World of Warcraft 'lost our way a little' with Cataclysm

World of Warcraft lead system designer Greg Street says Blizzard "lost our way a little bit" with Cataclysm, which the team tried to rectify with Pandaria and subsequent patches.

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World of Warcraft is still going strong, but a decade of constant tweaks, revisions, and expansions has made Blizzard especially attuned to how small changes impact the experience. Greg Street, lead systems designer for the game, says that Cataclysm altered combat in a way that hurt the game, which the team tried to fix in the subsequent Mists of Pandaria expansion.

"We felt like since [Cataclysm], we'd lost our way a little bit," Street told IGN. "We had some really epic quests and we've told some great stories, but the second-to-second combat out in the field wasn't as interesting.

"So we made an effort with the launch of Pandaria and we redoubled it with this most recent patch to make a lot of cool stuff for players to do out in the world. We still have great dungeons and other instance content, but we also just have fun things to do out in the world with your friends."

The patch he's referring to, the 5.2 or Thunder King patch, was released last week. It added a new raid, new bosses, and a daily quest hub.

Street also mentioned that the widespread use of flying mounts made it too easy to fly over areas completely. In the new areas, flying is disabled. "Somewhere along the way, we'd lost the sense that being outdoors in the world was kind of a dangerous thing," he said. "Walking around and fighting mobs is basically the heart of World of Warcraft, and we had lost a little bit of that and wanted to make it fun again."

Editor-In-Chief
From The Chatty
  • reply
    March 12, 2013 9:00 AM

    Steve Watts posted a new article, World of Warcraft 'lost our way a little' with Cataclysm.

    World of Warcraft lead system designer Greg Street says Blizzard "lost our way a little bit" with Cataclysm, which the team tried to rectify with Pandaria and subsequent patches.

    • reply
      March 12, 2013 9:11 AM

      Blizzard lost it's way with WoW. Not saying that from a business perspective they weren't very successful, but they are not the same Blizzard I adored growing up.

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        March 12, 2013 9:15 AM

        What do you think they could have done differently with WoW to make them be more like "your" Blizzard?

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        March 12, 2013 9:17 AM

        yikes. this is pretty shallow and naive.

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        March 12, 2013 9:17 AM

        This makes no sense.

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        March 12, 2013 9:24 AM

        [deleted]

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        March 12, 2013 9:27 AM

        I disagree and I never plan on playing it again.

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        March 12, 2013 9:33 AM

        I agree. They started dumbing their games down a lot.

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          March 12, 2013 9:34 AM

          [deleted]

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            March 12, 2013 9:44 AM

            Diablo 2 was far more complex and "hardcore" than D3. Same with vanilla WoW and current WoW.

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              March 12, 2013 1:24 PM

              [deleted]

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                March 12, 2013 2:13 PM

                Sure there was. Many more stats, 40 man raids, much larger skill trees.

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                  March 12, 2013 2:53 PM

                  -Raids that required resistence sets instead of just maxing out primary attributes.
                  -Complex boss fight mechanics that required crowd control, off tanking, etc.
                  -Multiple viable builds and specs

                  Now everything is a speed run and tired as shit. :(

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                    March 12, 2013 3:00 PM

                    Resistance sets = more farming and rep grind
                    Plenty of cc/off tanking and mechanics in current raids as well

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                    March 12, 2013 3:54 PM

                    Pretty much. It feels very mechanical now.

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                    March 12, 2013 7:14 PM

                    If you think fights are less complex now it can only be assumed you're only doing LFR raids.

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                    March 12, 2013 11:08 PM

                    -Complex boss fight mechanics. . .

                    Most of Molten Core was "healers hit dispel button a lot." Most of BWL was that, plus some adds.

                    -Multiple viable builds and specs

                    In Vanilla? Your rose-tinted glasses need adjustment. Most hybrid classes only had one raid spec (hint: healing) Hell, most classes only had one raid spec.

