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id: Rage Content Cut due to Xbox 360 Size Limit (Updated, Denied)

by Nick Breckon, Sep 16, 2008 4:59pm PDT

Related Topics – Rage, FaceBreaker K.O. Party, xbox 360, PlayStation 3, PC

Update: id's Tim Willits has informed Shacknews that the information contained within the 1UP article is inaccurate, with a more detailed explanation available here.

Original Story: id Software lead designer Tim Willits now says that significant game content has been scaled back in all versions of the company's upcoming shooter Rage due to the size restrictions of the Xbox 360's aging DVD format.

While the expansive shooter was initially going to feature multiple wastelands, it now features only two major areas that are split into multiple instances, according to 1UP.

"I wouldn't say the overall story was changed in any way in order to fit on the Xbox 360 version, but how the player experiences Rage's story has been altered," said Willits during a speech at the Austin Game Developers Conference.

id has been critical of Microsoft's royalty rates for extra Xbox 360 discs, leading to the company's decision to cram the game onto two DVDs.

"The PC is limitless in the amount of data you can put on it," added Willits. "The PS3 has about 25GB. But the Xbox 360 roughly has 6 to 8 GB of data. We're hoping we can squeeze the game down to two discs for the 360 version."

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31 Threads | 114 Comments*

#8

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By: nomaad x Show Full Post

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they are publicly trying to bully MS into lowering their rates - kind of interesting, especially if it works.

Sep 16, 2008 5:10pm PDT

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they are publicly trying to bully MS into lowering their rates - kind of interesting, especially if it wo... : nomaad
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- ^^^^ : buzzbat
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  i don't think that was id's intention here...had they announced the PS3 and PC would be longer then the 3... : flasher 907

#108

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By: alalkoolj x Show Full Post

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not really much point in having a ps4 and xbox 720 then since they are both going to be limited limited by each other
also not much point in ps3 over 360 (for games) going by this eh, pay more get the same limits

Sep 17, 2008 2:11am PDT

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not really much point in having a ps4 and xbox 720 then since they are both going to be limited limited b... : alalkoolj
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- piracy ruins this and that yadda yadda, what about the console royalty model holds back gaming innovation : alalkoolj
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  id should have done Rage on PS3/PC exclusive. : Sixcos
  - Yes indeed because they don't want the money that the largest installed base of FPS fans has. Hell they ... : NuMMnUtZ

#23

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By: dlr(2) x Show Full Post

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OK guys, let's release some sort of statement so that when the game tanks we have an excuse. OK, let's go with the 'limited' content and blame MS.

This is BS, why would they (a) generate said content and then (b) limit ALL platforms because one can't handle it.

Sep 16, 2008 5:21pm PDT

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OK guys, let's release some sort of statement so that when the game tanks we have an excuse. OK, let's go... : dlr(2)
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  Because they dont want their major player base to feel like they are getting an inferior version. : zanzares
  - Also, probably, because of the logistics of developing two versions of the game at the same time. : SockMonkeh
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  They're trying to force Microsoft to remove the limit. : ifallible
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    No, they bowed to Microsoft's will and Microsoft has no reason to remove the limit. : zanzares
    - You clearly haven't noticed John Carmack and id's habits lately. If there is any kind of trend, it is th... : doozer667
  - hope your right : dancingpolkabear
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    What limit? Isn't their problem with DVD? : K1Bond007
    - microsoft charges license fees per DVD, so a three DVD game makes it unprofitable for id software : filthysock
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    That's the worst game development style I've ever heard of. Develop a game without first understanding t... : johngloid
    - WOOOOOOOSSSSSSHHHHHH : DewFuel

#97

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By: Hitman05 x Show Full Post

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As both a PC and 360 gamer, I have to say that I'm somewhat irritated by this.

It's just id publicly whining about Microsoft's licensing fees for the 360 rather than a damning comment about how outdated the 360's storage device is. I challenge you to find anyone you know with a BluRay drive in their PC, so it really is the licensing fees they're whining about.

id, you make great makes but honestly, if you want to have your games on the most popular next-gen console (can we please stop calling x360 and PS3 next gen... they've been out for 2-3 years) with the widest audience then you have to pay the costs.

There's no question that BD is the future, but unless this game is hellishly long (that wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing) or it has ridiculous numbers of long 1080p cutscenes, I can't see how it can possibly require more than two 8.5Gb DVD discs. I'm looking at my desk, covered in the latest PC games and not one of them is more than one DVD.

Sep 16, 2008 8:17pm PDT

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As both a PC and 360 gamer, I have to say that I'm somewhat irritated by this. It's just id publicly w... : Hitman05
Thread Truncated. Click to see all 6 replies.

