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• because its their career? : orgcaptainnemo
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  because politicians have to pander to get elected. : DonkeyPopsicle
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    Which assumes that the public knows best, that the public is extremely well informed and that the public ... : SpaecKow
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      hence why democracy gets you shitty government. : DonkeyPopsicle
      • On the other hand, so does everything else.... : Arcanum
• $ : d1sregard
• So they have a clue about how government works. : pres589
• the word altruism will never have a place in politics, sadly. : erotic sock
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  Yeah, damn humans. We clearly need a sophisticated AI fused with a nano-enhanced soldier to really run t... : DinK
  • Wouldn't it be awesome though? It could be like Logans Run, and you could have sex-net and stuff... : SpaecKow
  • Denton in 2008. : al9000
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  Umm, appointed by who, exactly? : Arcanum
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    Indeed... there comes the problem. The idea would be to make the appointment process quite transparen... : SpaecKow
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      That doesn't address the who, though. Appointment requires a higher-ranking person to do the appointing.... : Arcanum
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        Well, presumably a government body. So, you'd have the Education ministry, and they'd get candidates for ... : SpaecKow
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          Who watches the watchers? Or in this case, who picks the pickers? They'll end up being career politicians... : UtilityMaximizer
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            Hey, benevolent dictatorship works great....Until it stops being benevolent. : Arcanum
            • Dude, it's simple, we just make it illegal to not be benevolent. DUH! : zuga
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  Take a political science class. : Ratsofatsorat
  • I couldn't afford it, really. See, DEMOCRACY HAS FAILED ME! WAAH :( : SpaecKow
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  don't you create a career politician by electing someone? : PUPSTAHS
  • #1037

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    By: SpaecKow x Show Full Post

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    What I mean by that is people who play at politics as a trade, not people who play at politics from an idealistic motivation to incite change and better the system.