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                  March 12, 2013 3:33 PM

                  [deleted]

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                    March 12, 2013 3:52 PM

                    Resists, spellpower, defense, block, armour penetration, mana regeneration. You had to actually think a little about your gear. Sure there were cookie cutter builds, but you could spec into things like sub/assassination and a bit of combat on a rogue, and make it work. 40 people trying to work together is indeed more challenging, e.g. trying to get away from people when you have living bomb on you.

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                  March 12, 2013 4:13 PM

                  Lots of stats didn't matter because there wasn't much choice between gear, now with reforging choosing stats is way more complicated. 40 man raids were just way too large to be viable as endgame content. Large skill trees were pointless because you just copied the best spec from the internet, now you actually have to choose on your own which talents are better.

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                    March 12, 2013 4:17 PM

                    "You just copied the best spec from the internet" is the same reasoning that was given for D3, and that is just stupid. You copied the best spec from the internet, not everyone in the game.

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                      March 12, 2013 4:34 PM

                      I'm not sure your point? The talent system now has many choices that are situational, so you might switch it as often as between boss fights or depending on your play style. In most cases there isn't a "best" choice for talents, unlike previous expansions.

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                        March 12, 2013 4:48 PM

                        Yeah, I'm not a fan of that either. I want some permanent choices.

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                          March 12, 2013 7:25 PM

                          so you were against paying gold to a trainer to reset your talents too?

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                            March 13, 2013 4:50 AM

                            No, I was fine with that because the cost was exorbitant.

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                    March 12, 2013 6:49 PM

                    The stats mattered when you could differentiate specs. Some people may have looked up min/max guides online to find out what was best for just pure DPS, but you didn't have to to be viable!

                    I loved trying out different (non-standard) talent specs and combining that with certain gear and stat assortments to see what I could pull off. It was so much fun going into a raid or a BG with a spec that no one had seen before, and then blowing people away with how effective you were. Granted, I was nerfing myself in certain areas by not picking the "best" talent spec posted online, but I was blowing people out of the water in other areas.

                    Now with just picking a spec, EVERYONE has been forced into the "best" talen spec in the game. There's no experementation and tweaking. The talents today are just fringe, they don't actually change how you play for the most part. Everyone just goes through the motions while staring at DPS/Healing meters.

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                      March 12, 2013 7:35 PM

                      [deleted]

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                      March 12, 2013 9:26 PM

                      Which classes are forced into the "best" spec?! I've tried looking up ideal talents for warrior but the best results I could find were theorycrafting forums of people testing out different talents but never really landing on one that was definitely superior in all situations. A lot of them have obviously situational options (t2/t5 and the two stuns) and others are obviously choices of playstyle (t1/t4). The only talent choice I see as superior in all situations is t2 with Second Wind.

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                March 12, 2013 3:10 PM

                [deleted]

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                  March 12, 2013 3:36 PM

                  [deleted]

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                  March 12, 2013 4:16 PM

                  Blizzard has made arms warriors much more complicated now by changing around their rotation every goddamn patch.

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                    March 12, 2013 4:20 PM

                    [deleted]

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                      March 12, 2013 4:32 PM

                      Rage management is still important, and they've made the Arms rotation more complicated in other ways, such as the colossus smash debuff. Rage management even used to be more important since as early as 5.1 when you'd frequently be rage drained and needed to use abilities like shockwave/heroic throw, or just miss a GCD. But that was frustrating, so they've buffed rage generation so you're as worried about capping rage than depleting it.

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            March 12, 2013 11:47 AM

            How were starcraft and war3 simple? If you say that then ALL RTS games are simple.

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              March 12, 2013 11:52 AM

              [deleted]

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                March 12, 2013 12:04 PM

                I can't say cause I didn't play much of SC but I don't like how the SC2 style is closer to the Warcraft style than the more realistic SC, which seems like another Blizzard trend nowadays.

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                March 12, 2013 12:15 PM

                Couldnt tell you as Ive never played sc2. Since CoH made me hate all other rts games.

