Diablo 3 nerfs Monk with 'drastic' rune change

Blizzard has issued what it calls a "drastic" hotfix to Diablo 3, nerfing one of the Monk's runes because it was "ten times over its budget on the benefits it provided."

120

Diablo III is getting hit with a major change to the Monk class, after Blizzard determined that letting a overpowered rune exist in its current state was a "mistake." This comes among other hotfixes that apparently weakened the Wizard class as well.

The change comes to the Mantra of Healing rune, called Boon of Protection. It now caps damage absorption at the amount of healing provided by the Mantra of Healing in the first three seconds after activation. Blizzard recommends discontinuing its use until the rune is replaced in a future patch.

"The Boon of Protection rune was approximately ten times over its budget on the benefits it provided, and it was quite simply a mistake on our part to let the rune ship as it was," read a post from community manager Bashiok. "We don't intend to take these quick and drastic measures often, but considering the severity of the issue, we felt it important to correct it swiftly."

The post notes that other fixes are coming, and forum users seem to have spotted at least one of them. Many players are noting that the Wizard has had his Force Armor weakened without a notice yet.

So how is Blizzard just now catching such large problems after the game spent two years in "polish mode"? A follow-up post from Bashiok says that the game is adapting to player data. "The game is still young, there were some skills that threw things out of whack, and we expect the landscape to settle out a bit more evenly. Or at least change again so we can continue to monitor the impact," the post read. "Maybe we're wrong, maybe there's no current chance for monk or barbarian to compete with ranged, but our current suspicion is that's incorrect and until we know for sure we're not going to turn any dials."

And to assuage some fears that the Monk would be underpowered now, Bashiok points out that "general class balance is an ongoing investigation" and claims that "the monk and barbarian are not as bad off as they seem."

If you want some tips on surviving Nightmare Mode, check out our latest Diablo III Diary. John Keefer is playing as a Monk, and "use overpowered rune" wasn't even one of his tips.

Editor-In-Chief
From The Chatty
  • reply
    May 23, 2012 9:00 AM

    Steve Watts posted a new article, Diablo 3 nerfs Monk with 'drastic' rune change.

    Blizzard has issued what it calls a "drastic" hotfix to Diablo 3, nerfing one of the Monk's runes because it was "ten times over its budget on the benefits it provided."

    • reply
      May 23, 2012 9:08 AM

      Hopefully they are as concerned about Error 3007 (joining Gen chat does NOT always fix it).

    • reply
      May 23, 2012 9:26 AM

      Mantra of healing was so goddamn strong. I basically watch my health climb back to the top before the next hit can land. Monk has so many invulnerability skills and solid self healing skills. Unless you are one shotted, it is practically impossible to die.

      • reply
        May 23, 2012 9:41 AM

        Are you playing solo? This game is easy as pie solo. You get 4 people in the room and in the later acts I assure you you'll start dying.

        • reply
          May 23, 2012 10:05 AM

          I'm sure. I'm just saying, where it is, the monk does have a very strong self replenishment. I haven't played all classes yet, but it seems like they are self sustaining more than the other classes.

          • reply
            May 23, 2012 10:21 AM

            They are, they can self heal quite a bit, but our damage blows by comparison to a lot of other class's.

            Honestly, I'm upset primarily because I haven't been able to use a fist weapon in ages w/o sacrificing substantial bonus's. I find swords with mods that make fists look like complete trash. It's just...monks would be fun if fist weapons were useful, filled some role that mattered, and if the heal/shield skills had better range. To get a nerf with stuff preventing enjoying the class to it's fullest is like a slap in the face.

            • reply
              May 23, 2012 10:23 AM

              Gamers should stop using the phrase "a slap in the face."

              • reply
                May 23, 2012 10:53 AM

                Why? I mean, it's really second nature. Smack talk often consists of 'get slapped'. Or we're like, "Hey let's go slap some kids in public". I mean, when a gamer says a company is basically slapping them in the face the context can go so far as to infer the degree of emotional distress was comparable to similar events, events such as being unable to win no matter what you do, spawned camped, teabagged, and then in the lobby afterwards being asked, bro, bro, bro.....Umad? Thereafter sending HateMail and only receiving replies of, Y so Seriouz, and Cool Story.

      • reply
        May 23, 2012 10:08 AM

        You say that now.. But in late Hell and Inferno, when you're getting hit for 5 digit numbers consistently, 600 life/sec really doesn't go that far.

        • reply
          May 23, 2012 10:34 AM

          Yeah, they fucked up the scaling pretty bad.

        • reply
          May 23, 2012 10:37 PM

          It sure as fuck does when you compare it to not having a monk.

      • reply
        May 23, 2012 11:31 AM

        Not in higher difficulties.

    • reply
      May 23, 2012 9:26 AM

      why is character balance important in this game? There's no pvp.....

      • reply
        May 23, 2012 9:30 AM

        PvP later this year..... gotta make sure the characters are prepped for it....

      • reply
        May 23, 2012 9:37 AM

        I thought they were going to add pvp?

        • reply
          May 23, 2012 9:52 AM

          Yeah, and that it would have a different setup--it's not going to be standalone when it comes to gear etc?

