Morning Discussion

Xav's away today and Brian is off at BlizzCon but we're all friends here, okay, so let's take today nice and slow, just see what happens, no pressure, until Blizzard unexpectedly announces Diablo 3 is on store shelves today and everyone there has (CD) keys under their chair or that Warcraft IV has become a Facebook game. Then we can get excited.

I can hardly wait for the weekend to begin as I'm going to a Twin Peaks marathon, where from 11:15am on Saturday till 6:40pm on Sunday I shall watch every episode of David Lynch's weird and brilliant TV series from the comfort of an arts centre floor while dressed as David Duchovny when he was dressed as a gentleman dressed as a lady dressed as a gentleman. If Monday's Morning Discussion is gibberish--more than usual, anyway--you'll know I had a fab time or my mind broke. Either way, it'll be great.

The official theme of today is run-on sentences while the official soundtrack is the bizarre/terrible/wonderful/astounding youth version of Devo, Dev2.0. Hey, here's what Devo has to say about the project. I say Whip It.

Indie Superstar, part of AaaaaAAaaaAAAaaAAAAaAAAAA!!! - A Reckless Disregard for Gravity developer Dejobaan Games, wants to find out who plays indie games. Please complete their survey to help science.

From The Chatty

  • reply
    October 22, 2010 5:00 AM

    Friday Morning MineShock/Biocraft Thread!
    GotY Edition!!!

    What I like most about Biocraft is that it manages to effortlessly combine the complex ideals expressed by Ayn Rand with the playful simplicity of children’s building blocks. Truly, if games can be art, than Biocraft is this (console) generation’s equivalent of the Sistine Chapel.

    Multiplayer Servers!
    MercFox1 : shackeast.sytes.net
    Shadowdane : shadowdane.shacknet.nu
    Chicken Fur : 69.169.149.253
    m0rfus (PvP/Mobs on) : morfus.dyndns.org
    Haxim (TNT Server) : asplode.dyndns.org

    Teamspeak : ts.shackbattles.com:9987

    Now, I know a lot of you are stuck in the first level, so here’s a walkthrough if you feel like cheating. Be sure to watch it in 720p or you’re going to miss a lot of important details!
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNxcxnKYPOc

      • reply
        October 22, 2010 5:16 AM

        Wh0a, someone traveled far north east on MercFox's server.

        • foo
          reply
          October 22, 2010 6:30 AM

          Yeah, it happens.. They've actually gone WAY more north than that, I just don't render it because it's a waste of space

    • reply
      October 22, 2010 5:01 AM

      Gameplay Guides and Help
      - Check out (and help with) the Shackwiki Minecraft page!
      http://shackwiki.com/wiki/Minecraft

      - Map your levels with Oizomapper, by mroizo40!
      http://www.shacknews.com/laryn.x?id=24100023#itemanchor_24100023

      Video Guides!
      - (Series) X's Adventures in Minecraft! Linked by zuff!
      http://tinyurl.com/2ah7sex
      Lots of useful info in here!

      - (Series) Minecraft Minecart Tutorials! Boosters! Track switches! Et cetera!
      http://tinyurl.com/2udl2lt

      - Water Physics Tutorial by Arctic Fox!
      http://www.shacknews.com/laryn.x?id=24127669#itemanchor_24127669

      Written Guides!
      - Beginner’s Guides to Minecraft, originally linked by at0micgarden!
      (Work in Progress) Guide to Alpha: http://www.minecraftforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=17021
      How to Survive Your First Night: http://www.minecraftforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=19065

      Shacker Help!
      - Things I Wish I’d Known, a retrospective by Ebu!
      http://www.shacknews.com/laryn.x?id=23608826#itemanchor_23608826

      - Linkmania! By zuff!
      http://www.shacknews.com/laryn.x?id=23514788#itemanchor_23514788
      http://www.shacknews.com/laryn.x?id=23533536#itemanchor_23533536


      - Ores, and How to Find Them, by Fooldozer and CodeRedBeard!
      http://www.shacknews.com/laryn.x?id=23582115#itemanchor_23582115

      - Multiplayer Tips from BlackCat9
      http://www.shacknews.com/laryn.x?id=23641449#itemanchor_23641449

      - Circle guides! More useful than they sound!
      http://www.agentpothead.com/minecraft/sphere.html linked/hosted by AgentPothead!
      http://www.shackpics.com/files/radii_even_to_100_pgzh2n77iabkgcmee93q.png hosted by Arctic Fox!

      - Beginner’s Guide to Redstone, links by The Grolar Bear!
      http://www.shacknews.com/laryn.x?id=24044649#itemanchor_24044649

      - And some generally useful keys to press!
      F11 - full screen!
      F3 (hold) - CPU/ memory usage bar! Spikes for CPU/ red box for memory, I think!
      F5 - third person mode!

    • reply
      October 22, 2010 5:02 AM

      Oh my, that post is a little bigger than I thought it would be.

      • reply
        October 22, 2010 6:47 AM

        thanks for ruining my shacknews you cockbarge

      • reply
        October 22, 2010 7:32 AM

        Damnit Dong, you act like some newb, don't you know to put the wall of text in reply yet????

    • reply
      October 22, 2010 5:04 AM

      It's been a while since I've played. It's such an addictive game that once I start to play it's hard to stop. But now that I haven't played in a week I don't have such a strong urge to play.

      I still can't wait to see and play the boo update.

      • reply
        October 22, 2010 5:18 AM

        I'm really hoping that the update will bring some type of more aggressive monsters. Right now you can just build a house, put a door in and be in no danger whatsoever from mobs during the night.
        It's fun to build walls and towers and devise some kind of defense, but there's no point in doing it because the mobs can't even break down a wall made of wool.
        Can't wait for suicide creepers attacking your fortress ! But I hope he'll implement some kind of automatic defense so I don't have to watch my shit constantly either.

        • reply
          October 22, 2010 5:25 AM

          There was talk from Notch at one point about zombie hordes that can smash blocks, the coming of which would be "heralded by a blood moon rising" if I remember correctly. Also, one of the listed features of the Halloween Update is new, tougher mobs!

          And if you wanted you could just build a house in the Hell dimension to make the game extra hard.

