Blizzard forced to offer Diablo 3 refunds in S. Korea

Troubles with Diablo III in South Korea have forced Blizzard to go against policy and offer refunds to dissatisfied gamers after prodding from the Korean government.

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Server and connection problems with Diablo III in South Korea have forced Blizzard to go against its previous policy and offer refunds to dissatisfied gamers after prodding from a Korean consumer protection agency.

Blizzard announced through is Korean Diablo III site that it would start offering refunds to players lower than level 40 beginning on June 25, according to the Wall Street Journal. Disgruntled players can apply for the refunds through July 3. Blizzard also said that, from now on, it would accept returns of the game within 14 days of purchase from any player under level 20.

The move comes almost a month after Korea's Fair Trade Commission began investigating complaints that gamers unhappy with their Diablo III experience could not get refunds because of Blizzard's no-return policy. In early June, Blizzard added more servers to ease the load of an unexpectedly high number of players joining the game, apologizing in the process for the inconvenience and poor planning.

Contributing Editor
From The Chatty
  • reply
    June 21, 2012 7:30 AM

    John Keefer posted a new article, Blizzard forced to offer Diablo 3 refunds in S. Korea.

    Troubles with Diablo III in South Korea have forced Blizzard to go against policy and offer refunds to dissatisfied gamers after prodding from the Korean government.

    • reply
      June 21, 2012 7:38 AM

      Fucking. Stupid.

      • reply
        June 21, 2012 7:49 AM

        Yeah, fucking consumer rights! Here in America the land of the FUCKING FREE we don't deal in no faggy consumer protection!

        • reply
          June 21, 2012 8:16 AM

          Yes, the land of the free for producers and consumers alike, ideally.

          • reply
            June 21, 2012 8:19 AM

            So you don't think people should be able to get their money back if the product they purchased didn't function? You can do it with just about any product so why not a video game?

            • reply
              June 21, 2012 8:57 AM

              what about diablo 3 doesnt function?

              • reply
                June 21, 2012 9:20 AM

                Apparently, on the Korean servers, everything.

                • reply
                  June 21, 2012 3:57 PM

                  Except I play on the Korean servers and they function just fine, or at least just as much as the American servers.

                  • reply
                    June 22, 2012 5:11 AM

                    as much as American server .. which is not much during peak period. And even when you can log in, many people are still experiencing lag. And just because you did not experience such server failure, doesn't invalidate other's experience.

              • reply
                June 21, 2012 9:25 AM

                dissatisfaction with a product is good enough justification to return an item. dont see why video games should be the exception

                • reply
                  June 21, 2012 9:26 AM

                  How many hours of "dissatisfaction" are allowed before a company doesn't have to offer a refund?

                  • reply
                    June 21, 2012 9:33 AM

                    is that a standard question asked in other industries?

                    • reply
                      June 21, 2012 9:35 AM

                      Actually, yeah, think about 30, 60, or 90 day return policies. There is a certain amount of assumed usage, that once it is past, companies don't think they should give you your money back.

                      • reply
                        June 21, 2012 11:20 AM

                        Even if it's a 30 day though they'd still be within their rights at this point. I think the issue is that video games are generally completely finished long before that though.

                    • reply
                      June 21, 2012 11:05 AM

                      Ya. They also dont let you return stuff if you use it. So you rip the tag off those shoes, wear them around in the mud for a bit, then try to return them. See what answer you get.

                      • reply
                        June 21, 2012 4:50 PM

                        That's assuming that the shoes work as shoes.

                        The big contention here is that the game is not working as a game.

                        It'd be like you always having to be connected to Nike, and when Nike's servers are down, you can't walk anywhere.

                  • reply
                    June 21, 2012 10:16 AM

                    How many hours did they play?

                  • reply
                    June 21, 2012 5:22 PM

                    It's not a question of how many hours. People were wanting a refund from the start because of the lack of server accessibility. Blizzard assured customers that the wheels are in motion to fix this. While they've made strides ahead, the servers still are very inaccessible compared to most products.

                    This has a lot to do with high demand for the product more than anything but Blizzard essentially created a product that demands a good portion of what is demanded from an MMO without the subscription to keep it funded. So naturally, more players does not mean more servers unless the cash auction really starts booming in transactions and so far you might get $1 for 20 attempts at a real cash auction in a week. There's just no true demand for Diablo items to convince to opt to use cash instead of in-game gold.