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                  March 12, 2013 12:34 PM

                  [deleted]

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                    March 12, 2013 12:52 PM

                    I dont know if complex is the right word really. I would say its more strategic. Both games are complex in my opinion, but its all on what you base your definition of complex.

                    SC is complex in the fact of trying to keep an economy going whilst building the correct units to beat your enemy units.

                    COH is complex in trying to keep all your squads in the right place with the right cover against the right units.

                    I feel SC is dumbed down in the fact that you just mass your units and rock paper scissors decides the outcome. (plus a little micro). I might be over simplifying it, but thats how i see it.

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                    March 12, 2013 12:56 PM

                    I'd say SC is more complex. You don't have the same degree of control in CoH. You don't have to do things like spread your units in a split second to avoid a pile of banelings.

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                    March 12, 2013 3:37 PM

                    [deleted]

      • reply
        March 12, 2013 9:33 AM

        WoW should have player housing where guilds could create their neighborhoods in the open world, set up shop etc. Smartest thing Blizzard could have done to reinvigorate community IMO.

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          March 12, 2013 10:12 AM

          player housing is one of the dumbest things in mmo's and im glad blizzard hasnt done it.

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            March 12, 2013 10:16 AM

            [deleted]

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              March 12, 2013 11:24 AM

              I had so much fun with that... although it all began for me when I was robbed when I bought my first house. I worked soo hard for it. One day, I was going back and forth from bank to house, and some dude noticed it and hided waiting for me to come back. He ran into the doorway so I couldn't close the door and then he was able to open a Gateway. 3 dudes ran into my house and murdered me and I sat as a ghost and watched them continuously open gateways and haul out all of my stuff.

              I was so mad that I was going to stop playing the game, until I read about duping. i just duped a shitload of money and was able to raise hell on other people instead. Even though duping was bad/cheating/etc - it helped me get money back and get passed the griefing so that I could play the game for fun and not grind away.

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              March 12, 2013 1:32 PM

              one time we tricked this guy into letting us into his house... he was too trusting. i felt really bad about that and only killed him instead of stealing all of his shit

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            March 12, 2013 10:21 AM

            Excellent argument - I rescind my post.

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              March 12, 2013 10:45 AM

              Because I want to spend my game time going into friends houses? Seriously, it's neat for like a day or two. Then you realize no one cares about your house but you. And you're basically playing virtual doll house.

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                March 12, 2013 10:57 AM

                You make an awful lot of assumptions about other people's play styles. Also, depending on how they implement it, it could be a LOT more than what you described.

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            March 12, 2013 10:43 AM

            [deleted]

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        March 12, 2013 9:33 AM

        sounds like someone who didn't play wow when it came out

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        March 12, 2013 9:41 AM

        But what is? The egyptian pyramids aren't even the same as when you were a kid. Transformers aren't the same. McDonalds isn't the same. American manufacturing isn't the same.

        What type of same-ness are you seeking?

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        March 12, 2013 10:16 AM

        The game was an anomaly. Having a title like that go supernova up underneath you is going to change what you are as a company and how you operate.

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        March 12, 2013 10:20 AM

        The first few years of WoW were pretty fucking fantastic, I don't know what in the fuck you were smoking at the time. Sounds like a lot of crack.

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        March 12, 2013 10:54 AM

        10 million subscribers at its peak would disagree with you.

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          March 12, 2013 10:58 AM

          I thought they hit 13 at their peak? Not that it matters really, since it's still an incredible number. Most MMO's before that were ecstatic with 500k.

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          March 12, 2013 4:15 PM

          I think you need to reread what I said.

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        March 12, 2013 2:03 PM

        I wouldn't say that. Vanilla WoW was very well done. Even the subsequent patches of vanilla wow did fine. Maybe even the first expansion, though by then it was headed the wrong direction already. I really don't know where I'd say they "lost their way" but it was a gradual slow process that did it.

