Weekend Confirmed 97 - Nintendo 3DS and Wii U plans, FF13-2, Dustforce

During the discussion about why enemies do not really respond to the deaths of hundreds of their compatriots some one mentioned Halo as one of the offenders. In Halo, one of the reasons the Covenant refer to you as "The Demon" is because you have slaughtered so many of them in the past.

Not related to this show and I'm sure it has been mentioned before but.. Please I'm begging for show 100 to have Brian Leahy as a guest. I know it will probably never happen and I always got the feeling that the departure was so sudden, for the listeners, that there might have been some bad blood going on. Though I hope that wasn't the case. But please it would be awesome, dare I say Totally Rad, to hear from him again.

I feel I have to defend MW3 a bit here. I felt that everyone on the show has the impression that the MW3 weapons are what make or brake you. That the more you level up that the better you will be because you have better weapons/perks. IMO this is false. The biggest factor in making you a good MW3 player (other than your actual controller skills) is learning the maps. Map knowledge is king! If you know the choke points, shortcuts, camping spots, etc. it will give you more advantage than any perk/weapon combo. Of coarse you need to play to your current weapon's strength but with map knowledge you can combine that with the weapons/perks you have to be the ultimate killing machine. As for the guy who had a crappy kill/death ratio until he got the ACR well I bet he knew the maps a lot better by the time he got that gun. And the SCAR L which you get to unlock at level 6 is just as good if not better. The M4A1 which you get right away is no slouch! MW3 can be a tough game for a new person. But I think the learning curve is longer not because of in-balanced weapons. I think it has to due more with learning to understand how the perks and upgrade system work. You'd be surprised how many new people don't know what a "perk" is or does. And last I would just like to inform everyone that every time you prestige you get an unlock token. So if you think the ACR or Stinger or the Assassin perk is what's stopping you from having that awesome kill/death ratio well now you can unlock it so that every time you prestige you have it right away. Yep you get a token every time you prestige.

It's great to hear Andrea again on the show. I just wish that she wouldn't say "literally" every other sentence. She literally says literally when she doesn't need to say literally. :P

Garnett's complaint about the smuggler story is valid, but it's the wrong place to complain about it. If you deconstruct most game stories based on licenses, you'll find similarly formulaic storylines. Even the beloved Knights of the Old Republic had a lame "fan-fiction" vibe once you broke it down. Usually they are rehashings of the character archetypes and conflicts that the IP's universe has already laid down. I believe the reason why gamers are willing to look past these aspects is because they lower their expectations for story quality when they play games.

This is a riff on the thread that ChaosNovaXZ created about the Chocobo song in FFXIII-2.

I was wondering, does anybody else get the sense that the gaming community turns their nose up at rock and metal in videogame soundtracks?

Obviously, music the likes of that Chocobo track deserve to be ridiculed, but when was the last time the gaming community or press held up a videogame soundtrack as brilliant when it was composed of original rock or metal tracks?

Everything from retro-chic chip tunes to upbeat japanese pop, to epic, sweeping orchestral stuff like the Halo soundtrack (or Skyrim) get tons of love, but you rarely hear people begging for great rock or metal compositions in games, or speaking highly of those games that do have them. The closest I've seen to acclaim for rock music in games is Akira Yamaoka's work in Silent Hill.

Are they just harder to pull off? Or is this an after-effect of videogames as a neglected sub-culture, where we feel more 'hip' and 'insider' by gravitating towards more niche music styles regardless of how great some rock tracks are?

Why don't metal and rock compositions in games get love?

Found the discussion about compulsion loops very interesting, because I have been struggling with this for a while now:

I am sick of the never-ending progression in CoD, BF3, Uncharted... It always makes you feel worse at the game when many times it's simply that others have invested more time, since they maybe only play one or two games for a very long time. Of course, their skill also increases, but it's not just that. With all the extremely more powerful weapons, new add-ons, kill-streaks and what not they just crush all the players who cannot invest as much time into unlocking these things.

As a result the starting points in each match are not fair anymore, which makes multiplayer matches in MW3 and BF3 very frustrating very quickly. That's why I prefer Halo (Reach) as my go-to online shooter nowadays, since the unlocks are cosmetic-only. Likewise, in Fifa 12 the winner is decided only by who is better at THE GAME and not by who invested more time into this one title - every match starts off of the same "fair" base.

I enjoyed your discussion on the Wii U.

