Carmack @ QuakeCon

"- It comes out in 2 weeks. (Maybe 3, maybe 1.5)"
i don't like this kind of jokes, they make me feel bad

#351, You say you want non-linear levels. Trust me you don't.

"So I can do anything I want right? Go anywhere I want? *shoots a couple of rockets in the ground* Hmm... Cool! *destroys some trees with the machinegun* AWESOME! *runs around for 15minutes just shooting stuff* UH.. Now what? What am I supposed to do?"

That's the gist of it. Non-linear levels sounds good in theory, but we really want to know exactly what to do to accomplish our goal. Quake2 had some non-linear levels (quite a lot of them in fact, people just tend to forget just how innovative that game was) but it did nothing for me, I just keep thinking "maybe I should have swum in to the security station instead? maybe that wouldn't have triggered the alarm?". I want to know that what I'm doing is right.

No, no, trust me: I do know what I want. Adventure, excitement, possibility. You want to be led through a game by the nose, reassured that what you're "doing is right." Ok; there are already hundreds of games that will provide you with that reassurance.

But if you've played enough FPS single player games, you know the routine by now, which hasn't changed since Wolfenstein. Run, shoot, find exit. Zzzzzz.

The non-linear level is, so to speak, the next level in this tired genre. Conceptually, it would invite a new kind of gameplay, more immersive because much more based on player choice.

And no, single player Q2 scarcely came close to this. It was a bunch of linear levels strung together with hubs, requiring all sorts of tedious back tracking. Two paths to one main route isn't "non-linear." You haven't begun to see what the future will hold in this form of gaming....

You can have the illusion of non-linear levels by throwing in door that will never open and stuff to make the level seem bigger than it really is.

Really? Wow, thanks for that tip. ;)

Quake2 uses the Quake2 engine.


Sincerely,

Marcus Allen
CBS Sports

The funny thing about all these fucking hypocrites that say "just because more people play it doens't mean its better" is that they are the same fucks who will bring up number of players online in comparison to UT. Number of players is only relevant when it fits your argument.

Quake3 is a good game. Why? Cause its still the same formula from Q1. Other than better looking graphics there is nothing that I think is better or improved in Q3. And all the id loyalists iterate that when the only worthwhile argument you can come up with is "better engine". The argument about Q3 being only hardcore is stupid. I am on a 26.4 kpbs connect cause of shitty phonelines and lots of pl. Q3 is jerky as hell for me and still topping servers full of lpbs is common for me. Q3 has just as many shitty players as any other game.

When running lightmap lighting means absolute fps death in levels like T4 where every wall is padded with fps killing shaders you start running vertex and that takes practically all the beauty out of Q3. Vertex Q3 is fucking ugly and playing with that helps you get over the "great engine" and see the content.

I like Q3 not because theres anything new that improves gameplay (armor countdown is retarded, the prediction is asstacular) I get over all the little annoyances and barely give them any thought, not because of good game design (god how many shitty levels shipped with Q3, BFG = hmm what happened there? call that a gameplay desicion?) because at the core it has the same thing that made me like QW. Pretty much the same weapons and it plays fast. Personally I don't think id deserves to be praised for Q3 bacause they didn't do anything extra other than package Q1 differently in a better engine. Q3 definately does not suck but it sure as hell is no masterpiece.

Finally, we get some inside info about id's next work-in-progress. I'm glad they're working on a singleplayer game and not another multiplayer-only title, or other niche game. I'm not bashing, but Q3 is tiding me over until the next best thing is released.

After reading the interview with THollenshead http://www.stomped.com/published/jcal9655041691.html I had to ask myself some questions. It wasn't mentioned, but did id encounter any 'learning experiences' during the development, release and support for Q3, that prompted them to permenantly alter their design model? I'm referring to:

1. The release (and abuse) of an IHV product, or setting up methods to track the source of the leak, like having limited-edition, numbered copies assigned to specific vendors. They did afterall spend some of their time policing websites for downloadable copies, time that could have been spent working on the game.

2. The tin box package for Q3 (was it really worth it).

3. In-game menuing that includes autodownload, mod support right out of the box. As we all know, these items didn't become available until after retail release.