        You can't expect a company to remain the same though. The gaming industry itself has been changing. If Blizzard stayed the same, they would not have made the money they did. You still have to expect them to want to be profitable.

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          March 12, 2013 2:09 PM

          I'd say early TBC was the peak before they really went gung-ho trying to make it an every-man game.

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        March 12, 2013 2:17 PM

        [deleted]

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        March 12, 2013 3:01 PM

        [deleted]

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        March 12, 2013 6:11 PM

        Maybe you just grew up?

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      March 12, 2013 9:21 AM

      I'm definitely not a hardcore WoW fanatic but the whole kung-fu panda thing struck me as a lot more misdirected than Catacalysm.

      • kek legacy 10 years legacy 20 years
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        March 12, 2013 9:27 AM

        I'm pretty sure Kungfu Panda ripped off Warcraft3 there and not that WoW ripped off Kungfu Panda.

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          March 12, 2013 9:31 AM

          But it was one character, this is an entire expansion. High level questing zones, race starting area, max level dungeons and raids all panda'd the fuck out. Its a shame because the game mechanics are great right now.

          • kek legacy 10 years legacy 20 years
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            March 12, 2013 10:16 AM

            I hear what you're saying and obviously opinions can't be wrong. If anything I wish they'd stop trying to draw inspiration from the real world and try to create something truly new. Pandaria has an asian/chinese theme and I'm not a huge fan of the theme, like you I think.

            Take orcs and trolls gnomes for example. These aren't anthropological pandas or wolves or cows, they're unique creatures (and yet still a rip off of decades/centuries of tolkienesque creatures.)

            It seems like every bit of content in WoW has very strong roots in something else, some would say too strong. Make something new!

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            March 12, 2013 10:17 AM

            I felt that way for like, 5-10 minutes. Then I promptly ran out of fucks to give.

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            March 12, 2013 10:22 AM

            Playing DOTA2 has recently reminded me of just how strong Blizzard's art direction used to be up until WoW. It's always been cheesy, yes, but it used to have a real charm that I think was lost as they started adopting the lore to the mechanics. Mechanics should always come first but the skill of the art team lies in hiding that.

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              March 12, 2013 10:57 AM

              I can't wait to recreate war3 scenarios in dota2's map edition. full circle.

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            March 12, 2013 12:58 PM

            The zones and theme are fine, but I couldn't get I I playing a fat panda. He's still lvl 14.

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        March 12, 2013 2:17 PM

        There's no real ripping off going on here. China loves Pandas. China loves Kung Fu. It's not rocket science.

        And MoP as a theme is retarded. I just disagree with the ripoff finger pointing.

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        March 12, 2013 11:14 PM

        To be fair, once you've played the game for a bit you realize the whole "kung-fu panda" thing is very tastefully done. Sure, the cover art screams goofy but the in-game dialogue and quests feel like good old Warcraft.

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      March 12, 2013 9:29 AM

      [deleted]

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        March 12, 2013 9:45 AM

        true dat, yo

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        March 12, 2013 10:22 AM

        [deleted]

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          March 12, 2013 10:54 AM

          Well yeah, but it's fun making these arguments again and again.

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          March 12, 2013 11:14 AM

          I'd like to think that Activision "owns" Blizzard and that they're secretly pulling their strings. Otherwise Blizzard would have to have turned into a bunch of soulless cocksuckers all by themselves.

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          March 12, 2013 12:37 PM

          Vivendi still owns Blizzard. They just bought Activision and created a holding company called Activision-Blizzard so they could combine the names.

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        March 12, 2013 12:55 PM

        Just so you know, Blizzard doesn't give a shit about what ATVI is doing. Everyone likes money, not just noteworthy execs.

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        March 12, 2013 4:20 PM

        Community managers have said Activision almost never interferes at all with Blizzard, the most interactions they have is making presentations about there work for them. Pulling the "corporate takover" card is an easy way to criticize things you don't like.