        • reply
          May 23, 2012 10:12 AM

          Blizz has no problem having skills work differently in mobs vs players

      • reply
        May 23, 2012 9:40 AM

        [deleted]

        • reply
          May 23, 2012 9:47 AM

          Indeed! "Balance" is impossible when there are millions of stat combinations to crunch...maintenance and tweaks could potentially last forever (see any MMO)

        • reply
          May 23, 2012 10:27 AM

          the problem is that it forces players to play in ways they don't enjoy in order to be more successful. Classes generally let people express their personality, and if one class is too strong, then you piss off players who don't enjoy that class.

        • reply
          May 23, 2012 10:32 AM

          So it's okay if the class you want to play just happens to suck at the game compared to all the other ones?

          • reply
            May 23, 2012 10:35 AM

            [deleted]

          • Ebu legacy 10 years
            reply
            May 23, 2012 12:51 PM

            Why you gotta go to the extreme with it?

            As long as every class can complete the game, and can play at an acceptable level, I think it's perfectly fine if any class (yes, even the one I want to play) is less powerful than some other. Especially because the judges of that are normally the Powergaming 1% who play on an entirely different level (and I'd argue and entirely different game) than I do.

      • reply
        May 23, 2012 9:53 AM

        I think it has more to do with breaking Inferno mode than anything else.

      • reply
        May 23, 2012 10:04 AM

        Because if one class was significantly stronger than the others, players will simply play the class that is clearly the strongest. The game's overall enjoyment suffers as a result because you will have parties of the 4 same characters time and time again. If the classes were both balanced and distinct, you will have more diverse games.

      • reply
        May 23, 2012 10:07 AM

        It was broken, not just overpowered. Same thing with the wizard force armor.

      • reply
        May 23, 2012 10:16 AM

        global economy.

      • reply
        May 23, 2012 10:26 AM

        .....pve...........................

      • reply
        May 23, 2012 11:28 AM

        Why is character balance important in any game?

    • reply
      May 23, 2012 9:29 AM

      i enjoy the bolded 'TWO YEARS IN POLISH'

    • reply
      May 23, 2012 9:40 AM

      lol. As if monks aren't underpowered enough. Our fist weapons suck compared to the swords/maces we can find. Even the one's on the market are lacking in comparison. To further compound things the range one our defensive lines, the one's which offer benefits to our team members, have such piss poor range they're almost pointless. You have to almost literally be standing on top of someone for the heal/serenity shield to hit them. This means only melee class's in the fight are close enough for immediate healing and ranged class's have to hope I can chase them down fast enough to heal them.

      That means those tools are useless for boss fights where damage can come so fast and so hard that a panic button defense skill will only be useful for myself, which completely negates my team role. The role that comes at the expense of damage dealing, and tank. I mean, ffs, I haven't found a single fist weapon worth using so far. Not a single one. I'm running around with swords and punching people with swords in my hand....just, seriously. The rune was hardly even over-powered. My friends and I are all 42-48 and we're getting slaughter in Nightmare Act 3 by specials while I'm running this perk...Over-powered my ass.

      • reply
        May 23, 2012 9:56 AM

        Who cares about if it is a fist weapon or sword, they're functionally the same. All that matters are weapon stats.

        • reply
          May 23, 2012 10:08 AM

          Unless you are looking for very fast attack speed for more procs instead of burst but it's generally not a very good idea in later difficulties.

          • reply
            May 23, 2012 10:25 AM

            sounds weird but i have huge wooden clubs that have faster attack speed than fist weps.

          • reply
            May 23, 2012 10:43 AM

            Shouldn't they have normalized the proc rate like they did in wow?

        • reply
          May 23, 2012 10:30 AM

          Maybe I'd like to have some spirit regen w/o sacrificing hundreds of dps/armor and evades? Is it really too much to ask to have 1 spirit per sec regen w/o giving all that up? You seen how silly it looks to 'punch' someone with a sword? It's a sword, a blade, it's rather long, and I'm going to punch someone with my fists bc my class specific weapons are incapable of offering something of value greater than a random sword?

          It's not even that it's something that nerfs the specific class even. It's that it's completely against what Diablo's been about. The class specific items in D2 all offered something which gave an advantage to the class. Paladin shields gave resistis, sorc items gave +skills, all the while maintaining bonus's that made using them far better than general weapons.

          2% spirit regen is hardly worth giving up 100 dex, 80 vit, 120 str, life steal, AND higher damage. I haven't even see fist weapons in the AH that are better than the random swords my friends and I have found so far. What part of that isn't broken?

          • reply
            May 23, 2012 10:37 AM

            Sword range and fist range are the same. You can get spirit regen on any weapon. You're complaining about animations. Again, who cares?

            • reply
              May 23, 2012 10:56 AM

              Seen plenty of other people care on the forums as well as other game sites.

              I find it rather entertaining that your response to such a fundamental flaw in class specific weaponry and simple animation flaws can be acceptable in a game that's had 10years of time to be developed and a claimed 2 year polish period. In 2 years they didn't fix the weapon animations or make fist weapons better than random swords and that's supposed to be acceptable?

              You're right to some degree about this situation though. A lot of us will stop caring about games from Blizzard after this experience.

              • reply
                May 23, 2012 11:14 AM

                Your argument was framed as a complaint about balance, when in fact it was about weapon animations since there are actually no practical differences between the two. Now you've backpedaled and said it is all about animations. Make up your mind please.

                • reply
                  May 23, 2012 11:55 AM

                  Why exactly would I have to choose one or the other? Or do you not understand that I'm complaining about them both at the same time? You know, you can do that, not like two things at the same time within the same post.