          • reply
            October 22, 2010 5:29 AM

            it'd just be nice to have some kind of challenge while at the surface, for the time being the only challenge is exploring caves.
            I'd rather he implement something like this then create hell. If I want to build I'll play on peaceful and otherwise I expect at least some kind of fight from the mobs running around during the night. No need to add a whole new setting at this point yet IMO

            • reply
              October 22, 2010 6:43 AM

              He's said that in his grand plan, he'd rather the game be too hard than not hard enough, so I imagine he'll address this at some point. He's already leaning towards ramping the difficulty somewhat by making monsters spawn at progressively greater light levels, the deeper you go (mentioned in the boo update) and then there is things like the new monster, the Wight (I have a sneaking suspicion it's gonna be able to pass through walls, though it'll probably be limited to Hell or certain blocks if so).

              • reply
                October 22, 2010 6:53 AM

                sorry Ghasts. Also this should give you comfort:

                ProtoMith
                @notch Have you killed a Ghast yet?

                notch
                Markus Persson
                @ProtoMith Without a bow? No. It is possible now, though. I think.

      • reply
        October 22, 2010 7:01 AM

        Same, haven't played for a little over a week now and it's kind of nice not having that burning desire to do so all day. Also very refreshing to play other games again. But, I'm still really looking forward to the Halloween update and I'll definitely be playing again when it comes out.

    • reply
      October 22, 2010 5:32 AM

      Mod here to fix the far distance thing: http://www.minecraftforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=1013&t=53863

    • reply
      October 22, 2010 5:58 AM

      the server portal stuff sounds sweet - Shadowdane and MercFox1 should link their servers.

      • reply
        October 22, 2010 6:10 AM

        there should be a giant dong stretching through the gate

    • reply
      October 22, 2010 6:44 AM

      FIRE! Someone's nice wooden pyramid is burning all the fuck up on Merc's server:

      http://i51.tinypic.com/2yp0nc9.jpg

      Couple clicks west of Duke City. I'm going to try dumping water on it & see if I can control it :(

      • reply
        October 22, 2010 6:45 AM

        Don't do that! It's supposed to be on fire.

        My floating island of crap is right next to that

        • reply
          October 22, 2010 6:47 AM

          Yeah scratch that - the fire didn't show up on the render so I thought someone had lit that shit up.

          Move along, nothing to see here.

          • foo
            reply
            October 22, 2010 6:57 AM

            Thanks for being on top of things, though.

            • reply
              October 22, 2010 1:54 PM

              That burning pyramid has been burning at least a month though.

              • foo
                reply
                October 22, 2010 2:03 PM

                Yeah, I'm just saying thanks for jumping to the thread and alerting people about a possible fire

              • reply
                October 22, 2010 4:04 PM

                I just started playing on the server again...

      • reply
        October 22, 2010 2:53 PM

        someone already dumped water on it. That's why the middle bits aren't on fire :(

        • reply
          October 22, 2010 3:01 PM

          Have an admin come out and relight it. Just message Arctic Fox when you're in game. Or SM if he isn't on.

      • reply
        October 22, 2010 7:02 AM

        Lava sets wood on fire.

      • reply
        October 22, 2010 7:03 AM

        what a retard

      • reply
        October 22, 2010 7:16 AM

        That house would take what - 10 minutes to build? What a dork.

      • reply
        October 22, 2010 9:13 AM

        One time we tried to build a moat around our house. Problem was, pigs, chickens were collecting in the moat and making a TERRIBLE noise. We had no way to kill them. So we decided to replace the water with lava. Turns out, the lava needs to have TWO BUFFER BRICKS below the wooden house....or it will catch frrrrrrrr

    • reply
      October 22, 2010 7:13 AM

      10 minutes into my work day and I already want to be home playing Minecraft. Last night I started building a tunnel under the middle waterway on Shadowdane's server. At one point I decided to dig up and check my progress (plugging behind me to prevent flooding). Thinking I was halfway across, I got to the surface to find I had barely reached the short shore. This might take me a week. :(

      • reply
        October 22, 2010 7:21 AM

        I want to get playing but I feel so tired :/

        • reply
          October 22, 2010 10:03 AM

          Suck a cock, get rejuvenated and back in the game!

          • reply
            October 22, 2010 11:31 AM

            Done and done, cock suckings and the works. I managed to continue my megaproject.

    • reply
      October 22, 2010 7:18 AM

      was it decided that we would be refreshed the nerfblox1 server after the halloween update?

      • reply
        October 22, 2010 7:20 AM

        no, if anything the opposite. If people want a fresh start we might move the spawn though.

        • reply
          October 22, 2010 7:24 AM

          :(

          • foo
            reply
            October 22, 2010 7:25 AM

            There's really no need to restart since we can just move spawn, so turn that frown upside down

        • foo
          reply
          October 22, 2010 7:24 AM

          Correct. If there's enough of a desire for it, we'll just move /spawn to another location, then just build a portal between the two locations so people can go back and forth

          • reply
            October 22, 2010 7:25 AM

            but but but biomes!!

            • foo
              reply
              October 22, 2010 7:27 AM

              It has been said that biomes will work on existing worlds, they just won't get seen unless you go to a new (unexplored) territory. If that's true (which we have yet to see), then we'll just move /spawn.

              If it's not true, and everyone really really wants biomes, then I guess we can put it to a server-wide vote on whether or not we should restart.

              • reply
                October 22, 2010 7:28 AM

                yeah, i suppose since there will be portals it won't be too bad to travel between the new zone and the old one but i'd like to see everything biome'd rather than having an old area and a new one. we shall see!

          • reply
            October 22, 2010 7:32 AM

            I like this idea. I propose an expedition across the map to the new portal location on the day of the new update. We can cross the world and discover new biomes and link them to our home continent.

          • reply
            October 22, 2010 11:54 AM

            will you be generating two sets of maps?

            • foo
              reply
              October 22, 2010 3:56 PM

              I'd have to, current renders are too big as it is

      • reply
        October 22, 2010 7:26 AM

        Dear ass-street,

        You are a cool dude, and I hate to pick on you, but I made a warning a few days ago:

        http://www.shacknews.com/laryn.x?id=24272351#itemanchor_24272351

    • reply
      October 22, 2010 7:27 AM

      how come I can never get on the shack servers? always get a connection timed out error

    • reply
      October 22, 2010 7:38 AM

      Someone needs to port minecraft to iOS. I have a craving to place blox!!!!