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        March 12, 2013 7:34 PM

        id software RIP

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        March 12, 2013 11:16 PM

        RIP, the day the videogames died.

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      March 12, 2013 9:30 AM

      MoP is really well done. I know the game is getting old but I genuinely liked the leveling in it.

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        March 12, 2013 9:34 AM

        Yeah, the first two zones I've done have been pretty good. Despite my hate of pandas and fake ass accents. white tigah travel with you for the record the jamaican trolls grated on me as well

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        March 12, 2013 10:44 AM

        Yea. It's really well done.

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        March 12, 2013 11:27 AM

        MoP is a great expansion. If all MMOs got expansions like it we'd all be happy as shit. Sucks people hate on it so much, and on WoW in general.

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        March 12, 2013 11:53 AM

        DON'T MAKE ME PLAY WOW AGAIN

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      March 12, 2013 9:36 AM

      I think it's stupid that they break flying every expansion, and that they did it again.

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      March 12, 2013 9:37 AM

      Flying in the main WoW world did cut out a lot of the cool exploration elements. I like that they forced players to be on the ground in early Wrath zones, and then when flying came into play, the zones were clearly designed around it.

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        March 12, 2013 10:19 AM

        Agreed. Flying is useful and sounded great on paper, but it negatively affects exploration and practically kills impromptu world PvP.

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        March 12, 2013 10:29 AM

        yes, that was really the best combination.

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      March 12, 2013 10:59 AM

      I am enjoying Pandaria but the number of reps to increase at level 90 is absurd (and I haven't even unlocked them all yet)

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      March 12, 2013 11:01 AM

      They lost their way with Cataclysm? ROFL. What naive poor little souls. They lost their way with Burning Crusade, and the major patch before it, ffs.

      Now don't get me wrong I enjoyed BC plenty, but the second they gave paladins and shamans to the opposite faction, the second they implemented cross realm battlegrounds and took out the personal element, the second they added flying, the second they removed 40 man raids and added all sorts of casual catering mechanics, is when the game turned into shit and they lost their way.

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        March 12, 2013 11:03 AM

        Agreed. This game took a then when Blizzard started to cater to the casual crowd. From a business perspective, I cannot say I blame them for doing this though.

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        March 12, 2013 11:28 AM

        Nah, Burning Crusade was the height of WoW's awesomeness.

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          March 12, 2013 12:45 PM

          Go back now and compared to wotlk and mop, bc's fucking terrible.

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            March 12, 2013 12:47 PM

            Leveling through BC is soo bad. They really need to completely redo all the zones like they did for vanilla in cataclysm.

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              March 12, 2013 12:56 PM

              Go I remember starting a Tauren in vanilla and having to run miles and miles in a practically empty Mulgore. I get wanting things to be like people remember, but WoW is unquestionably better now than it was back then.

              The new talent system while being simpler is much better and more versatile than it was.

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          March 12, 2013 11:16 PM

          Agreed. Cataclysm was a step in the right direction; a recovery from the travesty of Wrath of the Lich King.

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        March 12, 2013 11:48 AM

        [deleted]

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        March 12, 2013 11:51 AM

        I'll never agree that the game was better when most of the classes were garbage, all pve revolved around warriors, priests, & mages, and 30 minute or more transit time to raid entrances was normal.

        The quality of life stuff they started adding into the game in TBC (and later WotLK) did a lot to remove the pointless bullshit, allowing people to get into the actual game without a lot of headache.

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          March 12, 2013 11:55 AM

          LOTR would have been a much shorter movie if Frodo had simply queued up for mount doom.

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            March 12, 2013 11:58 AM

            [deleted]

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            March 12, 2013 12:07 PM

            Frodo also didn't have to walk to Mount Doom every single week for a year.

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              March 12, 2013 12:17 PM

              I don't recall the length. But the journey did take a while. It wasn't just something he did while on vacation from work one week

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                March 12, 2013 12:25 PM

                My point is there's nothing gained by making people walk to Blackrock Spire (or any other location) for the 200th time.