                  • reply
                    May 23, 2012 12:08 PM

                    I totally understand. You complained about something that makes no difference in gameplay and then switched that to a complaint about animations. Got it

                    • reply
                      May 23, 2012 1:45 PM

                      How so? My first two sentences were about balance, and the 3rd one detailed gripes about animations. How did I 'switch' from one to the other? If anything I included both of them within the same post. You act as if I changed stance on something as the forefront of my complaint when that's not what happened.

                      So, what exactly did you get?

                      • reply
                        May 24, 2012 11:46 PM

                        If we ignore the animations thing, your complaint is that weapons that have +spirit regen have lower other stats than items that DON'T have +spirit regen. If this is your complaint, you have a fundamental lack of understanding of how item budgeting works.

              • reply
                May 23, 2012 11:21 AM

                why would fist weapons be better than swords?

                you go grab a pair of brass knuckles, maybe even with some spikes or sharp blades on them. I'll grab a long sword. lets see who wins.

                • reply
                  May 23, 2012 11:53 AM

                  Why would real life have anything to do with a fantasy hack'n slash rpg video game?

            • reply
              May 23, 2012 12:12 PM

              I've never seen spirit regen on anything but monk fists and monk helmets.. Including in AH searches. So I'm pretty sure you're wrong about that.

              • reply
                May 23, 2012 12:25 PM

                Oh yeah, you're right about spirit regen, my bad. Range and all other stats don't matter though.

          • reply
            May 23, 2012 12:05 PM

            There are some good fists on the AH, but they sell out as soon as they are listed, often for more than equivalent dps weapons of other types. Too much demand I guess.

      • reply
        May 23, 2012 10:43 AM

        you are bad at the game, sorry, I soloed NM without touching the AH and it was trivial except for like 4-5 champion packs throughout the entire game

        • reply
          May 23, 2012 12:34 PM

          What was your build?

          • reply
            May 23, 2012 1:23 PM

            I was mixing it up a fair bit. I alternated between FoT and quickening and crippling wave with concussion as my primary generator. I think I used the AoE wave of light early on but found the spirit cost prohibitive and once I had the stun rune for lashing tail kick that was all I used on right click. Serenity with the heal is an obvious choice. I think I was still using mantra of evasion early on, tried conviction, and settled on healing (with circular breathing) as the end of act 4 had some rough champions. I used to use FoT and thunderclap for mobility but ended up using dashing strike a lot more which I mostly had ignored. Then sweeping winds with bladestorm (I liked the spirit regen rune but by act 4 I wasn't get criticals enough to get 3 stacks quickly). Now I'm in act 1 hell and had to hit up the AH to fox my awful DPS (I had like 1400) and augment my survivability somehow

        • reply
          May 23, 2012 1:48 PM

          lol, solo'd. Who cares about solo? GG on doing it solo. You do realize it becomes increasingly difficult as more players are in a game? Apparently it's more difficult based upon the leader of the party too. Maybe you should play with other people and get a feel for class balance outside easy modeing it with solo play? lol

          • reply
            May 23, 2012 2:16 PM

            Yes I've played Diablo before thanks.

            Solo is easy mode according to you. But the hardest difficulty requires grouping according to the people who are good at the game. And Blizzard puts followers in the game to give you help solo when you don't have a group. How do I reconcile these statements?

            Further, everyone else playing monk (and plenty of people who group with them) have recognized their absurdity. They've already had 3 skills nerfed (serenity group rune, MoH shield and quickening) which tells you how Blizzard is feeling about their power level too.

            The only place people have complained about monks being underpowered is in late hell and inferno and that's nothing to do with the monk specifically but rather the general imbalance between ranged and melee classes where barbs are equally underpowered. So yeah, complaining that monks were already underpowered enough prior to nerfing a few even more ridiculous skills is pretty dumb.

            • reply
              May 23, 2012 2:50 PM

              You have played Diablo before? Then why don't you understand that ridiculously powerful skills have been the hallmark of getting uber gear?

              • reply
                May 23, 2012 2:59 PM

                you are really making me question why I started replying... No, having imbalance in the skill system is not an intrinsic part of Diablo. If broken skills are required to beat the game then the game is broken, and I'm pretty sure Blizzard's goal, and the consumers goal, is to not play a broken game. Of course this has nothing to do with your argument for why monk's are underpowered, since now you're railing against these nerfs of ridiculously powerful skills despite simultaneously calling the class very underpowered, contrary to what the majority of players are finding.

                • reply
                  May 23, 2012 3:42 PM

                  My problem here is that my experience so far hasn't pointed to the monk as being overpowered. Some players, like yourself, are claiming that it is overpowered without providing any context or reason.
                  I find it confusing that one could claim anything to be overpowered without first having been in situations that fully test that thing to it's limits. The extent of a toolsets limitations, it's true power, can't be found in easy to manage conflicts. You're basing your opinion on soloing NIghtmare right? That's not the hardest difficult, not the second hardest difficulty. In fact you played at the bottom tier of the difficulty in which you were playing. You can't test something without fully stressing it, and until you do I don't see how anyone could claim to know jack shit about how it plays out in regards to balance without first having experienced situations which are actually truly difficult.

