XNA Game Studio Express / Torque X

• Platform: PC, Xbox 360
• Published by: Microsoft / GarageGames
• Developed by: Microsoft / GarageGames
• Release Date: Holiday Season 2006
• Genre: Other
• Multiplayer: Yes
• Online: Yes

Microsoft Gamefest 2006: GarageGames Interview Continued..

Shack: Do you want to speak a bit on the concept of managed code, and what that means in terms of usability and efficiency, and potential hits on performance?

Joshua Williams: Sure. So, what managed code means is that, whereas with C++ or native languages you're talking direectly to the metal and there's nothing between you and your executable, in a managed environment you have this layer between you and the hardware. That gives you a lot of nice benefits, like you don't have to worry so much about your low level memory management stuff. I guess in layman's terms, it cleans up a lot of the nasty work you have to do even in high level languages like C++. It also gives you a nice safe execution environment, so the output from managed platforms like .NET is generally more secure than output from arbitrary code execution like in C++, so there are some wins with managed platforms.

One thing is that, in business development and application development, it's pretty commonly heard that developers are about 50-100% making managed apps than they are making C++ apps, just because there are less headaches. The downside that people talk about is usually that for managed languages such as C# or Java, there's less performance than with C++. But, Microsoft has done a really good job of making the C# platform, and XNA in particular, really perform. Our game engine is up and running, and the framerates we get in our demos are comparable to what we see with our C++ engine. That actually blew us away. When Microsoft first approached us about this stuff, we thought it was kind of an insane idea, because we believed in the misconception that everyone else does, that managed code is not performant enough to do realtime 3D or high end games, but it turns out it is.

Shack: In that vein, what would you say to those who maintain that someone who's starting out in development should be learning assembly and low level languages as grounding, the sort of approach prescribed by people like John Carmack? What's your take on that?

Mark Frohnmayer: I would say that there's a place for that kind of person, too. You have that option, even with Torque running in C++. The question I would have is, how many people actually fit that mold? I mean, John Carmack is one of the most brilliant programmers in the games industry. I think for the vast majority of people starting out, things like memory overwrite bugs, where the application crashes and they can't figure it out, are simply going to turn them away from games. I think one of the problems we've had in the games industry, especially with getting new people and new ideas as well as retaining people with talent, is that there are a lot of things that are hard, and there are a lot of things that are hard that don't need to be hard. The more that we can do to make that process easier, the more we can include people not just as consumers of our games, but as creators of the gaming experience. To me, the most fun in games is making games. It's bringing your own creation to life, then playing it and having a good time with it.

Really, the purpose of what GarageGames is in business for is to allow that to happen. Managed code is a super awesome piece of that whole puzzle, of making games more fun and easier to make. That's only going to result in good things both for game makers and game players.

Shack: Could you explain specifically what users will be able to do with just the free downloaded version of XNA Game Studio Express and then what you get with the $99 annual fee? I've noticed some people have been a little unclear on that.

Joshua Williams: Sure, so with just the free version you get the whole IDE, so again it's similar to Visual Studio in the way it's laid out, and you can make games on it and play them on the PC. The subscription piece that Microsoft offers gives you the opportunity to deploy those games to your 360 and play them. Also that creator's club gives you early access to some starter kits and stuff that they're putting out, early access to some content that they'll be putting out over time. They haven't revealed a lot of details as to how that stuff is going to work, but that's what they're saying their plan is.

To us, that's exciting, because we do the same sort of stuff already in the GarageGames community. We have art content packs and starter kits and stuff to help you get up and running, and we see each time we do one of those it helps people's productivity a huge amount. As soon as a content pack comes out, which is a bunch of prepackaged art that you can use in your game, we see demos coming out using that art and you can tell it gets people up and running more quickly. Likewise, starter kits are a huge leg up for when you're trying to do specific kinds of games. So with some of the demos we have for Torque Game Builder, we shipped demos that are like starter kits for doing sidescrollers, or top down games, or whatnot. The fact that Microsoft has taken the same tactic is encouraging to us because it will give people a big leg up from just getting started at the baseline. So that's what you get with the subscription: deploy to the 360, and access to the creator's club.

Shack: So while the big news here is the greater accessibility of console development, Microsoft has recently been taking a very strong stance about where they want to go with Windows gaming. What are your thoughts on the future of PC development and PC gaming?

Mark Frohnmayer: I would say that PC development up until now has been kind of a nightmare. If you think about what we go through as PC game developers, dealing with everything from driver compatibility issues to hardware differentials between systems ends up being a huge part of the hassle of getting games out on the PC, as well as having a good system on the back end that's simple for consumers to download games or get them on the system and install them. What I've heard from Microsoft as far as their initiative on Windows gaming is to make it a much more console-like experience. You go to the store, it's very clear what titles are appropriate, you can take them home for a much easier installation process and there's a much easier process for game developers to build those games. It seems like they're moving in the right direction in that regard as well. But I think it's all about making our end user experience as gamers more pleasant.

I think the opportunities that exist on the PC currently for people to make money are wide and varied, as far as being able to make a living making games, so the more we can encourage a common platform to develop our games, the easier it will be for people to bring them to market and make a living at it. That's really kind of closing the whole loop on the independent game idea. It's all well and good to be able to make games, but then also to be able to make a living at it if you really enjoy it, without necessarily having to go to work for an established game studio and to do it yourself as an indie, is really great. I think people more and more are being able to do that.

Shack: On that end user side of things, does GarageGames have any new games in the works, or are you guys pretty full up with work on your development tools right now?

Mark Frohnmayer: For games? We do have a couple things that we can't talk about just yet. [laughs]

Joshua Williams: We got a couple things brewing.

Mark Frohnmayer: We're about to release our first actual legimitate casual game that we developed in house. It just went into beta last week. We're about to release a new set of levels for Marble Blast Ultra on Xbox 360. We did a whole new set of multiplayer maps that are actually a lot of fun. Then we have another game that's in the early stages of development that's going to totally rock. We will give you much more information on that as we get closer.

Shack: Anything related to Tribes? I'm sure you guys get asked that every day.

Mark Frohnmayer: It actually is in a lot of ways a gameplay homage to Tribes, but it's a very different genre.

Joshua Williams: It's going to be cool.

Mark Frohnmayer: It will be cool.

Shack: Thanks for talking to us.

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