Carmack: Next-gen will still target 30fps

by Andrew Yoon, Dec 18, 2012 4:15pm PST

Related Topics – id software, PlayStation 4, Next Xbox, Orbis

One peek at John Carmack's Twitter feed will convince you that, hey maybe this guy is smarter than you. Lead programmer at id Software, Carmack probably has more insight into future tech than the rest of us. While the next generation of consoles will likely represent a significant jump in computational power, Carmack believes that next-gen games will still target 30 frames per second, much like this generation.

Responding to a fan on Twitter, Carmack said that "I can pretty much guarantee that a lot of next gen games will still target 30 fps," without divulging any more information. This doesn't necessarily mean that next-gen systems will be underpowered. However, it suggests that developers are likely to use their graphical bandwidth on making prettier images.

Should Carmack's prediction come true, PC gamers could maintain their technical advantage over consoles even when the next generation launches. Now, PC games typically feature visual improvements over console counterparts, such as unrestricted framerates.

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By: Shacknews x Show Full Post

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Andrew Yoon posted a new article, Carmack: Next-gen will still target 30fps.

While the next generation of consoles will likely represent a significant jump in computational power, Carmack believes that next-gen games will still target 30 frames per second, much like this generation.

Dec 18, 2012 4:15pm PST

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Andrew Yoon posted a new article, Carmack: Next-gen will still target 30fps.

While the next generation of consoles will likely represent a significant jump in computational power, Carmack believes that next-gen games will still target 30 frames per second, much like this generation. : Shacknews
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  FPS need more then 60fps to not jitter my controls. im gonna get a new console. but controllers for FPS a... : chilln
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    Seriously, microsoft and sony's next consoles should let us connect our usb keyboard and mouse I mean gam... : Elsaispo
  - agreed : landaishan
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  If it's a stable 30, that's fine. : pgharavi
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    yeah, that's fine with me too. it's all about tradeoffs anyway. pc gamers maintain their technical adva... : dantastic
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    Finally we can start to bridge the stigma between hardcore video games and women. I mean if we're all jus... : pixelat3d
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      http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/234/772/71e.jpg : pixelat3d
      
      haha, awesome : frib
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  uh, Bitboys' console will run at 300 fps : DonkeyPopsicle
  - I heard it was 3000 fps. : jimvolk
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  I maintain that the biggest mistake id made with Rage was the time they spent making the game 60fps on a ... : Schnapple
  - If you increase the sensitivity all the way in RAGE on the 360, you can turn around pretty damn quick. : pyide
  - Their stuipd focus on 60fps also meant no 120fps on PC. Between that and the lack of SLI support I was s... : DinK
  - I dont think the massive development period for Rage had anything to do with hitting their 60fps target, ... : disembodied potato
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    It was (in my opinion) marketing and a bad launch (on pc) that killed the game. Bethesda seemed to be... : NoCopy
    - good action shooter with some of the most satisfying controls. : moe6
    - hrm, maybe it was too far middle, cause i can punch through a mediocre shooter without too much trouble b... : kiddygrinder
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  no need for high fps without mouse-based controls : pullmyfinger
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    I wonder if the opposite is actually true. With a stick you need to constantly move in a given direction... : DinK
    - you sir are correct : technotica
- If that is so and its at 1080p res then instead just go with 720p but 60fps. : ant_hillbilly
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  If true, exactly why I will stick with high end PC gaming - I can't stand 30 fps, my eyes need 50-60. : Milleh
  - Yeah really, FUCK that. : Pneum0
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    Because you'll probably want to play all those console exclusives. : disembodied potato
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    yeah, watching movies is hell. : ibrokn
    - Very, very bad comparison. Watching movies is very different than playing games - if you disagree, I sugg... : Milleh
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  Carmack's predictions are becoming as redundant as his game engines. : disembodied potato
  - Pretty much. : HL3dsx
  - ^^^^^^ : doomed
  - Buuuuurn. But I think you might be right. : sebconn
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    100% agree, i don't even listen to him anymore he is completely out of it. : valcan_s
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      Also FYI John, the Wii U N new system runs New Super Mario Bros Wii U at 60FPS @ 720p. Awkward... I am... : valcan_s
      
