Carmack sorry about performance of Rage on PC

Rage was a mess when it came out on PC in late 2011, and while patches improved the game, it still was frustrating to play. Id Software's John Carmack apologized to QuakeCon attendees on how "badly we handled the game in the PC space."

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Rage was a mess when it came out on PC in late 2011, and while patches improved the game, it was still frustrating to play. id Software's John Carmack apologized to QuakeCon attendees on how "badly we handled the game in the PC space."

As part of his keynote, Carmack said that he was happy with Rage's gameplay, but that the company could have taken more time on things like the checkpoint save system and the weak ending. But he said it was "inexcusable" to release the game on PC when half the users could not play the game because of driver issues. "There's just no way to argue our way out of it."

He said that PC is far better as a platform when it is working right, but PC instability is always an issue when compared to consoles because of driver issues. "It was optimistic naivete. We tried to get the drivers to work the way they were supposed to, but we weren't smart about the fact that most people wouldn't have these drivers if everything had gone right."

He promised the company would do better going forward, even saying there was talk of making a Rage 2 to fix all the issues and do it right, but because of the company's limited resources, it was decided that all the efforts would focus on Doom 4.

Contributing Editor
From The Chatty
  • reply
    August 3, 2012 6:00 AM

    John Keefer posted a new article, Carmack sorry about performance of Rage on PC.

    Rage was a mess when it came out on PC in late 2011, and while patches improved the game, it still was frustrating to play. Id Software's John Carmack apologized to QuakeCon attendees on how "badly we handled the game in the PC space."

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      August 3, 2012 6:02 AM

      So there is Doom 4 - I thought that was canceled?

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        August 3, 2012 6:19 AM

        No one never said it was cancelled.

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      August 3, 2012 6:10 AM

      Every time I hear the words Doom 4 my pants get a little tight.

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      August 3, 2012 6:11 AM

      anyone know where/when the full keynote video will be up?

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      August 3, 2012 6:32 AM

      If he was truly sorry, he'd give folks' money back, not tell them "Trust me...it'll be better the next time you give me $60 for a turd."

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        August 3, 2012 6:42 AM

        Steam did thankfully

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        August 3, 2012 7:04 AM

        you will see keynote and he does say again driver issue was mostly out of their control

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          August 3, 2012 7:31 AM

          If it was so out of their control then why doesn't every other game that gets released have the same issues? Has iD never made a PC game before?

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            August 3, 2012 7:37 AM

            This is not logic, I don't know how you came up with that argument but it's completely useless.

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              August 3, 2012 8:05 AM

              Not really, everyone else (including id in the past) have to contend with the same drivers. iD choose to pursue a technological approach that was problematic, and even decided to release the game knowing about the problems. Even if the drivers were the problem it would have been more classy to make consumers aware of the problem, or delay the product until compatible drivers were available.

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                August 3, 2012 8:33 AM

                To be fair ATI seriously botched their driver release to include old and broken OpenGL drivers, that isn't something id knew about prior to release and wasn't something they could fix.

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                  August 3, 2012 8:51 AM

                  So none of their QA machines ran ATi to see if their drivers were an issue before release?

                  Seems like bad QA then.

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                    August 3, 2012 9:09 AM

                    They were given pre-release drivers and were told they could count on them being made available at launch.

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                    August 3, 2012 9:25 AM

                    Yes that is exactly what happened, congratulations detective.

                    So both NVIDIA and ATI released updated driver packages when Rage came out that were to include updated OpenGL support for the game. ATI's driver package contained a much older OpenGL driver than it was supposed to which caused all sorts of issues with the game for ATI users.

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                      August 3, 2012 11:39 AM

                      Hey, I don't real articles. I just blindly reply to them with knee jerk reactions. None of these so called facts matter :)

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                        August 3, 2012 11:55 AM

                        At the same time id released a game with known issues with older drivers. They have the resources to get that addressed being with Zenimax.

