Weekend Discussion: High Water Warning

Okay, so spending the night in Hicksville and wading through waist-high water to recover valuables from my girlfriend's stalled car wasn't exactly the sort of thing I had planned to do this weekend, but it was certainly an adventure of sorts. Thunderstorms!

Assuming that Mother Nature doesn't have any other surprises in store, I just need to wash off this mud and maybe, just maybe, I'll have the chance to sink some more time into Red Dead Redemption and Split/Second before Super Mario Galaxy 2 hits.

By the way, my aspiring comedian of a brother Reid--now a college graduate!--has a new clip as part of his final run in the National College Comedy Competition. The poor guy has to deal with the real world after this, so if you like it, perhaps give him a vote?

From The Chatty
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    May 22, 2010 8:06 AM

    any word on when/if red dead will be out for PC?

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      May 22, 2010 8:08 AM

      i'd say its highly doubtful

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      May 22, 2010 8:08 AM

      Expect Christmas to March. No source, just past history.

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      May 22, 2010 8:08 AM

      If they do announce it, it'll probably be in the next couple of months. I think 4 months after GTA4 came out they announced it was coming to PC.

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      May 22, 2010 8:09 AM

      knowing Rockstar, it's going to come at some point, probably at the end of this year.

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      May 22, 2010 8:10 AM

      I'm going by GTA 4 and Episodes, so I'd say over a year.

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        May 22, 2010 11:00 AM

        GTA4 came out 8 months later on PC. The episodes took so long because they were 360 exclusives.

        Anyway I hope they take their time with this one and do a better port. Working AA, better performance, something to make it stand out more than increased res and mouse controls and possibly a video editor.

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          May 22, 2010 11:33 AM

          I thought the PC GTA4 release was much longer. I may be confused by how long it actually took me to buy the PC version though. I held off buying the game until I had a system that could near-enough max it out.

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            May 22, 2010 11:35 AM

            GTA4 console came out at the end of April 2008, and on the PC early December 2008. I didn't buy the PC version until the holiday steam sale a year later as I already had it on PS3.

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              May 22, 2010 1:53 PM

              Makes sense, I built this system April last year, and my then new 4890 allowed me to pretty much max that game out.

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          May 22, 2010 11:38 AM

          Also, it depends on the game engine when it comes to AA...if it uses a form of deferred lighting like GTA 4 did then AA will never work properly even on a PC version. There has been mods released that allow a form of 'forced AA' on GTA 4 PC...but it's so brutally achieved that the image quality suffers and the the performance suffers even greater.

          Hopefully RDR will be different. That said though, GTA 4 performed badly on PC initially due to bad optimization...which is true. The game in it;s current state runs amazingly well, provided you have a system to run it. There's a limit to how often you can claim bad programming to be the cause of your performance when your actual system is simply not good enough. Even GTA4 PC on medium settings with 30/100 view distance is so much more advanced than the console versions.

          Point is, it's probably the most demanding PC game to date, and unless you have a decent Quad core CPU and a fat-ass graphics card with a high vid mem, you just won't run it at high settings very well at all.

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      May 22, 2010 8:20 AM

      I expect by Thanksgiving or Christmas. :D

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      May 22, 2010 8:21 AM

      Spring 2011

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      May 22, 2010 8:50 AM

      derp derpy doo christmas may august fall summer winter

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      May 22, 2010 8:50 AM

      February 2011

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        May 22, 2010 9:40 AM

        This would make sense, about the same time table of GTAIV 360/PS3 to PC transition.

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      May 22, 2010 9:40 AM

      Before DNF that's for sure.

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      May 22, 2010 9:57 AM

      It's coming but like GTA IV it is going to be a 6-12 month wait. Christmas is a possibility but I could see RockStar giving the console version a full year to soak up sales. If you've got a console, it's not worth the long wait. Besides, the 360 version looks and plays fantastic.

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      May 22, 2010 9:59 AM

      who knows, with all the whining about GTA IV when it came out I wouldn't be surprised R* skips pc from now on for all its releases. Uneducated pc gamers ruin it for everyone (why can't my 5 year old dual core processor with 2gb of ram and a dx8 gpu play it at full detail OMG it's a bad port!!)

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        May 22, 2010 10:03 AM

        u mad brah?