      • reply
        October 22, 2010 8:18 AM

        AFAIK Java will never be on the IPhone.

        • reply
          October 22, 2010 8:23 AM

          Yeah didn't Apple 'deprecate' it or something yesterday?

          • reply
            October 22, 2010 8:26 AM

            Something about how they'll never allow java apps on their mac os app store (or anything that doesn't use the apple api.)

            • foo
              reply
              October 22, 2010 8:27 AM

              Which is good. Java is great for portability, but horrible for performance.

              • reply
                October 22, 2010 10:55 AM

                WTF would you know about anything. Java won us the War in the Pacific.

    • reply
      October 22, 2010 7:38 AM

      I don't know the server's feeling a little stale, I think it's time for a redux. Let's get Merc v5.0 going sometime between 11/1/10 and 11/7/10.

    • reply
      October 22, 2010 7:41 AM

      Man it's cool, but Im still having trouble finding my way around the hugeness that is mercfox's world, although through some helpful shackers, I've learned the utlility of /compass and /getpos, but now to figure out how to get where I want to get on that render...sheesh

      • reply
        October 22, 2010 7:43 AM

        Just ask for a server reset, all the cool kids are!

        • Zek
          reply
          October 22, 2010 7:45 AM

          Why would you do that now? Wait for biomes IMO.

          • reply
            October 22, 2010 7:47 AM

            This is 'Set EricZBA Off Day' so all posters should request a server reset and extoll the virtues of ShackDroid's WatchThread feature!

            • reply
              October 22, 2010 7:48 AM

              [lol] [inf] [wtf]

            • foo
              reply
              October 22, 2010 7:54 AM

              I wish today was April 1. I'd load up a new world for 12 hours or so and watch the chatty go into meltdown

              • reply
                October 22, 2010 7:56 AM

                Ok, I had to LOL this.

              • reply
                October 22, 2010 8:00 AM

                Hahaha, then blame Oizomapper. :P

              • Zek
                reply
                October 22, 2010 8:07 AM

                and then everybody would realize it's actually great and be disappointed

                • foo
                  reply
                  October 22, 2010 8:11 AM

                  So it's a double-April Fools then. Win-win, basically. I'm cool with that.

              • reply
                October 22, 2010 8:25 AM

                rofl

              • reply
                October 22, 2010 8:27 AM

                It would play out something like this:

                *logs in to server*
                BBBRRAUUUUUAAMMMMMMMMMMMMMM
                *eye twitch*
                BBBRRAUUUUUAAMMMMMMMMMMMMMM
                *double eye twitch*
                BBBRRAUUUUUAAMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

                FFFFFFFFFFFFFOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

                • reply
                  October 22, 2010 8:33 AM

                  hahahahhaha

                • reply
                  October 22, 2010 9:23 AM

                  HAHAHAHAHAHA

                • reply
                  October 22, 2010 9:40 AM

                  LOLOL

                  You forgot:

                  *pulls out totem*
                  BBBBBRRRAAAUUUUUUUMMMMMMMMM
                  *totem functions properly*
                  FFFFFFFFFFFOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

                  • reply
                    October 22, 2010 2:37 PM

                    I havent seen the movie yet so I dont know wtf totems do

              • reply
                October 22, 2010 10:47 AM

                lol yea, and tell them the spawn point just moved, and ask everyone to go find it

              • reply
                October 22, 2010 12:27 PM

                i'd love a reset. i'd like to see everyone build completely new stuff.

                • foo
                  reply
                  October 22, 2010 12:55 PM

                  Why? What's the point? This world has only been open for a little over a month and look at it. Why would we ever want to start from scratch? Nobody wants to throw away all of their hard work.

                  • reply
                    October 22, 2010 1:30 PM

                    Devil's advocate: I think a reset is justifiable in the event that (dangerous) mobs are enabled in SMP, because it fundamentally changes the way that you approach building a structure -- you're building for protection, not to make some crazy mythical thing like Isengard out of Lego.

                    Also, Hell, and the existence of /sethome, would probably change the population density somewhat. It'd be interesting seeing how the server unfolds differently, given these conditions.

                    Of course, I'd fully recommend that we put any big decision like this to a vote among the server populace.

                    • reply
                      October 22, 2010 1:33 PM

                      Yes, Arctic Fox has been converted to the proper way of thinking! Also, with the reset, we can re-enable everything, since it's looking more and more like we need to!

                    • reply
                      October 22, 2010 1:33 PM

                      I think I'd rather have the Mercfox server remain the way it is, as people have really put a lot of time into it.

                      If dangerous mobs are added to MP I'd rather have a different server where the game play is more survival based and construction is for safety rather than aesthetics.

                      • reply
                        October 22, 2010 1:41 PM

                        Yea, this.

                        If we could have 2 servers, Mercfox for building (maybe disable monsters?) and a new one for survival.

                        • reply
                          October 22, 2010 1:44 PM

                          Well this plays into what Notch has (sort of) said that he's planning for the final game: http://www.shacknews.com/laryn.x?id=24166829

                          Our current server is basically a 'Creative' server. The second would be a 'Survival' server. There's pros and cons to each mode, and I'd like to see Notch bring Creative up to parity so that gamers who enjoy either mode can get their fix.

                          • reply
                            October 22, 2010 3:51 PM

                            if up to parity means "infinite" terrain instead of a limited flat plane like creative is now (AFAIK) that'd be decent. A mix of the two. I just happen to really like how it is now

                    • reply
                      October 22, 2010 3:03 PM

                      "changing the way people approach building a structure" would get rid of what makes the server cool. I don't want to see cobblestone redoubts everywhere. I like seeing the variety in what people have built. Pagoda, Isengard, Millenium Falcon etc. If I don't get to wander around and see cool shit I might as well be playing SP

      • reply
        October 22, 2010 7:44 AM

        I treat it like navigating the wilderness. You have a compass, a terrain map, and a general overhead map, and using all three, you can figure out where you are. I would be completely lost without the maps.