I'm wondering, where will Nintendo choose to go with the next generation? They've invested money in better graphics, new hardware etc, do you thing they will choose to go after the "hardcore" "AAA title" market? Or do you think they will stay with their "casual" audience?

I think they could do really well in the hardcore market, maybe start with titles like Call of Duty, or develop similar titles, instead of just relying on the standard Mario/Zelda formula.

So, what are your guy's thoughts on the future of Nintendo? Do you thnk they will take the risk of going after the hardcore audience, or play it safe?


PS: Thanks for answering/discussin my question last week. You guys brought up some good points. Unfortunately it really is just becoming the standard, and is a result of the age we're in.

Since we are gearing up for Valentines Day I thought I would ask a relationship-centered question: How does gaming affect you relationship, and how does your relationship affect your game playing?

I am happily married and have an almost two-year-old with my wife. Before we got together, I was married to gaming. Once we started to date, my gaming habits changed completely. I knew that there was a time in my life that I would often choose gaming over having a social life. I started to game mostly at night, which grew even less and later as she moved in and we got married.

I know I could get more time to game than I do now, but I try to make sure that our time together always comes first. This means that I get to spend a lot less time with the hobby that I love, but it has also made me treasure the time I do get to game even more than I did when I spent at least four hours a day playing games. Now I am much more picky with what I play. I find a great deal more reward when I do find the time to beat a game, even though I often feel bad that I have not spent more time with certain games than I have (Skyrim, at the moment).

So, How does gaming affect you relationship, and how does your relationship affect your game playing? Would you ever date a non-gamer and let it change your gaming habits? Have you ever lost a relationship to gaming? What are the most negative and positive aspects of gaming on a relationship?

Hey Garnett, just wanted to thank you for using my comment from last week. I was surprised how dismissive Jeff was of the trends though, so I just wanted to clarify. Sure, he's pointed out how little difference there is between the min/maxing in WOW to casual games like Farmville and Mafia Wars, but to me, that always represented the gameplay limitations in those games, not the ideal. It feels like real gameplay reduced down, and it also pulls back the curtain on too much of the game mechanics.

For example, you've often complained about "thwack thwack" hack and slash in Elder Scrolls, but I still find that fun when I play Zelda. But in that game I know a fight comes down to my knowledge, maneuvering, and predicting movement patterns. In Elder Scrolls it (often) just feels like who can do the most damage the fastest.


Bottom line, I have no interest in defeating an enemy or completing a quest just because I've played long enough to have higher stats. That makes your real objective having higher stats, succeeding through those stats is the reward. In the same way, many players grind COD for better weapons or killstreaks, not to win games.

On SWTOR, let me just put this right up front so it gets noticed. The game has the most amazing CRAFTING system I've ever seen. Its got a perfect balance of investment to reward, as well as gambling-style random drops. That's another part of the game that is missing early on.

As Jeff said, SWTOR definitely does not put its best foot forward. The combat is particularly weak around levels 5-10 I would say, right before you get your specialist class. To those of you struggling with this period in the game, just stick it out and play at least into your upper 20s, the game has a lot of amazing stuff that does not even open up until post level 10, such as getting your ship, getting a variety of companions, getting into crafting, and seeing the MASSIVE variety of questlines in the game.

Contrary to Garnett's point about the stereotypical smuggler story, I think a story-driven MMO like this one necessarily goes into more non-stereotypical storylines than just about any film or novel. It is more like a TV series, driven by the need to constantly invent novel situations. Of course these "novel" situations are limited by the technology/budget available, but still, there is a huge quantity there you won't find anywhere else.

On Garnett's continuing struggle with SWTOR, I think he is completely right about the combat. In MMO combat there is a delay/lack of connection between the button press and the character action. That dulls the usual sense of interactivity we love from our video games. Tabula Rasa was the one MMO that solved this problem, it had incredibly fun, visceral combat, and yet it flopped.

However, I dislike this popular assumption that every RPG needs to be an action game. Final Fantasy XIII does not give the player a direct connection to the action either. RPGs were originally about using tabletop/boardgame type combat mechanics, where the player has a very indirect connection to the actions, and the action is slower. This allows more time to think, and in the case of MMOs, communicate with other players. Like I said in an earlier post, it is also less fatiguing over long play sessions (I think). In tabletop RPGs, boardgames, JRPGs, and even modern RPGs like Dragon Age, a lot of it is always left up to the player's imagination to turn the "combat" into an action scene they can enjoy seeing from the inside. Of course I'm not saying its all up the player to "play correctly" and enjoy the game, but it isn't all on the developer either. Especially not in an RPG.

