TJ Denzer posted a new article, Unreal Engine 5 unveiled by Epic Games, Lumen & Nanite tools showcased

    • reply
      May 13, 2020 8:28 AM

      Engine demo running on a PS5 https://youtu.be/qC5KtatMcUw

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        May 13, 2020 8:38 AM

        Just wow. That’s insane

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          May 13, 2020 8:39 AM

          Yeah! This is the kind of stuff i wanted to see from the (mislabeled) MS demo

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            May 13, 2020 8:45 AM

            Yes! That looks next gen. That looks like something current gen is incapable of running. That's the fucking future not "well guys you should expect to be disappointed because games just look good enough" or whatever was being said that day.

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            May 13, 2020 9:06 AM

            For real. This demo is jaw-dropping!

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            May 13, 2020 9:08 AM

            yeah. that was a let down, this stuff though is hot

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            May 13, 2020 1:41 PM

            Seems weird given I assume the new Xbox could run this same demo no sweat

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        May 13, 2020 8:45 AM

        A model straight from ZBrush? I call bullshit. That's too good to be true.

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        May 13, 2020 8:47 AM

        (This video wasn’t yet in the article when I posted this)

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        May 13, 2020 8:49 AM

        Also god damn video games look damn fucking good now! !!!!!!!!! !

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          May 13, 2020 8:51 AM

          The part where she is flying at super speeds with zero pop-in of anything or as far as I could tell no lod change... THAT was impressive!

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            May 13, 2020 11:41 AM

            Yup. That'll be helped massively by the beast-mode SSD.

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              May 13, 2020 12:32 PM

              Yeah, I did see, looking very carefully, some texture pop in when she first goes into the room with all the statues around the entryway. The loading is very quick, but I wonder if it's quick enough. There is a little jitter in the demo, and strangely I felt the character model was the worst looking part (still good, but the skin seemed fake) as well as some physics issues with the water. For being dynamically rendered though the terrain and lighting was stupendous.

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          May 13, 2020 8:51 AM

          Well itll be a couple of years likely?

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            May 13, 2020 8:57 AM

            I can't recall the time it took from Epic announcing UE4 and games that were claiming using the new tech...

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              May 13, 2020 9:07 AM

              you gotta believe that all the big Unreal developers have had this tech for a while

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                May 13, 2020 11:50 AM

                yeah this seems like it's been seeded for production for a while

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            May 13, 2020 9:08 AM

            The video mentioned 2021. I guess the launch PS5 / XSX games won't be all that impressive, and it's going to take a while until the game developers really use the full hardware potential.

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              May 13, 2020 9:17 AM

              They explained at the end of the Keighley interview that the tools drop to devs in early ‘21 and that the first available projects will be starting to appear in the fall and beyond.

              They did make a huge deal about how they were intent on creating this framework in a way that would let developers move seamlessly from UE4 into 5, so perhaps this explains how we will see some titles so quickly.

              Certainly a game like The Medium, that does real time environment shifts will at least see a performance enhancement, even if it wouldn’t be making use of uncompressed assets .

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        May 13, 2020 8:57 AM

        Very impressive.

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        May 13, 2020 9:04 AM

        ok I think i'm having a valcan moment. Direct zbrush import? wtf. That's amazing but games are going to be like 300GB now.

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          May 13, 2020 9:05 AM

          You can fit one game on the PS5 with its 825GB SSD.

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          May 13, 2020 9:06 AM

          I remember carmack talking about virtual geometry back when he was developing megatexture like it would be the next big step. glad to finally see it

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          May 13, 2020 12:34 PM

          It sounded like nanite was dynamically reducing the displayed polygons, I wonder if it importing the assets can be dynamically shrunk to what is actually visible.

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          May 13, 2020 1:48 PM

          That shit blew My mind, especially whenthey where like "there are 500 of those zbrush models" I was like WTF!!!!!!!!! OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!! Nuts hey :) , insanley cool I have no words! Almost sounds to good to be true!

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          May 13, 2020 1:51 PM

          During development, but they're still going to bake down to a reasonable max detail level - you ultimately still have to ship your game, and whether that's a download or a disc that puts real limits in place.

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            May 13, 2020 2:54 PM

            Exactly ^^^ Man your on like Donkey Kong today :) , heck the disk can only hold a 100GB so yeah unless we go back to a 4 disk set like in the 360 days LOL :) can you imagine a 400GB game!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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            May 14, 2020 3:46 AM

            Why not ship on USB sticks instead?

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              May 14, 2020 7:39 AM

              I mean ship on whatever you like, but the ~100GB capacity that a bluray can hit is still going to be the most cost effective option, and if you don't want to have performance issues accessing a USB drive you're going to have to pay for the onboard controller and flash to not be trash-tier stuff.

              You're still going to have size limits, at the very least the ~800+ GB internal drive on the PS5 itself.

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        May 13, 2020 9:16 AM

        Holy mother fuck. That is absolutely mind blowing.

        Just give me that demo and let me walk around looking at rocks, please.

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        May 13, 2020 10:01 AM

        Looks awesome. The fluid simulation stuff seemed really out of place compared to how good everything else looked... which is probably why they spent like 2 seconds on it.

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          May 13, 2020 10:02 AM

          Yeah it looked pretty lame. RDR2 did it better, and most recent games have. Them using a static pond probably means it’s not quite ready.

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          May 13, 2020 11:49 AM

          Excuse me while I shuffle through this excited jello

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            May 13, 2020 12:00 PM

            it's just magic water. the reason it looks weird is because we wanted it to look weird. not because our tech there isn't great!

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          May 13, 2020 12:24 PM

          I thought the same thing. Don't overdo water effects.

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        May 13, 2020 11:14 AM

        I know this has no AI or other stuff taking up resources, but that's still fucking staggering.

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        May 13, 2020 11:42 AM

        star citizen will have to start over again I bet

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        May 13, 2020 12:06 PM

        I cannot wait for games with that many triangles.