      • reply
        October 22, 2010 7:47 AM

        landmarks

        • reply
          October 22, 2010 7:49 AM

          yea, I just started using the angled view, and it's a lot more helpful than overhead it seems

      • reply
        October 22, 2010 7:52 AM

        i just don't leave my house :(

        • foo
          reply
          October 22, 2010 3:59 PM

          Welcome to my life :(

      • reply
        October 22, 2010 7:57 AM

        There are more signs on this server than carter had oats man, come on.

      • reply
        October 22, 2010 7:58 AM

        Awesome, we're definitely going to need a server reset for this!

      • reply
        October 22, 2010 7:59 AM

        A winner is you!

      • reply
        October 22, 2010 7:59 AM

        ha they sorta look like the floating aliens from duke3d

        • reply
          October 22, 2010 8:00 AM

          also is that a portal in the background???

          • reply
            October 22, 2010 8:01 AM

            Yes, read the article :)

            You make a portal by making a frame of obsidian and then lighting the ground on fire O_O

      • reply
        October 22, 2010 8:00 AM

        I think he should make portals harder to craft, like put a diamond block in the middle surrounded by the obsidian

        • reply
          October 22, 2010 8:01 AM

          i'm wondering how these portals will work.

          an identical portal will be created at the equivalent spot in the hell dimension

          that doesn't sound like it will allow for fast-traveling at all

          • reply
            October 22, 2010 8:04 AM

            No, you need a second portal somewhere else to fast travel. You go into a portal, walk 10 blocks, create another portal in hell, then step into it. Now you're back on the surface, only 160 blocks away.

            • reply
              October 22, 2010 8:04 AM

              i just don't understand what will determine where the portal is in hell vs the real world

              • reply
                October 22, 2010 8:05 AM

                ah ok. i just read that part of the article. i'm at work and was just skimming it

              • reply
                October 22, 2010 8:06 AM

                I think if you walked straight for a few blocks and built another portal you just multiply the blocks you walked by 16 and you come up into the world the result of that equation away from your first portal.

        • reply
          October 22, 2010 8:05 AM

          Obsidian is pretty tough to get, especially in single player. I think crafting with obsidian is already hard, or at least much harder than normal recipes.

          • reply
            October 22, 2010 8:07 AM

            at 15 seconds to break an obsidian rock with a diamond pick I'd say so, plus you'd need to take some with you into hell to make another portal out.

            • reply
              October 22, 2010 8:14 AM

              Imagine trying to portal out while under fire. That's going to get intense.

          • reply
            October 22, 2010 12:06 PM

            I wonder if portals can be made by casting obsidian in place instead of harvesting it and placing it. That would be much nicer.

            • Zek
              reply
              October 22, 2010 12:20 PM

              I'm sure it can, but you need one lava spring block per obsidian and unlike water they can't be duplicated(without bugs).

              • reply
                October 22, 2010 1:35 PM

                I was thinking I'd rather mine down to a lava pool and carry it up with buckets way more than I'd like to burn diamond tools mining it. It's not really efficient, but it beats mining for obsidian.

        • reply
          October 22, 2010 8:06 AM

          But you already have to burn diamond (tools) to get the obsidian in the first place.

          • reply
            October 22, 2010 2:01 PM

            Not really. Breaking one block of obsidian damages the pick the same as one block of stone.

        • reply
          October 22, 2010 8:23 AM

          Are you kidding? If anything the portals should be EASIER to make

          • reply
            October 22, 2010 10:58 AM

            I am 100% not shitting you. 16x faster than any other transportation? Uber monsters? Mega blocks? Fuck that noise being JUST OBSIDIAN. We need a fucking enchanted rune to do this sucker justice.

            • reply
              October 22, 2010 11:04 AM

              i am running Runecraft on my server. I need to update it though.

            • reply
              October 22, 2010 11:08 AM

              I feel like uber monsters already makes it difficult, even with the building requirement. It's hard enough to make the portal (even if you think it's easier), but trying to travel through it without dying is another part of it.

              • reply
                October 22, 2010 4:21 PM

                Getting your stuff back will be like a corpse run in Everquest.

      • reply
        October 22, 2010 8:05 AM

        renaming hell to avoid offending religious types? /facepalm

        • reply
          October 22, 2010 8:10 AM

          Well, naming it "Hell" would be bland anyway,

        • reply
          October 22, 2010 8:13 AM

          Ãœnderholme

          • reply
            October 22, 2010 8:14 AM

            awesome :)

          • reply
            October 22, 2010 8:16 AM

            ...or, to use Swedish letters, Ã…mal.

            • reply
              October 22, 2010 8:27 AM

              that sounds like it would be an awesome metal band name.

            • reply
              October 22, 2010 8:27 AM

              Yeah, except that that means "rivermoth" in Swedish.

              Underjorden, perhaps?

            • reply
              October 22, 2010 4:36 PM

              Fucking Åmål?

          • reply
            October 22, 2010 8:32 AM

            Ü is not in the Swedish alphabet. You're not doing anything to help the ignorant-American-stereotype. :)

            • reply
              October 22, 2010 8:35 AM

              I don't know a lick about Swedish, it just looked cool :p

              How about Hölle?

              • reply
                October 22, 2010 8:45 AM

                It means hell in German, so by naming it that you haven't actually solved the problem. :)

            • reply
              October 22, 2010 11:28 AM

              I figured Ãœnderland was too direct of a Venture Brothers reference

            • reply
              October 22, 2010 3:06 PM

              yeah I am totally familiar with the alphabet of every obscure language

              iss mir wurscht

          • reply
            October 22, 2010 9:22 AM

            Pillesnopplandet

      • reply
        October 22, 2010 8:05 AM

        "The red rock it’s made from can burn forever when ignited" I'm guessing we know the lantern ingredients now...

        • reply
          October 22, 2010 8:20 AM

          yeah it's pretty lame that if you are just starting out, the only way to get permanent lighting is to spend a week trying to get enough obsidian to build a door, survive hell, and then you can make a lantern.

          • foo
            reply
            October 22, 2010 8:24 AM

            Our current concern is how we're going to handle relighting torches, since you need flint+steel to do that, which we have disabled.