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          May 22, 2010 10:26 AM

          nope I'm not mad, that's just how it seems these days :S

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            May 22, 2010 10:56 AM

            [deleted]

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            May 22, 2010 12:02 PM

            To be fair, I seem to remember people with fairly up-to-date and powerful rigs had a lot of issues with it when it came out.

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              May 22, 2010 12:03 PM

              I think this was due to a memory leak out of the box... could be wrong too lazy to google-fu it

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          May 22, 2010 11:30 AM

          Those guys used to stay on the front page, not anymore they are invading the chatty.

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        May 22, 2010 10:11 AM

        Why can't my E8500 and 4890 run the game at 1920x1080 at any level smoothly? No matter what I do my framerate fluctuates wildly all the time. If it was always high that'd be awesome. If it was always low I could handle it. But going high-->low-->high-->low every couple of seconds drives me up the wall.

        Rockstar's GTA games have always felt pretty crappy on PC and have always come with stupid issues. VIce City had a shitty draw distance, San Andreas won't do 1920x1080 for some fucking reason (and the NumPad 5 key can't be bound to anything either, wtf), GTA IV runs like shit on my PC for reasons unknown.

        As awesome as RDR sounds, I really have little faith that if they did bring it to the PC that it would work properly and have no retarded niggles.

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          May 22, 2010 10:16 AM

          GTA4 is very CPU intensive. Tri/Quad Cores give it big boosts in performance since it was developed on consoles that had it (probably was the straight port from the 360 which has three cores so benchmarks I've seem of the AMD Tri-core CPU's had good numbers for GTA4).

          I upgraded my CPU to quad core that's equivalent to my C2D and it runs a lot smoother. Also a 5870 and a 8 GB of RAM to play at 1920x1200 and High details and draw distance instead of medium/low.

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            May 22, 2010 11:32 AM

            Even still, it doesn't seem like the most optimized port. Running at console equivalent settings with much better hardware won't yield performance well beyond like you'd expect.

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              May 22, 2010 12:03 PM

              I really think there is a lot going on with the engine and that's why it seems unoptimized. I ran it fine when it came out on my c2 x6800 @ 3.4. But I was only pushing 1680 with high settings getting 30 sometimes down to 15fps though. I also think there was initially a memory leak problem when it came out that was fixed after a few patches.

              Either way I found the game ran fine and was still enjoyable it looked a heck of a lot better than it looked on my ps3

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              May 22, 2010 12:37 PM

              Well if you run it at the console settings like medium and 720p then the game runs as good if not better.

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                May 22, 2010 1:44 PM

                Compared to other console ports it really doesn't run as well as youd expect is all I'm saying. Try it out, barely any increase in perfomance at 720p and medium settings whereas other games will see jumps from 30 fps to 60 or more at resolutions twice as high plus AA & AF.

                shakeybonez makes good points about all the shit going on compared to other titles.

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          May 22, 2010 10:28 AM

          lol, so true.

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            May 22, 2010 10:46 AM

            when I was a true PC nerd I had a head full of hair. Once I went to college and sullied myself by playing consoles with people my hair started to fall out. True story.

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        May 22, 2010 10:29 AM

        Man, so much wrong in this post. I don't recall much complaining about Rockstar making a shitty port, in fact i recall people saying it was pretty good. And people knew going in that it was going to be a system crusher. Also all the bitching was about Securom being cunts, which they still are.

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          May 22, 2010 10:44 AM

          haha just google gta iv bad port and you'll see what I mean. people with medium range computers flipped out about it when it was released.

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          May 22, 2010 11:38 AM

          Someone needs to make WWW.isrdrcomingtopc.com .

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          May 22, 2010 11:39 AM

          Have you browsed the steam and GTA forums? It is full of such hate for the PC port.

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        May 22, 2010 11:12 AM

        while they do whine a lot and it's getting tiring i think calling them uneducated was a bit much

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        May 22, 2010 11:32 AM

        Yeah, it wasn't a bad port at all. It faithfully replicated the bad performance of the console versions.

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          May 22, 2010 11:38 AM

          people bitched about the glitchy shadowing effects but forget that the console version had the same problem.. .. but still there were some jarring issues like having to connect to rockstar social network which is an extra hassle just to run the game.

