Morning Discussion
With the final "gold" version now properly out, I played a bit more of the cartoony shooter last night, and was actually able to make some progress without hitting some game-stopping bug. The opening cutscene is so laugh out loud cheesy, it's amazing.
As for the actual gameplay, I'm very much enjoying the part where damn near any object can be grabbed, charged with explosive energy, and used as a grenade. However, I do wish that Matteo wasn't so quick to die. I know I'm not the best gamer, but come on.
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Its sad to see that RE5 isn't drawing them in, I have not thought about a game while not playing it for a long time, probably BioShock was the last game to do this. The pacing is absolutely on par with Valve and Crytek. The truck turret scene chase was exciting, I thought it was one of the most exciting turret sequences in a game. The fact that they found that part difficult, on Co-Op, is ridiculous, maybe that's why they can't enjoy it. I am playing on Veteran and didn't find it difficult. Also, Veteran is the way to play the game, puts in the survival part, which many say is nonexistent. Seriously, having to scramble for items while in a huge battle really builds the tension and puts the survival part into the gameplay, making all ammo and items necessary, meaning every shot is a risk.
Its a great game, lots of hate going around, seems to be the trend for major releases like RE5, Killzone 2, and the like. Try it yourself, download the demo, rent it, just make your own opinion, don't jump on the hate train because its fun like most do.-
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Pretty short and useless impressions, basically saying that the game was too difficult, there are some bugs in co-op not allowing you to switch weapons, and that it was boring. I have to disagree on all of that, I don't know about co-op since I am playing it singleplayer, meaning it even more difficult and I am having a blast. Its too bad, because its basically RE4 with control improvements (strafing), much more on the fly micromanagement (loved managing mine and Sheva's inventory), and less puzzles (which were getting simple and phased out in RE4 anyways). The pacing is great, the set pieces are outstanding, and there is a lot of backstory for RE fans and for new characters like Sheva (over 30 pages just for her). Once again, try it yourself, don't be a sheep.
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I doubt anyone is being a "sheep," we're not ordering people not to play it. We just didn't find it to be an incredible experience.
Also I don't think the gun thing is a bug, I think it's just not a feature that's in the game. Unless we're missing something (and if we are, the UI is really poorly designed), it's just not possible to do in co-op.-
From what I can tell, you CAN swap weapons between the A.I. and yourself (I've heard Chris say "Give me a machine gun!" and have had Sheva give the MP5 to me). I ran into the same issue as you guys did when I played online coop however.
The only reason I see that you can have multiple copies of the same weapon is so that you can have different levels of upgraded weapons for different playthroughs. Which is nice for me, because I'm playing coop with 2 different friends, and I don't want to bring godly upgraded guns into my one friend's game since he's much farther behind than I am with my first friend.-
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Well, from what I can tell, I HAVE NOT been able to give weapons to my friend in online coop, just like Chris was saying.
I suspect the reason though, is because my friend has not found/bought their own copy. I haven't tested it yet, but I'm pretty sure that If he came across his own shotgun, I could give him one later if he sells his or something. Basically like he has to have "earned" the weapon first.-
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I can't see why you would want to do this. All guns except the secret ones are dirt cheap and/or free if you find them. On the fly sub-chapter switching doesn't seem needed. I never even tried it when I beat the game, but I guess I could test it out.
I found having one person handgun/shotgun and the other handgun/rifle made a great combo. Spray and pray weapons seem like a poor choice for accuracy/results reasons. Stun Baton is a must when ammo is scarce.
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No, I am just basically stating the fact that some people here cannot make their own decisions based on experiential play with a game, and instead use impressions from third party sources to create impressions that have no weight. Killzone 2 is a recent example as I said, many have stated they wouldn't play it because of the impressions on IdleThumbs, etc. People here talk so highly how the Shack has no scores in their reviews, and reviews are stupid, yet I see the same bullshit mentality of people basing their opinions on reviews, podcasts, etc. Play a demo, rent it, etc. then make an impression, just don't use other people's opinions as your only guiding force or your own. I may be extreme in saying sheep, but its damn close.