            • Zek
              reply
              October 22, 2010 9:13 AM

              There should really be a server setting that disables the spreading of fire.

            • reply
              October 22, 2010 10:09 AM

              The Llama mod adds a lighter for safe lighting of items, I wonder if it might be similar to that

          • reply
            October 22, 2010 8:36 AM

            I don't see a problem there. Finite lighting is supposed to be a common thing in this game. A lot of the game play is going to center around dealing with areas of your map going dark over time. Lanterns are meant to be the exception to the rule; the rare thing you put in your home base or in major areas of high importance.

            Like obsidian, really.

            • reply
              October 22, 2010 8:42 AM

              well im just saying that the barrier to entry is going to be even harder for newbies to get into. Hell, a lot of people have a hard time figuring out how to survive the first night.

              • reply
                October 22, 2010 8:48 AM

                Surviving one night won't be any harder, unless torches burn out quicker than that. The main drawback is that you will have to spend more time chopping wood, mining coal and placing torches if you want to stay safe. But I think the situation today, when the landscape gets riddled with inexhaustible torches all over, is pretty ridiculous.

                • reply
                  October 22, 2010 10:17 AM

                  You don't need more torches than before, they're just going to need to be relit periodically.

            • Zek
              reply
              October 22, 2010 9:17 AM

              I don't think it's going to be as big a deal as you guys are imagining. Torches will probably last a few days at least, seeing as you're stuck with them until you can mine obsidian. I think it's a good change that the throwaway torches you spammed all over your mine and the terrain to light your path aren't going to keep it 100% monster-free forever. Lanterns probably won't be terrible expensive, just enough that you won't put them down for places you don't plan on revisiting.

        • reply
          October 22, 2010 12:28 PM

          Nope.

          The lantern fuel is the glowing gold blocks at the top of the screenshots floating in the air.

          • reply
            October 22, 2010 12:50 PM

            Your source on this?

            • reply
              October 22, 2010 1:08 PM

              That or they are the blocks that will allow lifts/elevators as they float to the top

      • reply
        October 22, 2010 8:07 AM

        The Ghasts are flying cuboid jellyfish that shoot fireballs at you, blowing chunks out of the world around you and setting it on fire.

        Well, this makes building in hell near impossible. I can't think of any way to make anything permanent there (wonder if obsidian could hold up against the blasts).

        • reply
          October 22, 2010 8:08 AM

          would be cool if you left your portal open and the ghasts followed you out and wreaked havoc on your world.

        • reply
          October 22, 2010 8:12 AM

          You don't build in Hell. It's for fast travel.

          • reply
            October 22, 2010 8:15 AM

            Sure, but where's the challenge in that? :D

        • reply
          October 22, 2010 8:15 AM

          that would be insane if they could destroy the portals too. i don't know if i'd even bother going in there at all.

          • reply
            October 22, 2010 8:16 AM

            Actually, that's a good point. They must not be able to destroy obsidian (probably similar to creeper explosions). If they could, then you're screwed since you would be trapped there.

            • reply
              October 22, 2010 8:17 AM

              Fire cannot destroy obsidian. I don't see how they will be able to destroy it.

              • reply
                October 22, 2010 8:25 AM

                See I am wondering how that's going to work, because whats to prevent someone from building a obsidian tunnel (outside of time) from one portal to the next, negating any danger. I feel like the danger factor is half the fun of the fast travel dimension.

                • reply
                  October 22, 2010 8:26 AM

                  an obsidian tunnel? That would take forever!! If someone wants to spend that much time between two portals it should be allowed, my god.

                  • reply
                    October 22, 2010 8:29 AM

                    Exactly my thoughts.

                  • reply
                    October 22, 2010 8:43 AM

                    why would that take forever? if you had the obsidian mined up from the normal world seems like you could just slap a tunnel together in hell in no time.

                    • reply
                      October 22, 2010 8:43 AM

                      obvs it would take a while to get the obsidian in the normal world

                    • Zek
                      reply
                      October 22, 2010 9:19 AM

                      Mining obsidian takes ages, not only do you have to find lava springs but you also have to slowly chip away at each piece. A 2 meter tall mini-tunnel would take 10 obsidian blocks per square of distance. Actually connecting portals with them even over short distances would be an epic undertaking.

                      • reply
                        October 22, 2010 11:36 AM

                        Yeah I guess it is a time sink. I didn't think about the durability hit on the tools (if that gets fixed in this update).

                        I just hope its never possible to be 100% safe in that dimension, maybe make Ghasts clip through obsidian or something :)

                        • reply
                          October 22, 2010 4:01 PM

                          Durability isn't a problem; it's just that it takes like 40 seconds to harvest one block.

                • Zek
                  reply
                  October 22, 2010 8:42 AM

                  Notch has said that it can be tamed, it's just really hard. I'm guessing they don't spawn in torch light, but because Hell is so open it's near impossible to completely blanket a big open area(like the screenshot) in sufficient light. If they can destroy hell rock though, the terrain is going to be swiss cheese whether you build anything or not...

                  • reply
                    October 22, 2010 2:36 PM

                    Notch said they don't care about light, only need space to spawn.

                • reply
                  October 22, 2010 8:46 AM

                  Then don't build one! It's not like an obsidian tunnel just appears out of nowhere.

                  • reply
                    October 22, 2010 11:30 AM

                    Well I am not saying I am going to do it!

          • reply
            October 22, 2010 8:49 AM

            If they could, you could get stuck in hell with no way out except by dying. It seems like a very unlikely design choice.

            • foo
              reply
              October 22, 2010 8:55 AM

              /home

            • reply
              October 22, 2010 9:12 AM

              can we not build a portal in hell?

              • Zek
                reply
                October 22, 2010 9:39 AM

                You probably can't find water or diamond in hell, so no making obsidian unless you brought your own supplies.

              • reply
                October 22, 2010 1:32 PM

                You can, but you have to have the materials.

        • reply
          October 22, 2010 10:20 AM

          also, how far down can you dig in hell?

          • reply
            October 22, 2010 11:01 AM

            my guess would be that it has the same number of levels as a normal minecraft world 127 i think it is from top of the sky down to bedrock...i might be wrong about that number tho

      • reply
        October 22, 2010 8:07 AM

        Biomes are gonna rule.

