PQ on Pro-Mode

that 'new' game you're talking about is a very nice engine, nothing more.
It lacks the excitement QW/Q2 had... promod tries to bring that back (and they've done quite a good job imo)

One more quick criticism of CPM.

I like the HUD overall but, why in gods name did they change the order of the status bars!? In VQ3 it's ammo + health + armor. In CPM it's health + armor + ammo. You can argue which one is better and makes more sense but, why change it from what people are already used to with vanilla Q3? It's been a while since I've played so I don't remember for sure but I'm guessing this is the way it was in Q1, right? It makes going back and forth between VQ3 and CPM that much more annoying and is one of the little things that can add up to turn even more people off to the mod completely.

To the CPM people (if any of you stumble by): Not EVERYTHING in Q3 is bad the way it is guys. It almost seems like you're changing some of these small details simply for the sake of changing them. If you really want as widespread acceptance as possible, you might think about not changing some of the little things like this that don't really NEED changing.

Personally, I play only two Q3 mods exclusively; instagib anything, and Weapons Factory.

I don't play much c14ss1c h4rdc0r3 DM anymore. boooooring.

I actually like "pro-mode" (even if the name is stupid and only there to stir up controversy). But some of the arguments people use to defend the mod are ridiculous.

"footsteps slow down the game"

Go to SHOD's and download some demos from the CPL events. Get some of an aggressive player like fatil1ty on tourney4, and some with a more defensive player like wombat on tourney2. Playing styles and level design dictate the pace of the game. Footsteps do not. If you see someone walking on tourney4, it will only be for a couple of seconds I assure you. Tourney2 on the other hand has a design that promotes "hit and run" tactics because it has two armors on opposite sides of the map (which is why I personally think that map sucks complete ass).

"most people like pro-mode better"

Is that why so many more people are playing it than vanilla Q3? (rolls eyes)

Honestly, the mod has some very cool things in it and some other things that I could do without. I think both vanilla Q3 AND pro-mode are far from perfect.

For example, I like footsteps. They make me feel more connected the enviornment and add to the immersion factor. On the other hand, I think the sound radius of the footsteps in vanilla Q3 is a little too big (but not nearly as big and loud as Q2 which is why I don't think it's quite as big of a problem as it used to be). I would like pro-mode better if they didn't remove them entirely but rather made them quieter and reduced the sound radius.

Weapon switch times. I think pro-mode went just a little overboard with it. Q3 is way too slow but pro-mode is so fast that it looks kind of silly. A switch time of about 150-200ms would enable you to do the combos and juggling without looking so weird (minor detail I know, but so are most of the things in this entire debate).

I like stackable armor and backpacks.

I don't like spawning with only 100 health because of things like stackable armor and backpacks. They make it easier to get big with armor and ammo AND make it easier to get spawn raped? Yeah, that makes sense. A couple of unlucky spawns right at the beginning of the game can cost you the match that way because your opponent spawned closer to some armor and a good weapon, killed your ass, took your backpack, went and got more armor and more ammo and you spawn with only 100 health again... see a pattern developing here? If you want stackable armor and ammo, keep the 125 health spawns. How many Q1 and Q2 dmoes have you seen between two excellent player with a score like 50 to 2 because of this? Quite a few I bet. 50 - 2 scores are boring, mmkay? Spawning with 125 health gives you a fighting chance to get back into a match like this and makes for closer and more entertaining matches.

I'm still on the fence about the air control. It seems to me that it actually makes it easier for newbies to pull off the tricky moves which seems to go against everything these pro-mode makers stand for.

And thus concludes my rant for the day. Agree with it, disagree with it, stick it up your ass and smoke a cigar, I don't care. :p

Ominous = tard.

'Nuff said.

NesQuick is good, but Ovaltine is nutricious and delicious. *Which to choose*

ok ominous - debate is over
What ca servers do you frequent?
This discussion is going nowhere so i feel a distinct urge to wipe the floor with you in ca.

I am the god of fuck.

Pro-mode will never fly. Vanilla Q3 will always be the most played. The basic easiest version which is the one that comes with the game is what people will play. Plus with all the people bitching you can't expect it to become the standard cause people have gotten used to Vanilla Q3 and won't want to switch. When id said the game was gold it was obvious how Q3 would turn out. I was sure they wouldn't improve player prediction, remove the lag on the lg, speed up weapon switches e.t.c. Its final. And no matter how good your mod is if its not a ground breaking total conversion regular deathmatch will always remain the standard.

"ALL of the popular teamplay maps(dm7, dm6, dm14) have been changed(tmp map pack - see www.teamabuse.com) by the top clans to improve gameplay"

The gameplay for who? The 1337 d00ds or the common player that could give a fuck about weapon placement and would be confused when they d/l a patch that moves the light gun thing and puts a purple plasma thing there insteed?

