DOOM 3 Multiplayer

The one very VERY positive thing about the peer to peer model, is that it will DRASTICALLY cut down on the number of jackasses and cheaters that enjoy ruining other peoples experiences. Peer to peer essentially ensures that a 'server admin' is always present and in the game. Someone is cheating or being a dick, gonzo. I like that.

Q1 and Q2 MP were good cause they were Single Player-oriented games ;)

No weapon balance, weak starting weapon.. this kind of stuff.

Only thing I don't understand. For years carmack makes the "right decision" as he puts it in many interviews. Whether it's going to 3d acceleration only, or using C/C++ primarily etc....Anyone who has been following id interviews knows carmack always likes to move "forward" in some way with a new game (ie: 3d acceleration required). How in the world can he use the words peer to peer with Doom3? He's made a legacy of moving games in a forward direction. I can't possibly think of any reason he'd want to go back to pre 1996 (doom*) style network code that would allow people to join during a session.

Just makes no sense, maybe we missed something?

-The SAME

I must admit my opinion is divided on Doom 3 multiplayer. One one hand, I agree with some who say there are already plenty of DM games online already, and what's the big deal about having one more? Plus, deathmatch's popularity is at a near all-time low, what with the realism trend thats been going on a few years now.

On the other hand I think it's important for Doom 3 to build a strong multiplayer base early on, not just tacked on at some later point, although that would be better than nothing. With a very few exceptions history has shown that unless an online game reaches a critical mass of followers right away, it's doomed to failure in the long term (no pun intended).

I know id is a rather small company with limited resources, so why not use some tech they already have? Why not just take the Quake 3 netcode and everything else they've built with it and use that for Doom 3? It's there already and it's theirs already, why just throw all that away for some oldschool peer-to-peer nonsense when they've already worked hard to make Q3 one of the best pure DM games yet.

It doesn't need to be anything real fancy -which seems like the direction they're going anyway- just a handful of DM/TDM maps and a few CTF maps 'ala Quake 3. In fact, that would probably go a long way towards getting rid of some of the bad taste left behind by Team Arena since along with the main focus of Doom 3's originally intended SP game, the added value of what essentially was Quake 3 would be included with it. Additional funtionality could still be added later, but a little less "bare" of a minimum MP componant should be included from the beginning to reach that critical mass.

Personally I'd much rather have something along those lines than the 4v4-only DM already mentioned.

The graphics aren't all that great. I mean, look at this screenshot:
http://gamespot.com/gamespot/filters/products/screens/0,11105,469881,00.html?page=70

The walls look totally fake, and the lighting just doesn't seem real. Not only that, but the screen doesn't have any flaws in it. I mean, give me a break, it looks nothing like real life! The shadows are too sharp! I thought Doom 3 was going to be able to do soft shadows!

Here's what it sounds like to me.

Okay... remember that the Quake engine (that's one, two and three.. plus all games that use the tech) is a primarily multiplayer engine, correct? Now.. most of all the single player experiences have certain things about them that one gets trying to mold a single player game experience into a multiplayer engine.

Now... when we look at DOOM3, think of it as the opposite way. They're trying to mold a multiplayer game experience into a singleplayer game. They also don't want to sacrifice cool shit in the singleplayer (like the lighting, or the physics engine, or actually having all weapons fire projectiles and not a hacked up hitscan job), so a few whinging 16 year olds on some forum don't bitch excessively.. so they have to limit it, and change how the multiplayer works.

This isn't the Quake engine, folks. It's the DOOM III engine. I'm sure Carmack's in a better position to say what is and isn't viable at the current time for his own game engine, right?

Besides... I'd much rather get the game (and that luscious tech behind it) sooner, with a half-assed multiplayer, and a better multiplayer later down the track, than have to wait for them to do better multiplayer to appease everyone at once.

The only problem I can see with this really is that it will hurt mod makers (well, multiplayer mod makers).