                  I'm still in Nightmare, admittedly, but I've been playing Nightmare with friends, and I'm telling you that the monk isn't overpowered in that situation. What it is is extremely useful, nearly to the point of necessity, for damage reduction, and healing, which in concert with barbarians and other class's allows the monks skills to truly shine.

                  Yet I haven't gotten to Hell yet, let alone Inferno, but from what I hear both Monks and Barbs have issues there, so, personally, I don't see what it matters if Monks were OMGWTFBBQ OP in Norm/NM seeing as after we all get one of each class past NM, hell, get them to 60, we'll NEVER go anywhere else as we'll never have to have any more characters due to how the skillsets function. In d1 it would've mattered, in d2 it would've mattered, but in D3 anyone giving two shits about balance in Norm/NM doesn't really give a shit about balance that matters.

                  • Ebu legacy 10 years
                    reply
                    May 23, 2012 3:57 PM

                    All I have is anecdotal evidence. I'll be playing along, thinking I'm doing pretty good, then one of my many monk friends will drop in and TOTAL. EMASCULATE. ME. :(

                    • reply
                      May 23, 2012 4:19 PM

                      I enjoy being wrong, that then means I can learn to be right. Unfortunately for you what you've said in no way contests my opinion on the matter.

                      If you'd care to show how my experience with a Monk is more limited than your own, or anyone you know, within situations which highlight clearly OP skills, then go ahead. If all you have is lame quips typical of crying carebears populating MMO forums vying for the status of teh nerfest class, perhaps you should reroll IRL, and get back to me.

                      So far, I've been called bad by someone who brag'd about soloing NM, and your pathetic quip that's essentially an imitation of weaksauce trolling which would get laughed out of 4chan.

                      But, like I said, I enjoy being wrong. So if anyone can offer something which isn't complete fail please, do so.

                      • reply
                        May 24, 2012 11:53 PM

                        You managed to touch on so many things that are bad about the Internet in this post.

                  • reply
                    May 23, 2012 4:10 PM

                    The explanation is at a minimum in the builds and skills that were nerfed here. With quickening and sweeping wind active you can refill your spirit from 0 to 150 in seconds mid fight, which allows you to spam Mantra of Healing (with or without the nerfed rune for additional protection) with transcedence as a passive for constant healing. And in the case that isn't sufficient, serenity with a heal, breath of heaven (giving you all +15% damage) and potions give you 3 additional heals including 3 seconds of outright invulnerability (which lets you get your spirit back up to spam MoH again).

                    My DPS may not have melted faces like some other classes but I didn't need to because the skills like that meant i could just grind away at their health perpetually almost never getting in serious danger. I often wouldn't need to pop a potion to kill a boss throughout NM.

                    • reply
                      May 23, 2012 4:31 PM

                      So? I don't have to pop potions to solo NM boss's either. That was 4 levels ago. I go a different route, I go with evades, and dps, and then healing. You went all out healing, so what, a different style of play. What part of your experience involved stressing that setup. Better yet, what part of it even matters in long-term balancing? You tell me people are soloing Hell in equipment which isn't uber then I'll pay attention, if not, why does it matter? NM has never been about being hard, more so while solo, so calling anything OP based upon that context just fails, hard, and has no bearing. This is all further compounded by the fact that Diablo has been and always will be about co-op and the difficulty and rewards found in that experience. Any balance concerns outside of that context is honestly inconsequential to the majority of the Diablo playerbase and as such has no application in regards to balance.

                      This is really all Balancing 101 for anyone who cared to go in-depth with an MMO. I guess that might not be true for WoW players though.

                      • reply
                        May 23, 2012 4:41 PM

                        wtf is this post... you complained monks are underpowered then in response to being shown explicitly how they're not and why it was nerfed, you say, well I don't want to use that build. Great, feel to use whatever build you want, but don't complain if your suboptimal build makes you feel underpowered. This has literally nothing to do with singleplayer vs multiplayer. Tons of us have done both and know how to play. And you're still basing this all on mid level NM play when we have plenty of people who have done that and then much harder content.

                        Keep throwing out WoW quips to make yourself feel better though, as if we all even play it.

                        • reply
                          May 23, 2012 6:34 PM

                          lol. Shown how they're not underpowered...by describing soloing NM by using what was claimed to be over-powered...haha, good one. Next you're going to tell me my build is suboptimal when it does exactly you said made monks OP. To top it off you make fun of a WoW quip which was aimed at making fun of players which show a lack of understanding for game mechanics...which you so thoroughly seemed to have done.

                          I honestly don't get it. You're making fun of my experience as only mid level NM play while trying to vindicate your own opinion from soloing NM, essentially the easiest playthrough of NM possible.

                          This is really all too rich to be trolling, but it's almost too preposterous to be serious.

                          So, tell me, please. R U SRS?

      • reply
        May 23, 2012 10:54 AM

        I love how it's always the classes fault or the skills fault when people can't roll through a game. Have you ever considered that maybe your gear isn't good enough? Or that you're not using the skills properly? Or hell, that you're not even using a good combination of skills?

        There are a lot of monks who don't have this problem. Maybe the problem isn't with the class, but with you and how you're playing.

      • reply
        May 23, 2012 12:19 PM

        I dont understand why the two-handed weapons are just terrible compared to dual wielding. I can take 2 swords that do more damage and have more bonus than any two-handed weapon. That just seems wrong; either the 2H should have significantly more damage, or the bonuses should be double

        • reply
          May 23, 2012 12:23 PM

          There isn't something that can be equipped in the off-hand slot?