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Sorry that some people do not like your favorite game. I generally do not have time to download every demo for every game much less play every demo for every game to make my own decision. If someone I trust says the game is not that good or just mediocre then there is little to no reason for me to think that I should run out and try the demo when I have other things I need/want to do.
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So, because some people base their purchasing decisions on the feedback of others, you feel this overwhelming personal responsibility to defend the game? I don't understand what would make your opinion any more valid.
I had issues with Killzone 2, specifically the controls. You didn't. You can't convince me I'm wrong. Chris had more issues with Killzone 2 than I did. I don't feel the need to 'correct' him.-
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who is making comments about a game based on what other people have said? the only people's opinions you are bringing into question are the Idle Thumbs guys and they fucking played the game, which is how they formed their opinion on it!
people saying "well so-and-so didn't like the game because of X, Y and Z and those things bug me in games too so fuckit" aren't opinions, it's just justification on why they're not going to bother. people do it all the damned time because there are lots and lots of shitty, shitty games and nobody has time to play them all. by your logic we should just totally ignore reviews and recommendations about games and just rent every single fucking game that resembles a gametype we might enjoy and figure it out from there and very few people have the time or money to do that. it's just not a feasible way to decide if you should buy a game or not.-
Hey look its you sourcing it for someone who was looking for Shack commentary!
http://www.shacknews.com/laryn.x?id=19361860#itemanchor_19361860
Look its someone deciding to purchase a game based on their opinions!
http://www.shacknews.com/laryn.x?id=19359937#itemanchor_19359937
If Remo and Breckon can't explain it to you no one can!
http://www.shacknews.com/laryn.x?id=19322498#itemanchor_19322498
etc. etc. etc. (And this was found on the first half of page one of comment search)
I am no longer defending RE5, its basically the fact that Idle Thumbs is a heavily referenced source here, and its on par with basing a purchase on review scores, which the Shack is always sitting on its high horse, never giving scores. Is it reliable? My impressions from hearing the RE5 impressions is very weak, and maybe it was just not heavily focused upon. I am guilty for not listening to all their podcasts, just like they didn't play the entire game, when basing this opinion. -
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Correct. There is a hidden fourth difficulty. With regards to Chris and Steve's playthrough, getting through the Public Execution scene on Veteran is an EXTREMELY tough task at the beginning of the game, but once you do it's not too bad.
So Nick should have played it on Veteran to get his 3 out of 4 difficulty fix. ;)
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manlyman seems to have an unhealthy obsession with convincing people to like the game. http://www.shacknews.com/search.x?type=comments&terms=RE4&cs_user=manlyman&cs_parentauthor=&s_type=all
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Haha, people hate RE5 here, its a known fact and its been something that I, as someone who has enjoyed the game, must defend because of that. Its not even constructive like this, it was mainly "you can't move and shoot, this game sucks because of it, artificial barriers does not make tension, etc.".
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I actually thought most of my criticisms with the game were pretty constructive: http://www.polycat.net/1701/resident-evil-5/
Really, though, I didn't hate Resident Evil 5, I just found it immensely disappointing as a long-time fan of the series. People like Resident Evil 5 around here way more than anyone liked Far Cry 2. Try making that game your crusade. It's saddening. -
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You really think people like Nick and Chris would "jump on a hate train" because everyone else was doing it?
And that "play it on the hardest difficulty" thing is bullshit. In every game, "Normal" should be the difficulty that provides the most balanced play experience since that's going to be the one that most people play.-
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I agree with you, but at the same time if you're going to complain that the game is too easy and you're not really feeling scared by the infected onslaught, then you probably should select a higher difficulty.