                    This will always be the problem with D3. If it gets too popular, it will become less enjoyable because infrastructure implementation will never meet the demands. The game will become stable once most player become so dissatisfied that they stop playing.

                • reply
                  June 21, 2012 11:04 AM

                  If im dissatisfied with an apple after eating half of it, should i be able to return it?

                  • reply
                    June 21, 2012 11:07 AM

                    Sure if halfway through the apple you bit into a worm, more than justified to return it.

                    • reply
                      June 21, 2012 11:20 AM

                      not the same. What if i just dont like the taste?

                      • reply
                        June 21, 2012 11:49 AM

                        You claim 'not the same' on his analogy when you are comparing a consumable product to a (theoretically) infinite digital tool. You are the epitome of retarded.

                        • reply
                          June 21, 2012 2:02 PM

                          The analogy works because a game is a consumable product per se. Kinda like a movie or a book. You can buy it, read the story/watch the story/play the game and then return it. Taking the value from the product for free essentially.

                      • reply
                        June 21, 2012 12:26 PM

                        yes you can certainly return it so long as you didnt eat all the apples. who the fuck only buys one apple?

                        • reply
                          June 21, 2012 1:59 PM

                          I dont. but thats not the fuckin point. You can buy 1 apple if you want.

                      • reply
                        June 21, 2012 7:43 PM

                        A worm or inner rot would be the equivalent of a defective product. In the case of Diablo it would be anything that renders the game unusable. While the game is usable, it's not usable whenever you want it to be. The frequent server overloads and maintenance would be about the same as having some parts of the apple fresh, but other parts inedible.

                        Not liking the flavor of the apple is a matter of preference. You still bought the apple and it's a fully functioning apple, you just didn't like it. That would be the same as having a fully usable game that just wasn't to your preference. That is a case where it shouldn't be rightful for refund.

                        The case here is the prior.

                • reply
                  June 21, 2012 12:22 PM

                  I kind of agree. I don't get why gaming is this massive different world. Unions, proper schedules, funding, used market, etc should all function exactly as any other industry. The people who defend it like it's an old boys club is really bizarre.

              • reply
                June 22, 2012 5:13 AM

                Do you even need to ask?

                1) server overload, even four week into the game. Now it seems to get better, but still not so during peak peroid

                2) horrendous lag even if you can log in.

                3) excessive server downtime, one a week of scheduled downtime and on average almost one additional ad-hoc/emergency downtime

                And these are just the more serious ones which totally disrupt gameplay.

    • reply
      June 21, 2012 7:41 AM

      Lucky Bastards.

    • reply
      June 21, 2012 7:49 AM

      Why does blizzard always have "unexpectedly high" number of users under launch day? It should be expected as every new thing they lunch has this problem.

      • reply
        June 21, 2012 11:54 AM

        To be fair, I still get frequent bursts of lag, slingshotting back across the screen while just moving.

    • reply
      June 21, 2012 7:49 AM

      I've put 500 hours into this game....Didn't enjoy it, I'd like my money back.

      • reply
        June 21, 2012 7:53 AM

        Hey! Actually I 100% agree with the rules they setup. Up to level 40 and going forward up to level 20. I wish every game would do something similar. LA NOIRE I"M LOOKING AT YOU SINCE YOU DON"T EVEN START

        • reply
          June 21, 2012 8:21 AM

          It is ridiculous this doesn't exist already. Like I said above, no other industry can get away with selling broken shit and not accepting a return. As with everything else, there should be a time limit (or level limit), but you should be able to return games in these situations

          • reply
            June 21, 2012 8:29 AM

            Especially with more publishers and games requiring/needing to be online. They know how much you've played the game. And the online authentication (supposedly) prevents pirating. So they just revoke your authentication and give you a refund.

          • reply
            June 21, 2012 10:15 AM

            I think time is probably the only safe limit. Levels only exist in certain games and are far too arbitrary to be a rule/law to use for refunds. At GameStop, before it changed, we offered a 7 day return policy on any game, new or used, opened or not. I think that'd be a pretty fair set, even for online purchased digital downloads.

    • reply
      June 21, 2012 8:44 AM

      The game sucks... a total snore fest. Wish I could get my money back, Diablo 3 was all hype and no quality. Blizzard sucks at gameplay as well as story. And the graphics look like it was designed to run on mobile phones. Blizzard totally took a big shit on the potential of a Diablo 2 sequel.

      Lucky S Koreans.