          • reply
            May 23, 2012 12:24 PM

            Not always, but the difference between dual-wield and two-handed doesn't seem all that big to me.

            • reply
              May 23, 2012 12:25 PM

              What do you mean "not always" ? Either there's an item that can be equipped in the off-hand slot while using a 2h melee weapon or there's not.

              For 2h ranged weapons, it's the quiver.

              • reply
                May 23, 2012 12:26 PM

                If you equip a 2H melee weapon, you can't equip anything in the off-hand as you're using both slots for the weapon.

                • reply
                  May 23, 2012 12:34 PM

                  That seems like an oversight, then, because the WD, DH, and Wiz classes all have something to put there, even if they're using a 2h weapon.

                  • reply
                    May 23, 2012 12:38 PM

                    I think only the DH can? a 2h crossbow and a quiver, right? I don't think wiz can use a 2H staff and still use an offhand essence but I will check

                    • reply
                      May 23, 2012 12:41 PM

                      lol, didn't know wizards could do that. I wish I knew about this sooner.

                      • reply
                        May 23, 2012 12:42 PM

                        There's a good chance I'm wrong. I haven't played those classes for a month, and now I'm failing to remember what weapons I was using when equipping those things.

                        • reply
                          May 23, 2012 12:43 PM

                          *haven't played those classes for over a month

                      • reply
                        May 23, 2012 12:45 PM

                        I'm 99% sure wiz can't have 2H and an orb or whatever. I think DH can but I don't know.

                        I use a fucking AWESOME wand and an pretty decent offhand at the moment.

                        • reply
                          May 23, 2012 12:46 PM

                          I know the DH can (quiver), which is part of the reason I thought the others could too.

                          • reply
                            May 23, 2012 12:51 PM

                            That was a wild assumption, 2h means 2h

                  • reply
                    May 23, 2012 12:39 PM

                    I dont know; with my monk I have yet to see ANY 2H weapon which has better stats that 2x1H

                    • reply
                      May 23, 2012 12:43 PM

                      I have, I use a Daibo currently with 220dps giving me total damage approaching 3k, and I have a fist/sword with 167dps/114dps, making my total damage ~2500dps, I switch between the 2 depending on the situation

                      • reply
                        May 23, 2012 10:38 PM

                        I find that monk is significantly better with faster attack weapons that have life steal to keep you going. Especially with the teleport fist shit, the dps uptime is so much higher with DW.

                        • reply
                          May 23, 2012 10:42 PM

                          it's not life steal so much as +spirit regen that makes the faster attack speed so useful. But still it seems it's not enough to offset the loss of a shield once you get to the higher difficulties.

                  • reply
                    May 23, 2012 12:40 PM

                    umm what?

                    If I have a staff, I could equip an orb there?

                    • reply
                      May 23, 2012 12:41 PM

                      Can't you?

                      I can't remember now. I haven't played those classes since the beta, but I thought they could...

                      • reply
                        May 23, 2012 12:42 PM

                        I'm not saying they can't because I really don't know. I haven't tried it, but I assumed that 2 hands means that both of your hands are full, like it is done traditionally.

                        Someone, go test this out!

                      • reply
                        May 23, 2012 12:52 PM

                        No, you can't.

                      • reply
                        May 23, 2012 1:46 PM

                        STOP SPREADING LIES.

                      • reply
                        May 23, 2012 10:39 PM

                        DH is the only class that can do this.

                  • reply
                    May 23, 2012 12:42 PM

                    This is not true with WD.

                    You can only use a mojo with a 1 hander.

        • reply
          May 23, 2012 12:36 PM

          dual wielding doesn't seem worth it to me either over using a shield. maybe when i get some other uber gear to cover it, but it's basically just a 15% damage bonus?

          • reply
            May 23, 2012 12:38 PM

            Attack speed bonus

          • reply
            May 23, 2012 12:41 PM

            Not just that (or attack speed bonuses) but the simple fact that having two weapons means you can get more class-exclusive mods (like higher mana regen) and another Weapon gem slot, for more damage / etc.

      • reply
        May 23, 2012 12:51 PM

        You must have negative magic find or something because I've found plenty of fist weapons that are better for me than anything else.

        • reply
          May 23, 2012 2:09 PM

          You find swords with 76 dps, 62 dex 72 int 69 vit 23hp per kill and a chance to blind? or how about 55dps, 123 str, 72 dex 60 int 41 vit chance to blind. I even found one with 105 dex 50 vit 40 int. Do you find fist weapons like those? From what AH browsing I've done I've never seen fist weapons like that, maybe I don't watch it enough, and they sell too fast.

          But if you find fists like that please tell me bc then I'll have some hope that I'll eventually find something worth using.

          • reply
            May 23, 2012 2:31 PM

            No, but I haven't found ANYTHING that does all that so it's not really a fair comparison is it? You claimed you haven't found a single fist weapon worth using and from my experience that's fucking lunacy because I've found about as many fist weapons worth using as I've found other weapons worth using.

            • reply
              May 23, 2012 2:32 PM

              Basically I have a real hard time believing that in the entire time you've played, not a single decent fist weapon has dropped for you unless you have ultra shitty MF.