I don't think splitscreen versus online is a matter of which feature is better. It's a matter of convenience and options.

Twisted Metal is gonna have four-player splitscreen and online so that you'll have the option to play the game whenever you happen to have people over at your house or with friends who are far away. I think the real tragedy is co-op games that don't have splitscreen. If a friend is over and wants to play a game with me I shouldn't have to tell him to go home and fire up his own console and copy of the game (if he even has one).

I just think more games should try to have both online and local multiplayer. Notice that the most popular multiplayer shooters of this generation: Halo, Call of Duty, and Gears, all have splitscreen. Every console Call of Duty game actually has four player splitscreen and I appreciate them for keeping that in.

I'm going to make a series of statement about Final fantasy 13. Followed by a true or false.

Final fantasy 13 had a great battle system. False, it has a good to mediocre battle system that's different. But it is not even the best battle system from the final fantasy series, or even close to the best battle system in a square RPG.

Final fantasy 13 had a original and unique battle system. False, it's a variation of the ogre battle: march of the black queen system. Just rather than giving you a sole role as manager, it places you in the battle as well. So you can neither manage solely or play all the characters decessions properly.

Time, time, time, time!!!! When discussing the purchasing habits of gamers and what price point vs. Sales point would be most optimal. Could you mention at least my biggest factor TIME:) 95% of the games I do not purchase are based on I simply don't have the time to even get into them. Garnett has spoken of this some, but never underestimate that when it factors into the sales desire, time, and price.

On Resistance, I just think that franchise is conceptually a mess.

First of all you have the WW2 1940s time frame, which is what every shooter ever has done.
Second, you have aliens---ok that's what every other shooter has done.
Third, the nature of the aliens is incredibly nebulous, because everyone you're fighting aren't actually extraterrestrials but humans who have been converted by the aliens. So ARE these aliens, or are they zombies?
Fourth, all the different alien types sort of contradict that initial concept. Because if the Chimeria function by infecting other species, then where do the face huggers and all the other ones come from? If the face huggers spread the Chimeran species, logically there should be some non-humanoid base form of the chimera.
Fifth, there ARE face huggers---making this canon both aesthetically derivative of Aliens and gameplay wise Half Life.
Sixth, there is no main character for you to grab on to as an audience member---they went for realism, which is a legitimate alternative to Gears and Halo's style---artistically I think it is preferable, however they didn't develop a personality to Nathan Hale, or anyone else. In Resistance 2 they started giving Nathan Hale super hero attributes, but as soon as that could become interesting they killed him off.
Seventh, there's a constant tension between the game's serious tone, and Insomniac's sort of Pixar cartoonish nature. Garnet noted how the Sony shooters feel incredibly morose compared to Halo and Gears, but the chimera often feel like cartoonish enemies. I mean in R3 there's that Chimera-giant enemy who attacks the town, but I just don't think he's frightening. He animates like this big bumbling clown. He's well animated, but he looks like he should be in a Warner Bros cartoon or something.
Eighth, that second game just wasn't particularly well made. It was bloated, the graphics were plasticy. Even that co-op thing felt more like a proof of concept to me than a real developed game mode.

To speculate, I have to think Insomniac was pressured to make a game that they just weren't suited for, in a set genre that stifled their creative instincts.
Sony's success in the industry has never been about a flagship franchise. They made the Playstation big by disrupting the whole concept of a mascot who is synonymous with a box. Perhaps in desperation to oppose Halo and the 360, they tried to imitate that style of console marketing with Resistance, but it apparently did not pan out.

Man, just went and listened to that Chocobo song from FF XIII-2....sooo bad. I wish rock/metal music would just stay out of games. Except for the awesome metal Zelda covers, of course.

As a life-long fan of (dare I say) "real" metal, any time that hardcore or nu-metal shit rears its head, I want to throw up, especially when it invades another of my favorite mediums. Even more disturbing is that those crap imitations are what people think of when they think "metal" nowadays, which is sad.

Seriously, though, go listen to that Chocobo song, dudes.

Final Fantasy XII and Final Fantasy XIII are really the first FF games that had a battle system I actually enjoyed. In previous FF games, battles were a mundane chore of menu-based party upkeep.