      • reply
        June 21, 2012 9:05 AM

        They gave refunds to anyone who called and asked for one in the first 30 days. But I'm sure that if the game was as bad as you say, that you've already pursued that avenue.

        • reply
          June 21, 2012 9:18 AM

          Thanks for the notice. It hasn't been 30 days since I purchased it so if what you say is true then I'll happily be getting my money back from that shitty game!

          • reply
            June 21, 2012 9:21 AM

            god help us, the diablo 3 forums are leaking into the chatty

            • reply
              June 21, 2012 9:30 AM

              Let them. The cream shall rise to the top.

          • reply
            June 21, 2012 9:30 AM

            Sounds like you played through the entire game and now you want a refund? I hope you're just trolling.

            • reply
              June 21, 2012 9:41 AM

              Where did you delusion the "played through the entire game" part from? Insanely powerful uncontrolled imagination or just off your meds? I couldn't make it through the first chapter. Blizzard sucks royally at everything from gameplay, to writing, to graphics. Diablo 3 is an ultra-shallow bargain bin title selling at premium price simply because of who it's made by.

              • reply
                June 21, 2012 10:01 AM

                So, you unlocked, what, four of the hundreds of skills that your class has and decided it was shallow? Way to go.

                • reply
                  June 21, 2012 10:08 AM

                  Obviously significantly more than that. The gameplay has shown itself in full, as has the terrible writing, graphics, atmosphere, and mediocre music. This game is a bad joke of a sequel, and a sequel to Diablo 2 should have been one of the easiest things to get right.

                  • reply
                    June 21, 2012 10:24 AM

                    I played the beta and realized it was a "snorefest" at that point, which wasn't helped by the ever-present lag and random disconnects. Saved me a lot of trouble.

                    The latter I'm sure have improved since the beta, but for the type of game Diablo III is I can't excuse the dated graphics and bland appearance. Its just not compelling.

                    • reply
                      June 21, 2012 10:43 AM

                      Pjargon I agree with you totally. Glad someone out here put up a good example of Diablo's problems.

                    • reply
                      June 21, 2012 11:40 AM

                      Diablo 1 and 2 had dated graphics when they were released too.

                      • reply
                        June 21, 2012 2:17 PM

                        A lot of folks rail on Diablo 3's graphics, but I want to know when has Blizzard ever pushed the boundaries in that aspect? There were screen shots of Diablo 3 before it launched. You could see them before hand. Railing on Diablo for it's graphical approach is a shallow argument.

                        • reply
                          June 21, 2012 2:35 PM

                          I was actually pretty amazed at starcraft's graphics.

                        • reply
                          June 21, 2012 2:50 PM

                          While I can see your point (that Blizzard games almost always suck?), I don't think its just the technical aspect of the graphics that are lacking. The art in general seems to have been designed to be uninteresting.

                          • reply
                            June 21, 2012 7:13 PM

                            It is. I agree. It looks quite lazy.

                            • reply
                              June 21, 2012 7:16 PM

                              I suppose I should append that it's a poor argument to lump in as a reason for a refund.

                  • reply
                    June 21, 2012 7:14 PM

                    ^^this is the kind of people you're defending, Shacknews.

                • reply
                  June 21, 2012 11:23 AM

                  'hundreds of skills'.

                  Slight exaggeration?

                  • reply
                    June 21, 2012 11:35 AM

                    Slightly. There's about 130 active skills and runes and another 16 passives for each class. Hardly shallow if you're looking for customization.

                    • reply
                      June 21, 2012 12:03 PM

                      Except once you progress you are pretty much locked into a certain set and type of play or you won't be progressing anymore.

                      • reply
                        June 21, 2012 12:06 PM

                        I don't get what you mean. There's nothing to stop you from changing your spec and trying something different. In fact, the difficulty curve as you progress pretty much encourages this.

                        • reply
                          June 21, 2012 12:15 PM

                          As you progress, variety and choice is an illusion. You're really locked into a small subset of skills, with some of them almost mandatory and some completely worthless.

                        • reply
                          June 21, 2012 12:17 PM

                          What monk in Inferno doesn't use Serenity and Breath of Heaven? What demon hunter doesn't use Smokescreen and Nether Tentacles?

                          • reply
                            June 21, 2012 12:19 PM

                            .... now? NT is garbage, and smokescreen is basically a crutch used to give glass cannon builds who haven't capped +movement speed some survivability.

