Carmack: Rage mod tools coming 'real soon'

Rage has been a frustrating topic for id's John Carmack. The game released on PC in late 2011 with plenty of problems, then he apologized to QuakeCon attendees this year for how the game performed. Now, with a heavy sigh, he has said the long-awaited Rage tools should be released "real soon now."

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Rage has been a frustrating topic for id's John Carmack. The game released on PC in late 2011 with plenty of problems, then he apologized to QuakeCon attendees this year for how the game performed. Now, with a heavy sigh, he has said the long-awaited Rage tools should be released "real soon now."

Carmack tweeted that work on Doom 3 BFG pushed the tools to the back burner again. He obviously wasn't happy about the situation, adding: "I think we have made poor decisions on this all year."

The tools were supposed to have been released soon after the game came out, but numerous reasons have kept the tools on the shelf. Carmack had tweeted back in June that they were in final testing.

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  • reply
    October 25, 2012 6:45 AM

    John Keefer posted a new article, Carmack: Rage mod tools coming 'real soon'.

    Rage has been a frustrating topic for id's John Carmack. The game released on PC in late 2011 with plenty of problems, then he apologized to QuakeCon attendees this year for how the game performed. Now, with a heavy sigh, he has said the long-awaited Rage tools should be released "real soon now."

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      October 25, 2012 7:02 AM

      Better late than never?

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        October 25, 2012 7:32 AM

        id's record for PC gamers has been very poor, lately. Valve has easily cemented themselves as one of the most PC-friendly gaming companies.

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          October 25, 2012 9:02 AM

          And that's sad, considering that Valve got their start by licensing the Quake 1 engine.

          Game developers change over time, yes, but as I said years ago, Hollenshead and Willits had the reins of Id over the past 5 years, and led the company astray. It's to the point where Carmack's no longer afraid to Tweet his displeasure with leadership.

          I still imagine 4 years of Willits running around the studio with a steel ruler, smashing the hand of anyone who dared to playtest with a mouse instead of a controller. That and completely abandoning engine licensing; there aren't even any Bethesda-published licensees if we don't count Prey 2. At this point, what is the point of Id Software's existence? Todd Hollenshead and Bethesda need to answer that question soon.

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            October 27, 2012 1:32 AM

            Engine Licensing is not something Carmack was fond of. Zenimax proposed it and id accepted to not bother with licensing anymore.

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          October 25, 2012 10:15 AM

          I agree with that. I use to love id Software, they have changed quite a bit and imo, not the same company as they use to be.

          Valve is superior!

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          October 25, 2012 1:41 PM

          I mean taking 6 years to release a game without mod tools and plenty of problems, then license out one of your best titles like wolf and quake to other publishers, I mean what the hell happened to this company? The last great game they produced was arguably quake 3, which didn't even have a single player.

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      October 25, 2012 7:24 AM

      Why have they not made a add on / expansion for Rage?

      Actually how come id does not really make anything new, Rage is it? Sure they just put out Doom3 BFG but that does not really count.

      When will John Carmack actually does something in DX11(well in his case the OpenGL equivalent)?

      Does id seem stale to Shack and their glory days are long gone? Thoughts?

      • gmd
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        October 25, 2012 7:34 AM

        they won't even release any doom 4 info, RIP ID

        • gmd
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          October 25, 2012 7:34 AM

          bethesda lied, id died

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            October 25, 2012 7:58 AM

            :( sad days. gmd btw if no Doom 4 info has you down you should check out Painkiller Hell & Damnation(out on the 30th) feels just like Painkiller and runs on UE3 --> http://store.steampowered.com/app/214870/ sure its not Doom but the beta felt and looked good and should fill a bit of a void.

            Also for a bit more sci-fi flavor you can never go wrong with Hard Reset(Extended Edition out now) when feeling down its still probably my favorite FPS along side BL2. (you probably have both but if not)

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              October 25, 2012 7:59 AM

              How's the co-op H&D? Full campaign?

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                October 25, 2012 8:17 AM

                Never tried it but I would think it be rad, its UE3 so they have real good MP code.