                You discovered it -- fantastic! -- that should be enough. Taking 10+ minute flightpaths (or whatever the Kalimdor ones were) and then walking there over and over and over again is simply tedious.

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                  March 12, 2013 12:40 PM

                  Oh I agree totally. But some people who play adventure or role playing games and want to be fully immersed don't.

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                    March 12, 2013 12:45 PM

                    Wouldn't they have a more fundamental problem with killing the exact same dragon every single week for a year? I don't have a masters degree in killing shit, but I think you can only kill something once.

                    Now, if they come up with some BS excuse to get past that, then being able to teleport to dungeons on a whim to kill shit multiple times shouldn't be much more of a leap.

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          March 12, 2013 12:34 PM

          A-fucking-men.

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          March 12, 2013 12:52 PM

          What? You didn't like running out of arrows/shot or feeding your pet to keep it happy? Personally, I loved having to kill pointless mobs so I could fill my bags with soul shards that wouldn't stack.

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            March 12, 2013 1:07 PM

            Oh god, Soul Shards....

            "Hey Lock, SS the Priest."
            "Oh....yeah about that....."

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            March 12, 2013 1:27 PM

            I played a launch druid.

            I absolutely loved falling over dead every time I was in the same zone as a shamen.

            Oh, and being brought to raids just for Mark and to innervate the priests.

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              March 12, 2013 1:28 PM

              ALSO when our DPS spec was the same as our healing spec.

              Druids would melee the mobs for OOC procs just to cast moonfire once. Everything else went to healing until the mob was dead.

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                March 12, 2013 1:44 PM

                lol, Druids were such bitches in Vanilla WoW. You either healed or were laughed at. We actually had a druid in our guild Bear tank Nef right before TBC. Was fun when Druids got called. People just ran around like crazy trying to get aggro from healers until the call wore off.

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                  March 12, 2013 1:46 PM

                  [deleted]

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                    March 12, 2013 1:52 PM

                    Oh, they had their uses, I was talking more generally. I'd argue 90%+ of the time they were healers only (in PvE, obviously.)

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                  March 12, 2013 2:48 PM

                  Sure, right before TBC. That was after they buffed Dire Bear Form from +90% to +320% armor (or w/e it was -- it more than tripled bear form's armor), and probably after the new druid talent trees.

                  Release druids were shit. Cat form damage stopped scaling at level 40. Dire Bear Form gave druids less armor than shields. Call them babies all you want, but your example was after a lot of changes were made to the class.

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                    March 12, 2013 2:53 PM

                    Dire Bear Form: Armor bonus increased from 125% to 360%.

                    >> http://www.wowwiki.com/Patch_1.2.0

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                    March 12, 2013 3:01 PM

                    Ah, I meant they were the bitches, as in everyone used them for one thing, and laughed at them all other times. Trust me, I had a Druid alt once I hit 60 on my Lock (another bitch class at launch), I know they were everyone's healing slaves :(

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              March 12, 2013 2:10 PM

              You guys say this stuff as if balancing and fixing things is the same thing as dumbing the game down. Class balances and such would have happened regardless.

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              March 12, 2013 3:17 PM

              [deleted]

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        March 12, 2013 12:17 PM

        Cater to casuals? TBC had the hardest raid of all time IMO with pre-nerf sunwell. That raid was unbelievably difficult prior to the 3.0 WOTLK patch. It was even more difficult than level 60 naxxramas, which was also hard (the second half anyway)

        I was very satisfied with both TBC and wrath. I really hated Cataclysm though, and MoP didn't do anything for me.

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        March 12, 2013 1:46 PM

        I don't agree with you entirely, but I do agree that pallys and shammys should have stayed unique. That's probably the only major decision that Blizzard ever made that really bothered me.

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      March 12, 2013 11:50 AM

      what are they talking about with the combat changes?

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      March 12, 2013 12:11 PM

      I wish they would re do the graphics of the original races.