              • reply
                May 23, 2012 2:53 PM

                Uh, ofc my mf is crappy. Have you played nightmare with 4 players? You'd be hard-pressed using mf gear, especially with a melee class. If you're not buffing defense/dps/vit as much as possible you're going to die far too much to warrant mf gear.

                • reply
                  May 23, 2012 4:03 PM

                  Then that explains why you're having trouble finding exactly what you want. Just like I said in my first damn post in this subthread.

                  If you really have never found one, I'll have to assume you've always had shitty MF, not just in nightmare with 4 players.

          • reply
            May 23, 2012 2:34 PM

            using a half dozen random drops you've seen to prove anything about the itemization in D3 is utterly worthless. It should take you literally 5 seconds to find fist weapons that are better than that on the AH, especially since adding int and str aren't worthwhile modifiers, and a trivial amount of hp per kill and chance to blind are entirely forgettable affixes as well (you have better skills for doing both of those things regularly)

            • reply
              May 23, 2012 3:03 PM

              5 seconds, okay, brb.....there are some nice fists, but nothing that truly compares, at least, nothing with a buyout price, and I don't bother with bid wars, those are boring, imo.

              • reply
                May 23, 2012 3:19 PM

                I have a pretty hard time believing you can't find a fist with better than 55 dps and some dex and vitality on it. I really question whether you know what to look for when you list great weapons with their int and str bonus rather than mentioning actually important things like sockets

                • reply
                  May 23, 2012 5:21 PM

                  They both have sockets, I didn't bother to mention this as the damage is already added, at least it is IG. It seems that the character viewer from login doesn't add the damage, and I was too busy to remember the stats aren't what I had IG. Needless to say with a perfect Ruby the damage goes to 90 and 70, respectably.

                  As to mocking Int and Str I find that laughable. Int gives me resists, which matter, str is just pure armor, which I'd ofc drop for more vit or dex, but, that's not something I've yet found. There are nice fists on AH, but none with such a good balance of stats. I could gain some boosts in dps, but that'd require spending gold on items that I'd no doubt replace later on...with better swords. I don't plan to start buying equipment through the auction house until I'm in Hell, with the rest of my friends. Part of the fun in Diablo is finding better equipment and I intend to enjoy that to it's fullest until Hell where it will become far more beneficial to engage in trade.

                  Even then, I might not bother too much. Sharing drops with my friends and basically fitting each other out has an appeal and experience that greed and trade can't compare with.

                  • reply
                    May 23, 2012 5:31 PM

                    You are just all over the place. Int and Str are completely ignorable stats in NM. Even in hell if you need more resists and armor you do it via +resist gear and higher armor pieces (and passives like 100% dex as armor) not by getting "well rounded" gear with int and str, the bonus is negligible (especially since with One With Everything you don't need int for all resists, just gear stacking one). Yes you absolutely should ignore those stats for something with better dps/dex/vit.

                    If you don't want to use the AH that's fine, but upgrades are there and they're cheap. That you haven't found sufficient rare fists all by yourself proves nothing. I haven't found a good rare monk specific helm yet, so what? I'm not whining about helms being poorly itemized, that's how random and rarity works.

                    • reply
                      May 23, 2012 6:14 PM

                      You act as if I've found better weapons. I haven't. I'm using the best armor and weapons I've found. I haven't found any fists with high dex&vit stats. You keep going off about the best equipment that someone should ideally use. I'm using what I've found and I haven't found any weapons with higher damage/dex/vit stats than what I'm using.

                      I'm playing with friends and we're sharing loot so everyone get's fitted as best as they can, with what we find. This'll become a habit, a system of behavior even, where we become accustomed to immediately sharing resources that'll benefit us as a group in ways no lonewolf with randoms on their friend list can compare to.

                      Even those of us who fall behind find themselves suddenly upgraded with hand-me downs from those who have continued to play and, as a group, we're more successful because of it and each of us benefits even further from that success. That's something you can't buy at the Auction House.

                      Whatever, things have gone so far off-topic I'm not sure which issues should even be discussed anymore, or what point can now be made by discussing them further.

                      The better question right now is why the hell are we arguing over D3 instead of playing it.....

                      • reply
                        May 23, 2012 6:43 PM

                        No, I'm saying it's simply the nature of the game that a small sample (like you and your friends) might not find exactly what you want/need and that's why trading was always a part of Diablo. That you haven't found fists as your best weapon option is just the nature of the system. If every few levels you checked the AH and fists there were never a viable option next to the best swords/axes/whatever then there'd maybe be something to complain about on that front. Sometimes a fist will be your best weapon for a bit, then an axe, then a mace, then a... etc.

                        In any case, the only super important reason to use fists is for the class specific affixes. If it doesn't have +spirit regen or whatever then it's just a matter of flavor. It's like wizards complaining that wizard hats aren't always their best gear instead of other types of helms. It happens. If you want a badass fist it can be had, at least you're not a total slave to random drops. You could also try crafting them eventually.

                        • reply
                          May 23, 2012 7:05 PM

                          Basically yes, but crafting...It was fun for awhile but it's inherently flawed. The weapons you get from crafting are rather crappy, and the cost involved means it's cheaper just to save gold and buy items from the AH. Crafting in D3 sucks and it's a wonder they didn't just keep crafting as it was in D2 given how terrible and pointless it is in D3....w/e more off-topic discussion. I'm done, tired, going to just chill out...too much conflict today.