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        May 13, 2020 12:23 PM

        Holy fuckballs.

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        May 13, 2020 1:01 PM

        Video games have come a long way since I first loaded up Combat on my Atari 2600

      • reply
        May 13, 2020 1:01 PM

        same video from within the article right?

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        May 13, 2020 1:28 PM

        Incredible, really.

        But doesn’t this depend on the art budget of studios? All that detail takes time and skill to create.

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          May 13, 2020 1:37 PM

          With the right equipment it looks like you could take 3D photographs and import them directly, which takes money, but not nearly as much time.

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        May 13, 2020 3:34 PM

        Imagine going back in time when Quake first came out and showing this to your younger self.

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          May 13, 2020 3:41 PM

          "Hey little man! It's YOU from the FUTURE to show you this cool video game footage?"
          "Wait.. you're me? I got fat? Where'd my hair go?"
          "No, hold on - dude you gotta check out this amazing footage from Unreal Engine 5..."
          "Are you married?"
          "What?"
          "I said are you married? You look old enough to be Dad."
          "No.. I mean..."
          "Divorced?"
          "I mean I never found the right person..."
          "Fuck -- Tell me you at least followed your dreams and became an artist?"
          "Hey do you want to check out this video or not?"
          "You work in IT don't you."
          "Fuck you, kid. I'm going back through the portal now."

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            May 13, 2020 9:40 PM

            That sounds too familiar :(

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            May 14, 2020 10:27 AM

            This is art. You are an artist. Dream achieved. 💫

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          May 13, 2020 3:53 PM

          I'd go back to when I first played Starfox and I don't think little me would believe that was game footage. That being said, little me might have believed it was something real instead and then convinced himself that it was a weird dream.

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        May 13, 2020 3:56 PM

        I was watching this on my phone earlier and it was amazing, but now watching it on my 2K monitor and its blowing my fucking mind

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      May 13, 2020 8:30 AM

      I feel like UE4 hardly got its dues. Shit half the games released this gen that did use UE ended up using 3 still. Arkham Knight and MK11 both used UE3 to great effect. I wonder if we'll see a bunch of UE4 catchup games released this next gen and then some UE5 games?

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        May 13, 2020 9:20 AM

        The problem with UE4 was the time cost in upgrading from UE3 to UE4.
        Most AAA studios invested a ton in custom modules and tools in their UE3 engine that wasn't compatible without major effort when upgrading to UE4.

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        May 13, 2020 9:24 AM

        yah they mention that UE5 won't even be available/finished until 2021.. so will likely be a few years until we see some actual full UE5 titles developed from the ground up on that platform.

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          May 13, 2020 9:58 AM

          Probably also 2021. I could be wrong, but I'd guess they probably have a very small handful of close partners already building with it.

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            May 13, 2020 11:05 AM

            I hope the new Hellblade or The Medium are on 5

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              May 13, 2020 11:06 AM

              And holy shit I missed the new Scorn trailer, it lives.

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                May 13, 2020 11:31 AM

                Still very unsure if it has anything to offer from a gameplay or narrative standpoint, but it is quite pretty now.

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                  May 13, 2020 4:54 PM

                  it's feeling like it will be a exploration/puzzle game, which would bum out people expecting an fps. i'm totally cool with walking sims if they have excellent visuals and environments to explore.

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            May 13, 2020 12:15 PM

            Considering they called out PS5 (and not Xbox), I assume Sony 1st party studios are first in line. If HZD 2 uses this... Umm, I may just have to go PS5 instead of Xbox.

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              May 13, 2020 12:17 PM

              They've invested pretty heavily in their own engine (Decima); I would be surprised to see them switch to a third party one.

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                May 13, 2020 12:18 PM

                For current gen, sure. But I could see them buy-in on this for PS5 and save the coin. It times out well. I think.

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                  May 13, 2020 12:20 PM

                  Disagree. For one, it's in Sony's best interest to have other engines available, too, and while Unreal is nice they hardly have an exclusive on good visuals - where they excel is in tools, but of course that teal would already be familiar with their in-hourse solutions.

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              May 13, 2020 12:46 PM

              Hzd will definitely be decima engine

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                May 13, 2020 1:05 PM

                I only just got a ps4 last year, so I'm late to the party on stuff like that.

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              May 13, 2020 1:55 PM

              No.. It’s not a studio thing, i bet it because of the texture/data streaming that they do from their custom SSD architecture. Sony is using SSDs are a slow memory interface.

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                May 13, 2020 2:14 PM

                Yeah, their uncompressed throughput is faster than XSX's compressed, which is pretty ridiculous. That being said, I worry about the size of the assets on disk.

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                  May 13, 2020 2:16 PM

                  It’s going to be interesting seeing games that are written for their respective platforms. Sony’s line is to load games faster, I just wonder if enough games are going to use it, since most games are cross platform.

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                    May 13, 2020 2:19 PM

                    As I mentioned below, this should work on both platforms, but as designed I'm betting it works better on the PS5, and therefore actually looks better on the PS5 even though the XSX could render it faster. I'm guessing the data simply isn't being read into the CPU/GPU fast enough on the XSX for how this is designed.

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        May 13, 2020 12:19 PM

        I think bigger companies this-gen got away from using third-party engines like UE3 and made their own tech. Meanwhile, Unity3d caught up to UE4 in terms of capabilities and was (until recently) much cheaper.

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          May 13, 2020 1:37 PM

          That's quite the opposite of what I'm seeing - there's examples of games making their own tech, sure, but Unreal is used in everything from Borderlands 3 to The Mandalorian.

          For years at QuakeCon keynotes Carmack would estimate how many engines he had left in him and would postulate that at some point in the future some game engines would get to the point where most people use them for a game instead of writing a new one every time. Analogy I heard from him or elsewhere is that it when Stephen Spielberg wants to make a new movie he doesn't stop for a year or more to invent a new camera every time, he just uses existing cameras and makes his movie with them. And there's companies out there whose job is to invent new cameras, he just goes to one of those.

