Elite Force CD Key Problem

This will be a two-parter, starting with #69, Zann:

Why do you think any company owes you anything beyond what's in the box?

Companies have recently started giving out free stuff, and it looks like it's cought on, as several companies have taken a similar policy. Valve, is constantly talking about their Counter Strike add-on that original HL customers can d/l for free, and there was a newsposting about their announcement to do so. Daikatana, while not a failure fresh new content-wise, released free levels after the initial game shipped, which were not necessary to complete the origianl game. Cavedog's Kingdoms got more units and maps after the game went gold. Had Looking Glass stuck around, I'm sure their games would have duplicated this activity. I could go on with more companies that have adopted this priority, as it is a good thing for us and them in the long run.

Why are they doing it at all? We as consumers are not entitled to anything after the initial purchase, so why are more and more game companies doing this sort of thing? There're aren't 'less' companies doing after-purchase incentives, there are MORE companies offering free after-purchase incentives. Why? Here's a simple reason - the game was received as lacking content, depth, or length. In short, there wasn't enough playtime from start to finish, or enough challenges, or... There could be a number of reasons why a game might fail. The point is, companies feel that offering original game-enhancing incentives such as levels, new features or is important because it makes the consumer happy by adding to the purchase. Why else offer such things? Extra levels cost time to polish or create, and usually those levels were made for a plotline segment that was cut or was radically modified, and may have been made weeks or months earlier. To make new extra stuff takes time and more money, which is important to a project that could pull a 'Mageslayer' and show bad results.

I think companies that produce top-notch 'game of the year' caliber material that also give out stuff for free are some of the most generous of them all. You know what I'm talking about, you buy a great game, and then there's also this extra free stuff on the net, you're like, 'this is a value for sure'. Other companies that should release free stuff should do it regardless, because it's the right thing to do. How do we know if the game was deserving of such free stuff? usually you can tell by sales. If the sales are low, isn't this an indicator of how popular or successful this game was, referring specifically to Mageslayer here. So, naturally, shouldn't a company that makes a flop game, that also wants to still be around to make more games, that generate sales to support making more games, shouldn't a company do whatever it takes to ensure their customer base remains loyal forever and ever? And isn't it a conflicting interest to say that you are a supporter of releasing source code for your games - but just the games that sell, and ignore the games that didn't sell as well? Aren't there brand-loyal consumers that want the source code for Raven games that didn't sell as well, but want the code just as much?

Raven got better at making games because they started making better games. However, while Raven slowly learned what makes games sell good, many customers bought their products. No one wants to be on the losing side, but customers can understand when the game was dropped and the subject closed. Showing a sudden concern in releasing code isn't completely honest until a company (Raven, in this case) does the same to their older material. Continuity, across the board.

So that's why a company should provide free goods and services: because if you do if for your hits, you should also do if for your flops. Bugfixes are like a warranty on a new item, and if you don't fix your bugs for free, people will stop buying your games when someone else does for free. Again, it's the right thing to do, for all parties concerned. Promote the customer, promote continued growth.

Hmmm. Seems logical to me.

Now for #68, rickmus:

I honestly don't know how many games release the source to their abandoned or aged games. And, not trying to be disrespectful, but who cares? I mean, if it's a god thing, and companies are already doing it, and seeing positive feedback for doing it, which turns into a customer investment, which turns into potental sales.

Picture a pepperoni pizza. Most pizza parlors offer free parmasean cheese and peppers for your pizza. You don't need them to eat a pizza, and they could easily charge for it, so why? They do it because it accents or inflates the value of the purchase, besides making it taste different. Cheese and peppers are a lot more expensive than table salt and pepper, so product value isn't the reason... People hear, 'oh free parmasean cheese and red peppers, I'm going to use as much as I want', because these were given to me for FREE, and after all, I kinda paid for it, since it goes with my order.