In FFXII and FFXIII, it took a step back and really focused on the strategy and tactics of battle, and let the AI handle all the busy work.

Unfortunately, while FFXII paired the great combat system with a great world and memorable characters, FFXIII had neither, save Lightning.

Furthermore, FFXIII took way to long to actually explain anything about it's world or what's happening. It's fine to throw a ton of made-up words, entities and concepts at the player, but you have to do a better job of explaining why it's important, how it ties together, and how it really impacts the characters on a personal level.

5 hours into FFXIII I was on a quest to save a world I didn't understand or give a shit about.

Great show folks, as always!

With regards to four-player couch games, I wanted to mention the technical hurdles of pulling that off. When I play Mario Kart Wii, it looks noticeably worse when you have two people on a screen, let alone four. Effectively, the single-screen game is 60 fps, but that gets divided in half when you go to two player. I remember the same thing happening with CoD: World at War, Killzone 3 and Resistance 2 when I'd try playing with two people on a screen.

So, I don't know how the engines work, but it seems like there are definitely sacrifices to be made in the game experience when you try to push your console to provide single-player graphics to four-player screens.

I was very happy to hear that Ariel liked Bayonetta (even if commentary on it did get shuffled off to Finishing Moves due to time constraints). I remember a few shows ago she said that she was going to play it, and I thought to myself, "Okay, the things that may disgust her are the introduction scene for Joy, and then the Joy torture attack with the wooden horse." So when Ariel started describing the "one across-the-line moment", I started saying, "Yeah, I think I know what this is; is this about Joy?...Joy torture attack? Yeah! I know that moment!" (laughter for 15 seconds). That was certainly part of why Bayonetta got a CERO D rating in Japan. I remember the first run through the game, when I'd died in the first Joy fight, but then built up enough magic, and said, "Okay, I've had enough of you; it's Torture Attack time!" Then suddenly I see Bayonetta summon a wooden horse and a chain whip, and I think, "Wait, is she going to use that to... yup, she's going there... keep hitting square... okay, that was over the top. Moving on..."

I was bummed at the motorcycle and missile stages getting called "horrible" by Garnett and Ariel. They were a drastic departure from the core fighting mechanic, but they were also homages to Sega classics. The motorcycle part ("Route 666", Chapter 8, Verse 3) is an homage to Out Run (specifically the low-angle 3rd-person motorcycle racing perspective) and After Burner (the music is a remix of the After Burner II theme). I had played almost no Sega games back in the 80's and 90's, but the one that I did play was arcade version of Space Harrier (though not very long; I kept getting hit by shots). The first two verses of Chapter 14 ("Isla Del Sol") are a full-on recreation of the first stage of Space Harrier. I was confused the first time I saw the intro, but as soon as Bayonetta conjured up a headset and said, "Get ready!", I thought, "I know that! That's from Space Harrier! Awesome!". I had to change the controls to normal Y-axis (you can do it for this stage in the settings menu), and you have to dodge enemy shots, but hey, in the original Space Harrier, you couldn't dodge anything or fire magic hair stiletto heel missiles.

Platinum's gradually translating a series of videos with Hideki Kamiya playing through Bayonetta with commentary on production. The latest episode is at http://platinumgames.com/2012/01/23/bayonetta-developer-commentary-part-42/ , and it's a really nice one in Chapter 12 ("The Broken Sky"), with a cinematic and a fight against Jeanne.

To answer Chritian's question about the younger generation having the split-screen experiences like he (and I am guessing most of you) had when he was a kid, I for one definetly have, I'm fifteen and most o my favorite experiences are couch co-op. Halo 3, Reach, Borderlandswere amazing and even split screen competitive multiplayer. 007 From Russia With Love, got it for 8 bucks on the GameCube and my whole family played it non-stop (I am ranked 1st on it) and before I had my 360 I only had a Wii and a GameCube and when my friends came over we always played Red Steel (Does anyone even remember that game besides me?) So yeah Christian Split-Screen isn't dead. Not even close.

Best finishing move ever, Xav

The problem with Final Fantasy XIII was that there was nothing to do outside of the combat system. The combat system was great, but in my opinion that by itself wasn't enough to hold up an 60-hour game. FFXIII just felt too light and too badly paced.

According to this episode XIII-2 seems to have some sidequests and npcs and things to better fill out the world, so I'll give it a fair shot.

I like the discussion on I Am Alive's A.I. and its possibilities.