People around here always talk about how lame Left 4 Dead is on Normal difficulty, right? And yet that's the difficulty that "provides the most balanced play experience" based on the fact that it is labeled Normal. So I think the same concept applies here.-
That's absurd. How do you know when a game is too easy? At what point do you figure out that the game is too easy? The first levels of a game are always way easier than anything else in a given game, so you can't use those as a barometer for difficulty. And by the time you're past those levels, do you really want to replay them when you figure out "Hey, this may be too easy!"?
And the gameplay itself isn't even all that easy; the AI partner is the one who really ruins any sense of danger.-
Absurd? I don't agree with that. I guess I like to be challenged in my games, so yes, I do restart the game if it's getting boring because it's too easy. I'm not in a game to race through it, I like to enhance my experience with it as much as possible (which is probably why I have a huge backlog of stuff to play).
In the case of a game like RE4 and RE5, or DMC/Ninja Gaiden/God of War, I find the core mechanics to be really enjoyable, so it doesn't bother me to restart.
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Me and my buddy played through on the highest difficulty first time through. We only died 5 times in a row at ONE spot towards the end of the game. Any other spot we got stuck, it was usually 2 or 3 tries max and we got through. The game even gives you access to a rocket launcher which is basically an "oh shit" weapon that you can use to bypass most sticking points. I honestly think you guys might just suck at Resident Evil 5. =]
Oh, and the inability exchange weapons actually makes a LOT of sense when you realize it would basically allow a person with max upgraded weapons to transfer them over to a friend's account who has just started playing, effectively trivializing the game.-
Well yeah, I mean obviously we don't espouse the belief that this game is impossible to play on Hard. Clearly people have done it--we made reference to people saying it was the proper way to play.
But I don't think we suck THAT much, because Normal was quite easy. We died ONCE on the turret part, and stopped playing there. We didn't stop there because we died a million times, we stopped there because, when we died, we had been playing for a few hours, and that part had been pretty boring, and we just didn't feel like playing more.-
I listened to your guys' original idlethumbs about the first 3 chapters of RE5 and I was quite saddened - almost to the point of not buying the game. But I did anyway, and the co-op campaign has been one of the best gaming experiences I've had in years.
However, it definitely feels like step away from 4, in the same way 4 was a step away from the originals. I'd love to see a return to feel of the originals with the next installment.
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-The review opens saying that this is basically Gears of Resident Evil. While what is said isn't 100% false, I never once took cover when I beat the game. If you haven't played the game, you might get the impression that you're going to be doing Gears stuff a lot, like taking cover, rushing, taking cover, rushing, etc when in fact you don't.
-The review goes on to make 3 major bullet points:
It's the first numbered Resident Evil game to feature cooperative play.
But it sure isn't the first RE game to have co-op. Rather than point out how this is the first numbered RE game to have it, maybe talk about what it adds to the game? Rather than what it removes. Or better yet, both.
It may be the first Resident Evil game that doesn't include a full stage set at night.
How do you define a full stage(All of chapter 1 or is 1-1 ok? Does it matter?)? Is night time the key factor here or dark? There are stages set in pitch black. Odd thing to focus on. Also, now the brightness is an adversary, as sometimes the sun can block out your vision as much as darkness could.
It features zombies that shoot AK-47s.
Or something like an AK, yeah. Not the first game that zombies use weapons. Also the backstory on what Wesker was doing with the various virus' and was pretty sweet, if a bit ambiguous - it sort of describes why some "zombies" do things.
It seems strange to focus on these things so heavily and up front, it makes the reader, again if they haven't played the game, get a visual that just wasn't my experience at all. Maybe I'm just wrong here, but I didn't find any of the above to be the case.
I could go on, but most of it is subjective. The review didn't find the settings to be able to create tension. I did. The review claims there is no surprise in death. I do. Difference of opinion.
I just found the vibe to be focusing on odd elements when it strayed a bit from being subjective. And when you read comments like this: http://www.shacknews.com/laryn.x?id=19421170 you can't help but thing the reviewer is at least a bit biased. I found the story pretty good as far as RE games go, and liked all the scattered info you found along the way with backstory recapping the other games.