Now picture an unhappy customer, with a burt pizza. The pizza was still edible, it was still healthy to eat, but it was clearly not what the customer wanted, and now they are dissatisfied. Do you think they will be happy with the mention of FREE PARMASEAN CHEESE AND RED PEPPERS? Heck no, they are going to want something more.

A quality multi-topping pizza costs around $17-$21, depending on where you go - and I ain't talking about quantity over quality either. That's almost half the value of a Raven game. A pizza, which will be gone in an hour, gets more respect than a Mageslayer game that will be around for a lot longer.

Tell me why a pathetic product like Mageslayer gets no support or compensation (sorry, we made a game that sucked), while you insist on rewarding customrs that support the games that make you rich? If you need lipgloss to survive in Asskiss-ville, spend the $1.75 and buy it. We'll still be here, as always.

If you're about to say, 'get of Mageslayer, it was a dumb flop', you missed the point. Raven not going back and making good their bad games is just as important as doing it for their new games in that is shows their true intent, and their customer appreciation for sticking with them during the 'learning years'.

Thanks!

-Lex

Rick -- Parallax released the Descent source, and Crack.Com released the source to Abuse. Don't have any other names off the top of my head though, I'm sure there's a couple.

Lex -- Why do you think any company owes you anything beyond what's in the box? So far as I'm aware, Mageslayer worked and wasn't hugely bug ridden or anything, did it even require any patching?

My point is, there is absolutely nothing saying any company has to release 'extra' anything. When Raven, Epic, Valve, or whoever release a set of free levels, models, whatever after the fact that's a bonus, it's hardly something you should expect or that they owe you. In exchange for your $40 you got a product; a game you can install and play. You also get support in the form of bug fixes and technical help should it conflict with your machine somehow.

'Bonus' releases in the form of levels, mods, or models are just that, a bonus.

How many games can you name, that have released the source code? Doom, Heretic/Hexen, Quake 1, and I'm working on getting Hexen2 to be released. Other than that, what companies other than Raven / id have released source code to complete games?

I am sitting here, holding the Mageslayer cd. To think that Raven didn't lift a finger to extend the lifespan of this minor title is irresponible.

Thanks!

-Lex

My reference to the NeoGeo Pocket development and the JDoom and Wolfgl development pools, was to illustrate that people find it cool to work on 'dead' or hardware. In fact, since the hack community is still working on those 'dead' titles, they are still very much alive.

Thanks!

-Lex

54 -- You didn't answer my question, so I'll restate it differently.

So basically you're saying, they released a game with a number of questionable design decisions and ended up with sales that reflected that... so they should sit down and redesign several aspects of the game and patch it? Why would anyone do that, exactly, when their sales are dismal and there's no appreciable demand for it? The game failed, they moved on. Sounds reasonable.

Total Carnage was a Robotron clone if I recall correctly, it was an arcade game and not a particularly popular one at that -- it lived in the shadow of Smash TV, really. It being successful or not doesn't have anything to do with Mageslayer, they're completely different markets.

You know, I started to type up a huge response to Lex, but it isn't worth it. When some one is out to get you, they will go all out.

If you liked Trek, then good. If you liked Trek, but thought it was short, then ok. But if you didn't like Trek because it was too short, then that's not good. Making games isn't a science. You aim for 18+ months to get to a certain point going for a certain target audience. Trek's target was not the typical FPS player, but more towards one that hasn't ever played an FPS before, but likes the Trek universe. Doing a game under the Trek universe doesn't allow us complete freedom, so we have to do the design within many restrictions.

Sorry we let you down, Lex. We aren't perfect, we don't have the luxuary of taking 3+ years to make a game (well, in the past, the future, well there are some very interesting things a foot...). Feel free to send me your ideas on how you would like to shape our future projects (yes I'm serious), and you can probably think that I have one particular sequel on mind (though nothing is ever official).



As for the CD Key, I'm quite stunned about it as well. How ever the printing process for the labels decided to change 0's into spaces is beyond me. This, unfortunately, was out of Raven's hands. We don't even get to see the final product until after it has arrived in the stores. The only "good" part of this is that it affects only 2 possible characters at the end of the key. Glad I don't work for Activision's customer support.