          Today Carmack is working for Facebook and playing with helmets, id Tech has become an internal to Bethesda trade secret, and Unreal and Unity have pretty much taken the mantle on most large projects that don't want to write their own.

          And I haven't checked lately but last I looked Unreal was so far ahead of Unity in terms of graphics and performance it's not even funny. But of course it is - it's an engine that's been in development since the 90's, whereas Unity started out life as a protoduction fluke designed to show off .NET-based middleware.

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            May 13, 2020 1:54 PM

            I don't disagree. I think making your own engine + tools is expensive and impractical unless there's a really good reason and you have more money and brains than most.

            A Plague's Tale at first glance might make sense as a UE4 engine game, but the fluid particle system was so crucial to the game that they had to make it their own engine from scratch.

            But yeah maybe next gen we will see a resurgence of third-party licensing.

          • reply
            May 13, 2020 2:11 PM

            Carmack pretty much left Occulus I think

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      May 13, 2020 8:49 AM

      Looks good! I wonder how well it scales downward for ports to older gen stuff.

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        May 13, 2020 9:19 AM

        Go watch the interview with Geoff Keighley. They made a big deal about providing a toolset for downscaling from Lumen/Nanite all the way down to iOS and Android.

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          May 13, 2020 9:25 AM

          Will do! I love watching super detailed next-gen stuff, but I also am interested when they can squeeze great graphics and effects out of older or lighter hardware.

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            May 13, 2020 9:35 AM

            The interview is particularly valuable because they discuss the big picture for the next decade: creating a set of assets that can merge a film or show or commercial product like a car purchase demo straight into a real time shared interactive experience, that can also accept any amount of user generated content, since all the pixels and lighting and positional audio is processed in real time. It’s a beautiful vision, even though it’s obviously ripe for being commercially utilized as a new way to shove advertising and marketing juggernauts down everyone’s throats.

        • reply
          May 13, 2020 12:19 PM

          Link?

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      May 13, 2020 8:54 AM

      Oh fuck yeah!

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      May 13, 2020 10:06 AM

      The Tomb of Uncharted Horizons looks amazeballs!!!!!

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        May 13, 2020 12:38 PM

        Yeah, I saw that and it definitely felt like Uncharted. And the climbing animations felt like Horizons now that ou mention it.

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      May 13, 2020 12:02 PM

      Unmentioned feature of UE5 is realtime anime-eye replacer.

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        May 13, 2020 1:00 PM

        still work in progress. once they've completed the feature (including real-time "Unreal-Fursona Tech 1.0) im sure they'll have another announcement. Ive heard rumors they're getting into the cosmetic surgery biz...

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      May 13, 2020 12:28 PM

      OMG!!!!! That was the most insane engine tech I have ever seen!!!!! I will bet money that everyone is going to be upgrading in the next year or so. One way or another PS5, XBSX and new GPUs will be rolling into gamers homes in order to have this tech in our games, believe that! Next Gen is no joke this is a MEGA massive Ultra Omega jump in hardware and tech in the coming year!!!! LOL some thought Next Gen only equals faster loading times, if I hear one more streamer or person say that I am going to loose it.

      Man once games have this tech PS5, XBSX, and new GPUs for PC are going to be flying off the shelves into homes!

      Feels good Man https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-BkrwO_Dck let's freaking GO!!!! \m/ :) \m/ + My mind is 1000% blown!!!!!

      Jesus Christ!!!!! Did you Guys see that...... fwwwwwwww..... Damnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn!!!!!!!

      [ WOW ]

      • reply
        May 13, 2020 12:36 PM

        I was waiting for this post

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          May 13, 2020 12:57 PM

          [ high five ] Me \m/ :) \m/ , freaking incredible stuff!!! My body is ready!!!!! :)

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        May 13, 2020 2:07 PM

        I feel like this demo hinged on the I/O interface, ie SSD. I dont think that games can run like this, if they dont get the data into the CPU/GPU cores fast enough. Hence the PS5 demo.

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          May 13, 2020 3:02 PM

          No your 100% right, it 100% relies on this. Having said that you could scale the engine back and have it stream in small amounts of data and still use it even on the slowest HDD.

          Basically different speeds of IO -> NMVe's to HDD will equal a X amount of data that you can stream into your game, so think of it like TF in a GPU and how much you can render etc. Basically there will now be a IO amount that is rated per hard drive no matter what the technology is.

          Well this is how I would design it so it could scale from junk old HDD to the fastest Gen 4 NVMe + console Gen 4 NVMe and this way everyone can use the dope tech + adapt it!!!!

          Honestly I think it will be used for everything, but your 100% right this sort of IO load that is in the demo will only be for high end and the Next Gen consoles.

      • reply
        May 13, 2020 9:07 PM

        I love your enthusiasm. It would pump me up if I wasn't pumped already

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      May 13, 2020 12:38 PM

      Guess we shoulda been expecting it to happen ever since Euclideon's Unlimited Detail Engine tech demo a decade ago but damn it's amazing to see it actually solved and running!

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      May 13, 2020 12:38 PM

      Looks neat, but need to see this on a PC, not PS5.

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      May 13, 2020 12:39 PM

      Looks great.

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      May 13, 2020 12:54 PM

      When real-time global illumination and bounce lighting can look that good, what's the real draw of more expensive & taxing ray tracing for lighting and shadows?

      Will RTX be even further restrained to rendering specific effects more accurately like reflections?

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        May 13, 2020 1:01 PM

        I would guess so, things like reflections, shadows, ambient occlusion all seem like good candidates for RT. Seems like a good thing, even if the 3080 leaks are true it seems like we're still a ways off from fully RT scenes in complex games.

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        May 13, 2020 5:34 PM

        Isn’t that its strongest suit anyways?