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      valcan, no matter what games running at 30fps can have more eye candy than games running 60fps. That'... : lord cecil
      
      Yeah, if your'e dealing with constraints then 60fps matters way more in multiplayer than it does in singl... : Serpico74
      
      its also cheaper and easier to make a less graphically impressive 60fps game than a landmark visual feat ... : technotica
      
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      That isn't anything, really. : jake
      
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      For sure it is a freaking joke I am not proud of my Wii U(still it is a launch title so who knows, SMB do... : valcan_s
      
      If the leaks are true, the new gen is going to have a hard time hitting 1080p, nevermind maintaining 60fp... : excite_mike
      
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      Have you checked out the Rayman demo? If not, do so. It's gorgeous, and the Castle Rock level alone is wo... : Conan
      
      Yeah that game looks amazing(it is a Gem Ubisoft have mad skillz) and I swear it run @ 60fps as well, tot... : valcan_s
      
      You're being dense. The argument is not that 60fps is unachievable period. The argument is that 30fps wil... : enyakk
      
      i really wonder about you sometimes. SMB is a technically pretty simplistic game : moshman
      
      he's saying that they would rather punch a shitload of extra polys/effects rather than shoot for 60fps : kiddygrinder
      
      dear valcan, it's super mario bros. : moshman
      
      oh valcan :( this is a silly comment : Sapiens
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      Woah, hold up there son. If you insult Carmack, you're basically insulting god. Heresy! This is one of... : frib
      
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      Gods are only worth worship in as far as they are useful to the human condition. If a god's time has past... : RaptorII
      
      Understood and agreed, I just personally feel he should be treated with reverence because he has had such... : frib
  - I'd look up that word "redundant". And I'd guess that this isn't so much a "prediction" as something res... : FlatlineDixay
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    Do you mean irrelevant? : Nali4Freedom
    - guess I should refresh more than every 15 minutes :( : Nali4Freedom
  - Carmack's derpity derp's derp derpity derp derpers : Halen
  - I used to love fingering his .plan back in the day.... : jimvolk
  - Game Engine != Game. He worked on the engine tech. Rage's downfall was its crap marketing, driver prob... : hyperwired
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  The otonx has a baseline of 100fps http://www.otonx.com/ : 60days
  - HAHAHAHAHA! This is some lulzy shit. I feel like I'm being invited into a kill room in that daily rented : RaptorII
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    lulz: "not on kickstarter because of policy change" If I'm not mistaken, the main "policy change" was ... : verbatim
    - its the this-gen next-gen! : 60days
- does he mention texture loading : Downforce
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  The guy made a game where an expert could reliably predict and blind-fire a kill-shot missile in 3d-space... : yakz
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    He didn't make that game alone. : shirif
    - You sound like Obama. "You didnt build that!" : TickHeadDog
    - Slaves Derek... : Sailor of Fortune
  - +1 : TiTaN10k
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  30 fps, but is that for both eyes? ala 3D @ 30 fps could be 60 fps in 2D, etc. But, I'd settle for 30... : daggot
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    How about 8 eyes (concurrent) total, in 1D. >120 fps? : FurryMoistAvenger
    - http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/71/8_eyes_front.jpg : technotica
    - http://tinyurl.com/2dvjxe : 60days
- Why didn't the shack post an article when I said next gen games will target 30 fps, like they always have... : Lucy Labia
- Carmack said that Doom 3 was targeting 30 FPS; it looked best in 60 FPS. : the archvile
- Hell yeah, everyone needs at least 60 fps. : commanderxp90
- I still have to sigh at of the worry that goes along with console gaming over the dreaded 30FPS. It'd ... : wytefang
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  Targeting 30 fps made sense for consoles that used NTSC and PAL considering those displays only supported... : TheEmissary
  - The only displays doing 120 are the nvidia 3D vision or other 120hz computer monitors. TVs may advertise ... : Conan
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  By: OverloadUT x Show Full Post
  
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  What a silly thing to say. That has nothing to do with the consoles and everything to do with the developer. Current gen consoles can do 60fps, and some games do, but most devs would prefer to eek out every bit of capability at the cost of the lower frame rate.
  