I'm not saying RE5 is the best game I've played or anything, but it is one of the best co-op games I've played of this (Wii, 360, PS3) generation, and at least a solid 8/10 overall, in a world where anything loser than a 6/10 is seen in reviews and where lots of 1's and 2's should but never are given out, this is a solid release. Again, in my opinion.
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Just to be clear, the reason why I am defending my position is because of the impressions on the podcast. I have seen many Shackers use IdleThumb's and other sources as their basis for playing a game or not, Killzone 2 being a recent example. I wanted to see what kind of podcast they put on and in what detail.
I never listened to the podcast and decided to see what kind of impressions they give. The impressions, were based on a playthrough that is 1/3 through a game, ignorance to bonus features and extra difficulties, and believing not being able to swap weapons is a bug, I have poor feelings for these impressions as they are misinformed, incomplete, and simply lacking in detail. I want to hear the others to see if this is a recurring theme. Its not really about RE5 but the fact that IdleThumbs is a majorly referenced source here and its quality.
Is a podcast supposed to be detailed?-
I don't know why we should know about the extra difficulty level if we hadn't completed the game yet. What difference does it make to us if it isn't there? It's for people who have beat the game, and we didn't fall into that category of people. I'm simply not going to refrain from ever discussing a game until I've played through the entire thing and checked that I unlocked everything. And I also don't think that, in order to discuss a game conversationally, I should need to have checked up on the internet to make sure I know what happens after I beat it. That's just ridiculous to me.
And we didn't believe the inability to swap weapons was a bug, we (apparently correctly) just thought it wasn't a feature of the game, and disagreed with its lack of inclusion. If we actually called it a bug, I apologize, but I don't think we did.
I also don't know what you mean about "bonus features." Again, if this is something that we unlock or whatever, then I don't feel any responsibility to have known about it.-
Replay value is a big deal for consumers, especially with higher game prices in Canada, and the milking of DLC. Look at the outrage here when Capcom announced the $5 DLC for RE5, not providing information on what is contained in the game gives the impression that its not there, just like it seemed like on the podcast for the extra difficulty. Is looking on the internet really difficult to find out? I always look for what unlocks in a game so I can get those things while playing on my first playthrough.
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I really don't see how that would have fit into our discussion. "So, we played through a while of this game on Normal difficulty, and we had some fun with it but it didn't really blow us away, and we stopped playing after a few hours. But hey, did you guys hear that if we beat the game on a difficulty level we weren't even playing, we get an even harder difficulty level?"
I mean, it just has no relevance to what we were discussing. That is content we never would have seen.
And I don't think I should have to look on the internet to know what to do when I'm playing the first time through. It's fine if other people want to do that, but if something is so important to the enjoyment of the game that you really NEED to find it to have a good time, then it shouldn't be something you need to look on the internet to find out about.
I DO like games to have hidden stuff and things that you might find if you're looking around, but that's completely pointless if you just know where it is anyway. The entire reason that stuff is effective to me in the first place is because I actually find it myself, not because the internet told me where to look. Everyone enjoys games differently, so it's totally cool that you have a different approach, but I'm not going to go start making a checklist of things to mention when I talk about a game on the podcast.
The point of Idle Thumbs is that it's natural discussion between friends (because that's what it actually is for real, there are just microphones running). When I'm talking with my friends about a game, I don't go to make sure I know about all the unlocks or whatever. If someone is looking for a traditional checklist-style review, there are plenty of places to find those, but I don't enjoy reading them or writing them, and we don't consider our podcast impressions to be reviews anyway.-
Fair enough, I have never listened to the podcast and didn't really know what the vibe was and now I do. I am guilty as well for not listening to more to understand that theme. However, the reason why my expectations may be so high is because of the clout that this podcast has on Shack opinion, and given that I formed the impression that it was much more indepth.
