Morning Discussion

Oh hello there. I didn't see you come in. You've caught me just... never mind. How are you? How's your day? Well then. I can see in your eyes that you're curious about why exactly the kitchen is splattered with ichor. And don't think I don't spot you glancing at the twitching meat-ish hunk peeking out from beneath the tea towel. You're edging away but I honestly wouldn't recommend it. From your sudden pallor, I'd say you're probably concerned that I may have done something a bit silly. You really should sit down. Now. I'd take your coat but I... can't at the moment. It's best you not know. Cup of tea?

How about those Cod Blops, ay?

From The Chatty
  • reply
    November 10, 2010 5:09 AM

    Wedsday Morning Minecraft Thread!
    Patch Day Edition!!!

    It’s patch day! I know a lot of you are disappointed that health and damage haven’t been implemented yet, but I’m happy for the small things are being fixed or added in.

    Multiplayer Servers!
    MercFox1 : shackeast.sytes.net / se.shkn.ws / shackeast.shkn.ws
    Shadowdane : shadowdane.shacknet.nu / sd.shkn.ws / shadowdane.shkn.ws
    Chicken Fur : 69.169.149.253 / cf.shkn.ws / chickenfur.shkn.ws
    m0rfus (PvP/Mobs on) : morfus.dyndns.org / morfus.shkn.ws
    Haxim (TNT Server) : asplode.dyndns.org / haxim.shkn.ws

    Teamspeak : ts.shackbattles.com:9987

    I’d rather have everything else in the game working properly before putting danger back in the mix.
    Probably because I am a cowardly player who is terrified of the enemies!

    • reply
      November 10, 2010 5:10 AM

      Guides and Utilities

      - Oizomapper! Map your single player or multiplayer levels! By mroizo40
      http://www.digitized-e.com/mroizo/OizoMapper.zip

      - Shackwiki Minecraft page!
      http://shackwiki.com/wiki/Minecraft

      Video Guides!
      - (Series) X's Adventures in Minecraft! Linked by zuff!
      http://tinyurl.com/2ah7sex
      Lots of useful info in here!

      - (Series) Minecraft Minecart Tutorials! Boosters! Track switches! Et cetera!
      http://tinyurl.com/2udl2lt

      - Water Physics Tutorial by Arctic Fox!
      http://www.shacknews.com/laryn.x?id=24127669#itemanchor_24127669

      Written Guides!
      - Beginner’s Guides to Minecraft, originally linked by at0micgarden!
      (Work in Progress) Guide to Alpha: http://www.minecraftforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=17021
      How to Survive Your First Night: http://www.minecraftforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=19065

      Shacker Help!
      - Things I Wish I’d Known, a retrospective by Ebu!
      http://www.shacknews.com/laryn.x?id=23608826#itemanchor_23608826

      - Linkmania! By zuff!
      http://www.shacknews.com/laryn.x?id=23514788#itemanchor_23514788
      http://www.shacknews.com/laryn.x?id=23533536#itemanchor_23533536


      - Ores, and How to Find Them, by Fooldozer and CodeRedBeard!
      http://www.shacknews.com/laryn.x?id=23582115#itemanchor_23582115

      - Multiplayer Tips from BlackCat9
      http://www.shacknews.com/laryn.x?id=23641449#itemanchor_23641449

      - Circle guides! More useful than they sound!
      http://www.agentpothead.com/minecraft/sphere.html linked/hosted by AgentPothead!
      http://www.shackpics.com/files/radii_even_to_100_pgzh2n77iabkgcmee93q.png hosted by Arctic Fox!

      - Beginner’s Guide to Redstone, links by The Grolar Bear!
      http://www.shacknews.com/laryn.x?id=24044649#itemanchor_24044649

      - And some generally useful keys to press!
      F11 - full screen!
      F3 (hold) - CPU/ memory usage bar! Spikes for CPU/ red box for memory, I think!
      F5 - third person mode!

      • reply
        November 10, 2010 5:51 AM

        Maybe you can link that circuit video that was posted the other day (in the subway system sub-thread). I found those very helpful.

    • reply
      November 10, 2010 5:11 AM

      It’s patch day! I know a lot of you are disappointed that health and damage haven’t been implemented yet, but I’m happy for the small things are being fixed or added in.

      <3

      • reply
        November 10, 2010 5:58 AM

        I am such a sissybaby when it comes to combat; it's all screaming and tears even for small things like zombies. I haven't even tried to get into the Nether yet!

        • foo
          reply
          November 10, 2010 5:59 AM

          Come on Nancy, you can do it

          • reply
            November 10, 2010 6:15 AM

            I am a Negative Nancy in that I take so much damage my health slips below zero.

    • reply
      November 10, 2010 5:11 AM

      Hey Dong, didn't you get the memo?

      • reply
        November 10, 2010 5:14 AM

        Uh oh, looks I'm about to reveal how little I know about something relevant!

        • reply
          November 10, 2010 5:16 AM

          You should stop enjoying this now. It's dead, D E D. Your patch-ridden virus-infected facebook machine is just not the place for enjoyment!

          • reply
            November 10, 2010 5:24 AM

            But I don't have enough money to buy a real machine!
            notebook gaming like I'm fresh out of high school

            • reply
              November 10, 2010 5:26 AM

              It's fine, you already have a console so you can play all the good games anyways.

              • reply
                November 10, 2010 5:27 AM

                Good games like....Kinect!

                • reply
                  November 10, 2010 5:29 AM

                  A housemate who works at EB Games is going to buy a Kinect with his next paycheck. I'm looking forward to it with a mix of anticipation and bald fear!

              • reply
                November 10, 2010 5:29 AM

                Generic Shooter 2010-2 here I come!
                I was perversely proud to see out of all my steam friends only 4 picked this up. I think we're pretty done with the franchise on the PC side.

    • reply
      November 10, 2010 5:15 AM

      Oh hey look at this instead!

      TheBigB: Hey, will there be a story-line? Will there be quests? Will there be support for mods? Is it true Minecraft made you a millionaire?
      http://twitter.com/TheBigB/status/2066328420614145

      Notch: yes to all questions
      http://twitter.com/notch/status/2068667818840064

    • reply
      November 10, 2010 5:23 AM

      Hey Dong, you didn't fuck up the date today. Made you look. ;)

      • reply
        November 10, 2010 5:32 AM

        The fear that these posts send shooting through my spine is better than coffee for waking me up.