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          October 25, 2012 7:51 AM

          I know this pisses me off as well :( , its not right.

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        October 25, 2012 7:38 AM

        Considering some of Carmack previous comments about getting tired of the engine arms race, his piles of money to burn on rockets (pun?) and how stale the fps genre has been getting (my own view, but I don't play as many fps much any more these days), and his growing interest in mobile I'm just glad he's still tinkering with engine tech at all.

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          October 25, 2012 9:07 AM

          I agree that the FPS genre has stagnated. If you're sick of Call of Duty clones and don't like Halo, it's a barren landscape, aside from indie stuff. I'm having fun with Brutal Doom, and will probably play some Serious Sam 3: BFE, but some developer needs to step up and do something besides Dudebro Military Cheevo-Farm 7: Starter Map Pack.

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            October 25, 2012 9:25 AM

            To be honest I don't know that there is still much that can be done with the genre. FPS games have been done to death. Like you I hate br0 shooters and am fond of older games but I don't see them revisiting that style of gameplay anytime soon. I think on some level the industry needs to take a break from shooters (which obviously won't happen) and come back later with some fresh eyes.

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              October 25, 2012 10:54 AM

              I think you're right that the genre needs a rest. Maybe in a few years come back with something deliciously retro, sort of the FPS answer to Double Dragon Neon. Not to say over the top 80s, just something that isn't afraid to be fun and not necessarily serious business.

              I've recently been replaying Quake 4 and find it to be a lot better then people gave it credit for when it was released. I'm kind of curious what you would get if you were to combine the aesthetic and set pieces of Quake 4 with the set pieces and relentless, easy to kill enemies of Serious Sam. It'd probably be sort of a FPS Contra or Smash TV, which could be fun.

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            October 25, 2012 10:41 AM

            DX:HR, Dishonored, Bioshock Infinite come to mind as recent or near releases doing new things

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              October 25, 2012 3:54 PM

              not as frequently done things

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                October 25, 2012 5:33 PM

                if your criteria is 'games that have done things literally never done before' you're going to end up with an extremely sparse list in every genre across entire decades

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              October 25, 2012 5:30 PM

              DX:HR and Dishonored, I would put into their own subgenres. DX:HR is heavy on story and branching dialogue, and Dishonored feels like "Thief Lite" with more options of ways to get out of blown cover (which I really like, though I find myself reloading frequently to say, "No; come on, let's see if we can pull it off; let's try it again.").

              What I'd like to see is an FPS that keeps action at the forefront as a mechanic, but does it in a bit of a different way than "ultra-corridor shooter that feels like Time Crisis with movement controls", and has a less cardboard player-character than the typical Call of Duty protagonist. Bioshock Infinite could be that. As much crap as I give Bioshock Infinite for having to shake off Bioshock's demons of bad mousecode, janky animations and unsatisfying weapons, Bioshock Infinite has a chance to strike that chord.

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                October 25, 2012 5:35 PM

                Hard Reset?

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                  October 25, 2012 6:01 PM

                  = epic

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                  October 25, 2012 6:02 PM

                  Hard Reset scratched that "frantic action" itch, much like Serious Sam 3 BFE. I bought it, and played it a number of times, and I like it, but it's easy to burn out on it quickly.

                  It's hard for me to characterize this quickly, but there's a spectrum of gameplay style and pacing, within the FPS genre, balanced along with method of story delivery, as well as how conflicted it may be with other "subgenre mechanics" (RPG elements in single-player, dialogue systems, RTS-esque multiplayer, etc.). I have a fondness for games that are around the part of the spectrum that the original Dooms and Quakes inhabit in terms of gameplay pacing (maybe not quite as fast as a speedrun), as well as stuff like the Half-Life series, Quake 4, and Wolfenstein 2009. In the past 4 years or so, in the PC space, there's been very few games like that, and some of them have been offset by stuff like DRM lock-in, bad storyline delivery getting in the way, or just not being that good. And then you have Call of Duty and Medal of Honor, which comes out every damn year, and is the same damn experience with slightly different storylines, to the point where a subset of players get sick of buying the FPS equivalent of Madden with roster changes.