        • reply
          October 22, 2010 8:25 AM

          I for one want to make a huge treehouse in the forest biome!! AWESOME!

          • reply
            October 22, 2010 8:26 AM

            my HDD is going to crash with all the exploration I'll be doing.

      • reply
        October 22, 2010 8:11 AM

        that's pretty cool. wish at some point he'd make flight possible. or at least some sort of transportation over land that's quicker than walking

        • reply
          October 22, 2010 8:22 AM

          Hopefully powered minecarts will work after this patch

          • reply
            October 22, 2010 8:22 AM

            Without crashing the server I mean.

        • reply
          October 22, 2010 8:27 AM

          transportation like boats or minecarts?

          • reply
            October 22, 2010 8:28 AM

            boat cant go over land and a minecart is good for exploring

            • reply
              October 22, 2010 8:46 AM

              Boats can go over land if you build a canal.

              Exploration should be somewhat slow, and potentially dangerous (at night). Once you explore a bit, you can then build canals or cart tracks to make travel faster.


              Flight would make things too easy to grief, and if anything moved faster than a boat or minecart, the terrain generation would not be able to keep up, especially if you were up high and had a wide open view (i.e., trees and hills help hide terrain generation and pop-in).

              • reply
                October 22, 2010 8:48 AM

                a hang glider that has a maximum glide distance. building a canal isnt conducive to exploration

      • reply
        October 22, 2010 8:12 AM

        Man everything about this sounds awesome. Can't wait for the biomes especially, let alone hell, portals, and lots of new block types.

        • reply
          October 22, 2010 8:14 AM

          ...and the inevitable surprises.

          • reply
            October 22, 2010 8:29 AM

            I will have to avoid browsing the Minecraft threads for weeks afterward to avoid all spoilers.

      • reply
        October 22, 2010 8:42 AM

        I hope you can build Minecart tracks right into a portal, lay them down in the hell world, and back out again through another portal.

      • reply
        October 22, 2010 8:45 AM

        Oh shit. The obsidian castle is going to become a giant hell portal lol

        • reply
          October 22, 2010 8:46 AM

          only if he lights the ground on fire.

          • reply
            October 22, 2010 9:30 AM

            Wouldn't all the lava do that for him?

            • reply
              October 22, 2010 9:32 AM

              Oh I will light that shit on fire so fast. The best defence is sending invaders to another dimension!

      • reply
        October 22, 2010 9:12 AM

        Today is the 22nd. Getting close to Halloween. I can't wait!

      • reply
        October 22, 2010 9:49 AM

        Keep in mind, notch said that these Ghasts are actually 4 blocks tall, so as cute as they look, they're probably double their actual size compared to the player model

        • Zek
          reply
          October 22, 2010 9:56 AM

          No way are they actually four blocks tall, maybe they have to hover 2 blocks off the ground and so can't fit through entrances smaller than that.

          • reply
            October 22, 2010 9:57 AM

            The ghasts can move through walls

            • reply
              October 22, 2010 10:00 AM

              doom2.exe Archvile bug? :(

            • reply
              October 22, 2010 10:05 AM

              this has not been confirmed, I just speculated it due to the name

              • reply
                October 22, 2010 10:07 AM

                confirmed by Arctic Fox:

                Ghasts will invade your house through the walls and eat your testicles!

                • reply
                  October 22, 2010 10:34 AM

                  Ya I think arctic suggested this in one of his tweets, and notch just found it too funny not to include. So any time a ghast kills you, blame Arctic Fox!!!!

              • reply
                October 22, 2010 10:25 AM

                the screenshot in the article has a ghast passing through a block

              • reply
                October 22, 2010 10:36 AM

                he said they could pass through walls on his twitter a while back.

                • reply
                  October 22, 2010 10:42 AM

                  I think in this case, making obsidian tunnels between portals would be a death trap. Imagine walking through it trying to get to the next portal and suddenly, a white blob moves through the wall. FFFUUUUUUU.... *you have died*

          • Zek
            reply
            October 22, 2010 11:07 AM

            I take it back, upon closer inspection they actually are really massive and just pretty far away in those screens. That is terrifying. It's hard to say if that one on top is phasing through a wall or not though.

            • reply
              October 22, 2010 12:00 PM

              Wow if the one on the top is behind those blocks, which it looks like it is, then those things are freaking HUGE

      • reply
        October 22, 2010 10:40 AM

        is this shit down? :(

        • reply
          October 22, 2010 10:41 AM

          wont load for me either =\

          • reply
            October 22, 2010 10:57 AM

            a few reloads later it finally showed up

      • reply
        October 22, 2010 11:58 AM

        I'm not gonna play until the update is released.. Once it is I'm gonna start a brand new singleplayer game :D. I wonder if he's gonna fix the SMP issues

    • reply
      October 22, 2010 8:04 AM

      I have a question about servers & multiplayer - is survival multiplayer in the game yet but there just aren't any mobs? If I do run a server for me and the fiancé to play on, does it need to be on 24/7 to maintain the world?

      Also, how buggy is SMP? Can we do everything we can do in single player minus deal with the mobs?

      • reply
        October 22, 2010 8:14 AM

        You can build stuff together in SMP but the monsters don't deal damage and you can't get hurt either, so it's better just to disable them at the moment. You don't need to leave a server running to maintain it, every time you shut it down the level is just saved in its last state, so when you boot it back up it's like it was when you left. You can't do everything you can in SP yet, mine carts are still glitchy, you need mods to use water, doors don't work, etc etc the list goes on.

    • reply
      October 22, 2010 8:50 AM

      Could someone get this up and running for the server renders?

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Moe24BzPdU&feature=player_embedded

      Links to open source code in the comments.

      • reply
        October 22, 2010 8:59 AM

        Ok. This is badass.

      • reply
        October 22, 2010 9:01 AM

        That is an extremely small piece of land compared to the area of Mercfox's server.

        Have you seen this:
        http://216.139.192.52/~djr/mc/gmap/
        ?

        • reply
          October 22, 2010 9:22 AM

          ^^ is stupid impressive. this mesmerized me for a good 20 mins.