    • reply
      November 10, 2010 5:25 AM

      Which shacker is this?

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sl36SsszqpY

      (from Joystiq)

    • reply
      November 10, 2010 6:58 AM

      Notch is just learning about lag compensation it seems.

      @notch Markus Persson
      Hmph, I hate stumbling blocks like this. Turns out controlling the boat is really difficult to implement well because of latency.

      hufterkruk
      @notch can't it be controlled the same way as player movement?

      @notch Markus Persson
      @hufterkruk Yes, but because of the latency, I either have to move the boat motion client side (LOTS of extra code for all future vehicles) or do some really clever prediction. Hmm

      bporgn
      @notch Most multiplayer games have to implement movement prediction like that. Didn't you already do this for player movement?

      @notch Markus Persson
      @bporgn i did, yes.. But I'm trying to avoid it for vehicles for some reason


      I'm very tempted to send him http://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Source_Multiplayer_Networking


      • reply
        November 10, 2010 7:10 AM

        Do it. Right now. Not even kidding. If Minecraft had the "feel" of Source games in that regards, it would be a huge improvement.

        • reply
          November 10, 2010 7:14 AM

          seriously. he needs all the help he can get.

        • reply
          November 10, 2010 7:17 AM

          tweeted :P I doubt he'll read it though, dude must get about 3000 @replies a day

      • reply
        November 10, 2010 7:17 AM

        Quakeworld all over again

        • reply
          November 10, 2010 8:42 AM

          That's actually the first thing which comes to my mind when I hear prediction with network code.. because that was the first time I ever heard of it. (Back when I had too much time on my hands and read Carmacks work log every day).

      • reply
        November 10, 2010 7:24 AM

        notch is so cute when he learns things that everybody else knows already

        • reply
          November 10, 2010 7:26 AM

          dogpile time!!

        • reply
          November 10, 2010 10:11 AM

          seriously? we talked about this..why are you so arrogant, or at the very least, look down on Notch every single time something is posted about his code?

          • reply
            November 10, 2010 11:29 AM

            you have to admit it's pretty comical for notch to think he could implement this with no client-side prediction whatsoever

            • reply
              November 10, 2010 11:31 AM

              and admittedly i was being snarky because we know notch knows about client-side prediction, since he does it for character movement already -- he didn't really learn about it just now -- so there's no reason he should've thought he could get away with not having it for boats. and yet he already promised that server-side boats would be working for the update. he's still promising things without realizing he can't deliver

            • reply
              November 10, 2010 11:35 AM

              But if you read all the tweets he admitted that there already is prediction in the game for the movement of the main character... so it's not like he never heard of it before. There is just something about the boats which is more complicated (I guess.. I don't know). Either way though, it does seem like this game will turn out to be his master's thesis in game programming. He does seem to be learning as he goes... he does seem like a clever guy though and he eventually gets the stuff right once puts his mind to it.

              • reply
                November 10, 2010 11:38 AM

                Honestly it sounds like he is writing different prediction code for every movement instance, instead of going whole hog and putting in some low-level lag compensation. This is totally supposition based on his tweets though

        • reply
          November 10, 2010 12:38 PM

          And yet, he managed to sell millions of copies while you're just being snarky about it on the Shack.

          • reply
            November 10, 2010 12:39 PM

            sup ride-my-rocket how ur non-sequiturs and factual falsehoods

            • reply
              November 10, 2010 1:38 PM

              fine how r urs?

              Seriously, though, why you throw chip? Notch is a programmer who isn't John Carmack, he has a good idea with a lot of potential and he's doing what he can to find his way.

              • reply
                November 10, 2010 1:41 PM

                answer: he's doing some things in such a back-asswards way, that it makes the programmers in the audience wonder if we'll ever see things like damage in SMP.

                • reply
                  November 10, 2010 1:46 PM

                  He's still a company of one programmer, right? At some point he'll probably realize he needs help to get MP squared away this century and hire somebody to help out with netcode issues, among other things.

                  • reply
                    November 10, 2010 1:48 PM

                    I believe there are 6 people, including Notch himself, employed at Mojang now. He hired another programmer... to work on another game. He hired a web guy who will "help out" on Minecraft, to the extent that a web guy can help out on a multiplayer 3D Java game. He has not hired a full-time Minecraft programmer, nor has he given any indication that he's looking to do so. He seems pretty sure he can handle it by himself, which is a big mistake IMO.

                    • reply
                      November 10, 2010 8:55 PM

                      I can't blame him if he tries to do it himself, especially if folks have already plunked down their cash the product he's already delivered.

      • reply
        November 10, 2010 8:34 AM

        yeah that doesn't bode well for "carts are going to work today!"

      • Zek
        reply
        November 10, 2010 8:52 AM

        "* added (after lots of work) the ability to steer server-side boats"

        can you fucking believe it took this guy almost one entire day to do this, i mean seriously, it's like i'm playing baby's first video game

        • reply
          November 10, 2010 9:12 AM

          How's that "projecting your insecurities onto me" thing working out for you?

          • Zek
            reply
            November 10, 2010 9:15 AM

            i was going to respond to electroly but i didn't want to encourage him

            • reply
              November 10, 2010 9:36 AM

              honestly, if Notch is having trouble with boats, we're in for a long-ass wait before we get server-side damage in MP

              • Zek
                reply
                November 10, 2010 9:59 AM

                It's basically the same thing, I imagine the difficult part is the hit validation for attacks. I think he could pretty easily add environmental damage if he wanted to.

        • reply
          November 10, 2010 9:21 AM

          I really don't get this additude... this is the guy's first mp game basically. I could understand if he had a team of programmers working on this.

          Give the guy a fucking break!

          • reply
            November 10, 2010 9:23 AM

            1) Zek is clearly being sarcastic
            2) if this was meant to be directed towards me, my post was actually meant in a constructive manner. I'd rather Notch learn about how other people do netcode, than for him to make all the same mistakes himself.