#76

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By: Killrig x Show Full Post

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While I agree with the disappointing size of the DVD on our current consoles, why not option for a multi-disc game? Many games have done this before.

Sep 16, 2008 7:25pm PDT

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While I agree with the disappointing size of the DVD on our current consoles, why not option for a multi-... : Killrig
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  try reading the article again : Korban
  - toggle
    Multi as in more than Dual. : Killrig
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      The licensing fees are per disc, not per title so it would cost them a lot more to have more discs. : freshyk
      
      Interesting. The only issue I considered were the costs of Blu-Ray versus DVD when it comes to pressing t... : Killrig
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      ok... read it ONE more time. this time, really carefully : Korban
      
      Reading is lost on that one. : crazypsycho
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  Agreed. The article states they are sporting 2 discs, which sounds a bit lame when games like Lost Odyss... : monchipeters
  - Lost Odyssey was published by Microsoft Game Studios. : sheff

#3

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By: the_algor x Show Full Post

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Too bad, but if that means a tighter game, that's fine by me.

Sep 16, 2008 5:04pm PDT

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Too bad, but if that means a tighter game, that's fine by me. : the_algor
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  I don't think missing content that was originally intended to be there counts as making it a 'tighter gam... : CasbahBoy
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    Uh, if you have to focus on 2 worlds, instead of 3, then yes it does. : the_algor
    - Or drop art assets... :( : Zolneirz
    - toggle
      lol, nice word choice. Cutting out content doesn't mean they're "focusing on" the content that is left b... : CyCo_PL
      
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      Cutting something equates directly to focusing in on things that are left behind and being able to polish... : the_algor
      
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      Their resources weren't stretched too thin, the target platform is the limiting factor and the sole reaso... : jtthe2nd
      
      oh, like nothing would get cut anyway. they might have cut similar stuff for other reasons later. whet... : kungfusquirrel
  - content is only missing if you know it was supposed to be there. Way more ends up on the proverbial cutti... : kungfusquirrel
- bahahahahaha : Bantis

#71

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By: johngloid x Show Full Post

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Did they just start reading into Microsoft's royalty requirements? Is this the first time they've shipped a 360 game?

This isn't a PC. iD needs to suck it up and take their third party developer lumps like everyone else.

And yes, their goal is noble. But they need to play the game before they think they can change the rules.

Sep 16, 2008 7:15pm PDT

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Did they just start reading into Microsoft's royalty requirements? Is this the first time they've shippe : johngloid
Thread Truncated. Click to see all 3 replies.
- They created THE game. : tripkebab
- Perhaps they didn't know from day one that Rage was going to be OMGWTF huge? Or perhaps they were expecti... : carbontree

#49

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By: steauengeglase x Show Full Post

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So I'm guessing rage will be quickly followed by, Rage: Resurrection of Cut Content.

Sep 16, 2008 6:06pm PDT

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So I'm guessing rage will be quickly followed by, Rage: Resurrection of Cut Content. : steauengeglase
Thread Truncated. Click to see all 2 replies.
- LMAO! ^_^ : monchipeters

#89

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By: freshyk x Show Full Post

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I wonder if he is talking about this as recent major changes to the game, like removing whole wastelands and areas that they've already made, or having to alter their initial design plans before actually doing a lot of the world building. I think they went in knowing the game would have to be scaled down from what they initially hoped to do. I remember sometime in Quakecon 07 someone (it might have been Carmack) mentioned that there were only 2 giant wastelands and each would fit on one DVD.

At the end it's still the 360's media limitation and licensing shit that caused them to cut portions of the game but it's not like they made a whole bunch of shit and were like "durrrr we can't fit this cut it."

Sep 16, 2008 7:58pm PDT

I wonder if he is talking about this as recent major changes to the game, like removing whole wastelands ... : freshyk

#88

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By: Ziz x Show Full Post

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Rage 2: All the stuff you bought Rage for.

Sep 16, 2008 7:57pm PDT

Rage 2: All the stuff you bought Rage for. : Ziz

#53

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By: Fred Garvin x Show Full Post

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I like that Carmack calls companies out. Sometimes they actually change policies because of the criticisms he levels.

Sep 16, 2008 6:25pm PDT

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I like that Carmack calls companies out. Sometimes they actually change policies because of the criticism... : Fred Garvin
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- I like it too, and I like that in general he just calls out problems and stupid things as he sees them. ... : theflux
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  heh agreed, he doesn't look like the type of guy but he certainly has balls and speaks his mind and is tr... : techx4
  - He's got so much money and id is a solid company as well as his rocket science ventures that he doesn't r... : Fred Garvin

#74

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By: tested2 x Show Full Post

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I feel for id. They burst onto the scene with tech advancements but when the industry starting mixing other gameplay elements they just couldn't keep up. I have great respect for carmack and I'm sure the engine rage uses will be technological a step up, I however have no faith in id's ability to create a compelling single player experience.