I really hope with next-gen consoles, developers put more emphasis on artificial intelligence. I feel like there's greater opportunities to have a conceptually interesting game when A.I. is one of the highest factors in design. Just look at the Brothers in Arms series and the success it had early on. It would be more or less irrelevant if that game carried an A.I. system similar to Call of Duty or most shooters on the market.

On the flip side of that, we justly criticize Skyrim for it's combat system because its A.I. is, like most games, standard; it performs all the necessary functions, but at their most basic level. All the enemies just attack you head on. There's no real differentiating in the various types of enemies other than them either attacking you from afar (dragons, bow-casters, mages, etc.) or attacking you up close. And unfortunately, that's probably Skyrim's greatest weakness.

Just coming off the heels of finishing Batman: Arkham City, I can honestly say that that game has the greatest combat system of all time, not only do to the fluidity and overall badassness of the combat, but the A.I. And this is where I feel that Rocksteady's Batman is sort of under-appreciated. For the most part, the A.I. doesn't stand around and wait to be attacked. They'll come at you while you're beating up one of their helpless comrades, they'll pick up a stronger weapon if one is near, and they'll sometimes cower for mercy if they're the last one standing. I mean, it wasn't completely exceptional A.I. but it was a small, yet important piece that is too often overlooked in games.

So the it's a funny thing talking about resistance and the vita. Who cares about resistance when a month after launch MLB the show launches with cross saving aka transfarrring:)

Xav :(

Didn't Jaffe say that there are actually physics built into the cars that you don't see because of the camera angle? And because he thinks of the game as a shooter he doesn't want gamers looking at the tires and what not instead of their opponents? I don't he actually made that the game is "arcadey" argument, or recall him saying anything about acceleration.

Be sure to check out Mutant Mudds! Find it on the 3DS E-Shop!

Mighty Switch Force is great as well!

To answer Chritian's question about the younger generation having the split-screen experiences like he (and I am guessing most of you) had when he was a kid, I for one definetly have, I'm fifteen and most o my favorite experiences are couch co-op. Halo 3, Reach, Borderlandswere amazing and even split screen competitive multiplayer. 007 From Russia With Love, got it for 8 bucks on the GameCube and my whole family played it non-stop (I am ranked 1st on it) and before I had my 360 I only had a Wii and a GameCube and when my friends came over we always played Red Steel (Does anyone even remember that game besides me?) So yeah Christian Split-Screen isn't dead. Not even close.

Just wondering if any of the shackers are still playing Pushmo. If so, how far are you, and are you still digging it?

Not that I'm bragging or anything (well, okay, so I am) but I just solved the last of the bonus puzzles (#252) after well over an hour of head-scratching, and I loved every moment of this game. One of the best games for the 3DS, in my opinion, and it's only 7 bucks to boot!

Oh, I wanted to say in response to Xav's Deus Ex criticism last week, that the patrollers in the police station would presumably be able to recognize none personnel in the police station. Simply because the whole point of their job is to make sure there are no intruders. The whole idea of the persuasion branch is that you get special clearance. I guess its arguably over simplified, but if I remember, I think that police station is on lock down at that point in the game.
But I mean to that point, the objective in the police station is to get access to something in the morgue, and part of the conversation options in the morgue are the trick the guy working down there into believing that you're a sanctioned employee picking up a sample or something. In fact if you hang around too long after you get the sample he will sound the alarm and get all the guards to come after you. So yeah, I mean the game does account for that notion of "awareness" to some extent.

I wonder what application Nintendo could possibly have in mind for Near Field Communication. Do they have an existing franchise featuring a bunch of their popular characters who happen to turn into figurines?

It.....it's Smash Bros, guys.

...cannot be played on this iPhone.

That's what happens when I try to play or download this podcast directly from my phone. Never had this problem with WC before. Anyone else experiencing this? Did something go wrong with this episode?

(also can't play it through the Gamefly app btw)

Epic owns the Gears of War license. I mistakenly said Microsoft did in this episode.

Haven't heard it yet, but let me guess - they talk about how the 3DS is doomed because of iPhone gaming?

Sales-wise, the Wii never surpassed the PS2 as far as I know. So discounting the DS, PS2 is still the top selling console.

The more you know.

I agree with Jeff that the kinds of micro transactions kids are learning about at a young age are kind of dangerous. It's training them at a young age to just buy incomplete products and just line the pockets of companies.

I also agree that Jeff should stop exposing himself to children.