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                        August 3, 2012 1:19 PM

                        believe me i dont say anything im not 100 sure about ... shackdoubters still cant trust me but thats not my problem if we get to the facts

                        never judge a person by just one post or way of response

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                          August 3, 2012 1:53 PM

                          We judge you by your enormous wealth of misinformed, crappy posts

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                August 3, 2012 8:35 AM

                It's logical to assume that if one developer claims to have a legitimate driver issue, then to confirm this is true, every other developer should have the same problem? No, that is not logic.

                And no, they weren't aware of the problems because the driver versions they were using worked fine on their end. And I'm calling bullshit on your claim that their approach was problematic - it works just fine after the patch. Are you saying we shouldn't try new techniques because the road travelled might be bumpy? I'll take the bumpy launch over the same old shit, thanks.

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                  August 3, 2012 2:12 PM

                  Do you work at id? You seem to be suckling their teet pretty fucking hard. I paid 60 bucks for a steaming hot console turd because it was an id product. Last great game they had was quake 3. Doom 3's monster closet was ok but could have had some decent mp tacked on. :/

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        August 3, 2012 7:28 AM

        Yes, because that is totally doable and practical.

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        August 3, 2012 8:51 AM

        oh shut up

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        August 3, 2012 10:16 AM

        Attention everyone in this subthread: it's id - not iD or Id or ID but id. Thank you.

        I feel like this is a PSA that needs to be issued way too much.

        • Ebu legacy 10 years
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          August 3, 2012 11:37 AM

          And it's "id," not "eye-dee"

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          August 3, 2012 1:21 PM

          yeah sometimes i tend to write ID because in my long big walls of text its kind of a eye helpwr to find points in text and all small case its harder to notice

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        August 3, 2012 11:21 AM

        lol

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      August 3, 2012 6:49 AM

      this is why carmack owns.

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      August 3, 2012 7:03 AM

      Not the apology I was looking for. I want them to apologize for the whole game, not some aspect of it.

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        August 3, 2012 7:30 AM

        I think you really should know by now what you're getting if you buy a single-player id Software game. They haven't been relevant in that space for many, many, many years.

        • Ebu legacy 10 years
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          August 3, 2012 11:36 AM

          RIP Romero

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          August 3, 2012 6:40 PM

          single player
          multi player
          is Rage relevant in any of those ?

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            August 4, 2012 8:28 AM

            Nope. Quake 1 was their last relevant sp game. Q3A their last relevant mp game. Q2 was only relevant due to the modding community IMO, but I know some will disagree since the mp was well-liked by some (not me).

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        August 3, 2012 7:35 AM

        Not everyone has a problem with the whole game like you do. Also, he kind of did apologize for that, he was saying that the expectations for rage were closer to Fallout or Borderlands, and that was their error. I don't believe that's true though, because a lot of idiots jump to conclusions - they see a similar art style and environment, or similar features (inventory) and assume all sorts of bullshit. I guess everyone forgot that RAGE was in development long before borderlands was and before Fallout 3 was ever announced.

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          August 3, 2012 8:14 AM

          I more had problems with the shoddy framerate and textures... also no SLI support. wtf :(

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            August 3, 2012 8:41 AM

            I agree that no SLI support was non-sensical, but I'm pretty sure there was an update to support that.

            However I think the textures were fine - while it would have been nice to see some crazy high res textures, there were so many good looking areas that I don't really care about a few pop cans or boxes with low res textures. The framerate was fixed immediately with the new drivers..

            Honestly I think people get a little too hung up on buggy launches. Yeah, it does suck because you paid money and received a product that doesn't work correctly, but as long as those issues are resolved with speed, the developers hardly deserve the stupid things people say about them now, ie. "Carmack should retire!". Just immature responses.

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              August 3, 2012 9:00 AM

              nope SLI is still not supported and I still can't hold 60fps in this game even with GTX680 SLI. It is stutter as hell and nearly unplayable for me! :(

              Not sure if it is a GTX600 problem or the game

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      August 3, 2012 7:04 AM

      Too bad that when this whole shit was happening Carmack was like "RAGE is fine you should use the new drivers" and "We do not see the PC as the leading platform for games" and "hey look at my rocket".
      Their focus on consoles is what caused the issues for RAGE. I understand it from business perspective, but hearing now how he's trying to make amends with PC crowd on quakecon... I'm not buying it. DOOM 4 will be the same story - made for consoles, PC will get a cheap port.
      I still love RAGE and have respect for John, but this is all too little too late, and kinda bullshit too.