                  FPSes are expensive games to make, and so those big budgets usually mean a focus toward volume sales, and until recently, toward console volume sales. We're starting to see some interesting stuff come out; DX:HR and Dishonored are nice to see, though they really don't scratch that itch that I have.

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                    October 25, 2012 7:39 PM

                    bulletstorm?

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                    October 25, 2012 10:55 PM

                    Make a post like this about women. "I have very specific tastes and you really don't scratch that itch that I have."

          • reply
            October 25, 2012 7:35 PM

            Not the first time I've seen you snub TF2.

      • reply
        October 25, 2012 7:46 AM

        They made the wrong game with Rage, and demanded that testers use a gamepad. They tried to go pop and it didn't work.

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          October 25, 2012 7:59 AM

          The game worked and was good, they just pulled a Neil Stephenson and forgot how to give it an ending.

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          October 25, 2012 9:19 AM

          The game was of great quality. It just was half as long as it should have been; and needed an ending. The game itself was great.

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            October 25, 2012 2:07 PM

            I think the game took way too long and took up way too much space for what it was. Gearbox pulled off almost two Borderlands games in the time it took id to do this one.

            I think the reason is because they decided that there was a huge premium to put on running on consoles (aka 2005 hardware) at 60fps. Problem was it took too long, the visual quality of the game suffered (the fact that the rocks all look unique from a distance is neat, the fact that many locations look like mud up close is not) and the other things like story took a back seat. Making a AAA game run at 60fps on a 360 is a neat technical feat, the problem is the market didn't care.

            Hopefully id gets it together with regards to PC priorities, mod tools and dedicated servers and we look back on these last few years as a dark era for the PC and move on.

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        October 25, 2012 9:07 AM

        When will John Carmack actually does something in DX11(well in his case the OpenGL equivalent)?

        When consoles support it.

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        October 25, 2012 11:11 PM

        id still has serious badasses working there, but they've been lacking a creative vision for a while, and answering to a big company doesn't help. Everyone says 'bring back Romero', there's a little wisdom in that, but they really need to find the next Romero and give him enough power to actually get something done. The odd's of that happening for Doom4 is slim to nil, they had a chance to raise new IP's and talent with lower risk projects in the mobile dept, but even then they just milked their old IP.

        I am somewhat hopeful for Doom4- they replaced their old writer, they seem to realize what made RAGE good, and they've got a rock solid engine, more mature tools, and the designers hopefully don't have to deal with big tech direction changes.

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      October 25, 2012 7:57 AM

      Its so sad to see how id software has fallen. I love their games but it just seems like the company has become more about new tech than about creating a good game. I really enjoyed parts of Rage, I just wish they included some multiplayer that was not so vehicle focused. Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed the vehicles, but I wanted to do more than just race them in multiplayer.

      There are really a lot of possibilities, I think id just had to get the game out after such a long development cycle they ended up with a game that felt half there. I really wanted to be able to do pvp combat outside of vehicles in that game. I would have loved to do some kind of Rage CTF with foot soldiers and vehicles. That would have been so fun....

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        October 25, 2012 8:06 AM

        It felt like a less charming Borderlands when it came out. I never even tried the multiplayer but it sounded like it would be interesting.

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          October 25, 2012 2:18 PM

          the multiplayer was most certainly not worth the bandwidth even if you already own the game and it isn't installed.

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          October 25, 2012 3:04 PM

          You didn't miss much.

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        October 25, 2012 9:20 AM

        I wouldn't say they've fallen, it's just that the market, consumers, and competition has moved past them.

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        October 25, 2012 1:53 PM

        They haven't fallen, the market has changed. If they had included some MP it'd be as useless as D3 MP was. The whole game would have to be redesigned to be a different thing for that kind of MP you wanted to work. And then it'd still be ignored - remember ET:QW?

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          October 25, 2012 3:00 PM

          Also, their last two games took 5 years each in development, in a vacuum. I loved Doom 3; Rage had a bad case of the "okaybuts". Id can't get themselves stuck on another 5-year megaproject... but isn't that what Doom 4 is? Maybe not anymore.