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        May 22, 2010 11:41 AM

        It was a terrible port. Most people who had problems could run every other mainstream game fine. It's the only game I've ever seen where you can change damn near every setting in the graphics menu from max to min, and it only effected the framerate by about 5 FPS. That game was way too CPU dependent.

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        May 22, 2010 12:07 PM

        Would a PC port even be worth it? I'm sure it would sell, but not nearly as much as the 360/PS3.

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        May 22, 2010 12:37 PM

        GTA4 will not run smoothly on a i7-860 and a GTX285. To claim it's a good port, or even a decent one, as far as engine performance goes, would be silly.

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          May 22, 2010 5:19 PM

          Bullshit. It has a wide range of settings just like crysis. If you put the textures, view settings and densities to xbox levels the game runs jut fine on older hardware. On the system you mention you can run high easily and hit 50 fps

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            May 23, 2010 2:15 AM

            Sure, I can make it look like ass and it will run ok. Or I can run it at my native resolution, just like I run all my games, and see it choke every now and then without any real reason. It has a lot of options, yes, but that doesn't make it a good port. That being said, it is a lot better than San Andreas was. :)

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        May 22, 2010 12:46 PM

        why can I run Just cause 2 no problem but GTAIV craps it out
        i7 860 4870

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      May 22, 2010 10:46 AM

      Nevember?

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      May 22, 2010 10:55 AM

      I just heard Lazlow on Opie and Anthony say something like "I don't know any details, but we'll probably get around to it after we make our money back on the platforms that don't pirate 80% of the copies being played."

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        May 22, 2010 11:00 AM

        That's funny, there were people playing pirated versions on console before it was even released.

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        May 22, 2010 11:07 AM

        I'd buy it on steam right now even if it had wacky additional copy protection :[ they need to make a PS3 with laptop like portability

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        May 22, 2010 11:48 AM

        Ouch! I'd never play a GTA game on a PC or any game if I can help it but that's huge deal.

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        May 22, 2010 12:08 PM

        This really makes me sad.

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        May 22, 2010 12:51 PM

        Ithink it was Thursday's episode by the way. He was in for the last hour and a half or so with RDR. Anthony plays the gunsmith in Armadillo.

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      May 22, 2010 11:43 AM

      Probably never. Jeronimo Berrara was on the Kotaku podcast and when asked about a PC port, responded with "There are no plans at this time".

      So yeah, probably never.

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        May 22, 2010 11:47 AM

        :(

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        May 22, 2010 11:59 AM

        I'll wait for it to hit the bargain bin for PS3 in that case.

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          May 22, 2010 12:00 PM

          And lo, a tiny little chink appears in the Crust-aRmor!

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            May 22, 2010 12:02 PM

            D-fer, I have too much stuff to do right now, so I can wait. :|

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          May 22, 2010 12:03 PM

          So worth $59.99.

          In fact I'll buy it again on PC for $59.99...

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            May 22, 2010 12:05 PM

            Yeah, I mainly wanted to use the video editor, so I can put it on the to-buy backlog.

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          May 22, 2010 12:04 PM

          C for Consoles !

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        May 22, 2010 12:23 PM

        Isn't that their response for most of their games initially?

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          May 22, 2010 12:35 PM

          Yeah, they said the same when GTA4 first came out.

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          May 22, 2010 1:46 PM

          yep. But just because they eventually did release GTA4 like a year later on the PC doesn't guarantee RDR will too. I'm just going off what they said.

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            May 22, 2010 1:53 PM

            15% of publisher sales are pc, in case of rockstar probably less (port is slow). the engine already runs on the pc and the did the same thing with gta4 and the ah so exclusive episodes. fact is they want the money and they will go for it after the console sales are saturated. what they said is bullshit and serves the sle purpose of pushing console sales (many pc dudes even stated that they possible will buy it again on the pc).

            all sales tactics.

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            May 22, 2010 3:22 PM

            Yeah but when they did exactly this ("we have no plans" -> "its coming next month lol") for every single game they made, you need to take the hint.

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              May 22, 2010 9:22 PM

              Rockstar Sand Diego hasnt done a PC port of any of its games in ages.