Sep 16, 2008 7:21pm PDT

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I feel for id. They burst onto the scene with tech advancements but when the industry starting mixing oth... : tested2
Thread Truncated. Click to see all 2 replies.
- This thread is going places. : heartsauce

#61

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By: zehoo x Show Full Post

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lol now I have even less reason to buy this game. Have fun with the 360 market id, I cbf buying crappy ports.

Sep 16, 2008 6:47pm PDT

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lol now I have even less reason to buy this game. Have fun with the 360 market id, I cbf buying crappy po... : zehoo
Thread Truncated. Click to see all 4 replies.
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  its not a port, this is deved all by id on all systems at once, they just got screwed by the license for ... : snowwolf
  - Which means highly compressed textures...................... bad port. : zehoo
- cell block four? : ColoradoCNC

#7

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By: JasonReece x Show Full Post

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That sounds bad but I have doubts about id doing a good job in the first place. Less content is probably a better thing given how long they usually take. I'd much rather have a great 8-10 hour game than a mediocre 15-20 hour game.

Sep 16, 2008 5:09pm PDT

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That sounds bad but I have doubts about id doing a good job in the first place. Less content is probably ... : JasonReece
Thread Truncated. Click to see all 2 replies.
- what would be scaled back is the texture size, they would be using lower quality compressed textures to f... : zehoo

#56

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By: dancingpolkabear x Show Full Post

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Why do they have to scale it back for all versions? Just scale it back for 360. Im a pc gamer and i enjoy having the best of the game. Not having a cut back version of the game.

Sep 16, 2008 6:31pm PDT

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Why do they have to scale it back for all versions? Just scale it back for 360. Im a pc gamer and i enj... : dancingpolkabear
Thread Truncated. Click to see all 2 replies.
- As much as I don't agree with what they're doing, they're console whores now (which is fine, that brings ... : te[R]ror

#67

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By: abjectblitz x Show Full Post

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I sure hope this is just some ploy to force MS to waiver those royalty rates. If not I'm very disappointed, at least give PC gamers the whole thing. I mean WTF, talk about not giving a shit about the core fanbase people who have been loyal for so long.

Sep 16, 2008 7:07pm PDT

I sure hope this is just some ploy to force MS to waiver those royalty rates. If not I'm very disappointe... : abjectblitz

#66

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By: binaryc x Show Full Post

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... and this is the reason I don't like press at developer events

Sep 16, 2008 7:06pm PDT

... and this is the reason I don't like press at developer events : binaryc

#10

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By: Chandler55 x Show Full Post

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hey remember when deus ex 2 was cut up into 64mb level chunks to fit in the xbox ram, boy was it fun loading levels every 10 steps. damn I hate it when pc gamers get gipped. The fact remains though xbox userbase is much bigger and dollars make the decisions.

Sep 16, 2008 5:12pm PDT

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hey remember when deus ex 2 was cut up into 64mb level chunks to fit in the xbox ram, boy was it fun load... : Chandler55
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- That was such an annoying part of the game. Multiple times i just stopped playing the game. Only becaus... : dancingpolkabear

#21

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By: SockMonkeh x Show Full Post

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Ugh, this is why people get worried when PC developers start doing simultaneous console releases.

Sep 16, 2008 5:20pm PDT

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Ugh, this is why people get worried when PC developers start doing simultaneous console releases. : SockMonkeh
Thread Truncated. Click to see all 2 replies.
- Agreed, we're losing more and more pc developers everyday : dancingpolkabear

#40

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By: theflux x Show Full Post

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Seems like Microsoft needs to re-evaluate its policy on multiple disk games. There are still two more years in this console lifecycle. They need to stick with the DVD drive, but games are going to continue to get bigger.

Sep 16, 2008 5:44pm PDT

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Seems like Microsoft needs to re-evaluate its policy on multiple disk games. There are still two more ye... : theflux
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  Ever think Microsoft does it on purpose to limit devs from using all the capacity of the PS3? : zanzares
  - definitely , when you have a shelf full of multiplatform games that take up 3,4 discs, then consumers wil... : Chandler55
  - I don't know if I would say that, but I'm sure it does have to do with public perception of the two conso... : theflux

#54

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By: bigexplosions x Show Full Post

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Why must all of the versions suffer because of the 360's low space?