                          • reply
                            May 23, 2012 10:43 PM

                            Not that I'm saying crafting is good, but I just hit 36 on my monk and made the rare fist weapons from the BS, two of them. Both had dex/vit on them with life steal AND a socket, lol. Stuck a gigantic ruby in there and now I have some ~90dps weapons.

                            • reply
                              May 24, 2012 6:25 PM

                              wish I had your luck, crafted 6 of them and all sucked ><

              • reply
                May 23, 2012 10:41 PM

                You cannot compare 2h damage on a monk to DW. Damage uptime on faster attack wouldn't even do the character panel number justice.

      • reply
        May 23, 2012 11:32 PM

        Noticed on my monk at the seigebreaker if I hit MoH with the boon rune I took no damage from the attack where he grabs and slams you. Took not one ounce of damage from that fight today.

    • reply
      May 23, 2012 10:32 AM

      I really feel useless playing as a Wizard. I'm constantly switching up builds, trying to figure out something that does the most damage.

      • reply
        May 23, 2012 11:29 AM

        I'm kicking ass in early hell using the signature lightning spell, the lighting passive, glass cannon, lightning hydra, blizzard, diamond skin and mirror image. Maybe you need to buy a new weapon on the AH.

        • reply
          May 23, 2012 11:43 AM

          I WOULD IF IT WASN'T FUCKING DOWN :((((((

      • reply
        May 23, 2012 11:32 AM

        I thought wizzy was the nuke class?

        • reply
          May 23, 2012 12:07 PM

          It's diablo. Everything is a nuke class.

      • reply
        May 23, 2012 11:37 AM

        yeah, same. After rolling through hilariously fast with my barb playing wizard is a totally different game. I'm so squishy. The fight with the skeleton king took forever, where I'm not sure I even remember him summoning skeletons when I fought him with the barbarian.

      • reply
        May 23, 2012 12:18 PM

        So, every skill that made inferno doable has been nerfed into the ground. Umm... Great?

        • reply
          May 23, 2012 12:22 PM

          Pretty much.

          Although, based on blue comments, this doesn't seem completely permanent -- more of a quick change to keep the economy in check before they figure out how to really fix it.

        • reply
          May 23, 2012 12:39 PM

          No changes to barbarian, are you saying barbarians can't do inferno?

          • reply
            May 23, 2012 2:07 PM

            Everyone is saying that the melee classes suck in inferno, myself included. Monks had some tricks, but they're all being fixed, so that leaves melee useless.

            And I play 95% of my Diablo 3 time with a barbarian. He's now got over 6k armor and 37k hp. All of his resists (including physical) are around 60% or a little above. He regularly gets killed in 1 or 2 hits by normal white mobs in Act 1 Inferno. So yeah, barbarians aren't really viable in Inferno imo.

      • reply
        May 23, 2012 12:49 PM

        I'm not even sure what they're saying in regard to the Force Armor change. Sounds like it's not doing anything.

        • reply
          May 23, 2012 12:54 PM

          Sounds like if you're supposed to get hit for an attack X > (0.35 * HP), you'll get hit for max(X - HP, 0.35 * HP).

        • reply
          May 23, 2012 12:54 PM

          Say your Wizard has 100 HP. Before, if you got hit for 250 damage, you'd only take 35 damage. Now you'll take 150 damage. So you'll die in one-shot with Force Amour up if you take more than 199% of your HP pool as damage.

          • reply
            May 23, 2012 12:55 PM

            Or if you have 100 HP and get for 99 HP, you'll only take 35 damage.

        • reply
          May 23, 2012 12:59 PM

          Yea, can someone translate for me?

    • reply
      May 23, 2012 12:10 PM

      What's the cheapest way to get the game currently? Are there any retailers who have it on sale?

    • reply
      May 23, 2012 12:41 PM

      I'm a 52 Monk in Hell, and I approve of these changes. The rest of you need to quite honestly play better.

      • reply
        May 23, 2012 12:42 PM

        ya bro, l2p

        • reply
          May 23, 2012 12:45 PM

          or just play more, and bitch less, a good number of complaints and issues raised here and on blizz forums, have to do with people who haven't invested enough time to even know what they're talking about

          • reply
            May 23, 2012 1:04 PM

            Works both ways...people complain something is OP, Blizz habitually nerfs it...

      • reply
        May 23, 2012 1:01 PM

        So I take it you got as far as Inferno withour using said ability?

      • reply
        May 23, 2012 1:01 PM

        Haha, you're just a noob. Get to inferno and we can talk about playing better.

        • reply
          May 23, 2012 1:05 PM

          Indeed! The game has only been out for a week and I have a job:)

          • reply
            May 23, 2012 1:07 PM

            Oops, my mistake...how do I edit posts on here? Lol

            • reply
              May 23, 2012 1:08 PM

              You don't edit posts here, and welcome to the Shack I guess :)

        • reply
          May 23, 2012 1:07 PM

          I'll be there tonight after work, and I'll hold you to it. And no, Draingored, I use it situationally, and I laughed at my friends who were using it constantly and couldn't survive without it, and then I laughed at them when they got mad at the nerf, meanwhile I didn't slow down at all in my build because I never relied on an ability I judged overpowered all the way back in Normal.

          • reply
            May 23, 2012 1:15 PM

            Fair enough. And I just proved how much of a noob I am by mis-posting on what I thought was directed at me. :) I'll be more careful from now on. Also, thanks for the tips...I am far from figuring this game out!