                            I've already ditched NT, and am considering ditching smokescreen as well since being one-shot isn't an issue.

                            • reply
                              June 21, 2012 12:25 PM

                              Do you play without Vault? I can't imajine a world without it.

                              • reply
                                June 21, 2012 12:28 PM

                                I ditched vault in Act 2 Inferno.

                                Used it to get Belial down initially, but that's it. Vault's probably more useful now that DH's can be built to eat a few hits, but I haven't used it since the patch. Before the patch it was too slow to really use as an escape ability.

                                • reply
                                  June 21, 2012 1:23 PM

                                  I like dark shadows with the gloom rune instead of vault.

                                  • reply
                                    June 21, 2012 1:28 PM

                                    I was face tanking Inferno Diablo w/ shadow power + gloom. The build was too rng in Phase 2 because of Diablo's whore for me to beat him, but I did push the fight to Phase 3 using it once.

                                    Lately I've been considering sp + gloom as a ss replacement, since it has twice the duration and better (average) dr. Without the ridiculous one-shots, the invulnerability ss provides isn't as necessary.

                                    • reply
                                      June 21, 2012 1:56 PM

                                      Oh, and Cluster Arrow + Loaded For Bear is my current wtfpwn ability. The hatred cost is ridiculous, but it hits hard.

                                      Going to try it in Act 3 tonight (ran through 1 & 2 yesterday) to see if it keeps up. If so, I might try tweaking some other things to get more hatred regen. Something like Vengeance might reappear in my spec soon...

                            • reply
                              June 21, 2012 12:28 PM

                              I was really referring to before the patch because the same principle still applies now.

                              Inversely, what demon hunter uses Nether Tentacles, Entangling Shot, Grenades, Spider Companion, Boar Companion, Preparation with Invigoration or Focused Mind, Vault with Action Shot, Marked For Death with Death Toll, Sentry with Chain of Torment or Spitfire Turret, Evasive Fire, Fan of Knives with Retaliate, or Strafe. I may be wrong on some of these, but it seems like 90% of the hunter's skills are useless.

                              • reply
                                June 21, 2012 12:42 PM

                                A lot still use Nether Tentacles.

                                Preparation + Focused Mind paired with Shadow Power + Gloom is central to a tanky Demon Hunter build. I'm not sure if it's still viable post-patch (the NT nerf kind of hurts it), though. Prep + FM does give you more discipline than normal prep unless you have +20 to your disc pool, but the build needs more regular discipline usage as opposed to the spiky use SS builds show. I can see Invigoration being used here, too, since you'd effectively get 10 extra discipline to use per prep.

                                Spitfire Turret's like the most useful turret glyph there is. A lot use it for constant damage if they don't have enough ias or movement speed to effectively kite.

                                Evasive Fire is awesome when paired with Tactical Advantage. In fact, Evasive Fire + Covering Fire has been my main generator since getting to Act 3 inferno (I completed all of Inferno before 1.0.3 hit).

                                The harsh DR on slows make a lot of those other abilities kind of useless in Inferno, but they get a lot of use before that. However, DH's no longer have to dedicate 4 slots to discipline abilities to simply survive, which opens up a lot of experimentation in Inferno. Basically, Inferno's very different now than it was last week.

                                There are a lot of questionable and downright bad abilities, but that's to be expected when there's 130 of them. The worst ones (Strafe has explicitly been called out) are being looked at/modified in 1.1.

                                • reply
                                  June 21, 2012 12:56 PM

                                  Seems like a very small number of viable skills, doesn't it?

                                  • reply
                                    June 21, 2012 1:04 PM

                                    You realize I went through the list of skills you provided and briefly explained viable Inferno builds/uses for them, right? I wasn't intending to, nor will I, create an exhaustive list.

                                    • reply
                                      June 21, 2012 1:11 PM

                                      Yes, and after your explanation, it still seems like a very small number of viable skills out of 650 skill and rune combinations.

                                      • reply
                                        June 21, 2012 1:16 PM

                                        ... 650? There's 23 base abilities and 15 passives. Each base ability has 6 variants, which gives you 138 different skills. This is much less than 650.

                                        • reply
                                          June 21, 2012 1:18 PM

                                          My mistake.

                                          Yes, and after your explanation, it still seems like a very small number of viable skills out of 138 skill and rune combinations.

                                          • reply
                                            June 21, 2012 1:31 PM

                                            Okay? Well, it's not.