            • reply
              November 10, 2010 9:26 AM

              1) T-rex
              2) if it were up to me a T-rex would gobble up players that were found griefing just as they were banned

          • reply
            November 10, 2010 9:25 AM

            It isn't his first MP game. He made an MMO before this.

            • reply
              November 10, 2010 9:25 AM

              http://www.wurmonline.com/

              • foo
                reply
                November 10, 2010 9:28 AM

                Let's play this instead

                • reply
                  November 10, 2010 11:04 AM

                  I tried to play Wurm Online once and it took me a month to realize that I still didn't know what the fuck I was doing.

                  • reply
                    November 10, 2010 11:32 AM

                    i couldn't get it working. i really tried. two different machines, and i updated my java install for it. on my mac i can log in but then it just locks my whole computer once you get into the world, before you can even move around. on my PC it just crashed to desktop immediately

      • reply
        November 10, 2010 12:06 PM

        Tribes 1 netcode pl0x.

    • reply
      November 10, 2010 7:30 AM

      I will updating sometime this afternoon.

    • reply
      November 10, 2010 7:32 AM

      Check your freaking mail, mods! THERE'S BUSINESS AFOOT!

      • reply
        November 10, 2010 7:40 AM

        Please no server reset

        • reply
          November 10, 2010 7:42 AM

          Its not about that, don't worry lil' buddy!

          • reply
            November 10, 2010 7:48 AM

            Yes I accept my new MOD position and will serve with honor.

      • foo
        reply
        November 10, 2010 7:56 AM

        I see nothing new? Or is this about what you and I worked on last night?

        • reply
          November 10, 2010 8:01 AM

          What we worked on last night. Hey can you knock the blocks value down to something lower?

    • reply
      November 10, 2010 8:25 AM

      * added “no-animals” setting. if true, animals will immediately vanish

    • reply
      November 10, 2010 8:26 AM

      Looks like a pretty good patch.

      • reply
        November 10, 2010 8:28 AM

        Agreed, great patch. Looks real easy to install and configure texture packs too. Win!

        • reply
          November 10, 2010 8:38 AM

          It's also important to note that the new menu item is "Mods and Texture Packs".

    • reply
      November 10, 2010 8:28 AM

      ITS OUT

    • reply
      November 10, 2010 8:29 AM

      Is the patch out yet?

    • reply
      November 10, 2010 8:36 AM

      * zombie pigs eventually forgives

      what the hell does that mean?

      • reply
        November 10, 2010 8:36 AM

        If you run away long enough after having aggro'd them, they'll stop chasing.

        • Zek
          reply
          November 10, 2010 8:37 AM

          I doubt you can survive long enough for that to happen, more likely it will be after you leave for a while.

      • reply
        November 10, 2010 8:37 AM

        probably that if you piss them off they eventually forgive you and don't stay aggro forever? fucking words

      • reply
        November 10, 2010 8:37 AM

        if you agro the zombie pig men in hell they will fuck your shit up. He made it so that they will forgive you after a while.

        • reply
          November 10, 2010 8:38 AM

          interesting. i haven't been to the netherworld yet so this was really confusing to me.

          • reply
            November 10, 2010 8:39 AM

            i haven't either, but i did watch a video (and stay in a Holiday Inn Express)

          • reply
            November 10, 2010 8:51 AM

            The biggest problem with them before was if you accidentally hit one of them, ALL of them would aggro and immediately chase after you, and since they're about as fast as you are, that means you are almost guarenteed to die. Then if you respawn and enter the portal, the moment you pop to the nether world again, they would swarm you if they're nearby, which makes it impossible to get out of the portal.

    • reply
      November 10, 2010 8:44 AM

      sweet. applying texture pack through built in interface crashed game and it crashes when it is restarted too :(

      • reply
        November 10, 2010 8:45 AM

        Delete the .minecraft BIN folder, probably. Then it'll redownload the game files.

        • reply
          November 10, 2010 8:49 AM

          yeah since the settings aren't stored there that wouldn't do much good. Just remove the skin:blah line in options.txt

          • reply
            November 10, 2010 9:08 AM

            I can't get the Zelda texture pack to work. It comes as a rar but I repackaged it as a zip and it crashes when I click on it.

            • reply
              November 10, 2010 11:00 AM

              So far I've done browncraft, zelda, doku's RPG pack through the interface. Worked for me after I repackaged them into new ZIPs.

              • reply
                November 10, 2010 11:07 AM

                what about 32x32 packs?

                • reply
                  November 10, 2010 11:25 AM

                  The RPG one is 32x32 and I didn't have an issue (besides that fact that it runs a bit too slow on my work laptop here).

                  • reply
                    November 10, 2010 11:40 AM

                    Did you run the HD Texture fix program? Does your water/lava animate properly?

                    • reply
                      November 10, 2010 11:44 AM

                      No I didn't run the HD texture fix program... but I haven't seen water or lava yet. I'll try it out and let you know.

                    • reply
                      November 10, 2010 11:54 AM

                      Nope. Water looks fine but it doesn't animate at all with the RGP or the browncraft.

                      • reply
                        November 10, 2010 11:55 AM

                        That's what I was afraid of.

                        Manual texture packs for me still :(

                        • reply
                          November 10, 2010 12:01 PM

                          I guess that was part of the reason for him talking about not supporting hi-res texture packs. He doesn't want to be responsible for getting that stuff working correctly.

                • reply
                  November 10, 2010 1:47 PM

                  But Ambient Occlusion doesnt work :(

            • reply
              November 10, 2010 1:29 PM

              i didn't know about the zelda texture pack! exciting

      • reply
        November 10, 2010 10:59 AM

        They all worked for me without issue. I gotta say... it might be a small change but it is really cool to be able to swtich them on the fly like that. It's a really slick way to do it.

    • reply
      November 10, 2010 8:51 AM

      Hey gents, could we get build access for Private_Goatmaster on MercFox's server?

      He's joining Myself (WBechard) and MrJohnson for another quality build project.

      Cheers!

      • reply
        November 10, 2010 8:53 AM

        Also, MercFox's server has an update ready! After this update for the client dropped a few mins ago, can't login, server says old client.