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          May 13, 2020 6:27 PM

          At this point, I guess it is. To me it's more like those things are just the most common, simplest, least crucial implementations - used for minor effects that when taken away on hardware that can't do ray tracing or disabled for performance reasons, the game doesn't really lose all that much as a whole. The new PhysX.

          The ultimate ray tracing promise and end goal was always more realistic lighting and shadows, it was hyped and sold on that over all else, but when the tech arrived it was still too weak to actually do that properly, so much so a lot of us assumed it would take at least a few more console generations to get there, even with DLSS picking up the slack in some ways.

          Barely any games have even taken a stab at even the most basic ray traced global illumination, Metro Exodus is the only one I've played (and actually know about at this point I suppose?). While it was only a single bounce, the results were impressive as hell and potential was thrilling. No one has bothered to try and match or top that, which is disappointing. And now with stuff like Lumen in UE5 that appears to approximate that sort of GI just as well or better with probably far less performance impact, it almost seems kinda pointless to even keep chasing the fully ray traced lighting at all, it's a fools errand. Which is a bummer in a way, but really not that unexpected with how much lighting (faked, baked, and real-time) has improved in game engines over the years, and how young the RT hardware still is.

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            May 13, 2020 8:49 PM

            Precisely.

            But I think these fellows were seeing the limitations years before the public fully did and started trying to think outside the box and go in a different direction. Pretty cool when you think about it, just from a design perspective.

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      May 13, 2020 12:57 PM

      detail: "holy shit!"
      lighting: "holy shit!"
      scale: "holy shit!"

      water: "hmm, looks pretty basic..."
      cloth physics: "looks pretty good... still kinda lightweight and wispy?"

    • reply
      May 13, 2020 1:04 PM

      How, if at all, is this level of fidelity affected in a "real game" where there is also AI, multiple characters on screen and so on? Will it still look and perform the same or is what I'm looking at hear more of an ideal state I won't see practically speaking?

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        May 13, 2020 1:09 PM

        As shown was already suffering from some jitter. Multiple characters and AI won't matter so much as this is all rendering, unless said rendering requires considerable CPU power over GPU power. It will be interesting to see real world examples though I agree.

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      May 13, 2020 1:11 PM

      More details on UE5 @: https://www.unrealengine.com/en-US/blog/a-first-look-at-unreal-engine-5

      [ Key] "Unreal Engine 5 will be available in preview in early 2021, and in full release late in 2021, supporting next-generation consoles, current-generation consoles, PC, Mac, iOS, and Android."

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-BkrwO_Dck let's freaking GO!!!!!! \m/ :) \m/

      • reply
        May 13, 2020 1:14 PM

        If the full release is end of 2021, that means games likely won’t use it until 2023 or 2024, unless Epic is going to release their own game concurrently or soon after. This is a long way out.

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          May 13, 2020 1:25 PM

          Nah, it's pretty much a guarantee a few close partners are already working with it as it progresses. I'd be willing to bet you'll see a few triple-A titles in either late 2021 or early 2022.

      • rms legacy 10 years mercury super mega
        reply
        May 13, 2020 1:38 PM

        My question is whether this will have VR-specific features, either to make VR dev easier and improve performance.

        My impression is it's yet another layer of complexity for devs to make VR games, and though I'm reasonably happy @1440p on my monitor, higher quality settings in VR are unobtainable at 120hz or even 90hz with consistent framerates. This will be the #1 thing I'm looking at with nextgen videocards, and hope it's being addressed in these new engine updates.

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      May 13, 2020 1:17 PM

      I'll just repeat what I said when I first saw Wolfenstein 3D, these graphics are getting crazy.

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      May 13, 2020 1:22 PM

      Yet people will still find a way to be disappointed when this doesn't run at 4k 60fps.

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      May 13, 2020 1:22 PM

      I saw somewhere it’s 1440p at 30fps. I was hoping for a target of 60fps on all next gen games but I know people love dem graphics still.

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        May 13, 2020 1:29 PM

        MS retracted on that statement btw... 60fps is not a requirement just a soft target.

        • reply
          May 13, 2020 1:39 PM

          Yea I figured it was the case. Games have targeted 30fps forever, fidelity > FPS. That’s why I laugh at the 4K 120hz specs.

      • reply
        May 13, 2020 1:35 PM

        I don't understand. I thought UE4 was superior to Unity in the first place?

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          May 13, 2020 1:44 PM

          Depends on how you define superior. Unity is easier to develop for.

          • reply
            May 13, 2020 1:45 PM

            Kinda depends on what you're trying to do. Unreal's toolset is really good for modern 3D graphics.

      • reply
        May 13, 2020 5:15 PM

        Lol friendship ended is good

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      May 13, 2020 1:36 PM

      The interview after feels like epic is shilling for Sony. They can’t even say “Xbox” https://youtu.be/VBhcqCRzsU4 all while praising PS5 nonstop.

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        May 13, 2020 2:09 PM

        The PS5 has over double the internal storage throughput for the SSD than the Xbox. If it comes down to technical limitations then it makes sense that they would only be talking about PS5 here. I wouldn’t be surprised if the sequence at the end is something only PS5 is capable of, but we won’t know for sure until they actually say so.

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          May 13, 2020 2:13 PM

          if it's that big a difference, no cross-platform game will ever use that then …

          • reply
            May 13, 2020 2:16 PM

            Depends on how well the tech scales, theoretically it will work well on both, but look better on the PS5 than the XSX if the issue is SSD read speed.

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            May 13, 2020 4:44 PM

            If you want cross platform games, PC is always going to be the best place to play. For me, Playstation is all about the exclusives.

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          May 13, 2020 2:37 PM

          how is their SSD that much faster?

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            May 13, 2020 2:45 PM

            Because they spent time and money on it

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            May 13, 2020 2:49 PM

            Sony compared to Xbox sacrificed CPU clock speed and number of GPU cores in exchange for a custom controller and much higher raw throughput.