            • reply
              May 23, 2012 1:18 PM

              We're all far from figuring this game out, some of us just enjoy arguments :)

            • reply
              May 23, 2012 6:55 PM

              new guy? a and z to navigate the posts. Download Lamp for your computer and you can also use x and s to navigate threads.

              • reply
                May 24, 2012 5:26 PM

                Thx, it is a bit confusing. Did they just add the FB login option?

                • reply
                  May 24, 2012 6:39 PM

                  yeah but you don't have to use it

      • reply
        May 23, 2012 2:11 PM

        Ok Flanders.

    • reply
      May 23, 2012 2:21 PM

      Classic Blizzard balance and polish.

      • reply
        May 23, 2012 2:31 PM

        lol no dev team can ever hope to out test a bunch of sperging min-maxing nerds.

        • reply
          May 23, 2012 2:53 PM

          "it was quite simply a mistake on our part to let the rune ship as it was"

          • reply
            May 23, 2012 3:01 PM

            And how is that "Classic Blizzard balance and polish" ?

            • reply
              May 23, 2012 3:17 PM

              Sarcasm

              • reply
                May 23, 2012 3:24 PM

                You don't say.

              • reply
                May 23, 2012 3:26 PM

                Here's another for you. "Players can no longer dual-wield two-handed weapons" Ba ha ha ha ha ha http://us.battle.net/d3/en/blog/5825330

                • reply
                  May 23, 2012 3:28 PM

                  Diablo 3 is the first piece of software in history to have bugs.

                  • reply
                    May 23, 2012 3:40 PM

                    The monk thing is a balance issue, but the dual-wield issue makes me wonder if they did any qa testing at all.

                    • reply
                      May 23, 2012 3:50 PM

                      does it? does it REALLY make you wonder if they had zero QA testers on the game?

                      • reply
                        May 23, 2012 3:55 PM

                        There were probably, what? Eight bugs in Diablo 3 ever? And they missed this one?

                        Bush league shit right here.

                        • reply
                          May 23, 2012 4:16 PM

                          I'm disappointed it even had 8 bugs to begin with. That's amateur hour right there.

                          • reply
                            May 23, 2012 4:19 PM

                            I bet they compiled the game code more than once prior to May 15.

                            Completely unacceptable.

                            • reply
                              May 23, 2012 4:20 PM

                              How many man hours do you think were wasted compiling? I bet they could have released two years earlier if they'd just programmed it right the first time.

          • reply
            May 23, 2012 3:14 PM

            so because most devs don't admit this it isn't the case in tons of other games too?

          • reply
            May 23, 2012 11:36 PM

            honestly there are... how many freaking runes in the game? and one turns out to be unbalanced? that's pretty good I think.

        • reply
          May 23, 2012 2:54 PM

          I kinda like the rough balance of ARPG games. They;re not competative games so it doesn't matter too much. If they balance to the extent of WoW or SC then isn't that gonna dilute some of the fun of the abilities? Min Maxing isnt really fun

          • reply
            May 23, 2012 3:12 PM

            WoW balance. That's funny.

            • reply
              May 23, 2012 3:45 PM

              In wow though, if you want to be useful you need to pick the best possible set of items and skills and there is very little variation.
              I don't really like doing that In SP/co-op RPG's I just wanna build a cool character type and hit things

              • reply
                May 23, 2012 4:15 PM

                And with the difficulty of Inferno mode, you have to min max and use the OP build.

          • reply
            May 23, 2012 3:23 PM

            isn't min maxing the entire point of the game though?

        • reply
          May 23, 2012 2:58 PM

          I expected some balancing issues. That said, stealth knee jerk patching was a terrible response.

          • reply
            May 23, 2012 3:34 PM

            I liked when they nerfed monks while that one group was trying to be the first to complete inferno. Talk about a knee-jerk reaction (it probably should have been done, but it was hilariously done to stop the one group for succeeding).

            I'm guessing they would have hotfixed corpse chaining if they could have done it in time, but it is probably more complicated than changing a value in a database.

    • reply
      May 23, 2012 3:18 PM

      Be careful about non-weapon items with "attack speed modifiers". Some items are not working correctly at the moment.

      https://www.google.com/search?q="Increases+attack+speed"+"attack+speed+increased"
      (working hotlink to above search http://tinyurl.com/c3u67vt )

      • reply
        May 23, 2012 3:21 PM

        why are you linking to a search query instead of an actual source for how exactly it isn't working?

        • reply
          May 23, 2012 3:34 PM

          Because there are multiple threads about it?

    • reply
      May 23, 2012 7:51 PM

      I hope this patch gets released soon - Blizzard just made the mantra of healing and boon of protection completely useless.

      First the Paladins of D2, then the Paladins of WoW, and now D3's monk. I gotta stop playing holy characters in Blizzard games - they're total nerf-bait.

      Oh well, I was playing too much anyway - good excuse for a break

      • reply
        May 24, 2012 2:44 AM

        Agreed, there's now no reason whatsoever to pick any of the two runes nerfed - let alone the mantra itself.

    • reply
      May 29, 2012 5:40 PM

      when will they nerf revenge? that shit is too powerful

    • reply
      May 29, 2012 11:03 PM

      What this about the Monk or Barbarian not being as "bad off as they seem."

      They haven't seemed "bad off" to me so far. Weird.

Hello, Meet Lola