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                May 23, 2010 8:09 AM

                because since the last shitty midnight pc port, they only made shitty console games like racing and a pingpong game. nobody gives a flying fuck about that. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rockstar_San_Diego

                red dead redemption supposedly has cost 100 millions they will try to get every single penny they can for this game.

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        May 22, 2010 1:42 PM

        you mean like the exclusive episodes for the 360 or the original gta4?

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        May 22, 2010 1:48 PM

        Add mouse/keyboard support to your game and i'll buy a 360 or ps3

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        May 22, 2010 2:01 PM

        lol give me a break, you think he'll say "maybe" and lose console rdr sales

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        May 22, 2010 2:21 PM

        ha, they said the same thing about GTAIV and the expansions.

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      May 22, 2010 12:34 PM

      I don't understand the people saying it's unlikely it will come out for PC. All GTA games did. When? Who knows. I'd look how look it took for GTA4 to come for the PC after console release and take that as a probable time frame.

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        May 22, 2010 12:35 PM

        Err, *how long*....

        Also, as for the comments about "there are no plans", haha, come on... Come on. They've said that about EVERY game port EVER, from ANY company, before the announcement is made.

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          May 22, 2010 12:58 PM

          Just trying to get people on the fence to go ahead and buy the console port.. of course it will be out for the pc in due time.

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        May 22, 2010 2:21 PM

        the original red dead isn't on pc though....

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      May 22, 2010 1:31 PM

      Hijack

      This isn't meant to sound trollish, but there are so many threads from PC gamers who demand some title or another on the PC. I don't understand something: unless you're a casual gamer who only plays one game for a long time before moving on to another, or a casual gamer who barely games at all, why don't you just buy a console? I can't imagine being a gamer these days without having at least a PS3 or a 360.

      Again, this isn't meant to scoff at PC gamers. The PC's been my favorite platform since the 286 days, but I also own consoles because if you're a gamer, you almost have to.

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        May 22, 2010 1:34 PM

        certain people refuse to believe it can be fun and effective to use a controller even though they've spent literally 1000x time more or longer practicing on a mouse and keyboard than a controller

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          May 22, 2010 1:39 PM

          Most console shooters have autoaim, lock-on, or both, so I don't see how that would be an impediment.

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            May 22, 2010 1:45 PM

            I don't believe you. If RDR has lock-on, I'll give it a shot.

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              May 22, 2010 1:57 PM

              It does. Just hold the left trigger

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                May 22, 2010 2:11 PM

                I use it way more than Dead Eye, I use Dead Eye for hats and nooses mainly.

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            May 22, 2010 1:46 PM

            It can be an impediment to fun since it requires almost no skill to aim

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              May 22, 2010 2:01 PM

              said by someone who must not have ever seriously played a console shooter

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                May 23, 2010 7:52 AM

                Not sure what you're talking about bro but I'm talking about RDR with its lock-on aiming (default setting).

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              May 22, 2010 2:18 PM

              none at all! you can just connect to xbox live, put down the controller and watch the game play itself! fucking console bullshit!

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            May 22, 2010 1:46 PM

            You just listed some of the reasons. It's just a downgrade. That said it's a massive upgrade for racing/fighting. Can't fault anyone who doesn't mind controllers, but I always prefer shooters on PC.

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        May 22, 2010 1:40 PM

        For one, I don't like the controllers. For two, I like the PC mods. For three, there are enough good games still available for PC that don't care to purchase a console. If a game is not available on PC I am not going to play it. One may say that I am missing out on that game but if I played console games there would be PC games I am missing out on. I don't spend all day gaming.

        The day they stop making PC games I will consider a console, but probably still won't buy one.

        I loved my NES and SNES but discovered PC gaming and sold my N64 and never ever used my PS2; I hated the controls.

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          May 22, 2010 2:30 PM

          I love PC gaming for all those reasons, dognose. Thanks for answering the question. And as someone who bought GTA4 for PC, I also hope RDR makes its way to the platform at some point. I just know you in particular don't play on consoles, so this thread was made out of curiosity about gamers such as yourself who could buy a console, but don't.

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            May 22, 2010 2:36 PM

            I appreciate your understanding. It's refreshing.

            Sometimes, it's like someone tries to get me to play Everquest, or a sports game.