            I can easily see this driving future PCs. Its been so long since I’ve seen anything that’s far ahead of what we have on desktop.

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              May 13, 2020 3:00 PM

              its completely custom? not pci-express based?

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                May 13, 2020 3:04 PM

                It is, basically 12 channels of PCIe dedicated to it, with a custom controller managing the SSD itself.

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            May 13, 2020 3:24 PM

            They spent a lot of their hardware budget on the SSD. A game gives a pointer, an asset ID and a priority to the hardware, and then 1 - 2ms later, that asset is in memory. Hardware runs the filesystem, decompression, and DMA with no CPU involvement.

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              May 13, 2020 3:25 PM

              that's pretty slick

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                May 13, 2020 3:36 PM

                On paper the difference is the Xbox at 2.4GB/s decompressed and 4.8GB/s compressed while the PS5 is at 5.5GB/s decompressed and 9GB/s compressed. Its over a 2x difference in data throughput.

                The downside will be limited storage space. That internal SSD is going to run out very fast. I could be wrong but I assume that you won't get the same benefits from external storage. It will be custom SSD cards for Xbox and certified compatible third party SSDs that will plug in for PS5. I don't know if the PS5 will support Thunderbolt 3, we'll see.

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                  May 13, 2020 3:36 PM

                  Shit like this is also why the next-gen consoles won't be $400, not for a couple of years.

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                  May 13, 2020 3:53 PM

                  Just really hope it's a decent USB 3 plug at the fucking back of the console where you can plug in a 4TB laptop drive and sit and copy your game to SSD 25 minutes before playing. Just in time to have the weekly shower, open the wine and have the pizza arrive etc.

                  • reply
                    May 13, 2020 4:03 PM

                    I can see slower drives being used strictly as data backup like you're saying. I do know that if a PS5 game is going to actually run off of an external drive it has to be from an NVMe drive that is certified. Cerny himself said that the console itself runs a test on the drive to see if it is capable.

                    I'm pretty certain that slower external drives can still run PS4 games on the PS5, so it would make sense that they'll allow you to store PS5 games on them so you can copy to the main SSD as needed.

                    • reply
                      May 13, 2020 4:40 PM

                      What are the odds, Sony puts 0 USB ports on the back of the launch model device again ? We have to wait for PS5 Pro for a rear USB of some sort?

        • Zek legacy 10 years
          reply
          May 13, 2020 2:59 PM

          Come on, it's clear they have a comarketing deal with Sony.

          • reply
            May 13, 2020 3:20 PM

            Both of those things can't be true? We know the hard specs and we've seen the load times on both consoles with actual running software. There is a massive difference between the PS5 and Xbox in terms of load times.

        • reply
          May 13, 2020 4:59 PM

          Why would the end sequence be only something the PS5 can do? Everything is already on screen, which means everything is already loaded from the drive. They're generating the GPU-ready mesh from the high res in memory model. It's possible that the transition from indoors to outdoors would be slower, since even in this demo that part looks like it's chugging while it's loading assets, but once it's loaded that's it, the rest is just on the fly polygon reduction and rendering, nothing to do with the drive.

      • reply
        May 13, 2020 3:29 PM

        I am excite for UE5.

      • reply
        May 13, 2020 4:09 PM

        Then Microsoft should pay some fatter stacks if they want more publicity. Epic has bills to pay.

      • reply
        May 13, 2020 4:35 PM

        I was expecting something of this caliber from Microsoft's event last week.

    • reply
      May 13, 2020 2:49 PM

      I remember John Carmack talking about virtualized geometry for what he foresaw becoming idTech 6 before he left id.

      • reply
        May 13, 2020 4:38 PM

        Yep that was a huge inspiration for me and started me on this journey researching what would become Nanite.

    • reply
      May 13, 2020 4:33 PM

      Just thought I'd drop by here to say I'm the inventor of Nanite. It's not bullshit. I've been researching this for a decade and working on it for 3+ years. Been a proud day. Phone's been blowing up but I thought I'd stop by the shack and say hi.

      • reply
        May 13, 2020 4:34 PM

        A+ work.

      • reply
        May 13, 2020 4:40 PM

        I take full credit for all of your work. Awesome job by the way. Go me!

      • reply
        May 13, 2020 4:42 PM

        Congrats man! That's incredible.

      • reply
        May 13, 2020 4:47 PM

        Great job! Congrats!

      • reply
        May 13, 2020 4:47 PM

        Awesome job on this, I am blown away. Thanks too for commenting here!

      • reply
        May 13, 2020 4:47 PM

        Did you expect this level of response? Must feel so rewarding!

        • reply
          May 13, 2020 4:50 PM

          TMWB should interview you!!

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          May 13, 2020 5:32 PM

          Bouncing between I think this will change everything, to being scared someone else will beat me to the punch, to wondering if the public can even tell the difference in graphics nowadays. Expect no. Hope for yes. All of it was expected to go down differently too as this was originally meant to be revealed on stage at GDC before COVID changed everything. I was going to be on the stage and we'd play the demo live to an audience. Then we rapidly pivoted to recording the video before the office shut down. Then waited for the moment to release and whether anyone would even pay attention with all the other shit going on in the world. I guess we timed it right in the end.

          • reply
            May 13, 2020 5:34 PM

            could you hazard a guess when we'll see this tech in a game?

            • reply
              May 13, 2020 5:39 PM

              Our website says UE5 is shipping next year and we are moving Fortnite over to UE5 next year as well. I can't speak to anything past that, partly because other developers haven't known this was coming until now.

              • reply
                May 13, 2020 5:41 PM

                ah so my theory that big studios have had a crack at this already was bullshit :)

                • reply
                  May 13, 2020 6:48 PM

                  I would wager that there are other partners using it but no one can talk about it nda's etc.

              • reply
                May 13, 2020 6:26 PM

                Wow, so this was a total reveal. Dropping bombs! Congrats. Today must be a hell of a rush .