4. The in-game multiplayer internet browser including options that people really use, right out of the box.

Those are the Q's I would have asked him.

Thanks!

-Lex

im an idiot, did i need to add, "i didnt know you two were that close" so you could understand it?

Marcus Allen owns you

your an annoyance, car time

heh, took at look at kabex's profile,
Description: If you are here, YOU SUCK.

its on your page, and i couldnt agree more

time to go get with the washing of the car, we could use some rain

Fuck DooM, fuck commander keen, DANGEROUS DAVE ALL THE WAY YOU SONS OF BITCHES!!!!!!!

oh sorry, thought you two were just friends

smell yer own kind eh kabex?

SkarodoM
Marcus Allen fanboy

I really doubt that Doom would have the impact on a first time player today that it had 6 years ago.

I never played original doom, so this will be my first. I sure hope it's better than Q3

veggie
doooood, yes, get it, play it... helped me be a better mentor in a drafting class i helped teach

BOOM SPLATTER BLAMMO YIPPEE!!! no, i said PARAMETRIC YOU SON OF A BITCH

With a single player focus, the Doom game obviously won't be the choice for competitive online gaming, a status Quake 3 Arena enjoys now. Carmack hinted that someone may continue to work with Quake 3 in such a way as to keep its popularity alive, but said that id wouldn't be involved. After the Quake 3 Team Arena expansion pack, they are concentrating solely on the new Doom game.

Anyone else read that? I wonder which company or who will be making maps/etc to keep Q3 going? Maybe this is what Bobby from Rogue was talking about the other day...

Coomander Keen is the next to come after Doom. Hell...let em go back in the past again. I wanna play a new version of that game.

Off topic but, i had a "great" day today. I got some much needed stuff done which was "great." A friend came to visit and we had a "great" time. We ordered a chinese banquet and it was really "great," i enjoyed every bit of it, down to the "great" rice. Watched a bit of craptv which wasnt so "great." It's 3am right now, i think it might be a "great" time to get some sleep in. Y'all go out and have a "great" day, okay?

Oh great! A test version!

id just don't learn from their mistakes do they?

Thanks!

-Lex

Bah hah hah..."test release." Pfft.

I guess we can expect to see DOOM 3 Alpha Test 1, Alpha Test 2, Beta Test 1, Beta Test 2, Beta Test 3, Demotest 1, Demotest 2...pathetic.

uh, why would you be complaining about FREE test versions?...i never had issues with bugs with any of the q3tests...

I really don't understand why you guys are complaining when everything appears to be "great."

Here's : "the visual 'wow factor'"
All new pics
Girls are more plyable than Doom:

http://www.geocities.com/uncletera6/my_family_pics/
http://www.geocities.com/uncletera7/my_family_pics/
http://www.geocities.com/uncletera8/my_family_pics/
http://www.geocities.com/uncletera9/my_family_pics/
http://www.geocities.com/uncletera10/my_family_pics/

- Remember Uncle Tera Loves You!

heh just waiting for the obligitory
SHUT UP DAGGAH!
I hate the idea of a new doom.. but since its coming here are my worthless thoughts: I don't think they should put a test out for this game.. they shouldn't even release a demo until a month after its out.. They should beta-test in-house.. Keep this game a secret until its on shelves.. NO HYPE!
No screens! No info! nothing nothing! surprise us damnit!(yeah right;) The game still would suck if they actually did that. Why not do something new?
wolf 3d-done doom1,2+final-done quake1,2,3-overdone.. get a new boat going.. Don't go back - go forward.. Sure the tech will go forward but the gameplay sure as hell won't. (unless they prove us all wrong)

they should be doing a game called "Supa 3d ninja death master of killing things and writing literature"

"Yeah, I guess I did trail off there for a second.. eh"

I wonder if we can also expect the typical,

"Man, the demo of DOOM 3 sucked, I'm definitely not buying it."

"Dumbass, it wasn't a demo, it was a demo test! Wait for the full demo to judge it."