            "You should play it."
            "I don't like sports games."
            "But this is a really good one."
            "I'm sure it is. Word on the street is it's fantastic."
            "Then buy it."
            "I would if I liked sports games."
            "You're missing out."
            "No I'm not, I have FPS games to play."
            "If you'd just try one, you'd like it."
            "I have tried them. That is how I know I don't like them."
            "Troll."

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        May 22, 2010 1:40 PM

        You assume falsely that people who wait for the PC version do not own the necessary consoles. I have a functional PS3, and I'm still going to wait for the PC version of RDR. I hate playing shooters with game pads, and most PS3 games don't support mouse/keyboard, even if the console does.

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          May 22, 2010 2:20 PM

          I thought about that but completely forgot to include it. Thanks for pointing it out because it is indeed a valid point.

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        May 22, 2010 1:43 PM

        Having owned GTA IV on both 360 and PC, I can say without any question that the PC experience is far superior. For as awesome as RDR is (and I'm enjoying it thoroughly on my 360), it sucks to know that it could be SO MUCH better if I was playing it on PC. Settling for an inferior experience sucks, and that is why you see people demanding a PC version

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          May 22, 2010 1:49 PM

          agreed. After years of precision aiming with mice on PC games almost all shooting type console games end up just infuriating me that the interface is more of a challenge than the AI

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            May 22, 2010 1:59 PM

            It really depends on the game, imo. RDR seems just fine with a console controller. Just Cause 2, however, really benefits from the PC because you can do so much more with precise grappling movements.

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            May 22, 2010 2:26 PM

            I was bred on PC shooters, but sometimes I prefer certain shooters on consoles. I actually enjoyed BioShock more on Xbox 360 because using the bumpers to select plasmids and guns allowed me to pause the game select, thus infusing combat with a bit of pseudo turn-based strategy. Sometimes I love the franticness of having to fight or flee while scrambling for weapons, but in BioShock, I preferred to focus more on carefully selecting plasmids and weapons during fighting rather than madly punching keys.

            It all comes down to personal preference. I still prefer FPS games on PC, but I'm not adverse to playing them with controllers.

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          May 22, 2010 9:28 PM

          How exactly is it inferior? You say its inferior but dont explain why.

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            May 23, 2010 7:56 AM

            Screen resolution, draw distance, frame rate, # of objects on-screen at any given time. In GTA4, the car "variety" on 360 was always terrible. If you found a rare car and started driving around, suddenly every other car on the road was the same rare car. On the PC version of GTA4 this is much less of a problem.

            Most of the differences are graphical or somehow related to memory. Obviously the core gameplay is not going to change. For control preferences you can use M/KB or use your 360 controller on PC. Not saying one is better than the other but at least you have the freedom to choose.

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        May 22, 2010 1:46 PM

        I travel a lot so I play most my games on a laptop. Taking a PS3, cables, controler with me is impractical. Plus I'd sometimes have to take a TV with me even because a lot of places disable inputs on hotel tvs so you have to rent their movies/use their payperview type movie system.

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        May 22, 2010 1:47 PM

        Ya I don't get it. My pc gaming buddy absolutely refuses to buy console because of the "5 year old graphics and lack of mouse/keyboard".

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          May 22, 2010 2:44 PM

          what's there not to get about that?

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            May 22, 2010 3:33 PM

            Seriously. That's reason enough for most people, and completely understandable.

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            May 22, 2010 4:31 PM

            'Five year old graphics' is a bizarre statement considering most major releases on PC these days are also on console and look more or less the same.

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            May 22, 2010 9:30 PM

            Because its not accurate. Sure you can spend $350 on a brand new video card, and play maybe 1 game that will actually take advantage of it, or even some, like Crysis that require a gas powered PC to even run it at the highest settings.

            Its not an entirely accurate statement.

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        May 22, 2010 1:50 PM

        How come people get all up in arms over people who would prefer to play certain games on PC and wait? What's wrong with having a preference?

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          May 22, 2010 4:59 PM

          CrustaR, I didn't mean to sound as if I was up in arms. :( Honestly just curious.

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            May 23, 2010 7:56 AM

            Oh, yeah, that wasn't directed toward you, but more toward others who have given me a ton of flak for wanting to wait for the PC version (I'd like to mess with the video editor if there is one, since that was my main use of GTA4).