                                            Grenades and Strafe are two abilities I can't think of a single viable build that use them. Every other ability has at least one rune that's useful (at some point in the game), and for many (if not most) abilities all of the runes are useful and reduce to personal preference or gear. The only ones that lose their viability entirely in current Inferno are those whose only purpose is to slow enemies (ex: entangling shot).

                                            People who still claim Demon Hunters have <10 viable skills after 1.0.3 simply haven't experimented, have no imagination, or are too stuck in their glass cannon ways to see the other alternatives.

                          • reply
                            June 21, 2012 12:44 PM

                            I think that the discussion above shows that there's quite a bit of variety in what people can use in Inferno. And more builds will get discovered or balanced to be viable. People played D2 for 10 years and were still discovering better builds. The same should be true for D3.

                            You should also keep in mind that Inferno is 1/4 of the game, and it's a portion that very few players will even get to, much less beat. To say that builds up to Inferno aren't worth while builds just because they don't stay viable is unfair. Plenty of people will use those skills for the entire time they play. pizzaput certainly never played far enough to discover what skills would be viable. He decided there wasn't enough variety before he unlocked 1/10 of the skills available.

                            • reply
                              June 21, 2012 12:48 PM

                              Fair enough. But my thoughts while playing through Normal to Hell were always: Why should I use that when this is so much better?

                              • reply
                                June 21, 2012 4:14 PM

                                You shouldn't!

                                The point is that other people are going to like that over this and can use it.

                      • reply
                        June 21, 2012 12:20 PM

                        And that stopped being true on Tuesday with 1.0.3.

              • reply
                June 21, 2012 10:42 AM

                "Blizzard sucks at gameplay as well as story."

                I just figured you actually finished the story to decide whether or not they suck at writing the story.

              • reply
                June 21, 2012 10:49 AM

                [deleted]

                • reply
                  June 21, 2012 11:13 AM

                  Oh, he can have his money back if he didn't like the starting experience of the game. But I'm still going to call him an idiot.

                  • reply
                    June 21, 2012 11:47 AM

                    I'm more than happy for people like him to NOT be playing. I don't want to deal with jaded annoying players if I join public games.

                • reply
                  June 21, 2012 11:46 AM

                  Nobody gets money back for games to date, why is it starting now?

                  • Ebu legacy 10 years
                    reply
                    June 21, 2012 12:35 PM

                    "We've had slaves forever. Why free them now?"
                    It's never too late to improve!

                  • reply
                    June 21, 2012 12:42 PM

                    What's that? If a console game wasn't working back in the 90's you could easily take it back. I've done it. It's only since DRM and steam that this has become an issue

                    • reply
                      June 21, 2012 12:44 PM

                      No. Not being able to return PC software predates steam.

                      This started in the late-90's/early-00's and became ubiquitous by the mid-00's, I believe. The reason was piracy -- people would buy a game, copy it, then return it.

                      • reply
                        June 21, 2012 12:46 PM

                        Except one can't pirate Diablo 3, so where's the problem? I need to be online so I don't pirate the game, but I can't return it because I might have pirated it.....buh? I'm confused

                        • reply
                          June 21, 2012 1:08 PM

                          This, DRM only games should be able to be returned or at least re-sold.

                          • reply
                            June 21, 2012 1:09 PM

                            If it's online only like Diablo or WoW it should be easy to revoke the key and any access. I'm not sure what the problem is

                          • reply
                            June 21, 2012 2:31 PM

                            Why does that even make sense? In this case for D3, the $60 is essentially a lifetime subscription. Why should it be transferrable?

              • reply
                June 21, 2012 11:31 AM

                lol

              • reply
                June 21, 2012 11:37 AM

                you sound very mad and butthurt

                • reply
                  June 21, 2012 11:54 AM

                  Totally. Supporting a garbage quality game sucks. Thank god for refunds.

                  • reply
                    June 21, 2012 11:55 AM

                    i imagined you saying this through a bleeding vagina and little bits of bloody spittle were shooting out while the vagina folds flapped back and forth with an unopened tampon in the background

                    • reply
                      June 21, 2012 12:26 PM

                      why would the tampon not be opened tho if bleeding all over the place i mean isn't that what they are for we really need to dig into this and figure it out

                    • reply
                      June 21, 2012 12:53 PM

                      I'm wholly not surprised, Diablo 3 is shitty enough of a game to warrant that. It's the genuine shit deal.