But all in all I have mixed feelings about it. IF DOOM3 multiplayer ends up as a seperate entity it might end up better since DM/multiplayer and singleplayer have different needs...and as we've heard from the Carmack DOOM3 is going to be a slower game (due partially to the single player focus). Perhaps we'll get a different set of physics and faster gameplay for the multiplayer portion if it gets treated as a seperate entity. I actually wouldn't mind to see them get another company to do the multiplayer ala RTCW as a couple people mentioned.

Ok, WHY IN THE NAME OF _____ NOONE ASKED ID, IF THEY GONNA RELEASE A TEST/BETA/DEMO B4 THE ACTUAL RELEASE?

Dear God, please let them include Co-Op.

Personally I'd like Doom3 to worry less about multiplayer and more about making the single player game easily customizable. No q3 engine based game has a single player level making following and that's what I miss most from the scene. How many more versions of the Edge will people make?

I dont see why id doesn't do what Raven does, include a different exec for multiplayer. Sure it might take longer, but it would be worth it. Doom3 is going to set the standard for years to come, if your gonna do it, do it right.

3 years of development, 8 hours of gameplay.

Doesn't seem like a very efficient use of time, irrespective of the cubic assload of money they'll make.

GTA3 was a single player game and I got DOZENS of hours of gameplay out of it. Mario64, DOZENS of hours of gameplay. I still play CTY/F Jedi Knight (man is that fun)

Why not make a new game?

Would you just shut the fuck up?

Quake 3 was all multiplayer and you all bitched. Doom 3 is [basically] all single player and you're still bitching!

Shut. The Fuck. Up.

id's strategy is pretty clear.

DOOM III = single player + coop (possibly) + small deathmatches (4 people)

Quake4 = multiplayer

This way they use DOOM III to whet people's appetites for Quake 4 and avoid direct competition with their closest licensee. I wouldn't be surprised if they specifically agreed NOT to do an extensive multiplayer part for DOOM III when they handed over the Q4 job to Raven.

If you don't like it, steal it or don't buy it. I don't see what all the fuss is.

I bet $100 that Raven will have Quake4 within 8 months of Doom out.
we'll get multiplayer with that for sure.

I'd rather have id concentrat on single player and have it finished.
look at Half-Life. their original multiplayer is POS but that did not stop them from
releasing some decent shiat later.

-Dynamo

Carmack's speech gave me a stiffy but it went away each time that cocksmoff went "mmm" into the mic..up down up down up down. How about one that wasn't recorded by a fuckknob?

Well, the best MP I've ever played was the original Doom/Doom2 and that was just a 4 player afterthought, right?

this sounds like how blizzard games are set up. I wonder if id will include an in-game matching service?

blah blah...

i'll happilly lay down $100 for doom 3. $50 for sp, $50 for multi. it looks like a bargain at that price.

it's the same thing epic's doing with unreal 2, which used to be a single/multiplayer game.

now it's $50 for the only-sp U2, and $50 for the only-mp UT2K3.

they look pretty good too, i'll probably buy at least one of those as well.

Well, this sure smells like the Q3A Q3TA debacle the entire community just suffered through:

Id - "Here, buy our $50 game and we'll give you what you should have received all along with a $30 addon."

BS. Pass.

This seems like a new trend with Id. Putting stuff into a for-fee expansion pack that they would have either included with the game or given away for free.

This is standard thinking by companies that have become established. It'll open the door further for competition if they do it, because it allows other game companies to distinguish themselves from Id by offering the enhancements as freebies.

Hopefully they mean peer-to-peer in the context of the file sharing networks and the like, however. This would just mean that they are limiting the single-player version of D3 to coop matches, but providing a mechanism for finding games over the 'net. I just can't see them only putting out coop that only works well on a lan.