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            October 25, 2012 3:14 PM

            Agreed... they still have great tech, and they've been trying different things, but if they can't innovate in a faster cycle then their future as a company is not solid.

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              October 25, 2012 6:05 PM

              I think they need to make a 1 year FPS game with Id Tech 5. Do a small fun project, don't paint themselves into a corner gameplay-wise, and release it on Steam / XBLA / PSN.

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                October 25, 2012 7:24 PM

                I agree with this 100%. Make a new Quake style game...look at things like Painkiller and Serious Sam that have been trying to bring back that oldschool id style...and do that but better and with more polish.

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                October 25, 2012 10:53 PM

                That's actually a great idea. If they actually embraced the 'tech demo' reputation, they could do small games that blow the doors off next gen hardware (RAGE was massively impressive in 2007) and then let modders fill in the content.

                The phone stuff scratched that itch for them, but I think they really dropped the ball- id could have been a monster in the mobile space, they were doing it before it was cool and Carmack has a talent for scaleable engines.

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      October 25, 2012 11:35 AM

      The problem with Rage isn't Art or tech, it's design.

      One camp is at war with another camp just 100 yards away, and need YOUR HELP with killing them all! Talk about silly.

      Art and tech were both superior to Borderlands (I don't know why people keep comparing them, one's an actual shooter and the other a pseusdo-fps diablo clone). When I finally played it, it was a decent game, just derivative, lacking in design department.

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      October 25, 2012 1:12 PM

      And what happened to that dlc "Scorchers"?

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      October 25, 2012 1:45 PM

      id Software and Bethesda should work together. I keep thinking of how lackluster the modeling/texturing/animations of the npc's or monsters are in The Elder Scrolls games. That seems to be where id really shines, at least i thought so in Rage. The world was "meh" but the characters were well done.

      Bethesda world + id characters = OMGAWESOME!

      At least that's how I imagine it in my head.

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      October 25, 2012 3:38 PM

      Man, John Carmack is brutally honest about his studio.

      He doesn't seem that happy right now, either.

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        October 25, 2012 3:42 PM

        Makes me wonder if he thinks that BFG should've been released to begin with.

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          October 25, 2012 11:01 PM

          It's more likely he disagrees with Bethesda's pump and dump strategy. He's said before that Zenimax is all about 'swinging for the fences'. They cut their losses instead of putting more time into fixing a game or packaging up mod tools- it happened with BRINK too. At the keynote he mentioned that he really did want to jump straight into RAGE2, which does make a certain kind of sense considering how much assets they have left over, and how good the game was in some parts. There's examples of flawed gems blowing up when properly iterated on.

          I think BFG was a good thing- it does at least serve as marketing for D4. it gave him a chance to play around with the 3D/VR stuff on shipping code, and having tech5 stuff in another shipping game on the consoles will give them another chance to test the network and input code before DOOM4.

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            October 27, 2012 1:37 AM

            Yes indeed, he also menitoned "bethesda mode" - which is the zenimax strategy of being quiet until the very end and letting everything be managed by stupid marketing teams in the meantime. This is the latest reason why Doom4 was not talked at QuakeCon 2012. Pretty bad way of treating community. Ofcourse those RPG fanboys have a busy forum to jabber about nonesene for years.

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      October 25, 2012 11:50 PM

      So can we have a proper non-vehicle multiplayer mod? I could get down with some hardcore DM.

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      October 30, 2012 4:59 AM

      Ok, I'll say it (and probably get shot): Id needs John Romero back. the Johns need to get over
      themselves and each other and give it another go. Since that guy left, the testosterone and the
      soul of the Id games is GONE. Doom3 was ok but felt sterile and commercially correct. The feel
      of doom and quake1 is missing in its entirety. Maybe my opinion is biased by nostalgia, I'll
      admit that. But the later Id titles are, next to being technically impressive, very so-so.
      They need someone that can apply their tech and do something cool with it. I guess I'm not a
      Tim Willits fan.