        • foo
          reply
          November 10, 2010 8:59 AM

          I'm working on it, but:

          java.lang.VerifyError: (class: bw, method: run signature: ()V) Incompatible argument to function
          at net.minecraft.server.MinecraftServer.main(SourceFile:480)
          at Main.main(Main.java:29)


          Either Notch fucked up, or hey0 has to upgrade

          • foo
            reply
            November 10, 2010 9:01 AM

            Confirmed it's hey0.

    • reply
      November 10, 2010 8:54 AM

      To install Texture Pack

      Texture packs must be placed in the new texture folder, which seems to only support Zip.

      I was using JohnSmith V4, and it was rared, so I extracted it and made a zip, popped it into the dir, and its detected now.

      Good Luck!

      • reply
        November 10, 2010 8:57 AM

        only zip, and only 16p

      • reply
        November 10, 2010 9:48 AM

        Also, the only thing that should be in the ZIP is the textures. If they're in subfolders within the zip (like painterly is) it won't work and you have to move them.

      • reply
        November 10, 2010 11:01 AM

        That strange thing is that I had some which were zips already.. and they didn't show up in the list until i unzipped them and rezipped them. Haven't figured that one out yet.

      • reply
        November 10, 2010 11:25 AM

        So how do you make them work? All of them are greyed out in the menu. If I try to install a pack the old way, when I run minecraft, it bluescreens after login. I delete the minecraft folder in Roaming and re-download. Now every time I start it, I bluescreen. Thanks notch. It won't even start in the browser.

        • reply
          November 10, 2010 11:30 AM

          That sucks. It might have helped that I just got a new laptop this week so I was playing a freshly installed Minecraft which had never had any textures or modifications before? The first textures I ever used on this laptop was with the new interface. I was impressed how fast it works actually. As soon as you click the entry it changes the whole GUI interface to the one included in the texture pack.

          • reply
            November 10, 2010 11:36 AM

            I must be fucking retarded then. I've tried re-zipping these things every way I can with no luck. I did finally get into my savegame (using IE, lol) to find that it is totally fucked. There are glitches and random blocks everywhere. 4 months of work gone.

            I haven't really got onto Notch's case before, but I'm getting a little miffed. If you can't deliver, don't promise. It fairly obvious he's just learning as he goes along. Please don't give us updates about how you are running into problems and then announce fuck it I add some more shit that no one wanted. And thanks for breaking my older shit while I do it.

    • reply
      November 10, 2010 8:54 AM

      Damnit, black screen crash bug is still in...of course.

    • reply
      November 10, 2010 9:08 AM

      F4 places a Nether Gate in SP now apparently.

      • reply
        November 10, 2010 9:11 AM

        wow it really does....

      • reply
        November 10, 2010 9:14 AM

        lol sounds like someone accidentally left some debug options uncommented...

      • reply
        November 10, 2010 9:16 AM

        Heh, nice.

        That's cool for testing, we can see what happens when a bunch are built (like what might happen on a busy multiplayer server).

      • reply
        November 10, 2010 10:15 AM

        lololol it sure does

      • reply
        November 10, 2010 10:26 AM

        Don't try it on snow. Seems to crash the client.

      • reply
        November 10, 2010 10:30 AM

        Not working for me. Did he fix it already?

        • reply
          November 10, 2010 10:39 AM

          NM, it works. Its a little picky about where it places the gate in relatio to were you are

          • reply
            November 10, 2010 10:47 AM

            LOL. So I went into the Nether, walked as far away as I could. Ended up in front of this ocean of lava. I spawn a portal with this bug and go back to the normal world. Portal got created in the middle of the air above a vast ocean.

      • reply
        November 10, 2010 11:27 AM

        Awesome thanks! This actually allowed me to see the Nether for the first time! Creeyp stuff down there!

      • reply
        November 10, 2010 11:49 AM

        This is the first lame thing in Minecraft :(

      • reply
        November 10, 2010 11:54 AM

        servers are down but ppl are getting an update with this being fixed

    • foo
      reply
      November 10, 2010 9:10 AM

      The 'Open texture pack folder" does nothing in OSX :(

      • reply
        November 10, 2010 9:58 AM

        it's in "/Users/[user]/Library/Application Support/minecraft/texturepacks

    • reply
      November 10, 2010 9:12 AM

      Weeeeee minecarts :D

    • reply
      November 10, 2010 9:14 AM

      list of changes?!

      • reply
        November 10, 2010 9:14 AM

        http://notch.tumblr.com/

      • reply
        November 10, 2010 9:27 AM

        Ok so you can now ride minecarts. However you still cant destroy them, but they remain usable (they dont vibrate like crazy after being hit)
        Boats work better/dont explode on the slightest impact, in fact they seem almost invincible, I ended up in a tree and manage to slowly inch my way back out onto water and carry on. Somehow though later my boat decided to explode but I could pick up the pieces. Again, like the minecarts, I can't destroy the boat myself (server side?)
        Cows and sheep are in, you can hit the wool off sheep but you cant pick it up. There seems to be way more animals again.
        Ah well, time to build a roller coaster!

    • reply
      November 10, 2010 9:14 AM

      Merc still down?

      • foo
        reply
        November 10, 2010 9:16 AM

        Waiting on hey0 to update the mod.

        • reply
          November 10, 2010 9:30 AM

          What are things like without the mod? No /home, no admin controls, etc?

          • reply
            November 10, 2010 9:30 AM

            no builder permission lists too

          • foo
            reply
            November 10, 2010 9:31 AM

            Yep, and no whitelists. I will not start the server without hey0.

            • reply
              November 10, 2010 9:33 AM

              sounds like a good excuse to blow things up before restoring it

              I guess I could wait and get some work done instead though

        • reply
          November 10, 2010 12:07 PM

          Me too!

      • reply
        November 10, 2010 9:57 AM

        TNT is running vanilla for the time being, but you can't spawn TNT so I've got a chest of it near the spawn.

        • reply
          November 10, 2010 1:59 PM

          Blast pit now has the latest version of hmod running, back to spawning massive stacks of TNT!