          • reply
            May 13, 2020 5:47 PM

            This is the most impressive tech demo I’ve seen. People definitely noticed. Amazing work!

            Wish there was an uncompressed video to download.

          • reply
            May 13, 2020 8:20 PM

            https://twitter.com/tamoorh/status/1260603909795491840

            You've already been meme'd. You've made it. Good job and keep working on the holodeck please because I'm getting old.

      • reply
        May 13, 2020 4:49 PM

        Wow!

      • reply
        May 13, 2020 4:53 PM

        A decade?! Wow. Does that mean this tech is possible on older machines or does it require the blazing fast I/O that PS5 and XSX are capable of?

        • reply
          May 13, 2020 6:33 PM

          probably means he worked on the math and algorithms (maybe a research project in grad school? I dunno).

      • reply
        May 13, 2020 4:55 PM

        Hey, I enjoyed the presentation and congratulations on the work. As a fellow developer myself I can understand the feeling of things finally coming together.

      • reply
        May 13, 2020 4:55 PM

        So good!

      • reply
        May 13, 2020 4:57 PM

        Can confirm, Sweeney gives you credit here in this VB article

        Sweeney: The first Unreal Engine 5 work began a couple of years ago. Brian Karis, a young graphics programmer who was in the video, began experimentation with the Nanite technology, as well as Lumen.
        ....
        Libreri: Brian himself is an amazing engineer, but — he gets wound up when we call him part-tech artist, but he has a real empathy for art and visuals. I’ve been at Epic for six years. He was talking about doing this all the time I’ve been there. A couple of years ago we said, “Go on, do some research.” And then finally last year, around this time, we looked at the early results and said, “That’s amazing. It’s going to work.” We dogpiled the whole demo team on it and built this demo.

        https://venturebeat.com/2020/05/13/how-epic-games-is-tailoring-unreal-engine-5-to-make-next-gen-graphics-shine/2/

        • reply
          May 13, 2020 5:25 PM

          Hah that great! I hadn't seen that article.

        • reply
          May 13, 2020 5:34 PM

          Well there's that and also I'm the dude in the video.

          • reply
            May 13, 2020 5:56 PM

            Whatever, anybody can be a talking head in a video, it's not real unless sweeney says it's real.

            • reply
              May 13, 2020 6:37 PM

              The video was just a complete digital fabrication showing how good the technological is at this point. I mean, look how close they were sitting together, that wasn't 6 feet! no way that was real :)

        • reply
          May 13, 2020 6:15 PM

          So cool.

      • reply
        May 13, 2020 4:59 PM

        it looks amazing dude, congrats

      • reply
        May 13, 2020 5:05 PM

        Dude. Amazing work. Getting something like that working in real-time is incredible.

      • reply
        May 13, 2020 5:08 PM

        you one smart dude!

      • reply
        May 13, 2020 5:12 PM

        Gorgeous! Curious if Luebke's work influenced Nanite at all?

        • reply
          May 13, 2020 5:26 PM

          I'm not sure. Which work is that?

          • reply
            May 13, 2020 7:07 PM

            Perceptual LOD research circa 2000, maybe later?

            • reply
              May 13, 2020 9:15 PM

              No but some related work did. I'll have to talk a look at his stuff again. I had dinner with David some years ago but its been a while.

      • reply
        May 13, 2020 5:12 PM

        Looks super bad ass to me man, congrats on the success!!

      • reply
        May 13, 2020 5:14 PM

        Congrats, incredible work.

      • reply
        May 13, 2020 5:25 PM

        Hah, awesome.

      • reply
        May 13, 2020 5:45 PM

        Thank you for doing it for Shacknews :)

      • reply
        May 13, 2020 5:48 PM

        Excellent work, dude. Congrats :)

      • reply
        May 13, 2020 5:49 PM

        you're breathtaking

      • reply
        May 13, 2020 5:53 PM

        [deleted]

      • reply
        May 13, 2020 6:03 PM

        Congrats. Definitely the most famous lurker now :)

      • reply
        May 13, 2020 6:04 PM

        Congratulations!

        I wanted to know if there are any plans to release a less compressed version of the demo on the website. On Youtube there are compression artifacts that normally wouldn't bother me (I'm viewing the 4K stream on a 4K IPS display). Since this is a tech demo that's a little different. There is so much detail here, especially things like displaying the scene with false color, that I'd love to see a version with fewer compression artifacts.

        Thanks, and congrats again!

        • reply
          May 13, 2020 6:18 PM

          There's this https://vimeo.com/417882964. The ProRes video is 79gb I'm told. Not sure where we would put such a thing. AFAIK there isn't a plan to post that somewhere. We too are annoyed about the compression artifacts.

          • reply
            May 13, 2020 6:23 PM

            Terrific, thanks again!

            • reply
              May 13, 2020 6:27 PM

              I also assume that even the original video source would have some pixel chasing and smearing on the false color section. I'm going to assume that the live render is the only way you're really going to see it the way its supposed to.

              The Vimeo link has less compression artifacts for sure, shadows look better, etc. Thanks again

              • reply
                May 13, 2020 7:10 PM

                I wish I could see this in HDR. Are there any streaming HDR options on Vimeo or YouTube that work on any TV apps?

                • reply
                  May 13, 2020 7:24 PM

                  I assume we'd see the biggest difference running on the actual hardware itself. I imagine that we'd really see the difference from HDR in parts like when the exposure adjusts as she leaves the temple

                  • reply
                    May 13, 2020 7:26 PM

                    Can HDR not be efficiently encoded for streaming compared to raw output? (e.g. what we see on Netflix in 4K HDR is not going to hold a candle to raw?)

                    • reply
                      May 13, 2020 7:31 PM

                      I'm not sure. I do know that with video content (say UHD) you make one master for UHD HDR output and another for standard.

                      I don't know what they do for Netflix shows, it may be one and the same thing but I can't say for sure. HDR is generally treated as its own deliverable though.