"EVERYtime I play the mod with someone familiar with ANY Quake they love it. "

I'd rather play RA3, then DM, over 1on1 or wierd DM rules. If i wanted the old LG I'd play QUake. If I wanted backpacks I'd play quake. I want to play Quake 3.

Fook pro-mode.

The best mod for Quake 3 is right here:

http://www.fraglan.com/mods/index.htm

It just simply kicks ass. Especially the Pizza Delivery Mines.

Fucking sweeeeeeeet.

Ominous
you are a spammer
Footsteps really do slow down the game - of course they lend themselves to some tense moments when both players are near death, but I'd rather be carefully running around than having to LITERALLY tip-toe across a map to avoid metal-surface give-aways.
Anyone who has only tried the 1st release of CPM - the version currently in beta is FAR superior. Spent a weekend on lan with it and it has some significant improvements.
For a good run-down of them, check out a|citizen's article here:
http://www.gamepig.com/articles/promode-pg1.html
He writes clearly and concisely, and abuse is one of the toughest teams around.
I agree most people simply have a problem with the name(like I did before I ever tried the mod myself), and the implication that it's a return to Quakeworld.
It's not.
It's better.
First off, turning your graphics down has absolutely NO fucking bearing on the validity of a mod so y'all who keep making that crack oughtta start usin your heads rather sounding like such dumbasses.
CPM is fast and furious, with backpacks, an lg that 'pushes' your victim like the old lg used to, a new armor system that doesn't deplete as you run around and the ability to combine weapons in a fight that is normally impossible due to weapon switch times.
In plain q3 right now matches are 2 players running around grabbing armor. That's what good players do at least. There's no incentive to be aggressive - you MUST run around grabbing the armor. Weapons are strangely inconsequential and that seems backwards to me.
The machinegun in 1 on 1 is the deadliest weapon in the game at mid-long range.
That's WRONG.
I don't care what id thinks.
That IS fucked-up.
I don't think cpm is out for world-domination as Pappy suggests.
I think it's MORE FUN. Would anyone really care so much if the mod was called something else besides "PRO-anything"?
I understand how that makes some players feel, but it really has nothing to do with being part of the elite, except for the fact that there's MORE TO LEARN.
To me New jumps, more air-control and faster weapon combos seem to BROADEN the palette of Quake moves, rather than provide some "throw-back" to 'the good ole days' as Pappy suggests.
Why are really great and casual players alike getting bored of q3 so quickly? Because they can't learn it?
Bullshit.
Ominous you spout the same rhetoric Pappy does.
Personally I don't care about convincing you that cpm is the way to go.
EVERYtime I play the mod with someone familiar with ANY Quake they love it.
Then I read all this shit on msg boards condemning it like it's some pagan religion or something.
In short, Pappy's article sucks.
His opinion of the mod misses and DIS-misses so many important factors that to people who have actually TRIED cpm, it appears as if Pappy NEVER PLAYED IT. I think that explains the afore-mentioned assumption that he's a 'newbie' - newbies don't always notice the nuances to the game until they've played for a while.
I'm done.

"Pro-Mode" (again)

Hmm... it worked...

...people are talking about it.

Pro mode's interesting because anything that adds color to the pasty, genuflecting, yes ma'aming, training wheeled, hat tipping, scout's honoring, SAT-prepping, fingernail trimming, douching Pinesol Bounty Charmin floral pump soap dispenser basket weaving Wonder Bread loaf of vanilla Q3 is welcome. Not that Q3 needs any improving, mind you. ;)

Still unless you plan to turn pro, it's Classic Quake Arena that really looks cool. Quakeworld physics, Q1 maps. Bring it on!

By the way, who the hell are all of you "That is not Quake 3" zealots? Who says Id software should be the one and only standard for competitive gaming? Competitive gaming should occur on whatever format is the most popular for informal competitions (aka online ladders, etc). Is Quake 3 1on1 the most popular game going right now? HELL NO! Most people think it's boring as hell. The various team mods out there have always drawn the biggest crowds, which is why (I believe) the CPL is making a team event (even if it IS for the relatively unpopular Q3TDM).

P.S. Don't get me wrong. I like 1on1 play and I like watching it... I'm just saying most people don't play it.

The idea for "Pro Mode" is great, but the name is not. Period! Just make it a mod, people, and THEN see if people adopt it for competitive play. You can't and shouldn't force a playing style upon other people unless you are Id software.

QuakeWorld rules!!!

Later.