    • reply
      November 10, 2010 9:34 AM

      Geez, how far away do you have to get for a second overworld portal to make a new portal in the Nether? Out of sight range (normal view)?

    • reply
      November 10, 2010 9:35 AM

      ok fine I will load this up for the first time in ages

      • reply
        November 10, 2010 11:35 AM

        don't bother, most of it is broken =(

        • reply
          November 10, 2010 11:40 AM

          I love how everyone is continually surprised by this. It's like watching a puppy run into a glass door, over and over again

          • reply
            November 10, 2010 11:42 AM

            Well, usually the developer would be smart enough not to release bugged "fixes" and would actually test his work.

            Bahhahahaha who am I kidding, who does that anymore?

          • reply
            November 10, 2010 11:45 AM

            so according to you, when he says "boats and minecarts are fixed" I guess we are supposed to assume that means they are still broken?

            I know you like notch but jesus christ man

            • reply
              November 10, 2010 11:49 AM

              he's not defending notch at all here. he's pointing out how notch chronically overpromises and underdelivers and that people shouldn't be surprised when it happens. he's just saying it in the tactful arctic fox way

              • reply
                November 10, 2010 11:50 AM

                huh. I think you are right. I guess I just read it in the wrong tone. Nevermind then.

            • reply
              November 10, 2010 11:49 AM

              lol how the fuck did you read my post so wrong.

              I'm saying that the day Notch releases an 'update', half the update doesn't work as advertised, and he usually breaks about 5 things outside the update. The day after the update he almost always releases the micro-patch that gets everything back into a semi-working state. This is because he clearly doesn't test his code extensively, he's got 500,000 guinea pigs for that.

              It's been like this for pretty much every patch since I started playing Minecraft.

              • reply
                November 10, 2010 11:51 AM

                yeah i'm fine with being a test subject.

              • reply
                November 10, 2010 11:51 AM

                haha yeah I don't know why I read it like that. PREORDER RETRACTED

              • reply
                November 10, 2010 11:53 AM

                Doesn't excuse his approach to this at all. He brings this all on himself. I got my money's worth already, but current customers (and those making the purchase based on announcements of new features or updates) have a right to be pissed. He needs to get the fuck off Twitter or hire more help. If he didn't hop online and make 6 new promises every week, he could curb some of the "shitstorm".

                • reply
                  November 10, 2010 11:55 AM

                  It's very odd to demand satisfaction when one is a test subject for new features being added to a game.

                  • reply
                    November 10, 2010 11:56 AM

                    i expect alpha test software to be feature complete and bug free

                    • reply
                      November 10, 2010 11:58 AM

                      No, but I expect to still be able to load the game after these shoddy updates.

                      • reply
                        November 10, 2010 12:01 PM

                        I consider the updates as part of the testing as well, since he has to figure out the best method of adding them and limiting the amount of fixes he has to do post-update. However long that takes is up to his learning method.

                        • reply
                          November 10, 2010 12:02 PM

                          also, this thread needs less bitching about updates and shit and more posting cool stories and pictures.

                          • reply
                            November 10, 2010 12:03 PM

                            I would make you guys cool pictures if the game would even start. I could give a fuck about carts and texture packs and animal sounds. I just want to play.

                            • reply
                              November 10, 2010 12:04 PM

                              stories

                              • reply
                                November 10, 2010 12:18 PM

                                So I decided to embark on an epic adventure! I gathered some clothes and packed some supplies and cans of food. I decided that I will need more nourishment, so I steer my Conestoga wagon toward the gas station and load up on beef jerkey, M&Ms, blue Gatorade, and two bottles of Wild Irish Rose. As I left the station, dark clouds formed over the horizon. God opened the heavens and poured down rain the likes of which this world has not often seen. Before I can get back to my mudhut, I must ford this newly formed river. The water is rushing so fast and it has my horses spooked! So I caulk the wagon with a mixture of dirt, chocolate, and my own semen. I load myself and the horses into the wagon and we gently move onto the moving water. As we start to drift downriver, I use my grappling hook to snare a tree on the opposite shore. Once we are back on the sweet, dry land, I re-assmeble the wagon and head back to the homestead. I stable the horses and carry my supplies into my den. I use the handcrank on the floor to power my homemade generator. I use my freshly created electricity to power on my computer! I open my food supplies and start munching. I stop myself for a moment. This is an important journey, possibly the most important I'll ever make. Do I have the drive - the want - the heart to survive in the unknown wilderness? I work myself into a nervous mess. I decided to partake in a personal peace pipe. Ahh, that's better. Mmmmmm, these M&Ms are the best ever. OOOOooooo, even my hair feels good. But I must focus! I place my hand on the mouse and double-click on minecraft.exe ------ Bluescreen - machine is hardlocked! AWWW fuck how did this happen! The horses are going apeshit - lightning strikes the roof - fire everywhere! were all totally fucked - I accidentally spill the Wild Irish Rose on my new G15 - FUUUUUU -

                                Dear diary - this is my last record

                                I've lost the will to live - there is no longer the spirit of great adventure in my soul. I will now take my own life, for Notch has forsaken us all.

                      • reply
                        November 10, 2010 12:06 PM

                        I don't know why he doesn't just release a separate test version of the client for all the new patches and such..

                    • reply
                      November 10, 2010 12:00 PM

                      I don't think people expect that. All people want is for notch to stop saying shit is fixed when it isn't even close to what anyone would consider fixed. It's all pretty much on notch.

          • reply
            November 10, 2010 11:48 AM

            The "lol, it still broken" cuteness time has passed. Time to stop announcing fixes that have yet to be implemented or even tested in the slightest. If he doesn't want folks to be miffed, stop hanging a new carrot in our face every two days.

            • reply
              November 10, 2010 11:53 AM

              I totally agree. But as we've discussed, Notch is

              * a brilliant game designer
              * a decent programmer (some of his code seems brilliant, other places seem WTF daft)
              * A terrible businessman

              The last point is why he keeps tripping over his shoelaces.

              • reply
                November 10, 2010 11:55 AM

                i think it's not so much "a terrible businessman" as "a terrible project manager".

                • reply
                  November 10, 2010 12:07 PM

                  Managing customer expectations is a business thing that Notch is terrible at.