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        August 3, 2012 7:27 AM

        Rage wasn't "ported" to the PC, so why would Doom 4 be?

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        August 3, 2012 7:29 AM

        stop holding it that way

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        August 3, 2012 2:38 PM

        I was initially warned when id's lead designer commented that they culled content from 4-5 major zones to 2 so they could better use the 6-8 GB of the 360. I was further warned with Carmack's QuakeCon keynote being about the glory of memory addressing on consoles giving him the freedom he no longer has on PCs. I was lastly warned when id's CEO predicted that PC sales of Rage would be 1/3 to 1/4 of all sales, and had PC testing done with a 360 controller.

        An appropriate apology from Carmack and id for Rage would be a free patch for PC, fixing the majority of engine issues and adding significantly more content, paired with a large and permanent price reduction for PC versions of Rage. An appropriate promise for Doom 4 would be isolating PC testing from console testing, a pre-release demo for PC, and not releasing on PC if they can't make a respectable version.

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      August 3, 2012 7:08 AM

      Can they do Doom right this time? Hordes of monsters, colorful, cartoony yet scary design, good melodic yet evil sounding music, etc. :)

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        August 3, 2012 7:10 AM

        Doom 3 was battling one or two monsters all the time, very little color, slow-moving, realistic monster design, and no music at all. Everything Doom 1 and 2 weren't, pretty much. The new Doom 4 should be fast! Forgot to mention that.

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          August 3, 2012 7:16 AM

          Thanks for telling the truth. Sadly it won't be the right way.

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          August 3, 2012 7:20 AM

          The hell levels in Doom 3 were awesome, because of:
          - no stamina loss
          - lots of monsters
          - tons of guns

          I don't mind having some slow pacing levels, but the majority has to be fast / fun.

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            August 3, 2012 4:23 PM

            They really should've built more than just 1 Hell level. That was by far the best level in that game.

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          August 3, 2012 7:20 AM

          I liked Doom 3 a lot.

          • DM7 legacy 10 years
            reply
            August 3, 2012 7:25 AM

            Me too!

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            August 3, 2012 7:58 AM

            Me too, although it could have been better if they sticked to what they showed in the alpha

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            August 3, 2012 11:39 AM

            I liked Doom 3, but I feel like Dead Space is what it should have been. DS really knocked the space horror thing out of the park, IMO

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            August 3, 2012 2:16 PM

            It was decent, but needed a lot more hell

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            August 3, 2012 5:49 PM

            It was a very good game.

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          August 3, 2012 8:21 AM

          Doom 3 was great and had terrific ambient music! It was minimalistic approach, but very fitting.

          "They took my baby" still gives me chills.

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          August 3, 2012 8:28 AM

          [deleted]

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            August 3, 2012 2:20 PM

            I'm reminded again that you are one of the coolest shackers.

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          August 3, 2012 8:49 AM

          I fucking loved everything about Doom 3 and all I want is a proper sequel.

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          August 3, 2012 4:15 PM

          It amazes me the irony of how often I have to defend Doom 3, considering my anger at the announcement and subsequent excessive whining that they'll 'get it wrong' was so bad it heavily contributed to a 2 year long ban...


          TLDR here is, Doom 3 didn't need lots of monsters, it didn't need music - that shitty bullshit serious sam gameplay has aged and id didn't impliment it rightfully so. Doom 3 got the ATMOSPHERE of Doom 1 (specifically ep1) down to a fucking T. and as far as I'm concerned, Doom was all about atmosphere.
          Doom 3 was good, the only problem is it was so scary I had trouble playing it.

          Also, it STILL looks good maxed out on a PC - god knows how many years later.

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        August 3, 2012 7:57 AM

        Colorful and cartoony !!! Please no, there's Serious Sam if you're looking for such a thing.