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        March 14, 2013 3:19 AM

        This is in the works apparently.

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      March 12, 2013 12:12 PM

      I wish they would re do the original races graphics

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        March 12, 2013 12:17 PM

        I wish male dranei and male bloodelf were both removed from the game

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          March 12, 2013 5:41 PM

          They should replace them with more female Draenei and blood elves.

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        March 12, 2013 12:17 PM

        Yeah some updated char models would be awesome. I bet it's a pain in the ass though

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          March 12, 2013 1:01 PM

          How so? I'd imagine they'd have to give players the opportunity to remake their characters appearance if they didn't like the upgraded model. Just put people back into the character creator for a one time remodel.

          What would be technically difficult about it?

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            March 12, 2013 1:11 PM

            It's a Blizzard community. EVERYTHING would be difficult about it :P

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              March 12, 2013 1:24 PM

              As long as I can still transmog into my space hooker outfit, I'm cool with it.

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            March 12, 2013 2:11 PM

            Oh I was thinking more in terms of armor placement and modeling, how things are designed to look and fit on current models would need to be altered and changed, all that. As I understand things, that would be a significant undertaking.

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              March 12, 2013 3:24 PM

              Yeah, this is what I remember hearing around the time TBC came out.

              If it were as easy as updating the models alone they probably would have done it a long time ago.

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            March 12, 2013 7:39 PM

            [deleted]

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            March 12, 2013 9:48 PM

            For free?

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        March 12, 2013 1:29 PM

        they said they are working on it

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      March 12, 2013 12:43 PM

      I don't really think they've lost their way. I just think the sustainability of WoW (as it has been) is on decline. How many games released in 2004 are still being played by millions daily? Hell, you can evn extend that stat to 2007-08 when the player population got a lot of new players and it is still impressive they get the amount of players that they do.

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      March 12, 2013 2:25 PM

      I've been saying it for years but no one listened to me until Diablo 3 came out

      Blizzard has been shit since Warcraft 3. Who the hell wanted that game? It was like "ok thanks where's SC2 now." All the talented people leaving the company sure didn't help either

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        March 12, 2013 2:28 PM

        also SC2 officially died for me when I heard Kerrigan's voice actor wasn't returning. What the fuck?

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          March 12, 2013 2:44 PM

          You are weird. Tricia Helfer has done a fine job, and the most critical element of a decade-later sequel is not whether they were able or wanted to get all of the voice talent together again.

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            March 12, 2013 3:31 PM

            They were able, they just didn't bother. The voice actor said they basically told her to get lost (this after she'd been in like half their games). It's not the most critical element, obviously, but it's symptomatic of the crap they are willing to spew out these days to make a buck.

            I hate to sound like one of those guys but it's just the way it is

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              March 12, 2013 3:35 PM

              nm I see there's already a Kerrigan thread

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        March 12, 2013 5:40 PM

        I'm pretty sure you're the minuscule minority in this opinion.

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          March 12, 2013 6:04 PM

          I'm ignoring WoW since MMOs barely count as games

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      March 12, 2013 2:25 PM

      [deleted]

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        March 12, 2013 2:26 PM

        Yep. Infobiter or somebody will show up and tell you he can handle those rares at 85 with cata blue gear, but they ARE super tough and I did not expect them when I first started playing. Was a nice change.

        WHAT THE FUCK WHY IS THIS GUY OWNING ...oh

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          March 12, 2013 5:32 PM

          Yah bro they were so hard; you have to like ... move.

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        March 12, 2013 3:19 PM

        One of the things I like about Panda levelling is that raid mechanics are introduced in the world, and teach people how to look for patterns on the ground to avoid shit. Maybe I'm optimistic, but I find that your average pug player is not quite as dumb as they used to be.

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      March 12, 2013 3:12 PM

      When flying was introduced, it added a level of convenience not matched until LFD/LFR came out. It was a true pain in the ass to have to hoof it on your stupid 100% ground mount across the barrens (or take one of the poorly designed flight master rides that took you all over hell's half acre) to get to an instance, and flying made that much better.