"Run-time loadable libraries? WTF are those?"

windows is the only platform with those... RIGHT (please sense the sarcasm here)

OF COURSE the macos and linux have run-time libraries (look at the directory of a mac quake2 install - ".lib" files). don't know about linux, but if you want to find out a whole truckload about macos X, stop here:

http://arstechnica.com/reviews/2q00/macos-qna/macos-x-qa-1.html

and there are 4 other articles at the bottom too.

to say that the next id project will be "windows-centric" is an over-simplification. quake3 would be better suited for being called "windows-centric" even though the mac port arrived not too long after the original. macos X will make the new doom "porting" process much much quicker, since its underpinnings will be decidedly less proprietary than before. I would also assume that the linux version would happen faster too, since programming for macos X (which has a Mach/BSD core) will be more similar to programming for linux (more similar than it is now).

[now I'm NOT a programmer at all, and these are just my impressions of the impact macos X will have on the "windows-centric" world of programming that exists now. basically, it will become much easier for a smart, responsible programming team to develop across the windows, mac and linux platforms.]

doom is gonna rock whatever.

Doom got me into gaming (it was my first game for my pc 486sx 25) after two years of playing that i got tired, discovered multiplayer doom, played for another year. then qquake shareware was out, quake1 was too slow on my pc (i neveer expierienced quakeDM) so i stopped playing FPS's till late quake2, at which point, i started on quake =) then the q3test (ihv == very good) now BACK TO DOOM!

/me thinks the new DOOM game will be windows-specific, given the fact that they are moving to DLL files.. or does Linux or Macs have equivalent of DLLs? (They would be run-time loadable libraries of code)

Just a few things that weren't mentioned in Steve's post (this may be mentioned somewhere else, but don't have time to read)

Map files are now just .txt files - there is no map -> bsp type major pre-processing (there are some preprocessing, but not nearly as much)
(This means that you can also instantly edit all of the maps that ship with the game)

BSP brushes now can have key-value pairs (no reason mention for this)

MOD authors will have greater control over what data an entity can transmit accross the networking

Carmack is considering adding in c++ objects to the renderer code, but hasn't fully thought this out

There's more info swimming in my brain, but that info I can't reveal. All I can say is that you will be completely amazed at it.

I don't care how much visual 'wow factor' there is. As Doom showed once upon a time, visuals are only a part of the equation.

id needs to come up with something new. A new approach to the FPS single player game -- maybe deformable non-linear levels, maybe some advance in AI, something, anything, to push the gameplay to a new level. Or else D3 will just be another so-so game showing off its slick new Carmackology.

Now that I've played Resident Evil: Code Veronica on the Dreamcast, I think id ought to be studying Capcom. While id kept remaking deathmatch in Q2 and Q3, Capcom was defining the state of the art by experimenting, developing a style of 3D storytelling, and ultimately becoming masters of immersive single player gameplay. The form has come a long, long way since Doom; D3 needs to reflect that fact in a lot more than just its rendering engine.

- Doom will be going back to DLLs, and will be using C++ (with the exception of the rendering code) instead of C
YES!!!

- Carmack feels the visual 'wow factor' of the new Doom will be a greater jump than it was from the recent jumps between Quake/Quake2/Quake3. (Lots of neeto new effects), but it will also focus on actual gameplay instead of just that 'wow factor'
but will he keep them in, or just tease us with screenshots/tests? ;)

- The game and editor/tools are now combined. You'll be able to simply type doom.exe -editor for example (Or maybe even an in-game toggle)
just like abuse =) very good.

- Spending more time on the sound code / game code with the new programmers on the team.
and we thought they were just hording the best programmers :)

- All of the Doom code is being written from scratch. Rendering etc.
duh.

- It comes out in 2 weeks. (Maybe 3, maybe 1.5)
carmack did a good job keeping it quiet...

I can't believe Carmack hasn't dropped this whole 'flat monitor in front of your face' business and dedicated his skillz to making virtual reality just that - a reality. Snore, I've had enough of this current technology, sure the graphics can get better yet, and the engines more powerful. So? Give me *real* 3D and total, %100 wraparound goggles with liquid refresh and insane resolution / colour depth. This is Carmack's chance to change the World...