                    • reply
                      June 21, 2012 3:47 PM

                      This is Diablo 3 not Randy Pitchford or Steve Gibson talking about Borderlands.

              • reply
                June 21, 2012 11:59 AM

                Poor people and the new pirating.

              • reply
                June 21, 2012 12:01 PM

                LOL

              • reply
                June 21, 2012 12:30 PM

                You're going to get piled on for this, because HOW DARE YOU TALK SMACK ABOUT THIS GOLDEN PEGASUS OF A MASTERPIECE SPECIAL SNOWFLAKE VIDEO GAME MADE BY THE SECOND COMING OF JESUS CHRIST BLIZZARD

                but, in all reality, this is a personal opinion - people don't have to agree with you, and while most people won't, I'm sure there are lots of people that do.

                /shackpile

                • reply
                  June 21, 2012 3:54 PM

                  I don't really take issue with him not liking the game, moreso that he (like many others) feel they're entitled to a refund "because its Blizzard" and the game didn't live up to their lofty/unrealistic expectations.

                  With all of the media that Blizzard had put out prior to the release of the game, I can't see how anybody could have purchased it expecting there to be something completely contrary to that in the box. On top of that, he didn't even purchase it at release, so he had plenty of time to read the myriad of reviews (positive and negative) before plopping down the cash for the game.

                  No sympathy.

        • reply
          June 22, 2012 11:59 AM

          I just got my refund. I was surprised by how easily the person on the phone gave it to me, but I guess the 30 day policy applies to North America, while I've read that people in EU and elsewhere get screwed with only a 3 day return policy.

          It took a couple days of trying to get through to support though, their wait queue was always maxed out and not accepting more callers.

      • reply
        June 21, 2012 5:54 PM

        * F R O N T P A G E R *

      • reply
        June 21, 2012 6:43 PM

        you want pizzaputs?

    • reply
      June 21, 2012 9:31 AM

      I watched a 5 min video of someone playing Diablo 3 - I imagine the entire game is like that 5 minutes, just multiplied to the nth degree.

      • reply
        June 21, 2012 9:33 AM

        yes. do you know what the diablo series is about, by chance? repetitive play. getting loot.

        it seems a huge segment of consumers are suddenly very stupid. they know exactly what they are getting into (hopefully, it's the information age), consume the content, and then want a refund. this is not a good framework for the future.

        • reply
          June 21, 2012 9:42 AM

          Except Diablo 2 is a much more enjoyable game than Diablo 3 due to better writing, atmosphere, leveling options, and gameplay. Diablo 3 took what redeeming factors there were and "streamlined"/incopetenced them out.

          • reply
            June 21, 2012 10:12 AM

            I think D2 was a niche release. very tight in design, for all its pros and cons. D3, the audience is MUCH MUCH larger, and they tried to tackle the design challenges therein. they wanted it simpler, more forgiving, and to acknowledge that people want loot upgrades RIGHT NOW instead of a constant grind in perpetuity. that worked in the D2 era. not so much now.

            I have a lot of hours in D3, mostly co-op, and it's been a great value. as my friends go back to BF3, world of tanks, TF2, etc, we all know we fuckin BINGED on D3 for a month, and that's been fun. But, 1.03 is mostly a disappointment, and we're all starting to peel off for a while. Personally it's going to be rough to fix up the IAS nerf, and my witch doctor buddy almost /wristed.

            and I also think a lot of folks are new to the diablo loot zerg type of game. where you do the same stuff over and over... by design. I also think blizzard didn't make it nearly hard enough in hell mode. and seeing how they had to capitulate to fix inferno shows how little they tested it, but enthusiastic gamers were all up in that shit in such a short amount of time. so I totally agree that D3 isn't a perfect game, but we have to consider the reality of the gaming market now. people value time more than anything, and will pay extra to get stuff to bypass a grind.

            • reply
              June 21, 2012 12:23 PM

              Haha Diablo 2 niche. Right

            • reply
              June 21, 2012 12:41 PM

              The only reason D3 has a larger audience is because the total gaming market is larger. The D2 release was HUGE.

              • reply
                June 21, 2012 3:16 PM

                It was also the fastest selling PC game ever on it's release, if I remember correctly.

          • reply
            June 21, 2012 1:43 PM

            Diablo 2 had writing?

            There is 30 times the spoken words in D3 compared to D2. It's pretty easy for so little of something to avoid being annoying.

            • reply
              June 21, 2012 1:49 PM

              Sometimes less is more. I've started muting the dialoge in D3 and it's better for it.