      If LFD/LFR were in place before flying mounts were introduced, I'm of the opinion that flying mounts wouldn't be as necessary.

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        March 12, 2013 3:27 PM

        [deleted]

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          March 13, 2013 3:24 PM

          Well said. LFR/LFD really ruined the game. Cross realm BGs added another nail in the coffin. Convenience has a price.

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      March 12, 2013 3:28 PM

      They lost their way with Rock N' Roll Racing TBQH IMO

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        March 12, 2013 3:33 PM

        it's been all downhill since The Lost Vikings.

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      March 12, 2013 4:48 PM

      Wrath of the Lich King was the best overall expansion that WoW will ever have. They will never have another enemy like Arthas.

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      March 12, 2013 4:54 PM

      what the fuck ? how did they lose their way ? cataclysm is without doubt (to me anyways) the best mmo expansion to date.

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      March 12, 2013 4:55 PM

      WoTLK was awesome.

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      March 12, 2013 7:12 PM

      The game was boring in Cata and it's boring now, I don't know how they can possibly say that they've fixed anything. The whole game is easy, tedious, bland, and full of cutesy cliche crap.

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        March 13, 2013 7:03 AM

        says the guy who would only know if he was STILL playing the boring game..

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          March 13, 2013 8:54 AM

          I leveled from level 85 to 87, did some dungeons along the way, and I just wasn't enjoying it and stopped playing. It was so easy that it didn't even feel like a game.

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      March 12, 2013 9:45 PM

      Everything was fine in CATA. The problem for me was, as a tank, I grew extremely tired of explaining CC to every single person I did dungeons with. Dungeons were hard in CATA and we NEEDED the CC to overcome. Explaining who to CC and what to CC all the damn time got too much so I quit. By the time you reached level 80 why the fuck don't you know how to CC with your toon? I did go back for Panda Express and I loved it, but I'm all WoW'd out. Got to lvl 90 and stopped.

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        March 12, 2013 11:12 PM

        Yeah, the dungeons in Cata drove me off since pretty much all I liked to do was tank. They were super annoying in pugs.

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        March 13, 2013 12:25 AM

        [deleted]

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        March 13, 2013 12:46 AM

        I liked the return to CC and difficulty of Cataclysm. WOTLK had turned me off because everything was mindless AOE spamfests.

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        March 13, 2013 1:33 AM

        After a couple of patches though it returned to face-rolling speed runs. 'T was sad to see.

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      March 12, 2013 10:05 PM

      honestly they sold out with War2, it really dumbed down the mechanics of Warcraft and was too casual friendly, it just wasn't the Blizzard I fell in love with as a slightly younger kid. Also bloodlust so OP what a joke

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        March 14, 2013 5:45 PM

        Polymorph those bloodlusters, or ice storm them. They also can't heal, while Pallys can. War2 is the best game Blizz has made.

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      March 12, 2013 11:02 PM

      the biggest mistake with cata was making the game challenging. that is not what the player base wants at all. LFR was the perfect solution to the epic experience with the illusion of danger.

      that, and the last two raids blew.

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        March 13, 2013 8:56 AM

        WoW 1.0 and BC were hard as fuck, but that's when they hooked most of their subscribers. It's only that the game's gotten easier that players have started losing interest.

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      March 14, 2013 5:40 PM

      Warcraft lost its way with World of Warcraft. And War3. Hell, Blizzard were only really great in their early years.

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      March 16, 2013 12:18 PM

      They didn't 'RE-Find' their way with the new expansion either.

      I played WoW since Beta, and they simply changed too much stuff.

      In previous expansions they were adding more and more fun/interesting/cool stuff/abilities/etc.

      Since Cataclysm, they've just been taking more and more stuff away...

      There comes a point where the nerf bat hurts after a while, and just stops being fun.

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