                  • reply
                    November 10, 2010 12:08 PM

                    ^^^ that's what I was referring to, yeah.

              • reply
                November 10, 2010 11:58 AM

                i think things would be 10,000% better if notch were banned from making public promises. it's understandable that this stuff takes time to get right, and in the process a lot of things will be broken, but that doesn't mean he needs to be making outlandish promises and then releasing half-baked shit. i have my opinions about the quality of his code, but i have no doubt he'd get it to work given enough time, even if the design is sub-par. he just needs a manager who is disconnected from the code to set realistic release dates and feature lists

              • reply
                November 10, 2010 11:59 AM

                Maybe after Minecraft is done he can hire a few more programmers and just become a 'designer' and get some talented young people to do the actual coding for him. :)

                • reply
                  November 10, 2010 12:00 PM

                  Like I said, I don't think his coding is the issue, it's managing the expectations of the community where Notch falls down. He need business chops.

                  • reply
                    November 10, 2010 12:02 PM

                    Or a muzzle. :)

                  • reply
                    November 10, 2010 12:03 PM

                    Excatly. Also, my "expectations" aren't things I envision in a perfect Minecraft. My expectations were things the developer explicitly deemed to be expected.

                • reply
                  November 10, 2010 12:01 PM

                  he needs this for minecraft itself. for one thing there's simply too much to be done for one person, and for another thing, he really has bigger things to be worrying about. he should be a high-level ideas guy, able to work on several projects at once (he does have another game planned, and hired someone full-time for the other game, but not anyone full-time for minecraft)

            • reply
              November 10, 2010 12:32 PM

              ITS STILL BETA you all knew that when you bought it, so don't pull the whole 'time has passed' crap.

              • reply
                November 10, 2010 12:38 PM

                Actually its Alpha, and what annoys me is his patches need patches which also need patches, and he announces the fixes before he even gets to work on them and knows how to fix them.

              • reply
                November 10, 2010 12:48 PM

                The "time has passed" was referring to the board's Notch defenders. When someone makes a complaint about one of the bugs, a defender hops on and says "stop bitching - I think the bug adds character to it" or "lol look at the whiners"

                • reply
                  November 10, 2010 12:49 PM

                  you can complain about the bugs, just don't spout garbage like 'notch is so cute when he learns things that everybody else knows already'

                  • reply
                    November 10, 2010 12:50 PM

                    I believe you're looking for electroly

                    • reply
                      November 10, 2010 12:51 PM

                      sup guys

                      • reply
                        November 10, 2010 12:52 PM

                        Hi electroly, I hear that you're a better programmer than Notch, and fuck his Mom on a nightly basis. Confirm/deny

                    • reply
                      November 10, 2010 12:51 PM

                      Also, you can't take that in the joke form it's intended in? It is kind of hilarious watching Notch stumble through this shit

                      • reply
                        November 10, 2010 12:52 PM

                        i would agree if he didn't already have a history of talking down about the guy.

                      • reply
                        November 10, 2010 12:52 PM

                        i think it's pretty hilarious how seriously he takes any perceived jab at notch. if i really hated notch or minecraft i wouldn't even be in this thread

                        • reply
                          November 10, 2010 12:56 PM

                          i honestly don't care that much, but as a developer myself, i feel the need to defend other developers when people dogpile on them for no logical reason.

                          • reply
                            November 10, 2010 12:57 PM

                            but there is a reason?

                          • reply
                            November 10, 2010 12:57 PM

                            and as a developer myself, i don't see how you can say there's "no logical reason" to criticize notch's development practices in minecraft

                            • reply
                              November 10, 2010 1:04 PM

                              but the way you do it, dude, just comes off pretentious rather than constructive.

                              • reply
                                November 10, 2010 1:08 PM

                                and i think you take things too seriously. is there a problem here?

                              • reply
                                November 10, 2010 1:14 PM

                                why should he be constructive? Notch isn't reading this. He's not going to get anything from constructive criticism posted in the chatty

                                • reply
                                  November 10, 2010 1:17 PM

                                  oh he reads them. and when he reads them a single tear roles down his pudgy bearded face. day by day, thread by thread, his soul dies little by little. i just don't want to be someone who contributes to that slow march towards the end.

                          • reply
                            November 10, 2010 12:58 PM

                            I think there's plenty of logical reasons to dogpile on Notch, not least his inability to set/hit deadlines correctly. And I love this damn game.

                          • reply
                            November 10, 2010 1:00 PM

                            I feel there is logic in my reason. He promises new things on an almost daily basis. He pushes out updates that he most certainly hasn't tested. I can live with that - but not when it keeps me from starting an app that had been starting just fine before. As posted above, early on, I didn't really care much about the haphazard way minecraft is getting updated until it borked my ability to even load up SP.

                          • reply
                            November 10, 2010 1:02 PM

                            Announcing fixes that end up not fixing shit is a fully acceptible reason to get shit.

                            Just fucking fix em as you can, and once you have enough fixed roll it together, THEN fucking announce it.

                            • reply
                              November 10, 2010 1:06 PM

                              ^ This. Broken promises lead to bad PR.

                              • reply
                                November 10, 2010 1:09 PM

                                the griping started long before the oct update. anytime the guy missed a secret friday people were up in arms. now anytime he hits a deadline but misses something on the list, people gripe. anytime he hits a deadline with all the stuff in, but a bit buggy, people gripe. there is literally nothing he can do without people griping, unless he just gives away the code and forfeits the rights to his game.

                                • reply
                                  November 10, 2010 1:12 PM

                                  there is literally nothing he can do without people griping

                                  This is totally untrue. We are asking for him to make reasonable promises with reasonable deadlines. Don't promise the world, so we don't build up our expectations accordingly. This is not an inherent problem that every software project in the history of software projects has; this is a problem that Notch specifically has.

                                  • reply
                                    November 10, 2010 1:12 PM

                                    And we would rather he miss a deadline completely than release broken shit but superficially hit the date.

                                    • reply
                                      November 10, 2010 1:15 PM

                                      you might, but what about the guys who orchestrated the DNS attacks on him for NOT doing weekly updates? The guy is getting flanked on all sides.

