20/20 Game Violence Debate

Hey, anyone know where I can get some cybernetic implants so I can be a 1337 hax0r like the dude in System Shock?

can we forget about the gun debate please...its a moot point America is full of Cowboy gun using dumbasses its to late to change that now so we might as well just all watch our backs so we don't get shot and go back to playing our violent games and living a life of sin ...thank you

Grossman is so ignorant of the facts its ridiculous, he says flight simulators teach you to fly.. Maybe if you are sitting in a REAL cockpit and learning to fly, games aren't murder simulators because there is a vast difference between a mouse and an 8 lb shotgun. Here is a paper I just wrote to our local news paper who interviewed him.

Computer Gaming Violence and TodayÂ’s Youth

In the past few years, computer gaming, particularly first-person shooters, has taken the
spotlight as the one of the contributing factors in several shootings at schoolyards across
America. This is indeed tragic, but is computer gaming the scapegoat for poor parenting and
children in need of help?
I am an avid online game player. I play several hours per week online against human opponents,
who are also mostly friends I have met online through gaming. I have even been known to pick
up my computer and meet face to face with these friends at local LANÂ’s (Local Area Networks),
where I can play head to head with other gamers in the same room. I have never seen a fight or
any violence at any of these LANÂ’s. I play games and also sit and talk with others about the
games and strategies. ItÂ’s a very non-violent atmosphere, although certain government officials
would like you to believe otherwise.
David Grossman, the Pulitzer Prize nominated author of the book Stop Teaching Our Kids To Kill
says, “The people who live on these computers are so isolated from reality that they’re able to
convince themselves that their fantasy is reality” (Simpson, 1999). This statement pretty much
sums up the vast ignorance of what the majority of people believe. That statement may be true
for a small amount of individuals, but as a blanket statement itÂ’s completely wrong. I spend an
average of 40-50 hours on the computer per week; eight hours a day at work, then a few hours
at night. To most individuals, it would seem that I would be considered one of ‘those’ who lived
on their computer. I personally have never had the compulsion to act out violently, and am in
fact a very passive person. I simply know right from wrong. “Merely because some of us can
suspend our disbelief and recognize the unreal nature of computer game violence doesnÂ’t mean
that everyone is capable of making that distinction between reality and imagination” (Wilson,
1999). That statement brings up a good point. We canÂ’t blame the whole for the infraction of
one. We should seek help for those individuals who cannot distinguish between reality and
imagination, not blame the manufacturers of the games they are playing.
“The survey, done by the National Institute on Media and the Family, found that 80 percent of
high school kids were familiar with the first-person shooter called ‘Duke Nukem.’ Their parents?
Only five percent had even heard of it” (Simpson, 1999). If parents paid more attention to their
children, we wouldnÂ’t hear of stories as tragic as the Columbine shootings. Although those
tragedies might still occur, we wouldnÂ’t hear of them nearly as often. If you as a parent buy
these games for your children, then you are responsible, not the gaming industry. You as a
parent should also teach your child the difference between right and wrong and fantasy and
reality.
The games in question such as “Quake”, “Doom”, “Duke Nukem” and many others are in the
neighborhood of $45 or more. When I was between the ages of 13-18, that was a lot of money
to come up with, so my parents would have had to have helped me make that purchase. That
shows yet again another opportunity for parental intervention. The above computer games are
also rated “Mature” which is a movie equivalent rating of “R” and is intended for ages 17 and up.
This should send a flag up to parents as this may not be something they want their children to
be playing, and should be discussed openly with the children before purchasing.
Popular society would like us to believe everything is black and white and that we need to put
blame on the easiest and quickest source. This is fine if the blame is put on the correct subject
matter. However, I feel that the media and the majority of people are jumping on the bandwagon
to use the gaming industry as a scapegoat, rather than poor parenting. People should
not view a game, a movie or anything else as being the cause for the behavior of one individual
and that personÂ’s total lack of judgment and morals. Parents are the role models of these
children, not society. Movie stars and entertainers should not be treated as role models. As
children grow older they realize how much they are like their parents. This isnÂ’t because of
heredity, but rather from the fact that the parents acted as role models to the children as they
grew. If parents take time and interest in their childrenÂ’s purchases and discuss the fact and
fiction relationship with video games or movies, then the children will grow up to be the shining
examples of what was instilled in them.
Gaming is simply a form of entertainment. For me, itÂ’s a relaxation technique after a stressful
day. I can play online with some friends and let off some steam and forget about the troubles
back at the office. As Pete Yellen says, “It’s just like playing tag when you’re a kid. You’re just
trying to click on the guy faster than he can click on you. ItÂ’s not about who can kill who. YouÂ’re
just substituting the word ‘kill’ for ‘tag” (Simpson, 1999). This is another brilliant example to
prove the point that gamers are just playing a more advanced form of tag, where we are simply
clicking a mouse and looking at a screen, and nothing more.
These games arenÂ’t training tools of violence, but rather places where people can go to escape
the outside barriers and use their imaginations, skills and strategies. As a society, we need to
stop placing blame on obscure outside sources and instead look inward at family life and morals
of the individuals perpetrating such tragedies like the Columbine shootings. ItÂ’s not what we play
in our free time - itÂ’s how we were raised that affects our daily decisions. In its most basic form
there is still a vast difference between a mouse and an eight pound shotgun. Parents simply
need to take better interest in their childrenÂ’s wants and desires and leave the virtual killing field
to those who it was intended for - those ages seventeen and up.