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        May 22, 2010 1:56 PM

        I don't see much "demanding" so much as I see people simply wondering or questioning if a title is coming to their preferred platform. I'm in a different situation than most maybe, but I do nearly 100% of my gaming on my PC or our Wii as we have children and it's hard for me to find the time to play PS3 games that I would like to play without them being up or me having work to do. (I do own a PS3) So I just play PC games when I can or Wii games with them. Sure, I miss out on Uncharted 2, and GTA4 on the PS3, or God of War 3, but that's ok. I still get to enjoy Mass Effect, Battlefield BC 2, L4D2, GTA4 on my PC, Trine's cool, Red Faction Guerrilla, a whole slew of games I honestly barely have time to even play very much.

        I don't *have* to have RDR on release day and if it's coming to the PC, that would be great. I'm not insisting by asking if it's coming, I'm just curious. I also play many of these games with a 360 controller. Batman, Dirt 2, and GTA4 play flawlessly with it. I built this PC for $750 (quad core, 8 gigs ram, win 7) and it's my work and play machine so while it cost more than a console, it's provided me much more value overall given it does everything I need it to, including playing games that look much better than their console counterparts and control just the same, if not better in some cases.

        I play Wii, PC, DS, iPhone/iPad, board, card, all kindsa games. I prefer certain games on certain platforms and that's about the end of it. I'm sure we all do the same.

        Imagine if in an alternate world, Epic announce Gears of War 3 was a Wii exclusive. You don't think people might wish it was on a "better" platform? It's not about entitlement or elitism or anything like that, you would just prefer to play it on a platform with better graphics, better online, etc. Much like some folks would rather play say, RDR, on the PC with better graphics, at their desks, away from the kids, with mods, whatever. It's just a preference.

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        May 22, 2010 1:57 PM

        I used to be a really snobby PC gamer. Then when I repeatedly saw how much fun my friends were having playing Halo, I tried to put my prejudices aside and forced myself to learn how to enjoy an FPS with a controller.

        I fought it every step along the way, too. I cursed FPS games where I'd spend most of the game staring at the ceiling and getting shot. "Mouse and keyboard are so much better! Blah blah blah rabble rabble rabble!". Finally, something clicked.

        And I'm really glad I did, because I've played so many great games and had a lot of fun. It's really invigorated my game playing.

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          May 22, 2010 2:28 PM

          i played a lot of online competitive stuff on pc and could never stand playing an fps on a console until gears of war. i dont remember what it was about that control system compared to other games, but it seemed a lot more intuitive. i still hate how floaty halo is, but have gotten used to the controller enough that i had/have a lot of fun playing stuff like mw2 on my 360. i don't think i've ever even loaded the sp in that game. there are still things i play on pc instead of my 360, bad company 2 being one of them, but i have no problems switching back and forth between systems now and don't miss out on all the great cnosole games.

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            May 22, 2010 2:31 PM

            My PC elitism only shines in two instances: multiplayer FPS, and strategy games. I can't play either on consoles. That's not to say those games can't be good on consoles, just that I refuse to play them with a controller because they're too frustrating. Single-player FPS games don't bother me because I'm not really competing with anything.

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              May 22, 2010 3:06 PM

              i can understand that, especially when it comes to strategy games, but fps on console isn't that bad. it just takes some getting used to (and it took me a fair bit to do it). i don't think the people complaining about it just give it enough of a chance.

              the vast majority of my competitive play for the past 10+ years (not much recently) was in fps with cs, q3 and dod, and i admin'd a bunch of westcoast servers for all those games and helped run the fragmart tournies out in vancouver for a few years. i played a crapton of pc fps.

              my first experience with an online console shooter back in the day (not counting split screen stuff like goldeneye) was socom on ps2 at a friend's place and i haaaated it, but it wasn't the game, it was just that i wasn't used to the control scheme.

              fast forward a few years and i would play console shooters online once in awhile, but when mw2 came out i played it online pretty much exclusively and found it to be a shitload of fun. the games matured and with them so did the control schemes. they're at the point now where it's actually pretty easy to get used to compared to when i first started, it's just that people don't want to try because they're used to raping face on pc, but once you get over that hump it's great.

              the kb/m combo will always be better, and that would be a problem if you were actually mixing kb/m players with controllers players on a console, but you're not, so it really doesn't matter that much.