                                      • reply
                                        November 10, 2010 1:16 PM

                                        How can I speak for a bunch of asshats who do DDOS attacks? That wasn't me and I had nothing to do with it, and I find it childish and unproductive. In this subthread you are talking about me personally. There's a big difference between bullshitting around on a forum and literally attacking the guy's livelihood.

                                      • reply
                                        November 10, 2010 1:16 PM

                                        You can't cater for the crazies. They'll always be there. If you're pissing off reasonable people that love your game, you're doing something wrong.

                                        • reply
                                          November 10, 2010 1:19 PM

                                          ^ Once you start catering for the crazies you become Ubisoft's Assassin Creed 2 DRM fiasco.

                                • reply
                                  November 10, 2010 1:18 PM

                                  Hahahah a BIT buggy? BS. Most of his recent updates have broken more then they have fixed. Some even made the game difficult or impossible to play.

                                  He needs to get organized and section off parts of the coding to others. Less stress on him, better results, and a less angered fanbase. Instead he keeps trying to do it alone without testing and then spends the next few days fixing problem that he created.

                                  At the very least he could promise less and do reasonable patches and TEST THEM before releasing them.

                                  THAT is why we are disgruntled.

                                • reply
                                  November 10, 2010 1:30 PM

                                  What deadline has he hit "with all the stuff in" - and when is code that repeatedly causes server/client crashes "a bit buggy"?

                                  "there is literally nothing he can do without people griping" - This part is true. Although I'm not sure I heard anyone bitching about biomes or sunrise/sunset updates.

                            • reply
                              November 10, 2010 1:09 PM

                              ^^^^^^THIS IS ALL WE WANT

                            • Zek
                              reply
                              November 10, 2010 2:06 PM

                              It's not so simple as just "don't release it until it's fixed!" It needs testing and notch isn't equipped to do thorough testing whether he wants to or not. The game is in alpha and his releases are generally stable enough for an alpha. I agree that he should clarify in the changelog that he can't guarantee the fix is final if it's a risky change though.

                              I think once it goes beta/release he should have an opt-in test program to do this stuff.

                              • reply
                                November 10, 2010 2:11 PM

                                This isn't a "thorough testing" thing. This is a "it literally is completely broken and even one brief look will demonstrate this." He knows it's broken, but he releases it anyway.

                              • reply
                                November 10, 2010 2:18 PM

                                lol.....he doesn't need thorough testing to see that these "fixes" don't fix anything. IF there were bugs that only happened some of the time, in certain situations, when certain conditions are met, then fine. But this isn't the case. the shit is broken, completely. It's like he changes some code and just releases it without even booting up the game.

                                • Zek
                                  reply
                                  November 10, 2010 2:22 PM

                                  Can you be more specific? Which bugs are you talking about that would be so obviously broken just by booting up the game?

                                  • reply
                                    November 10, 2010 2:51 PM

                                    His fixes turned non-working things into client crashing things.

                  • reply
                    November 10, 2010 12:55 PM

                    When the fuck did I say that?

                • reply
                  November 10, 2010 2:45 PM

                  Or maybe they understand what Alpha means when dealing with software.

          • reply
            November 10, 2010 1:52 PM

            THIS SUBTHREAD IS SO BIG

            • reply
              November 10, 2010 2:21 PM

              What also amuses me is we do this same dance every patch day

    • reply
      November 10, 2010 9:43 AM

      Are there any tools for the following in single-player:

      1) map-flattener
      2) block spawner

      I have a really good idea for a really crazy megaproject but I'd rather just build and not have to deal with the logistics fucking me around.

      • foo
        reply
        November 10, 2010 9:45 AM

        Creative mode

      • reply
        November 10, 2010 9:49 AM

        1) MCEdit
        2) InvEdit

        • reply
          November 10, 2010 9:49 AM

          Or, yeah, Creative mode

          • reply
            November 10, 2010 10:07 AM

            Any way to use Creative Mode offline, so it's not constrained to a tiny little window?

            • foo
              reply
              November 10, 2010 10:07 AM

              You can grab the corner of the window (lower right) and resize it

    • foo
      reply
      November 10, 2010 9:44 AM

      After some testing of the new server vanilla - boats are terrible to drive now, when you try to get out you get stuck, and if you crash your boat, you crash your client. Minecarts go too fast and lag the server out, and can only be broken with tnt. Atleast I can turn off the goddamned animals though, seriously, those were the most annoying thing in the world. I gladly accept turning boats off to turn animals off too.

      http://forum.hey0.net/showthread.php?tid=922

      Hopefully this isn't true.

    • reply
      November 10, 2010 10:07 AM

      not sure how boats and carts are going to be anything but a mess. Like when you are following someone on foot and he appears to freeze for some seconds then rockets ahead. Picture that happening with the vehicle you are riding in

    • reply
      November 10, 2010 12:06 PM

      Since I'm tired of all the bitching (valid points or not), here's a story from SA User Angry Diplomat

      I remember going on a five-minute boat ride in a straight line over the horizon; my spawn-area house is on a little island near a huge mainland, but I wanted to see what was out over the ocean. It turns out it was mostly little islands, but I caught sight of a small cave in one of them, which was where I stopped. I knew that I was far as hell from my house, but I set up a little shelter and started exploring. Bear in mind this was pre-compasses, so I had had to place torchlit "buoys" made of dirt and stone in the ocean so that I could find my way home.

      I spent the next week, realtime, exploring this "little" cave network. It was so ungodly massive that I'd spend several hours each night exploring new branches and mining them out, and I just kept finding more. There were so many intricately interlaced, unlit tunnels and caverns there that the flow of monsters was almost unlimited; I had to retreat to the surface at least once a night to slaughter and cook up some pigs, and I went through six (!) suits of iron armour due to replacing low-durability pieces for fear of getting killed (this proved to be a good call since I dropped to one heart many times).

      I broke through to the surface three times during this thrilling adventure. Once was on another island; the other two placed me beneath the ocean, flooding small sections of the cave. I decided to leave these areas open so that I could swim up to the surface if I was pursued by too many monsters, and hole up on a nearby island. In all three cases, I took a look around and recognized nothing - I was in completely uncharted territory.