              • reply
                June 21, 2012 3:48 PM

                The dialog and vocal delivery in D3 is goofy as shit, and contributes heavily to the lack of serious or dark atmosphere. It's like a kid's cartoon.

          • reply
            June 21, 2012 3:27 PM

            Diablo 2 was just as bad at launch if not worse than 3 was. So many completely unbalanced things, corpse explosion anyone (but damn it was fun). Battle.net couldn't stay up worth a damn, and you'd get kicked out of games all the time.

            Diablo 2 was great but people are remembering the good and forgetting all of the bad.

            • reply
              June 21, 2012 3:34 PM

              Corpse Explosion was just ridiculous.

              Our first run was a paly (me), sorc, necro, and amazon (I think?). Three of us would focus on getting the first mob down, and the necro would kill the other 30 on the screen instantly after that.

              ... and then be all, "what? you guys can't do something similar? O_o"

              • reply
                June 21, 2012 3:37 PM

                Yeah I remember that. Also same problem with uniques being utter garbage out of the gate with rares being the top. Apparently they didn't learn they can still have rares be the best, but legendaries shouldn't all be crap.

                • reply
                  June 21, 2012 3:45 PM

                  LoD sets and legendaries were the best, but it killed any gear diversity because everyone just used the same stuff.

                  Rares being better than legendaries was the direct result of feedback from the long-standing Diablo 2 community.

                  • reply
                    June 21, 2012 3:50 PM

                    Yeah, agreed, they seem to have swung too far in the other direction. I still think it's easy to have rares be the best, it's just that legendaries need to not be so awful. Some aren't but most are, they should mostly be good and some great.

                    • reply
                      June 21, 2012 3:52 PM

                      Weapons aside, I think a lot of legendary armor is actually in a good place. They're not necessarily better than rares, but offer off-piece stats that enable more interesting builds.

                  • reply
                    June 21, 2012 3:51 PM

                    Rares should be better at equal level but a level 60 legendary shouldn't be equal or worse than a level 50 rare.

                    • reply
                      June 21, 2012 4:14 PM

                      Some are, some aren't.

                      The best belt for melee is String of Ears, which is a level 53 legendary. The best helm for melee is Helm of Command, which is a level 62 legendary crafted. The best helm for ranged is Andariel's Visage, which is a level 59 legendary. Lacuni Prowlers, a level 53 legendary, are considered required for effective glass cannon builds.

                      I think some people have started toying with the class sets, but not sure if any effective builds have resulted yet.

                      A poorly rolled/itemized level 60 legendary could be better than a perfectly rolled/itemized level 50 rare. There's not much that should change about that.

                  • reply
                    June 21, 2012 4:47 PM

                    Legendaries should be good-great. Rares should be trash-godly.

            • Ebu legacy 10 years
              reply
              June 21, 2012 3:39 PM

              I disagree:
              Unbalanced builds are FINE. Their interview even mentioned it! It's awesome to find a combo that makes you feel overpowered. That's what it's about. Corpse Explosion wasn't OP, not really, but it was really powerful and (and this is the part they're forgetting now) FUN.

              Battle.net was no more stable than it is now, I totally agree. That's why I never used it.

              • reply
                June 21, 2012 3:43 PM

                Corpse Explosion was probably the most OP ability ever released in an rpg ever.

        • reply
          June 21, 2012 9:59 AM

          I just saw a post on the Blizzard D3 forums which I think puts it in fair terms:

          diablo 2 = dragon age: origins
          diablo 3 = dragon age 2
          blizzard then = bioware then
          blizzard now = bioware now
          passion then, greed now

          source: https://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/5889309189

          Blizzard just sucks a big one these days.

          • reply
            June 21, 2012 2:28 PM

            Haha - a source from the blizzard forums? Have you lost your mind?

            Ive been playing Blizzard games since the 90's and Starcraft 2 and Diablo 3 are the deepest, most polished yet. Not perfect by any means, but absolutely fantastic, genre defining games.

            • reply
              June 21, 2012 4:09 PM

              [deleted]

              • reply
                June 21, 2012 4:19 PM

                Can you name a better game in the ARPG genre?

                D3 is the standard that every future ARPG will be measured against. Nothing else is even close. Whether or not you like all the aspects of the game, it introduced a new skill system, great social integration, a global AH & RMAH, and a higher difficulty level than any previous ARPG.