Sep 16, 2008 6:30pm PDT

Why must all of the versions suffer because of the 360's low space? : bigexplosions

#50

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By: dangerdoggie x Show Full Post

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Lets hear it for DLC?

maybe they can release extra content in $10 microsoft dollar chunks over xbox live?

Sep 16, 2008 6:24pm PDT

Lets hear it for DLC? maybe they can release extra content in $10 microsoft dollar chunks over xbox ... : dangerdoggie

#20

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By: zanzares x Show Full Post

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I honestly wish companies would quit telling us stuff like this. If id had stayed mum about it, we never would have known the difference.

Now when we play Rage, we will be wondering the whole time what was cut, and what other cool experiences we are missing out on and it will taint the entire game.

Same with Fallout 3, we will always be wondering if the drug we are using is as effective as it would have been before Bethesda decided to change their incentives.

Sep 16, 2008 5:19pm PDT

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I honestly wish companies would quit telling us stuff like this. If id had stayed mum about it, we never ... : zanzares
Thread Truncated. Click to see all 10 replies.

#4

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By: the archvile x Show Full Post

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I'd snark at the "only two wastelands" remark, but in my head I'm thinking "only?". I hope they don't throw it out completely; it would be good for some DLC or a boxed expansion. Then again, it may be half-done and ultimately unintegratable into the rest of the game at this point.

I hope that Microsoft eventually buckles under the pressure to lower 3-disc royalty rates, since the PS3 is their only competition for high-detail games. Are there any other multiplatform developers who have expressed anger about the space crunch?

Sep 16, 2008 5:05pm PDT

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I'd snark at the "only two wastelands" remark, but in my head I'm thinking "only?". I hope they don't th... : the archvile
Thread Truncated. Click to see all 2 replies.
- I wonder what a 'wasteland' is? How big? Is there a big transition from one to the other (eg load screens... : dlr(2)

#2

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By: burning eye x Show Full Post

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oh boy... here we go.

Sep 16, 2008 5:04pm PDT

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oh boy... here we go. : burning eye
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  The sad thing is, even as far as these comments will likely degenerate, they'll still be leaps and bounds... : ColoradoCNC
  - In quality, that is. : ColoradoCNC

#30

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By: fluffy64 x Show Full Post

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I don't understand why it should cost more for more disks, so long as people charge the standard XBox360 rate.

I people charged $120 for 2 disks, then that would be another thing because it would be like 2 games in one.

Sep 16, 2008 5:33pm PDT

I don't understand why it should cost more for more disks, so long as people charge the standard XBox360 ... : fluffy64

#28

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By: eonix x Show Full Post

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Perhaps, release that content as DLC on launch day and include it all in the PS3/PC bundle?

Just a thought.

Sep 16, 2008 5:25pm PDT

Perhaps, release that content as DLC on launch day and include it all in the PS3/PC bundle? Just a tho... : eonix

#12

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By: zanzares x Show Full Post

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This doesnt work though as far as sending Microsoft a message. If they made the full experience available on PS3 and PC and a scaled back version on 360, that would send the message. It would also probably hurt id's bottom line. :[

Same with Fallout 3, we all suffer because of the oddball out. :[

Sep 16, 2008 5:13pm PDT

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This doesnt work though as far as sending Microsoft a message. If they made the full experience available... : zanzares
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  "If they made the full experience available on PS3 and PC and a scaled back version on 360, that would se... : rick
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    No. They've changed all 3 to be equal to the scaled back 360 version. : zanzares
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      No they could definitely make the full imagined product if they wanted to, and they have mentioned this b... : BCFire
      
      It's much easier to build one version instead of two, and they dont want people with just an 360 to feel ... : zanzares

#18

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By: Wisp! x Show Full Post

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I doubt this will affect PC or PS3 users much, as they can always release the supposed content as DLC.

Sep 16, 2008 5:18pm PDT

I doubt this will affect PC or PS3 users much, as they can always release the supposed content as DLC. : Wisp!

#1

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By: freshyk x Show Full Post

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Well that sucks.

Sep 16, 2008 5:02pm PDT

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Well that sucks. : freshyk
Thread Truncated. Click to see all 2 replies.
- console'd : flasher 907

#5

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By: Shivawn x Show Full Post

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Erm, I swear they've talked about this one before and they said the differences were in terrain detail. more specifically, they noted that if you looked at rocks, they wouldn't look as uniquely detailed.

I'm kinda wondering why they've released another comment about this issue... they've already made it clear that the 360 doesn't have enough media space that they desire.

Sep 16, 2008 5:07pm PDT

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Erm, I swear they've talked about this one before and they said the differences were in terrain detail. m... : Shivawn
Thread Truncated. Click to see all 2 replies.
- Before it was textures, now its content. : rick

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