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I listen to their podcasts frequently and I enjoy them, but I never let their opinion deter me from trying and liking games they dislike. IMO (disclaimer!) I think their taste seems to be a bit snobby at times (Not every game has to be portal!) but I do like the fact that I sometimes play and like game I would normally not have played w/o hearing their glowing reviews such ad Flower, and others that I cant think of atm. But yeah, I love killzone 2, I liked Assassins creed, and that new 50 cent game, and Ill probably get Res:5 and enjoy that too.
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it's a great podcast, and they are great people (breckon and remo have written here, so they are known, which i think is why you hear about it so frequently. jake's a cool dude, too.)
but i think it's kind of weird that you would listen to only one podcast (or part of it?) and then make an opinion when they have recorded dozens. you seem to be assuming its like some other gaming podcast, instead of basing it on its own merit. and you have limited data -- which seems to be the problem you are saying THEY have -- judging something without a large enough scope of the subject.
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"it's natural discussion between friends (because that's what it actually is for real, there are just microphones running)." That's pretty much exactly why it's one of the two or three podcasts I listen to. Yeah, I disagree w/ some shit you guys are saying, but for the most part I find your guys' observations to fall in line w/ my group's views. It's good so I can have a broader view on what's coming up on the horizon of stuff I would have ordinarily have missed (yeah, I would have made a pass on Far Cry 2 had I not listened to your podcast.) :P
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Given the amount of clout they have here on Shacker's opinions I expected more. Once again, I haven't listened to all the podcasts so maybe they do give some great impressions and details. However, if I knew that people listened and based opinions on games, whether to purchase it or not, on the podcast, which I can quote people on here, I would be more responsible in actually finishing the game or knowing what's included. Remo says that's not what its about, but it seems he's underestimating the power he has here.
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Why does it matter what is a big deal for consumers? The podcast is us talking about what we happen to think about games at that moment. We put it online so that other people can listen in, because we enjoy doing a weekly formalized talk show thing.
We're not giving consumer advice. This isn't our job. We have no expectations other than to just talk about video games. If you glean advice or recommendations or whatever from what we say, than that's all on you. Sometimes we will say "this game is sweet, you guys should buy it," but I don't think we're under any obligation to do anything. We don't have a responsibility to complete a game before talking about it or whatever -- this isn't the GameSpot review or a Consumer Reports safety guide, it's three dudes sitting in a room eating pizza shooting the shit about what they've been doing in a week. -
i think you have to understand that idle thumbs doesn't purport to play through an entire game and report on that. they are talking about their impressions over a whole host of gaming-related shit.
are you pissed because you disagree, or because you think anyone who ever publicizes his or her opinion about something must have the absolute most full and holistic picture of the topic possible? because idle thumbs does a damned fine job of informing you exactly what they have done to form such opinions, and you can do what you will with them.
that i respect ridiculously much. -
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i listen to giant bomb too and make my own decisions. the decisions are still up to you. i don't think they played hawx long enough to give a good impression but i listened to the bomb cast where they actually played it and get a better impression. these podcasts aren't bibles or anything.. use your own judgement with the resources at hand and you'll be fine
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And yet I will listen to a friend's experience with a game and base a decision off of it even though he has roughly the same amount of information on it. wtf is the difference? You want a review, you go read a review. You want an opinion based on some dude's experiences with a game, you listen to a fucking podcast.
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Idle Thumbs is basically just a recorded conversation, not a news broadcast, and is advertised as such. They don't break stories or news there, but they are very informed "industry insiders" or whatever discussing their opinions. There are few people that I think would have more informed opinions, as it is clear these guys love video games and have played their fair share of them.
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Its great to see all the personal attacks throughout the thread, its good to see you have some teeth on you Shackers. Keep up the good work, it was a wonderful time. Ranking up there with our Gaza debates and seeing them nuked from orbit. Interesting that this has not been yanked yet. I guess it may have even gotten Idle Thumbs some extra hits keeping it up high in the thread ranking. It all works out in the end!