                That's a pretty dramatic shift in the genre.

              • reply
                June 21, 2012 4:23 PM

                The skill system is genre defining. I doubt we'll be seeing many arpg's sticking with the Diablo 2 style in five years.

                I doubt a lot of the other new stuff (mmo-style, rmah, etc.) will be feasible by the smaller development houses.

                • reply
                  June 21, 2012 4:38 PM

                  I think the social stuff will get skipped, but RMAH is a long term revenue stream. Dev's will flock to that like F2P because they can.

                  • reply
                    June 21, 2012 4:43 PM

                    RMAH requires the mmo design, though, which is a significant up-front investment on a genre that's little more than Blizzard + low cost indies and assorted bankrupt developers.

                • reply
                  June 21, 2012 4:40 PM

                  [deleted]

                  • reply
                    June 21, 2012 4:46 PM

                    Yeah, I can.

                    Diablo 2's long term community was fairly small, and (I believe) less than 1% of its total sales. Diablo 3 will certainly have an expansion that incorporates feedback/lessons learned from D3, and history shows that's when Blizzard really knocks their games out of the park.

                    People don't remember Starcraft, Diablo 2, or Warcraft 3 -- they remember Brood War, Lord of Destruction, and The Frozen Throne.

                    • reply
                      June 21, 2012 5:25 PM

                      [deleted]

                      • reply
                        June 21, 2012 5:32 PM

                        [deleted]

                      • reply
                        June 21, 2012 11:00 PM

                        " tried to fix some many of the more glaring flaws in D2 but they're poorly implemented"
                        WHAT flaws???
                        Not saying D3 is perfect, but are we supposed to divine what the FUCK you're talking about??

                        "Couple that with a poor visual style"
                        Opinion, I like it, it's a brilliant look. So what, wanna fight about it?

                        " sub-par soundtrack"
                        Bull, it's fantastic

                        "cringe-worthy dialogue"
                        Oh, yeah...that...can't argue with that one!

                        "Also, I want my Wizard to be able to hit things with a staff. "

                        1. You can, just deselect the skill assigned to left click.
                        2. WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO DO THAT????

                  • reply
                    June 21, 2012 5:45 PM

                    With expansions, yes, I can see it. They're planning at least 2 this time around.

              • reply
                June 22, 2012 4:37 PM

                I think EVERYONE forgets that Blizzard games BECOME classics because of the sheer amount of polish and HUGE game changes that are done AFTER the game is released.

                Rune words? Synergies? remember those? those were all added in patches in D2.

                In Wow: Arenas, instanced quest lines, honor system. All this stuff was added later. Blizzard is not afraid to add to their games. if you played an early version of D2, you'd think it sucked.

                Yah D3 seems to have started pretty low on the totem pole. But I have faith it will get polished to something really freakin good.

                • reply
                  June 24, 2012 2:09 AM

                  You have no clue. Runewords were added by the expansion, which was a paid-for addon.

          • reply
            June 21, 2012 3:02 PM

            Just stop posting. A quick perusal of your posting history has you saying that Diablo 3 is one of the worst games ever made, Battlefield 3 was awful, and that skyrim is the DNF of rpgs.

            • reply
              June 21, 2012 3:15 PM

              I know, there've been some real shit games released by prominent studios lately.

    • reply
      June 21, 2012 11:02 AM

      Not only that - in France & Germany are looking into consumer protection complaints because of not clearly stating on the packaging that the game needs to be always online to be playable, even single player. http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/articles/352950/20120616/diablo-3-blizzard-legal-notices-false-advertisement.htm

    • reply
      June 21, 2012 5:17 PM

      And what about all the people over here (Taiwan) who can't log in because the servers in Korea were limiting connections from outside Korea?

      Hilariously enough the easiest way to fix the problem was to set up a VPN bouncing through Korea and you could long in instantly. I'm not sure if this is still an issue, but it was for a couple weeks after launch..

      • reply
        June 21, 2012 5:52 PM

        Have you tried playing on the North American servers? I'm based in Korea but have been playing on NA since close to launch and things have been pretty smooth.

        • reply
          June 21, 2012 6:23 PM

          I mostly play on the NA servers. The only reason I brought this up was because a large amount of my friends here haven't been able to log in, or get stuck with large waits just to play the game. It's something that really shoudln't be happening.

    • reply
      June 22, 2012 12:35 PM

      Brilliant.
      About time Software producers properly tested their products before releasing them!

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