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        May 22, 2010 1:57 PM

        casual gamer who only plays one game for a long time before moving on to another

        Whaaaat?

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          May 22, 2010 2:00 PM

          counterstrikers

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            May 22, 2010 2:01 PM

            Don't we refer to those guys as hardcore?

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              May 22, 2010 2:05 PM

              bejewelers?

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              May 22, 2010 2:24 PM

              There are different ways to define "hardcore". I consider myself a hardcore gamer who invests lots of time in individual games, but I also like to play a lot of different games, though probably not as many as other gamers. I play maybe 6 or 7 new games a year for quite a bit, but also spend time playing older favorites.

              You could also define "hardcore" gamers as those who are really good at one type of game, but they're not really gamers, because I believe gamers are people who love games -- meaning more than just one or two.

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                May 22, 2010 2:26 PM

                You sound like you spend alot of time trying to figure out how to categorize "gamers" instead of just accepting that they are all into gaming on some level. Maybe not just like you, or into the games as much or as little as you are, or even on the platform you happen to prefer.

                I really think this subthread could be summed up with: Hey gamers, why are we all different?

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                  May 22, 2010 2:28 PM

                  I don't spend "a lot of time" trying to categorize gamers. I didn't even think about it until I tried to address MercFox's question. Obviously everyone games differently, but that means there are categories of gamers, yes. It doesn't matter to me. I believe everything comes down to personal preference.

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                  May 22, 2010 3:26 PM

                  I think there's actually a fairly deep issue here that's worth examining, that comes from the base assumption that anyone would have anything in common with a person just because they both play videogames.

                  People make this assumption a lot, especially among gamers. It's the entire philosophy behind the gaming convention PAX (which purports to speak for everyone that plays videogames, collectively) even though (at least, evidenced by my experience at PAX East) it promotes a somewhat specific brand and idealization of gaming.

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          May 22, 2010 2:22 PM

          Many casual gamers do that. I have a friend who owns a PS3, and he has literally only played Warhawk for the past 2-3 years (however long that game has been out).

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        May 22, 2010 2:04 PM

        I can only answer for myself. I have both a 360 and a PS3. In fact I even have RDR. But I do wait for a lot of games to come out on PC because it's my preferred gaming platform. In fact I've only bought these consoles late in the cycle to play some great games that can only be played on console. (As opposed to my console-loving friends who were in line for an X360 before there was even a good reason to have one.)

        I think the emphasis on consoles in the past decade has had overall negative effects for gaming in general. Some types of games have been simplified ("dumbed down") to play better with a gamepad or have more mass market appeal. Other game types have died out altogether. It could be argued that "consolization" has improved the gaming world too. Certainly games are more "cinematic" nowadays. But one of the big things that always set PC gaming apart from other forms of entertainment was a certain amount of creation that was allowed in may PC games. Custom content made a great game out of NWN, which would otherwise have been only mediocre. DotA was never intended by Blizzard, they just provided the tools. In fact I've lost count of how many games have come out where the developers have said that they were surprised and delighted by what the gaming community was able to do with their game post-release. And of course these modders get snapped up by game studios and the cycle continues.

        In a lot of ways, I compare it to how I prefer to entertain/inform myself on the internet (news sites, blogs, forums, etc.) more than TV. On TV, content is made for the mass market, packaged, and delivered in a "read-only" format. Sometimes that's great. (I love Fringe, Lost, Chuck, and others.) But for the most part I prefer the "read-write", organic nature of the internet.

        So anyway, I think most PC-loving Shackers are more or less like me. Hopefully it makes more sense now?

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        May 22, 2010 2:13 PM

        Controllers, plain and simple.

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        May 22, 2010 2:18 PM

        It's worth the wait IMO for. Never once have I demanded that they release the PC version ASAP.

        GTA IV PC > GTA IV Console in several key areas, specifically re-playability. The game can be modded, clips can easily be recorded and edited, and rendered in the game itself---and if that wasn't in there - well, Fraps is the next best thing. Furthermore there's more peeps that can be brought in via MP, though this isn't a really big incentive given that the game crashes with more peeps.