Seems Carmack is aware of the multiplayer communities expectations. At E3 they tried to downplay the multiplayer part but that didn't help. On pages like this the sentiment was still "remember Q1 and Q2 were single player game, but still had great multiplayer. Doom3 will have great multiplayer". Since you didn't get it last time, he repeats the message and is more blunt. If you don't get the message this time, I guess he will just have to keep downplaying the multiplayer part of the game, until your expectations are lowered so much that you won't kill yourself when the game is finally released.

Isn't there a few advantages to peer to peer networking in regards to cheat prevention?

'I really like the fact that id is going to sell people less. I think this is a good direction for id. id said it was going to be a SP game, and they're delivering!

So all of you whiners, STFU!'

-- A recap of the preceding three pages of drivel. LOL! The average fanboy consumer should wear a sign that says, "ROB ME".

Relax ppl, D3 is not going to be the only game with the D3 engine. You ARE going to play multiplayer. If not in D3, then in Q4 and all the other games that will use this fantastic engine. Think Counter-Strike and such. Muchos modos and candies :).

ok Shackers, lets get real... if this game has pimp physics and per polygon collision detection that means you can shoot people in the finger or toe. This means shitloads of bandwidth. Ok, so realistically speaking this would need to happen over ethernet. How many of you guys are going to bitch when 2+ megabits are needed for multiplayer??

did they give any idea of when its going to be released?

I can't think of a single FPS that I've played through more than once. Will DOOM III be the first to change that? With scripted events I don't see how it can be that much different a 2nd time through.

I guess I better get the best system money can buy so I can get the best experience possible. I can always return it a week later :)

I was joking the other day and made the statement here that I could not wait for Doom 3 Team Arena.

I just don't care. I'm in it for the SP action. And if it's done right 4 player matches can be kickass. Halo is basically 4 player multiplayer (although you can play 16 with system links) and it's fucking awesome.

So I don't mind the limitations, as long as the sp is great.

quake2 had a huge multiplayer following and it was delivered free after the fact. i strongly doubt id would sell a multiplayer addon, they will just give it away as a future patch. the client-server functionality will be added in as a patch.

however, if they do sell the addon i will buy it. i have bought the expansions for most of the id games and loved them all. i would even be ok with id giving away the executables but making people pay for the maps. that way you could play user-made maps but could purchase the id maps if you wanted to.

we all know the id-made multiplayer maps have sucked for a long time now. quake3/team arena's maps were generally not that great. quake2 had some fun mp maps but half the guys that made them are gone.

also, you guys are getting upset about a game you won't be playing for 9 or 10 months. a lot can and will change in between now and the release date. other games will come out that could give id some good ideas about how to implement a good multiplayer game. or if they're smart they could go hire the guys that did the multiplayer half of RTCW to make a good doom mp experience.

I just realized something, I think ive been playing q3 everyday ever since it came it out. Is that wierd?

i guess with all the talk of multiplayer being after the fact we cant count on a doom3test or something along those lines..... the hope of that was single-handedly keeping me gamin'...

The retards are out in force tonight eh?

I think that its good of id to have a basic multiplayer. If they try to do everything, how long might it take to release this game? Look at whats happening to 3DRealms. Whether or not DNF or D3 will be better is a whole other flame war, but we've seen 3 quake games, an expansion pack, and maybe even D3 between the time it takes to make duke3d and DNF.

id's a small company after all. If you listened to his speech, a good portion was commenting on how long it takes to create content these days. And how, if money and manpower were limitless, each texture would be unique. He actually wants one of his future engines to last a good long time, maybe 5 to 10 years. if you have an engine so versatile, so everlasting, think of the focus on content.

hrm... i seemed to have rambled on from my original point. Ugh.. my head hurts.

If DOOM 3 has COOP, I'm SOLD. No questions, no hesitation, DOOM 3 + COOP = me slapping the money down.

i'm not payin for an add on so it better be a free download.. id is starting to act like money hungry bitches, xbox port now? the hell