        • foo
          reply
          October 22, 2010 9:45 AM

          This isn't' even the entire render. I crop the renders, since some people decided to explore into stupid distances.

      • reply
        October 22, 2010 9:06 AM

        Very cool.

      • reply
        October 22, 2010 9:11 AM

        Cool, but it shows underground stuff, which won't be rendered on Mercfox as far as I know (give away too many secrets).

        • reply
          October 22, 2010 9:20 AM

          what the

        • foo
          reply
          October 22, 2010 9:45 AM

          Correct. Underground renders will never be available. Too many people have stashed their good stuff underground, due to theft. Providing underground renders would reveal everyones vaults.

          • reply
            October 22, 2010 9:59 AM

            Well, honestly, I think someone would have to be really good/dedicated to be able to read much from these underground renders. They are so 'busy' that it's hard to tell what is what, and where it is.

            I'd be kinda amazed if someone could find my stuff with these.

            Still, I don't mind keeping the underground stuff more of a secret, makes for better exploring.

            • foo
              reply
              October 22, 2010 10:05 AM

              Yeah, that's the other part of my reasoning. In my opinion, what's underground should remain a mystery, and someone should see it for themselves, as opposed to just looking at a render and saying "oh there's a huge cavern over there". They should stumble upon it the old fashioned way

              • reply
                October 22, 2010 10:42 AM

                What about a request for say Slice 14 with only the obviously pertinent info available to so we can match up underground positioning with the surface map?

                • foo
                  reply
                  October 22, 2010 11:29 AM

                  I think you fail to take my laziness into account.

                  • reply
                    October 22, 2010 12:22 PM

                    Foo, there are so many words that I wish to type, but I don't want another nuked post so, good day sir!

                    • foo
                      reply
                      October 22, 2010 12:58 PM

                      SM it to me then.

                      • reply
                        October 22, 2010 1:35 PM

                        SM'd Sir! wanker

                        • foo
                          reply
                          October 22, 2010 1:45 PM

                          lies, I got nothing :(

                          • reply
                            October 22, 2010 1:57 PM

                            Foo, we don't need to know what's in your pants man!

                            • foo
                              reply
                              October 22, 2010 2:03 PM

                              jerk :(

                              • reply
                                October 22, 2010 2:04 PM

                                I know the truth can hurt sometimes, but if you hadn't posted them pics on the net, nobody would have known!

          • reply
            October 22, 2010 10:37 AM

            Wha? Are Shackers on the Minecraft servers really assholes like that? Rhetorical question?

            • reply
              October 22, 2010 10:39 AM

              pretty much

              • reply
                October 22, 2010 10:46 AM

                Well I randomly help other people on the server build shit! And I also hide my loot underground.

            • reply
              October 22, 2010 2:04 PM

              yup i had about 80 diamonds stollen from me before I hid my stuff.

              • reply
                October 22, 2010 2:07 PM

                Incidentally, if anyone's still having things disappear on Merc's server, let a mod know. We're interested in finding the thieves.

                • reply
                  October 22, 2010 3:15 PM

                  yah this happened a month ago before the move to foo's server

          • reply
            October 22, 2010 3:14 PM

            you might want to fix the gmap then. It's showing underground stuff in a big east west stripe just north of Stubb's Cathedral (and Minas Tirith) at the closest zoom level

            • reply
              October 22, 2010 3:37 PM

              Yea I saw that yesterday when I was exploring NE a little.

            • foo
              reply
              October 22, 2010 3:47 PM

              wut? I don't see it, where specifically?

              • reply
                October 22, 2010 3:57 PM

                all the way across the map. Check Buttplug Tower or ConsFEARacy's fort, or start at Minas Tirith, go north to sky canal, then twice as far as that. Zoom all the way in. See this: http://www.shackpics.com/files/undergroundBleedingThrough_02g56r1sp5e8lxvyn16o.jpg

                • foo
                  reply
                  October 22, 2010 4:02 PM

                  Oh weird, looks like oizo's caching is broken over there. I'll have to clear the render and let it go again

                  • reply
                    October 22, 2010 4:10 PM

                    It's not broken caching, it's a partial render; I could expose the LRU cache size as an option to allow you to use more ram as a quick fix. I could render to temporarily named files and rename when they're complete.

                    I'll put that in later; right now I'm working on some code clean up. I just got lighting working right on textured and I need to propagate those changes to the other modes, test those, and fix some other misc things.

                    • reply
                      October 22, 2010 4:16 PM

                      Here's how things are looking
                      http://www.digitized-e.com/mroizo/mercnight.PNG

                      • reply
                        October 22, 2010 4:51 PM

                        that's incredible!

                        also, cave thing cleared itself up (as expected I guess) but I feel like a cheater for finding one I saw before that happened.

                        also: by building looks weird without cloth blocks :( Can't complain though

                        • reply
                          October 22, 2010 4:52 PM

                          *my building looks weird. ugh typo now and then is cool but when it makes a whole different word D:

                          • reply
                            October 22, 2010 5:02 PM

                            Cloth is fixed in the current build - also that's a pretty old copy of the world now.

            • reply
              October 22, 2010 4:06 PM

              What's actually happening is that you're catching a partial pass of the renderer as it's updating. I render some underground things as I'm building a gmap tile because of the simplicity of the visibility check. I'm rendering on a chunk by chunk basis and committing those to tiles; I have tiles in an LRU cache to limit memory usage, but due to the size of the map, there's no way I can keep all partially completed tiles in ram.

      • reply
        October 22, 2010 9:13 AM

        *Duke Nukem Voice* HoLY Shiiit!

      • reply
        October 22, 2010 9:22 AM

        I had this idea before, but then I realized someone else probably did it already, and yep, they did.

      • reply
        October 22, 2010 9:23 AM

        Render: underground tunnels.
        Highlight: Diamond Ore.
        HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAX

      • reply
        October 22, 2010 1:24 PM

        LIKE A BOSS!!

    • reply
      October 22, 2010 9:11 AM

      how is this thread so big so fcking fast?

    • reply
      October 22, 2010 9:53 AM

      So, um, if 1m=160m in hell. What happens when 2+ portals are built within 160m of each other in the normal world? Because that's going to happen on mercs. Either it will work like stargates or like crossing the streams, which would be bad.....