                      In any case, things like the false color image would presumably require INSANE fucking file sizes to render each pixel perfectly, with no visible compression artifacts or motion/color interpolation, as if it was running live and in front of you.

                      I guess what I'm saying is I want to see it running live and in person. :)

                      • reply
                        May 13, 2020 7:35 PM

                        Amen.

                      • reply
                        May 13, 2020 9:01 PM

                        Yep that was the part we were the most concerned about. I just went looking for screenshots of the triangle view and was surprised we didn't send those in the press pack. I thought we were. At least that would allow you to see it outside of video.

                        This demo was originally made for a GDC stage announcement and shown on an LED wall behind the stage. It wasn't really appropriate to target HDR for that specific display and context so we didn't.

                      • reply
                        May 13, 2020 9:06 PM

                        You can master for both as you say which is common. Hybrid Log Gamma is a way to encode once and view on either HDR or LDR. Designed for broadcast for that reason. I don't think there's much special to the video encoding beyond putting it in the right color space PQ and rec2020 for HDR10 but I've only dealt with this from the game side, not video encoding.

          • reply
            May 13, 2020 6:39 PM

            I would toss it up as a download on the Epic Games Store. Epic is fine with throwing dozens of games of numerous GBs at millions of people for free, and this is also promotion for their tools, current and future. Worth the bandwidth.

            If not, is bittorrent still a thing? I'd actually install a client to check out that 79GB monster.

          • reply
            May 13, 2020 7:06 PM

            Just so you know if you Guys have VEGAS Pro 17 in house you can pick the 8K profile and bake your video at that profile/rez no matter what the source is recorded in: like 1080p 60 FPS , 4K etc. All you do then is upload that 8K cooked video to YouTube and it will be published under their new top of the line 8K bitrate profile. I have tried this My self and the bitrate is extremely high and near 1 : 1 , well not 100% 1 : 1 but as close as your gonna get and 100% worth looking into. The only problem is you will want a 3970x or 3990x Threadripper to cook the video since it does not have a GPU accelerated processor for the 8K profile and is only CPU driven. So a 8 min video will take a couple days to render on an old 32 logical core CPU like My 1950x.

            Anyways I am sure you have some crazy CPUs and configs in the office that can easily crunch the video in their 8K profile!!!! Hope that helps!

            • reply
              May 13, 2020 8:49 PM

              That is good to know! I'll pass it on. Might be tricky though as we wouldn't want to give the impression it's 8k output from the kit and piss people off.

              • reply
                May 13, 2020 11:24 PM

                Cool! Yeah, cause you know gamers :) or the internet for that matter. You would have to have a disclaimer in the title or splash screen and say something like: running at 1440p + dynamic resolution on a PS5 dev kit nativley but processed on a 8K profile to take advantage of the best bitrate on YouTube to simulate a Direct Feed video. Heck you could even have the first few frames say that/or similar as the disclaimer so no one freaks out and thinks it's running at 8K native and then have no worries!

                Glad I could potentially help,YouTube can be brutal on small detail(especially if it is moving/changing all the time) and your video deserves the very best for the detail is freaking insane!

                Good luck!

          • reply
            May 13, 2020 7:14 PM

            Amazing

      • reply
        May 13, 2020 6:19 PM

        but can it run Doom? loving it! next gen games will be amazing.

      • reply
        May 13, 2020 6:31 PM

        Congrats, awesome work.

        My dev team meanwhile is challenged by AutoLayout on iOS. FFS.

      • reply
        May 13, 2020 6:40 PM

        Awesome stuff dude. Keep up the good work!

      • reply
        May 13, 2020 6:41 PM

        Tech looks awesome. Good job, dude.

      • reply
        May 13, 2020 6:48 PM

        Freaking amazing Man \m/ :) \m/ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-BkrwO_Dck , seriously Dude My mind was blown away by everything that was going on in that video it was truly historical, mind blowing and the next step to game engine tech with out doubt!

        Still can't get over it's using 8K textures, direct model imports as is... I mean shit that there was 500 of those MEGA ZBrush models in that scene it was freaking crazy. And that new lighting model is bananas it just looks so full and so freaking good and crazy, beautiful depth and un flat like so many models today. LOL you sure took tessellation to the next level, am I right [ MEGA Ultra Omega high five ] :) . I still just can't get over what you have achieved here it is... just.... incredible I feel so complete after watching that video and like thee is hope. Then you got the shadows turned up to 1000 it's basically all real time on all the insane detail with you amazing global illumination which again I have to say looks so damn sexy, I love it!!!!!

        Next the audio, that part was cool it is great that you Guys are working on that as well, thought I mention that. So yeah back to the demo, that scene with the light reacting to the beetles in your particles system... Dude that was sick what an amazing touch! Always cool to see mega tech also used in gameplay, so good! Also that new animation system that works with all your other details/work it looks sooooooo good, makes Me never want to play Skyrim or Fallout 4 ever again LOL.

        Anyways I can't get over the detail and how this makes current tessellation look like old school 90s OG 3D, we final got the real deal never thought I see it! As an amateur modern 2D engine Guy I always love to see the top Guys engine tech and find it MEGA inspiring and of course it makes Me hungry to plan My next comp I will build, so mega thank you for this tech and all the hard work you Guys have done \m/ :) \m/ massive love and respect! I have to do it again https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-BkrwO_Dck this is Me the whole day thinking of the video and when I replay it.

        So again MEGA congrats Man, you must feel amazing right now!!! Enjoy and I wish you Guys all the best \m/ :) \m/

        Before I go and watch the demo again I have to ask... that end part when She goes out side and fly into that Mega open world where the detail is still ultra omega crazy and high is that all real time at that speed....!!!!!? That was even more crazy if I think about it then the rest which was beyond crazy!!!!!!

        Take care plus thanks again.