References
Simpson, Kevin. (1999, November 28). Is it all DOOM & GLOOM? Denver Post, p. A-01
Wilson, Johhn.y (1999, July). Violence and gaming. Computer Gaming World, P. 21

God dammit, i would have been first, but my secretary came and interrupted me. BIATCH!

Whenever somebody wants to blame violence, they all point to video games and movies. Why doesn't anybody blame pro "wrestling"? That's where the tards that can't tell the difference between imagination and reality aggregate. That's where the participants attempt to improve their career by shedding all remnants of sportsmanship and cursing and insulting their opponents at the top of their lungs on public television. I'll tell you why they don't blame pro "wrestling": the bible thumpers who blame video games and movies for violence ARE the ones who can't tell the difference between imagination and reality. I bet if one were to check, you would find that the Bible Belt and the World Wrestling Champion Belt are both wrapped around the same waste.

Everyone is missing the obvious! Todd's office!! Dudes, did it look cool or what? The big 'id' logo poster was killer.

Did I say killer? I meant cool.

Thanks!

-Lex

I don't know about all this murder training crap. Half of the ppl that play quake3 would totally get thier asses kicked if they ever tried to hurt someone. I'll wander into this local lan party place and I know I could waste every wuss in the room. Why? Because I have a 7 years of martial arts experience. Do you ban me because i learned how to kill in martial arts? Every other day for the past couple of years I learned how to kick ppl in the throat, punch ppl's noses into thier brain and no one ever said "I'm sorry sir but you can't play with my son because he will learn to kill." I learned to kill from age 6, and no one ever said anything. If we are going to stop teaching our kids to kill, then we need to do a whole lot more than regulate q3. And about those two bastards at columbine... WHERE THE HELL WERE THE PARENTS? god damn.. doom didn't make those kids killers, they already were and the parents either didn't care enough to know or didn't care enough to do anything about it. They had hoards of guns and pipebombs and the parents never even noticed. The problem is not with violent videogames but with the crumbling americian family. But it is so much easier to point the finger at quake and not see how messed up our kids are becuase of family life.

anyway that was a longer and stupid post than I thought it would be..

smackdaddy

If gamers as so violent then wil does Lt. Col. David Grossman try so hard to piss us off?

BTW, you guys, if you read any of the Grossman interviews on stomped, you would find that hes not really behind the "ban all video games but mario" type thing. That would be the knee-jerk media.

Dont go flaming him, because he's really just trying to make it so younger kids wont be playing these games, which is perfectly reasonable.

No one can mess with my Shoalin style!

Haodoken!!!

Good point!

LOL, I gotta agree. Could you toot your little horn a little louder?

Oh yeah, i beat street fighter today. I think i'll go challenge Jet Li to a fight.

It was easier back when television and video games didn't raise children...imagine...a day when parents! actually raised children. Imagine that...now we have both parents working, getting home late. If media and games are responsible for behavior, parents are even more responsible, because they left their children to be raised by these amoral devices.

If you've learned to use a gun from a FPS, don't forget to aim for their feet. They'll be thrown up in the air 15 feet, disoriented and unable to run for the RA or Megahealth. Pick up to your Lightning gun and shoot them while they're still in the air.

Guns are stupid.
People who think they solve anything are even worse.

what the hell is all this about "not getting enforced"? you're just eating up all the shit moses is feeding you...

AFAIK, ATF has confiscated more illegal handguns in the last 5 years than in the last 50...

Heh, I played enough Street Fighter/Tekken to become a lean mean fighting machine myself, I even noticed in one fight I actually said "Shoyruyuken!!" when I did an uppercut on this one fat bastard. It was kinda cool..hehehe

hmmm I meant 7 years of tae kwon do and 3 years of judo..

Guess what!? I just got down playing the seniors tour on my PC (playing some skins for money) I am going to take it out on the road now, because I should be a great golfer since I am so good at it on the PC, because after all it's a simulator and a teaching device. I am gonna kick some old geezers in golf!! Later on today I am going to pick up a Bazooka at the local Bazooka store because playing in half-life I know that I can click the alternate weapon key and get the laser sighting and I also know there is no kick and all you have to do is pull the trigger. This is gonna be cool.