        I want Doom 4 to be scary, lots of gore and of course lots of action in a dark world

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        August 3, 2012 9:45 AM

        Where did you get the idea that Doom 1 and 2 were cartoony and colorful?

      • reply
        August 3, 2012 4:21 PM

        So... Serious Sam 3: BFE?

    • reply
      August 3, 2012 8:27 AM

      Apology accepted.

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      August 3, 2012 9:35 AM

      I enjoyed RAGE enough, granted I waited till I could pick up a copy at 20 bucks.

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      August 3, 2012 9:50 AM

      I'm glad he apologized, it does mean something. I think it's also clear that RAGE is a dead end and really not worth the time it takes to play though it. I *love* the engine though, when it's fixed.

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      August 3, 2012 10:07 AM

      I just finished rage on PC picked up in the Steam Sale. At first I kind of dug it. Yeah texture popping was annoying, but man they had good performance and the graphics were awesome. Liked the direction.

      The gameplay was sorta fun for awhile, but man the ending? WTF was that? No lead up, everyhting you did was pointless. Such a shame

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        August 3, 2012 10:15 AM

        They clearly just ran out of time. They built that whole sewer city thing, which should have been a really cool quest hub, but they apparently just didn't have time to add content to it to make it meaningful. You gotta ship sometime I guess.

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          August 3, 2012 10:18 AM

          Yeah good point. The world was amazingly detailed, but still felt cramped. I liked the vehicles myself

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        August 3, 2012 11:00 AM

        Yeah I just got to subway town and I don't know if I feel like finishing it, it's pretty bland honestly.

    • reply
      August 3, 2012 10:13 AM

      [deleted]

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      August 3, 2012 10:26 AM

      Bought the game for $10 on the Steam sale (avoided it in the begining due to the issues on PC). They can apologize but if they really wanted to generate more revenue show a little love (and support) for the PC. I followed this game for years and I would have purchased it within the first week of release.

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      August 3, 2012 11:53 AM

      Was? Still is.

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        August 3, 2012 6:44 PM

        yeah, this is the really weird part

        this game STILL has bugs

        i tried it last week, on what i believe is the latest patched version (it's on Steam afterall) with the latest Nvidia drivers and the texture issues were still there.

        not to mention the game itself is quite bad.

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        August 3, 2012 6:52 PM

        that's ok, he's really sorry and they're thinking about charging you another $60 to "do it right" this time

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      August 3, 2012 2:04 PM

      Sorry for the performance but "was happy with Rage's gameplay".
      Hmmm...OK

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        August 3, 2012 4:45 PM

        If that was qualified with "happy with Rage's FPS mission segments", I'd say "Yeah, it was pretty good", but as a whole, it was like "Fallout 3 Lite With A Dash of Mario Kart". It makes me think that they didn't have many "outside-the-bubble" playtesters testing mock-ups of the whole experience, which should've been possible even with the demo they had in QuakeCon 2009 (a section of the Wasteland big map, with parts between Wellspring and the Shrouded Clan base).

        Back in 2009, when I saw that demo, I thought it was okay in the non-FPS segments, pretty damn good in the FPS mission segment, but I thought it was going to be cleaned up and streamlined a bit. If someone had time-traveled and said, "Hey, it's going to play exactly like that for 8 hours, plus about 4 mandatory annoying cart races", I would've been disappointed.

        I like Rage; it's a bit of a flawed gem, though most of the flaws (car races, dialogue sections, boring economy) get in the way of what I love (FPS missions, buying as much ammo as I want for the fun weapons), and I still sigh at wasted opportunities (no non-vehicular hub world combat; at least throw a couple hordes of mutants running around so I can run over them, or jump out of my buggy, hide behind it for cover, and take down some muties with the assault rifle).

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      August 3, 2012 5:19 PM

      It's unfortunate so many people had problems with Rage, I really liked it and I look forward to seeing more games in that universe and style. I feel I must've lucked out because it ran flawlessly from day 1.

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      August 6, 2012 5:40 AM

      Do a Rage 2 man. Doom had its day and other titles have surpassed it. Doom is the kind of title that serves as good conversation and nostalgia pieces.

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