        • reply
          May 13, 2020 9:23 PM

          Thanks! Yes, everything is real-time 30hz on PS5. Recorded off the HDMI from the back of the devkit. The last flying part wasn't interactive. Once you walk to the door a cinematic triggers since we didn't have flying controls implemented. For a while during development we were planning for it to be playable on the GDC floor but that got nixed because Sony didn't want people trying to mess with it and purposefully try and make a the ps5 crash and get secret info or something. If the flying was interactive you could potentially fly somewhere we didn't have time to art up so it was easier to put it on rails for that bit.

          • reply
            May 13, 2020 11:06 PM

            Awesome! Well even if if you can't control that flying part and it's on rails that is still freaking amazing! Huh no way, very cool info plus you know if it was in demo(free flight) everyone would of tried to fly where ever they can to try and break it LOL, so I totally get why that was blocked. You Guys would have had to do a lot of work to lock that area down.

            Honestly I am still blown away by it all and digesting the video and still feel like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-BkrwO_Dck feels good Man :) , anyways thanks for the response and have an awesome night + sleep and mega congrats!!!!!

      • reply
        May 13, 2020 6:51 PM

        You also worked on Robo Recall correct? That game is fantastic as well.

        • reply
          May 13, 2020 9:25 PM

          Jerome, the art director from the video was art director on Robo. I barely worked on it other than my UE4 rendering tech is used like it would be for any other. I didn't do much bespoke for that game.

      • reply
        May 13, 2020 7:02 PM

        Thanks for doing what you do, man! I'm sure getting to this point was no walk in the park, and you've had your share of mental anguish along the way. But your tech is going to make a lot of people happy, for a long time to come. Much appreciated!

      • reply
        May 13, 2020 7:07 PM

        Incredible work!

      • reply
        May 13, 2020 7:14 PM

        a nice leap forward in graphics engines....jaw dropping beautiful works of art.

      • reply
        May 13, 2020 7:32 PM

        great work

      • reply
        May 13, 2020 7:38 PM

        Shacknews, interview this man! Now!

      • reply
        May 13, 2020 8:06 PM

        Amazing work! Can’t wait to see some of the games and apps others can use it for.

      • reply
        May 13, 2020 8:27 PM

        Duncan Jones (writer/director) is tweeting about how impressed he is with the demo.

        https://twitter.com/ManMadeMoon/status/1260594134017966081

        I live on twitter but yeah, that's pretty cool. MOON was an amazing film.

        • reply
          May 13, 2020 8:55 PM

          Thanks! I hadn't seen this and I love Moon.

      • reply
        May 13, 2020 9:39 PM

        That's awesome. How is unlimited geometry "render what you see" different than occlusion culling?

      • reply
        May 13, 2020 11:30 PM

        seriously, I picked up my eyeballs off the floor and put them back in after watching the footage. amazing stuff!

      • reply
        May 14, 2020 12:34 AM

        Demo was amazing. You’ve got the VFX crowd furiously learning UE right now. Does this old blog post of yours have any link to this new geo streaming technique? http://graphicrants.blogspot.com/2009/01/virtual-geometry-images.html

        Can you say how much preprocessing is involved with high resolution meshes?

      • reply
        May 14, 2020 2:03 AM

        amazing looking stuff, great work ! I'd really like to know more about the technical aspects

      • reply
        May 14, 2020 2:26 AM

        Well done. Been a while since I have been hyped for new tech. You did it. :)

      • reply
        May 14, 2020 9:21 AM

        Excellent work man, my jaw was on the floor

    • reply
      May 13, 2020 4:49 PM

      The shadow boarders near the end when they are moving around inside the shrine look terrible.

      • reply
        May 13, 2020 6:19 PM

        there are some interesting black boxy flashy artifacts as well. good to see in a 'real' gameplay demo.

        • reply
          May 13, 2020 6:26 PM

          I mean, I kinda forgot this is running on a PS5 and its the stepping stone between consoles and raytracing PCs, so everything else is quite impressive. But those shadows were just jarring to me.

          Static shadows looked great.

          • reply
            May 13, 2020 7:38 PM

            with video compression it's hard to know what it actually looks like

    • reply
      May 13, 2020 6:29 PM

      A question I have as a non-dev is how will this affect/benefit development time/cost?

      How does one develop a ninite world?

    • reply
      May 13, 2020 8:08 PM

      After much deliberation I've decided I'll allow myself to buy a PS5. Please update your article accordingly. Thank you.

    • reply
      May 13, 2020 9:30 PM

      May I ask a question from someone who doesn't know all the in's/out's of the technical side? This kind of stuff is amazing but how does it translate to real world game creation in so far as how much longer does it take to make a great game with these insane details? Can we expect to see a GTA 6 with such fidelity? Does this level of graphics mean years of development? I never expected games to become what they have when I was a wee lad long ago but I love how it's been exceeding my expectations.

      • reply
        May 13, 2020 9:47 PM

        I asked a similar question to a game dev on reddit today. The new tech adds a lot to world design, but also takes away a lot of labor intensive optimization routines and lighting design. In the video they mention the statue that comes directly from Zbrush (3D modelling software) without any need to downsample or re-texture. So the gyst of it was, "About the same".

    • reply
      May 13, 2020 11:26 PM

      Is this the moment in gaming where we look back in 10yrs and say "that is when everything changed...." ????


      or am I still waiting? Also did PS5 just win the hardware game?

      • reply
        May 13, 2020 11:29 PM

        No, not really. This isn't a Horse Armor moment.
        It is going to allow devs to make great looking games with far less effort, which hopefully means more focus on developing good gameplay, AI , etc to go along with that.

      • reply
        May 13, 2020 11:40 PM

        itll be a bigger leap from ps3 to ps4 i think. itll be different to play a game that doesnt have load times

    • reply
      May 16, 2020 6:29 PM

      sp, at the end of the video, where you see the horizon, she says, the portal, its open. So its only geometry up the portal, (blue round teleporter thing) and after that, its a sky box?

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