Weekend Confirmed 176 - Shadowrun Returns, Bioshock Infinite

By Ozzie Mejia, Aug 02, 2013 3:00pm PDT

This week's Weeeknd Confirmed opens with host Garnett Lee welcoming in "Indie" Jeff Mattas and Nikole Zivalich to briefly discuss Nintendo's recent financials and where the company goes from here. Discussion turns to Shadowrun Returns and Bioshock Infinite's newly-announced DLC offerings. And in the second hour, it's the return of the king. The newly-engaged Jeff Cannata returns from the land of kangaroos and wallabies to tell tales of his time in Australia and go right back to loving to love things. The four-person crew takes a quick look at the state of gaming journalism before sending you into the weekend with a new cornucopia of Finishing Moves.

Weekend Confirmed Ep. 176: 8/2/2013

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Weekend Confirmed comes in four segments to make it easy to listen to in segments or all at once. Here's the timing for this week's episode:

    Show Breakdown:

    Round 1 - 00:00:35 - 00:13:32

    Round 2 - 00:14:32 - 00:56:26

    Round 3 - 00:57:04 - 01:29:08

    Round 4/Finishing Moves - 01:29:57 - 02:08:27

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Weekend Confirmed @WeekendConfirmd

Garnett Lee @GarnettLee

Jeff Cannata @JeffCannata

Jeff Mattas @JeffMattas

Nikole Zivalich @NikoleZ

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Original music in the show by Del Rio. Check out his latest music video, I Brought It Here, featuring cameos from Jeff Cannata and Christian Spicer on YouTube. Get his latest Album, Club Tipsy on iTunes. Check out more, including the Super Mega Worm mix and other mash-ups on his ReverbNation page or Facebook page, and follow him on twitter @delriomusic.

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Comments

  • A few things about the Marcus Beer/Phil Fish discussion bothered me.

    When Ken Levine criticized games media on twitter, Garnett was quick to say that it was bullshit. And then, when pressed with examples of toxic games media, like Marcus, Angry Joe, etc., he engaged in the classic "No true Scotsman" logical fallacy, excluding these counterexamples from his current definition of "games media." But in the same discussion, Garnett claims that he's not a journalist - he's part of enthusiast media. If you're not going to hold yourself to a journalistic standard, how can you exclude these sorts of people, other that it is inconvenient to be grouped with them?

    You can't have it both ways. Saying that you're not a journalist - just enthusiast media when you don't want to be held to a high standard, but then on the other side, try to exclude people from the definition of enthusiast media that don't meet your personal standards.

    Second, you tell Levine that he can't hold games media responsible for audience comments and then, in the same discussion, you cite an audience comment on his tweet in an attempt to undermine his position (the person who said that journalists just want to watch the world burn, or something). You took that comment and attributed its sentiment to Levine's position. That's pretty hypocritical.

    Now that I'm done with that ugliness, let me say that I do think that you, Garnett, are doing a great job at enthusiast media, or whatever you want to call it. You strike a good balance of personal journalistic-esque standards and fan enthusiasm. You seem to take criticism really, really badly, but at least it shows how much you care about what you put out there. Instead of trying to defend the worst of your field, simply outshine them by continuing to do what you do. It would be a better world if when people thought of enthusiast media, they thought of you and Polygon instead of Marcus Beer and his ilk.

    Thread Truncated. Click to see all 6 replies.

      • I know that you hold yourself to a standard and as a fan, I appreciate that. But that doesn't really justify excluding people who don't meet that standard from your group. As an attorney, I hold myself to a high personal standard. But if somebody says to me, "Hey, there are a lot of crooked lawyers," I can say, "in my experience, crooked lawyers are a small minority of the population," But I can't say, "Those people aren't real lawyers because real lawyers aren't crooked," which is what you were saying about Marcus, Angry Joe, and others. You're trying to exclude them from enthusiast media because they're embarrassing, and really not for any other reason I can discern.

        I know that you didn't attribute it directly to Levine. As I said, you attributed its sentiment as being part of the same position that he presented. Which is what you just said here. That is exactly what you said he shouldn't do to you. What you're saying is: "This random person agrees with Levine and said this horrible thing." At the very least, you're tying his opinion to this more extreme opinion and there's also a strong implication on your part that he agrees with this person even there's no objective reason to believe that.

        So, take this hypothetical: you write a negative review of a game in which you say that certain aspects of it "lack polish," and a commenter responds, "Yeah, these designers are a bunch of lazy shits," Later, in a discussion about the game some enthusiast media have this dialog

        Person 1: "Garnett Lee's review is an unfair attack on the developers."
        Person 2: "It's not that bad, I think you're going down the wrong road, here,"
        Person 1: "Really? I want to tell you - one of the very first comments on Garnett's review said that the designers are a bunch of lazy shits."

        Do you not see how completely unfair that is? And this is almost word-for-word what you said, with the specifics changed, of course. That person shares your sentiment that the game "lacks polish," just as Levine's commenter might share his sentiment that some games writers have an influence on the tone of games discussions. But just because they agreed with you does not mean that their opinion that "the designers are a bunch of lazy shits," should be linked to the position that the game lacks polish or that you should be personally tied to that comment.