Ominous....I think part of the problem we have here is that you and the supporters/makers of the pro mod is a difference in how you define skill....skill is a relative thing in definition and I think this is why these battles can never be won...you for example said that RA was a great measure of skill...someone like myself might believe otherwise and see RA as something we're not interested in (although after I started playing a little RA here and there I found it to be fun...it just isn't my game personally). Someone who loves Q3F, or CS or something would disagree with all us DM'ers. I think the biggest danger people worry about is that this might 'split up the community,' but this already happened...we have those who prefer QuakeX Y or Z, we have those who play UT, or one of the various HL mods, or even a mod for Q3 itself...we are the FPS community more than we are the Quake community and in the case of deathmatch the very different views of what deathmatch should be have produced various different camps with different schools of thought. I like Q3...I don't like everything about it (125 health respawns, 5 sec weap respawns in 1v1, the armor tickdown, and the fact that the BFG could have been a excellent focal point in Team games (ala the RL in QW) thus offering two differing flavors of TeamDM that would appeal to different crowd just based on the presence of one weapon (if the BFG we're weaker but still a powerful weapon)). I don't care if we have a VQ3 group and a CPM group of players and I'd actually like it if the CPL had two leagues playing both...hell imagine if you had a player who won both the CPL Q3 and CPL CPM tournaments. Personally I think what Q3 really needs on the competitive level is more maps...there some really damn good maps out there and I think this would be better overall (Q3jDM8 and ZTNDM2 are two excellent maps that spring to mind).

And thats the whole point behind this whole issue! There are a LOT of people out there that used to play Q1, Q2, or just one of them, bought Q3, played it, and got really bored of it, because it simply isn't as great of a game as Q1 and Q2 where. So many great players are now not playing simply because of Quake 3 gets old fast, real fast. Even people that are playing Quake 3 competitivly are only doing so because its the game to play, and there is some potential to make money at it. However it doesn't mean that Quake 3 is a great game, it just isnt.

Hoony has replied to that editorial. Check it out at http://www.challenge-world.com/

#55: It's CHALLENGE Pro Mode damnit! Big difference.

Amazingly, nearly half the people that have responded missed the point that Pappy-R played the ProMode mod. He also points to an article that is *for* ProMode. Personally, I think that taking out the stuff that makes it fast-n-furious makes it less competitive. What's really needed is better and bigger maps. Not ripping out a bunch of code that makes Q3... Q3!

If you want QuakeWorld, then play QuakeWorld. If all Q3 is to you is a new engine with pretty graphics, then why would you care? Hell, id should just go back and make everything vector graphics. Skip the freakin' texture maps, dynamic lights, curved surfaces, etc... Gimme my Q3 on a Vectrex dammit!

When you've all calmed down from this heated debate, play some T.E.C. for the fun of it...

DK_911
Team T.E.C.
http://www.planetquake.com/tec

i think they created a lot of confusion by shortening the name. if they had left it as "proboscus mode," i think they could have avoided all this hooplah and bally-hoo.

Worthless artice. Reads like the person never even tried the mod.

The usual "they're trying to bring back QW" bullshit.

I think its good that this article has made it to the Shack, although I really think it needs more exposure Steve. These arguments have been going on for months now on the challenge network sites, but what has been lacking is a "non pro" view on the matter. Just yesterday there was a huge argument over at challenge-world.com about this article. Interesting thing to be aware of if you play this game for competition, and i'm not just talking about "pro" competition, but anyone that is active playing in leagues, tournaments, etc, should be paying attention to that is going on.

The idea of Pro Mode has the potential to become extremelly popular. What is affecting is raise in popularity, is the constant bickering by both parties (the pro Pro Mode, and the regular Q3 lovers), the actual name of the thing, and the the vibe that somehow, if you don't play this Mod, you are a damn newbie. BDW #9, you don't know Pappy, he's no newbie, trust me.

Lets face it, coming from someone that has played both Q1 and Q2 since the start (also played Doom), Quake 3 is a good game, but when it comes to any sort of competitive gaming, its just "not there". I'm not saying that Pro Mode is the anwser, but Q3 was made for newbies. It was made for people to just install play and have fun. But it wasn't made to address the competitive needs of a lot of people in this community. If id would have have made the game for "us", we wouldn't be having this debate. Give Pro Mode a try before you bash it, I have and I happen to like it, but I also like Q3 for what it is.

.ki.OoGly
http://www.killerinstincts.com/

Boooooooooring!


/me writes a novel

Ok!
I'll look for it.

Very poorly written article... when you consider that Pappy-R is a freaking newbie, you could see how he fails to understand where there is any benefit to the Pro-Mode mod. Most people like myself have stopped playing with the mod, because it has the potential to mess up the default-Q3A skills, and of course, that it is not a standard of gameplay style. But when you get stupid retard articles like this, where the author only mentions similarities to Quakeworld, and fails to notice the tremendous and overwhelming similarity to Quake2 physics, you can just tell he lacks the skill to even evaluate such a mod. As long as people treat this as an "enjoyable mod" instead of a gameplay replacement, everyone is happy from all sides. I don't think the mod will ever take off in competition, but it is certainly enjoyable if treated as the "MOD" that it is afterall.

--Valiance--

Well, I do agree with the idea of not changing the gameplay for a competition. If these "pro" players are playing a drastically altered Quake III, then as far as I'm concerned, they're just not playing Quake III.

[Get good at a new game!]

get some! yeah!