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        May 22, 2010 2:19 PM

        Consoles are for pedophiles.

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          May 22, 2010 2:29 PM

          Thank you. We were all thinking it, but you were the only one with the balls to come out and say it.

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        May 22, 2010 2:20 PM

        I have those as well as a PSP, NDS, and a Wii.

        RDR on 360 is a blast and I really enjoy it. I definitely would play this on PC as well however I probably won't be sad if it never comes out, I got to enjoy it already. Also I probably would play this with my wired 360 controller on PC as well. Some games just play more fluidly with a controller and I'm controller agnostic or what not and don't have a strong preference over one or the other. I can use both just fine and I think it's mostly mental that people can't let go one form over the other. I just know what I want to do and I perform it on whatever I'm using, gamepad or KB+M.

        My one controller limitation though is the guitars in the rock band/GH games, I have a hard time making orange notes but I'm fine on the Drums.

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        May 22, 2010 2:34 PM

        PC games are much cheaper where I live.

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        May 22, 2010 2:35 PM

        I don't get this too. PC is my favourite platform, but an Xbox costs less than a graphics card these days. Why miss out?

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        May 22, 2010 2:45 PM

        It's not so much i don't like the controller, but pretty much was mr. dognose said. There are still plenty of great games on the PC, and if RDR doesn't come out, oh well i guess i won't play it for a while. Also it's because i can't really afford a console right now. That i need a new TV.

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        May 22, 2010 2:48 PM

        control scheme, mods, graphics. My favorite genres are FPS, Flight Sim and RTS. And I don't feel the need to play every game. If the game is console only, oh well. More time for game X on my PC. I also like modding as well as playing mods. And I can shoot for 60 FPS higher than high def with most games. Mostly though I'm a kbm whore

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        May 22, 2010 3:28 PM

        It's always better on PC. Even when the port is bad, it's better on PC. The few games that remain console exclusive are not worth it.

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        May 22, 2010 3:32 PM

        I prefer shooters on PC, but RDR is so much more about atmosphere and just roaming around, and I don't think I'd like it as much if it weren't on a 52 inch tv with 5.1 audio.

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          May 22, 2010 3:37 PM

          I see this a lot, but I think people seriously underestimate how good a 24" monitor compares to any large tv. Any tv I can afford is nowhere near as good as my monitor that I sit much closer to.
          Next time you go see a movie, sit in the back of the theater, then move to the front.
          I'm pretty sure the reason I hated Ace Combat on xbox is because I played it on a tv. 52 inch wouldn't be much of an improvement.

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            May 22, 2010 3:39 PM

            * hated Ace Combat and thought it was worse than HAWX in fact. Because HAWX was on PC on a good monitor. And I used a proper joystick.

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              May 22, 2010 4:52 PM

              Maybe my TV is nicer than one you can afford? :)

              Also, it's relaxing to sit back on the couch and play.

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                May 22, 2010 5:08 PM

                Yeah I'm just going against the idea that screen size is the only thing that matters. No matter how big your tv is you are still very detached from the game just by the sheer distance between couch and tv.

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            May 22, 2010 5:15 PM

            I played my 360 in college on me Dell 24" LCD.

            life was good.

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            May 23, 2010 8:30 AM

            Hook console to monitor boom

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        May 22, 2010 4:28 PM

        I do have a console and I could buy RDR for it if I wanted. I just prefer mouse and keyboard. I'm not really fussed, but I don't need the game urgently so I'm happy to wait.

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        May 22, 2010 4:38 PM

        I played it on the xbox and resold, couldn't stand the horrible control and the graphics I felt would look way way much better on a pc, helping sell the immersion even more.

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        May 22, 2010 4:38 PM

        Except for the Wii most of the console games I want to play come to the pc and have a better over all experience and the pc gets many games the consoles still don't because they're either quirky or don't fit well with a controller.

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        May 23, 2010 7:54 AM

        I own a 360 but hate the control scheme for these types of games.

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      May 22, 2010 2:03 PM

      rockstar toronto is a few miles away from me i can go in mission impossible style to check what theyre working on

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        May 22, 2010 4:45 PM

        You should and record the whole thing

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      May 22, 2010 5:41 PM

      It'll be on PC in a year and $10 at walmart a year after that.