Rick

It seems there was an anomaly when printing out the CD keys

heh, you can tell he's a trekkie

Love,
Al Gore

Lex -- You know, I always used to wonder why people yelled at you all the time...

Going back to Mageslayer, it was released, got okay-to-marginal reviews, and didn't sell well so far as I can recall. What did you expect them to do with it, make ten sequals and release a bunch of freebies for it?

I think a 'tour-mode' would have been just the thing to hype the fans and get them telling their friends about it, who might not have normally bought it otherwise.

For those that didn't get it, a 'tour-mode' could expand (and extend) playability because your are 'playing' or acting like you are walking through the ship, watching crewmembers perform daily and routine duties, without the red-alert 'I'm the only one who can save the warpcore' theatrics. Believe it or not, many Star Trek (and seperatly Voyager fans too) would kill for a chance to walk the corridors of Voyager - or any other Federation starship for that matter, and explore.

Heck, even if the sequel was simply a walk through the entire ship, where everything worked, and every device or panel was functional would be worth buying.

Thanks!

-Lex

Hahahaha! Not only is the game on the 'brief' side, not only does the holomatch smell like Q3 Spirit, but now there's this bungle in the jungle.

I'm through with Raven - just gimme my free SOF Gold upgrade so I can at least look at the Q2-driven beverage coaster I bought and finally set my drink down with pride.

Hi, were Raven. We've made a game that's based on a series that's about to be canceled. Don't ask for a 'tour mode' or original multiplayer content, 'cause we rushed things so we could make as much money as we could before Christmas!

Thanks!

-Lex

Why do you think that the Star Wars franchise is so slow to make games - because they want to do the right thing for the franchise. Force Commander wasn't all that great, but you can bet that the next Star Wars game to hit the shelves will be a lot better.

Coming down the pipeline:

Star Wars persistant world / Verrant (under development)
Star Wars Tales of The Jedi / BioWare (under development)

My point is not to say that Star Wars is better, but to ask 'why rush a game to market if it's just going to be the next lump of shit in the pot'?

Raven could have added a 'tour-mode' which would have extended gameplay and made the true Star Trek fans happy - the same fans that watch the damn show.

Thanks!

-Lex

Raven says, "we will consider a sequel based on how well this game sells."

Uh, but the Star Trek gaming franchise is the weakest video gaming franchise there is, with more misses than hits. Who is going to buy a sequel to a show that's not even on the air anymore?

Let's see, there's:
STAR TREK: Starfleet Command Vol II Empires At War / Interplay (under development)
STAR TREK Away Team / Reflexive intertainment / Activision (under development)
BRIDGE COMMANDER / Totally Games / Activision (under development)
STAR TREK New Worlds / Interplay
STAR TREK ConQuest / Genetic Anomolies / Activision
STAR TREK Klingon Academy / Interplay
STAR TREK Armada / Activision
STAR TREK Birth of The Federation / Microprose
STAR TREK Insurrection / Activision
STAR TREK: Starfleet Command / Interplay

And something about Deep Space Nine, I'm sure.

Yeah, Raven, hurry and get your product to market, so you can join the slew of other Star Trek fossils that are waiting for you in the gaming graveyard.

Thanks!

-Lex

Here's another little Raven history lesson:

Mageslayer (1997) / GT Interactive

This is an original in-house property that wasn't worthy enough to receive any add-on or modifications, this is a project that Raven simply 'pulled the plug' on. That's a class act.

Let me see, could the reason that they never did anything more with that title have anything to do with the fact that they are with Activision now?

Thanks!

-Lex

/me yells at steve

bad steve, bad

So much for QA !!

firstalicious

in win2k, how do you get rid of the lil media player thing in windows explorer? i don't like it because when i click mp3s it plays them instead of enqueue (which is what i have selected)

What was that all about!

"Oops."

Thats a major fuckup

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