I say we all get together and go show how aggressive these games make us, lets go show grossman how violent we are on his head.. :)

Help me out guys! I want to be a mass killer, and I know you are all big fans of Quake. After all, who knows more about murder-simulators like Quake than ShugaShackers?

I need to know where I can get and/or learn:

1) guns that are weightless, reload automatically, never jam, automatically aim themselves, and can be fired with a computer mouse.

2) How to run like a cheetah on speed and jump gaps the size of the Grand Canyon.

3) first aid kits that heal you just by walking over them.

4) how to use a rocket launcher to get to hard-to-reach areas without hurting myself.

5) how to carry tons of weapons and equipment without hurting myself, or walking slowly.

6) victims that don't take defensive measures. I just want them to stand there when I start shooting at them!

7) armor. So I can withstand 500 machine gun bullets and several rocket blasts with even feeling it.

8) a good lawyer. So when I go on my rampage, I know I'll have someone ready to blame the games. It would help if this lawyer could get me on talk shows.

9) a ghost-writer, to help me write a factless, groundless book that will just help perpetuate the myths of media-inspired violence. Remember, I don't have to prove it, I just have to say it enough times, and people will believe it.

Thanks in advance!

I find it rather humerous that he says that any parent who thinks that there should not be laws governing tobacco, alcohol or sex is thinking irrationally. Perhaps I am outside of the norm on this, but isn't it a good thing to give your kids the right to make decisions before they turn 18?

If a child is sheltered all of his or her life, what kind of success can the parents expect of them once this child turns 18? The first thing this teen does is rebel. They go out, they smoke, they drink, they get laid. Hey, that's what college life is supposed to be about anyway ;)

If they were exposed to the notion of a concept earlier in life, perhaps there wouldn't be such a need for them to go and rebel. Doom and Quake aren't rebellion for me, they're simply having fun.

And if violence in the media is just a factor in teen-shootings, then why address that? Just because cigarettes cause cancer, does that mean we should ban or regulate matches or lighters? I think not. The environment in a high school often drives kids to the edge. When I was in high school, it tormented me too. Different people act differently until the same situation.

I don't understand... Did Grossman forget what high school was like? Or was he one of the few lucky jocks that enjoyed his time there? I'd love for him to go back as the nerd for four years and tell me that video game and TV violence caused those shootings.

No one does that kind of crime because they're content. And video games don't taunt their players. They don't ridicule and make fun of them. I can think of at least five people in which a 3d game *prevented me* from harming them. I simply envision them in front of the barrel.

I'm insulted at the idea if these regulations had passed years back, I wouldn't have been able to play Doom until about a year ago. I've been playing Wolfenstein 3d since I was 11. I see nothing wrong in that. It's entertainment, and entertainment only. It says nothing about "instruction."

Smoking kills one third of those who continually use it. Good luck accusing video games of making 1/3 of the player base go postal. And ten years from now, I don't think Video Game Violence will be an issue people address.

Throughout all this, keep in mind that many people in the 1950's thought that rock and roll music was the devil.

Hehe .. I love stirring up the gun issue ..... hahaaha.

That is SUCH an easy topic to get people pissing on their keyboards!

oh..#52... yeah ..uh ... those middle-American kids have such easy access to the notorious black market .. nothing like that assault weapon on sale at the local pawn-shop.

(and the baiting continues....)

Its all about the fundamentalist Christians wanting control over what we are aloud to see, touch, feel, and think. Back in the early 80s and late 70s, when Video Games first stared popping up in "arcades", the fundamentalists started screaming "devil".
This country is supposed to be free!

Hey I was on 20/20 last night! cool

* T H I N K O F T H E C H I L D R E N ! ! ! ! *

These organization don't give a shit about facts. They'll do anything to further their agenda. For example:

Then there are the words of the boy's father. As reported by the Associated Press the day after the incident, "The 29-year-old father heard about Tuesday's shooting from a cellmate and 'a cold, sinking feeling came over him because he knew it was his son,' Sheriff Robert J. Pickell said. 'He said [his son] liked to watch the violent movies, the television shows.'"i]

The above is from http://www.parentstv.org/publications/cyberbites/ecyb20000310.html. This is located at the "Parents Telivision Council" homepage. Notice the words "from a cellmate". The kids father is in PRISON. Gee, you think it's possible that the child was exposed to violence...FROM HIS OWN FATHER! And yet they just totally ignore that to further their agenda, which is to blame the media for everything.

Ah dammit. BAKE ME A SHACK 2.0!