      • reply
        October 22, 2010 9:56 AM

        There's something in the article that made me feel like there's going to be restricts in the overworld about portal placement... like there can only be one within such-and-such radius. Would make the most sense.

        • Zek
          reply
          October 22, 2010 10:02 AM

          Makes more sense that they would both go to the same hell portal. I think when you create an earth portal, it scans that area of hell for a suitable place and puts it somewhere within that 16x16 chunk, maybe independent of your z axis location. If there's one already there, it just uses that.

          • reply
            October 22, 2010 10:12 AM

            It seems like it was implied in the article that if more than one portal in the surface world is near each other and there's already a corresponding portal in hell, all of them would link to the same one.

            • reply
              October 22, 2010 11:08 AM

              of course, that raises the question of which portal you exit from when you leave hell...

              • reply
                October 22, 2010 11:18 AM

                I imagine it's could be a random one. It's trivial to travel a 16x16 area where any portal could be located, and doesn't really matter if it's consistent or not.

                • reply
                  October 22, 2010 11:21 AM

                  true, to be honest it seems pretty unlikely that i'll have portals that close together given their expense

                  one thing i would like though is a mod that lets me link overworld portals together so i can have a portal room with doorways to my various outposts

                  i don't expect something like that to be in the official version of the game though given notch's current design ideas

      • reply
        October 22, 2010 9:58 AM

        10 M = 160 M in hell so that's 16 hell M per real M. What will happen is probably that they will direct you to the same hell portal.

        • reply
          October 22, 2010 10:23 AM

          Ya, but which one will you go to when coming out of hell?

          • reply
            October 22, 2010 10:33 AM

            You'll be torn in half and forced to wander the underworld until you can find your way back home to reunite with your left side.

            • reply
              October 22, 2010 10:35 AM

              dude, i'm gonna light fires in every doorway of your castle!!!

        • reply
          October 22, 2010 11:28 AM

          in light of this fast travel I think the move spawn point is a good idea as opposed to a new world (if the server can handle it)

          you move 5 minutes in hell and you have already travelled 1 hour. so it should be easy to get to the old world. that or making warps, some server scripts have warps which is cool, just teleports you to places. One for eonix's waterpark would make sense, and one for old spawn, etc

      • reply
        October 22, 2010 10:38 AM

        I think you reversed your measurements. 10m in Hell = 160m in World

      • reply
        October 22, 2010 10:40 AM

        1m = 16m and I assume if you build two portals in the real world within 16m they will just go to the same portal in hell

      • reply
        October 22, 2010 12:57 PM

        Yeah, Notch said in the PC Gamer interview that if two portals on earth are too close, then there will only be one portal in hell.

        Hopefully, if Notch keeps the build process for portals, then only admins will be able to active portals (because only admins can place fire).

    • reply
      October 22, 2010 9:56 AM

      Im setting myself up with some beachfront property on Merc's server w00t. terraforming takes forever...

    • reply
      October 22, 2010 10:47 AM

      haxim i can't log in to your server!!

    • reply
      October 22, 2010 10:51 AM

      ATTN: Happy and Hyllis

      i am sorry to say that i was standing too close to your awesome cactus garden when the fucking creeper snuck up behind me. there is a hole now.

    • reply
      October 22, 2010 11:09 AM

      Wish I could go home and play minecraft righ now.

    • reply
      October 22, 2010 11:29 AM

      Hey is there any way to set it so that there is a default address in the muitiplayer connection menu? it's irritating to type in mercfox's server every single time I want to join in

    • reply
      October 22, 2010 1:23 PM

      Well well well, this http://www.minecraftforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=60704 fix isn't working for me.

      In fact, I think it's causing more socketerrors :@

    • reply
      October 22, 2010 2:24 PM

      I wonder if water will flow through portals. If so, imagine the sky canal using hell to increase travel speed even more :D

      • reply
        October 22, 2010 2:31 PM

        Have to be able to light the blocks under portal arch on fire, would negate a canal :(

        • reply
          October 22, 2010 2:42 PM

          But is that a one time thing? also just raise the canal above ground level provided there is no limit in the size a portal door can be.

      • reply
        October 22, 2010 2:40 PM

        Buying one for my wife

        • reply
          October 22, 2010 2:43 PM

          You think she would actually do it then?

      • reply
        October 22, 2010 2:42 PM

        I'm pretty sure no one ever got laid because of minecraft. well maybe notch.

        • reply
          October 22, 2010 2:47 PM

          lol yeah I'm pretty sure Minecraft's success gets Notch laid all the time

          • reply
            October 22, 2010 2:52 PM

            it's the hat

          • reply
            October 22, 2010 3:01 PM

            especially since I think he has a fiancee

            • reply
              October 22, 2010 3:08 PM

              That was exactly my point. Imagine coming home and saying to your wife "I made $100,000 today". Fucken nookie magnet

    • reply
      October 22, 2010 4:13 PM

      It's getting impossible to follow Notch's twitter. He drops so much cool information in responses to fans on there, but when he gets going he can do 50-60 at a time, multiple times a day.

      • reply
        October 22, 2010 4:14 PM

        this is easily the best use of twitter i've ever found

        • reply
          October 22, 2010 4:16 PM

          Definitely. It's great. It's the whole reason I have a Twitter account. I don't tweet, but I like following celebrities, game devs and comedians and taking advantage of it that way.

          • reply
            October 22, 2010 4:17 PM

            That's how most people use Twitter.

            • reply
              October 22, 2010 4:18 PM

              Apparently so. Which is good, because there's enough insufferable cunts on there without everyone else getting in on it.

              • reply
                October 22, 2010 4:53 PM

                the good thing about twitter is that if someone is an insufferable cunt then you can unfollow them and never know they exist! unless someone retweets him. OKAY DRUNK HULK IS HILARIOUS I GET IT YOU DON'T HAVE TO RETWEET EVERY FUCKING THING HE SAYS GUYS.

    • reply
      October 22, 2010 4:59 PM

      Merc's server just go down?

    • reply
      October 22, 2010 5:03 PM

      mercfox server just kaboom?