  I personally prefer the 60 at the cost of some fidelity but I bet your average gamer (read: NOT SHACKERS) doesn't notice 30fps as being lacking
  
  Dec 18, 2012 11:46pm PST
  
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  What a silly thing to say. That has nothing to do with the consoles and everything to do with the develop... : OverloadUT
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    Isn't that exactly what Carmack said? : jcupitt
    - Hence Valcan's post being entirely silly-rabbit. : enyakk
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    so basically you're saying that while the next generation of consoles will likely represent a significant... : thecray
    - Precisely. Someone can make a game for Valcan's OMGOMG PC that will only run at 30fps on his rig maxed. ... : kingdepork
  - I think 30fps would be more acceptable among "gamers" if it was an actual 30fps at all times. The trouble... : Vincent Grayson
  - Yeah, it's less about the new console hardware and more about human nature. : Gwyndion
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  Triple digits or fuck off. (OK, I'll begrudginglyaccept less, but it better be 60 minimum.) Carmack hi... : frib
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    Carmack is also targetting 30 fps with doom 4. So yeah... : kingdepork
    - I don't give a shit what they target, as long as it isn't capped at 30 on PC. : frib
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      Doom4 Consoles SP = 30FPS Consoles MP = 60FPS PC = 60FPS and 120FPS optionally : RuskiSnajper
      
      More than likely, the internal calculation rate would still be 30, but the draw rate would be higher. Th... : capt tripps
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  Why do people still listen to this guy? : Saldrin
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    why are people asking this question? He pioneered so many techniques in modern graphics, pushed vendors t... : moshman
    - it's the front page, curb your expectations : Sapiens
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    Oh, I don't know, it's not like he's a highly respected developer who created some of the best games of a... : creeping-death
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      Granted he has very little clout with the industry anymore. He's respected mainly by 30 something gamer ... : kingdepork
      
      I'm guessing you're a gamer rather than a developer? Might wanna stop pulling crap like "30 something gam... : Curike
      
      carmack has major clout in the industry, to this day. He's pretty much setting standards 5 years before a... : italiano3d
  - Probably because he's way way smarter than you. : Halen
  - he pioneered bsp slicing...genius.... : italiano3d
- Well I was going to buy the next consoles, but 30fps I'd retarded sludge fest! Going to stick with my 576... : swolern
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  LOL, consoles. Most of the games won't probably even render at 1080p. : Pulveri
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    LOL you can own more than one platform. : kingdepork
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      LOL most pc games are just console ports nowadays so what does it matter : action figure
      
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      Just LOL. : SlamDunk
      
      hehe : Sapiens
    - Yeah, I know. I have a gaming laptop and a gaming desktop. Playing games on the laptop is a rather shitty... : Pulveri
- Software will dictate where I play. Just like the beginning of the PS3/360 lifecycle, there were a lot of... : freakynipples69
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  I wish they'd move to 24 fps so that games didn't look so much like a soap opera : kaddar0
  - Well played! : lukej1337
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  He posted a clarification: John Carmack ‏@ID_AA_Carmack For the record, just in case it wasn't clea... : jaytima
  - It's kind of hilarious that people are getting butthurt about it in this thread. There is absolutely noth... : jet-poop
  - Hell ya! John is the man! 120fps VR I want!! : swolern
- Of course this is the case, and always will be unless the hardware becomes so powerful that devs can hit ... : Zek
- I'm comfortable with 30 FPS on a console, though I'll admit one of the things I love about the CoD games ... : Entity
- I figured this much because if you look at benchmarks for PC games running at around 1920×1080 with most... : satsun

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