      The thing that really staggered me about this cave network was that easily half of it was along the lava level. Using buckets of water, I turned the lava to obsidian as I explored around. The area was such a vast abyss of inky blackness that I'd be mobbed by literally dozens of slimes of various sizes just about every time I turned around, and tons of monsters of other kinds attacked me as well.

      It all came to a head when a Creeper snuck up on me while I was preparing to solidify some lava in a particularly deep part of the cave. Hearing the telltale SSSSSS, I dodged to one side and narrowly avoided being hurled into the lava, only to hear the blood-freezing TWANG of a skeleton's arrows. At this point I had three hearts left and no food, and I knew that goddamn skeleton would knock me into the lava if I fought him. I decided to forge through a dark, upwardly-angled tunnel and try to rush to the surface.

      What followed was two hours of the tensest exploration I've experienced. I walled off several tunnels for fear of the monsters in them, used up all of my torches and coal, ran out of arrows, and was down to one heart. Playing well past a reasonable bedtime - by this point it was about midnight - I reached the top of a long, upwardly-angled tunnel, and realized that I could hear water. Thinking I was under the ocean, I excitedly began digging upward, but my heart sank when I reached cobblestone. I was clearly under a dungeon.

      Well, there was nothing for it. I steeled myself for a glorious final battle, checked to make sure no monsters were behind me in case I needed to fall back, and readied my pick. I broke through the cobblestone and immediately drew my sword, leaping through the hole to face my doom like a man.

      I had tunneled through the bottom floor of my lighthouse, not fifteen blocks away from the cozy shelter next to my spawn.

      • reply
        November 10, 2010 12:21 PM

        Oh fuck this, Murray - at least I made up my own story!

        • reply
          November 10, 2010 1:08 PM

          i never said anything about the stories having to be your own :D

      • reply
        November 10, 2010 12:24 PM

        That's a nice story. I love the self-narrative within SSP.

      • reply
        November 10, 2010 1:07 PM

        that's a great story

      • reply
        November 10, 2010 1:46 PM

        Amazing story. Love it. Thanks for sharing!

    • reply
      November 10, 2010 12:35 PM

      Wedsday?

    • reply
      November 10, 2010 12:38 PM

      I just downloaded another decent sized patch..

      • foo
        reply
        November 10, 2010 12:42 PM

        Same here, was bigger than the earlier one

    • reply
      November 10, 2010 1:39 PM

      Fixed AO and SimpleMap for 1.2.2
      http://www.mediafire.com/?9cv8uv31ty3d8b7

      • reply
        November 10, 2010 4:18 PM

        Now I only need MCPatcher for my JohnSmith & Doku RPG eyecandy :)

    • reply
      November 10, 2010 1:47 PM

      IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT:


      Duffman8369 finally gave in and got Minecraft!

    • reply
      November 10, 2010 1:55 PM

      My server has been updated. Have fun. Break shit.

    • reply
      November 10, 2010 2:04 PM

      supposedly working hey0: http://forum.hey0.net/showthread.php?tid=923&pid=12139#pid12139

      • reply
        November 10, 2010 2:12 PM

        Don't know if it's the new hey0 or not, but right-clicking without an item or block selected in your inventory crashes the client right now.

        • foo
          reply
          November 10, 2010 2:16 PM

          huh, you're right, it does..

          • foo
            reply
            November 10, 2010 2:17 PM

            2010-11-10 17:16:46 [WARNING] Failed to handle packet: java.lang.NullPointerException
            java.lang.NullPointerException

            • reply
              November 10, 2010 2:55 PM

              yeah, it's definitely hey0, doesn't happen on vanilla.

      • foo
        reply
        November 10, 2010 2:16 PM

        Server is up with this. Seems to work fine.

        • reply
          November 10, 2010 2:32 PM

          I apologize to notch for my hate above. I just had to run the .exe in XP compat mode and it stopped crashing at the Mojang screen. As far as Mercfag1 - it does work. (Empty) Carts DO work. I just rode my coaster for the first time. I was able to give a light push and ride all the way to the end. Warning - DO NOT RIDE THIS SHIT IF YOU GET MOTION SICK - I haven't found a way to lower the cart speed, so some of the track goes really fucking fast.

          Either way - If you want to ride the first coaster on Merfag1 - come to Cornhole and bring some friends!

      • reply
        November 10, 2010 2:42 PM

        yay?

    • reply
      November 10, 2010 2:59 PM

      So I right-clicked without holding a block, while sitting in a minecart. I got disconnected from the server and when I reconnected... this happened:

      http://www.shackpics.com/files/wat_m0vzseyai5a8auukheit.jpg
      http://www.shackpics.com/files/20101110_175637_9xn1anpjsrooh51k7l2l.png

      Meanwhile the minecraft is freaking out.

      • reply
        November 10, 2010 3:02 PM

        I like that your cigarette butt looks like a herpes sore.

        • reply
          November 10, 2010 3:04 PM

          I bet you say that to all the ladies *flicks hair*

      • foo
        reply
        November 10, 2010 3:04 PM

        That's because you crashed - your client never told the server it was going to disconnect. So now you have to wait for the ghost to disconnect.

        There's a hey0 plugin that senses this and kills the old connection. I'll probably add it in later tonignt/tomorrow

    • reply
      November 10, 2010 3:38 PM

      Just updated my server... FYI the LeafDrop plugin doesn't work anymore.

      • reply
        November 10, 2010 3:41 PM

        That's ok, I'm sure notch fixed trees in this last update.

    • reply
      November 10, 2010 4:00 PM

      Getting disconnected form servers anytime i right click to open chests. Happened in MercFox1 and Haxim

      • foo
        reply
        November 10, 2010 4:14 PM

        That's due to the hacked up hey0 that we're currently running

    • reply
      November 10, 2010 4:44 PM

      Seems like client prediction is really bad now. Blocks reappear 2-3 times after destroying them every time, whereas it used to be rare. This is on Merc's, by the way. Need more people helping flatten Hyrule!

      • reply
        November 10, 2010 5:11 PM

        i had some stuff that could be helpful but apparently /spawn is too far to warp for some people ;)