    Dec 05, 2004 11:08pm CST
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    What I mean by that is people who play at politics as a trade, not people who play at politics from an id... : SpaecKow
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      Since their is no way to determine that... the real solution is to remove the ability for the government ... : trove
      • Ultimately perhaps not, but we can do a lot better then we are now in relation to the subject... : SpaecKow
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        This is the real answer. Once we see a nation that truly and fully supports this notion and holds it as ... : zuga
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          You know what that's called? Anarchy. It doesn't work very well. : Arcanum
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            "Anarchy is not Chaos," by David Friedman: In Washington there isn't any plan With "feeding David... : UtilityMaximizer
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              Doesn't anarchy encourage a pyramidal social structure? : SpaecKow
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                That depends on what you mean by "pyramidal social structure". Every society in history has had heirarchy... : UtilityMaximizer
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                  More or less, yeah, I don't mean in the sense that all would be the domain of a single man, I just mean t... : SpaecKow
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                    I don't know. The industrial revolution saw wealth spread from the wealthy to the growing middle class, a : UtilityMaximizer
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                      The industrial revolution also lead to the rise of the robber-barons and massive abuses of labor akin to ... : Arcanum
                      • this is mere hyperbole. The working conditions in the cottage industries or before weren't exactly good. : DonkeyPopsicle
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                        Utopia isn't an option; I'm not arguing for utopia. And I don't think the system I'm talking about will b... : UtilityMaximizer
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                          I think it's also important to note that many of the robber-barons came to power using government subsidi... : zuga
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                            In some cases, anyway. It depends on who one wants to call a robber-baron. Rockefeller made his oil money... : UtilityMaximizer
                            • I wonder how history will look back at Microsoft and it's anti-trust suits... will they be as demonized a... : zuga
                        • Ugh, that should be a higher wage, not a "hire" wage. And by "I don't think the system I'm talking about ... : UtilityMaximizer
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                          I wasn't saying it was terrible. I was just throwing out the bad side of the industrial revolution, sinc... : Arcanum
                          • And now I'm going to bed, for real this time. :) : Arcanum
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                      Firstly, thanks for the link, I'm always interested in reading up on this subject, and have been interes : SpaecKow
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                        capitolism > socialism In the end if you take every reason for an individual to strive to be the best ... : Nation
                        • Only some people are motivated primarily by competitive behavior. And (though some forms of socialism... : SpaecKow
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                        That's why I called them "government socialism/communism". There are people who advocate anarcho-socialis : UtilityMaximizer
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                          Chomsky is a good example of an outspoken anarcho-socialist, or what he calls "libertarian-socialism". O... : DonkeyPopsicle
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                            I've tried to figure out what Chomsky says on the matter, but I really can't figure out what it is that h : UtilityMaximizer
                            • yeah, he is frustratingly nebulous about any positive notions he might have. Anarcho-capitalists seem to... : DonkeyPopsicle
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                          They were in fact "very high". World class education and health (which is more or less true of all social... : SpaecKow
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                            Funny, I know quite a few former Yugoslavs, in my current department and previous departments. None of th : UtilityMaximizer
                            • Lemme put it this way, it was harder to buy stuff over there. Cars, tv's, fridges, furniture, etc. So peo... : SpaecKow
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                    Show me a system that doesn't work this way. Even a communist or socialist government with a redistribut... : zuga
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                      To be fair, there was a growing middle class in England, too, and even in France, contemporary with that ... : UtilityMaximizer
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                        But it could be argued that this was due to a growing acceptance in those countries of the ideas and prin... : zuga
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                          Even prior to the founding of the U.S., though. Economic growth started really going in the early 18th ce... : UtilityMaximizer
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                            I think the economic growth had more to do with the technological advances and the new products, methods,... : Arcanum
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                              I agree that a market economy is the key to sustained economic growth, and technological progress seems t : UtilityMaximizer
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                                I wouldn't consider a real authoritative communist (as opposed to pure communist) country to resemble a m... : Arcanum
                                • I'll agree with that, with the caveat that the more restrictions the economy had, the slower the growth. ... : UtilityMaximizer
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              Never mind that poem completely ignores the real world.... You know, the real world, where anarchy doe... : Arcanum
              • I don't think you understood the poem at all. The poem's point is that many aspects of the world run them : UtilityMaximizer
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            It's not anarchy. Government still has the role of preventing not only itself but others from effecting y... : zuga
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              You're contradicting yourself: "the real solution is to remove the ability for the government and politi... : Arcanum
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                It sounds like he's advocating minarchism. Replace "remove" with "reduce" and see if it makes more sense. : UtilityMaximizer
                • Dammit, I'm on crack. I thought zuga posted that quote, but it was trove. That means it's time to go to... : Arcanum
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                  Minarchy is definately a political idealogy that could be used to describe what I'm advocating. I'm hone... : zuga
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                    How are excise taxes and user fees magically not theft if other forms of taxation are? To illustrate: ... : Arcanum
                    • User fees aren't theft because they're payment for a direct service. For example, if you wanted to use th... : UtilityMaximizer
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                      It is not analogous to either. If a person doesn't own the land they have no right to force a fee with a ... : zuga
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                        What about excise tax? That's the government taking money from someone simply because they bought a part... : Arcanum
                        • yeah, I really don't see excise taxes as jibing with any sort of just minarchism. : DonkeyPopsicle
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                          Honestly I come to a wall at this point in my political thoughts. I feel that taxes of any kind are non-l... : zuga
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                            I'd like to see what someone with some knowledge concerning anarcho-capitalism and minarchism has to say ... : zuga
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                              You should read the Machinery of Freedom. That's what the second half of the book is about. Note that... : UtilityMaximizer
                              • Ok, I'll check it out. : zuga
• they're career politicians, so they're good at getting elected. credentials/altruism/greater good be damn... : Supine
• Perhaps a better idea would be to make certain educational requirements mandatory to run in a political e... : zuga
• Because the politicans rely on experts and consult with them. You wouldnt want a scientist in congress as... : mojoald
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  We also have career doctors, career lawyers, career teachers, career accountants, career... Getting an... : Bold
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    Except governing isn't the business of politics, it's the business of management. Politicians specialise ... : SpaecKow
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      Wrong. Wrong. So wrong. : mojoald
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        Then teach me right. : SpaecKow
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          Politicians are in charge of managing bureaucracy. The bureaucracy is what actually governors. : mojoald
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            The bureaucracy is a tool for politicians to implement policies. They give orders and the bereaucracy exe... : SpaecKow
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              I'm not saying it doesnt happen, I'm saying in general this is the way it works. : mojoald
              • And I too would say it is possible for a particular bureaucratic body to gain political power and so have... : SpaecKow
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      So long as politics offers power, people who are good at getting power will pursue it. Those who are best... : UtilityMaximizer
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        Whatever happened to the scholarly renaissance men like Jefferson and Franklin? How was that lost? : zuga
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          You can't expect to sustain a long series of such remarkable men. And even they were rare for their time,... : UtilityMaximizer
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            And Franklin liked the French : mojoald
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              I like the French. :( They gave us the Statue of Liberty, and paid for it entirely with private donations... : UtilityMaximizer
              • Although I can't really get interested in their food. It's funny how it used to be considered the cuisine... : UtilityMaximizer
• I tried to run but I lack the money :( : rosewood
• I thought about posting what I guessed was happening with you, but I said "as screw it, what does it matt... : Nation