Weekend Confirmed 88 - Skyrim, Holiday leftovers

A question for the show.

Why arn't racing and sports games seriously considered for GOTY? Every year it seems like RPGs, action adventure games and first person shooters dominate the games critics are seriously considering.
Who is to say that Forza 4 isn't better value for money then Gears 3 or Skyward Sword. Maybe F1 2011 or NBA 2K12 is a more technically perfect game then Skyrim or Batman Arkham City.

I know that not everyone is supposed to agree on GOTY, but I respect all nominations and can recognise a great winning RPG. But can't RPG fans recognise a great racing sim that might have been a better package?

(Of course I know everyone can have their own personal GOTY, I am just talking about publications/sites etc universally deciding a GOTY)

Thanks :D

Garnett, do you think you could manage some MP discussion around BF3? So many good experiences happening in this game for a lot of people and you guys to date have only discussed it's weakest part. The Single player...

Jeff talked about serious discussion around GOTY and the games that should be played leading up to that. I hope that doesn't just extend to the single player titles.

Hey guys,

I had a quick request from all of you. On one of the last 1UP your shows hosted by Garnett, there was about an half an hour session where everyone talked about their "holiday gaming" memories as a child. Seriously, that segment took me back to 12 years old anxiously waiting to get my hands on a Playstation 1. Since there is a totally new crew, could you guys redo that segment this year? I would love to hear what Garnett, Jeff, Xav, and special guest has to say about their holiday gaming memories as a kid. Thanks alot and keep up the great work!

Josh Longyear

Live Friends List:

maybe I'm just ant-social but it seems like the whole I need a bigger list is unique to people in the Games Enthusiast field. Many have a huge social circle of others in the industry that are all usually playing the same thing. They get the best online experience that not everyone gets to experience.

First of all I would like to say I also miss the music break, I thought it rounded out the show quite well and really enjoyed it when it was one of Del Rio's hilarious mixes (HES DRAWING A MAPLE LEAF!) or some game related music. As far as what I want to hear about over December, we have had a lot of huge releases and more to come but in this short lull how about some indie and downloadable titles? For xmas I asked for PSN and live gift cards because I love those games so much and am addicted to steam. Could talk about new games that have come out or things like Cave Story that just got released on Steam for cash, is it worth it if it was already free?

More indie, more DL and more music break, thats all I have to say... along with use submitted Skyrim stories, that shiz is addtictive.

Random note on skyrim Combat: Anyone else think the game could really be improved with a better combat system? I don't know if its just me, but i find it incredibly hard to ever take anything seriously in the game when the it looks clearly looks like robots cycling through animations until someone dies. When I watch a fight or even participate in one it just feels and looks dumb to me. As much as leveling up helps me stay motivated to do quests and stuff I feel like for a real time game it relies to heavily on stats for a real time game. If I have real time control of my character during the battle there is a certain expectation that goes along with that. While I think the stats should help inform my abilities or w/e I would love to have combat that is kind of based on my own mastery of the controls. For example Jeff mentioned he loves the lock picking and being able to unlock tough locks regardless of his character skill level if he himself is good enough to pick the lock, now if this was applied in combat situation for example I would be able to take down those giants regardless of my level as long as I had a true grasp of the combat. Moving and timing hits in a way where I really decided if I won or lost would personally help me get more into character. As it stands now if I were under leveled and walked up to a tough badie I would have to trick the terrible AI into getting stuck in a wall or something and slowly dwindle him down in a very unsatisfying fashion. Now I'm aware the game sucks players in in other areas but I don't see how fixing those games games would help in taking the player out of being immersed. I would think better animation and combat would only help to immerse them further.

Good timing that you're planing to talk about Skyrim combat next show. I had a chance to play a few hours at a friend's the past week and mostly did combat and looking at items on shelves. And while the world seems very interesting, I did not really enjoy the combat.

Afterwards it came to me what was wrong with it: It's not Dark Souls. Objectively the combat in Skyrim is not bad, but Dark Souls did the sword/shield/magic system so much better, that Skyrim's didn't feel good. Maybe in 6 month from now I wouldn't really notice this as much, but after having played a lot of Dark Souls so recently, I couldn't really get past it.

Do you think that some games suffer from other games having perfected a system and therefore just not feeling right in comparison? LBP and Mario come to mind or for me console shooters and having played years of mouse/keyboard shooters on PC.

Anyone else disappointed by most gaming these days critics? I have never seen so many big name titles get away with murder. I found it to be insane that LA Noire releases and little to no attention is given to its inability to function as a game and a tight narrative(pretty much impossible to fail just dragging the player along for the ride) and instead of even mentioning these issues its just completely left out by the guys who are supposed to really critique the game. I understand its good to give a game a pat on the back for having good intentions but every game is intended to be good so take it for what actually is not what it aspires to be. Game like Skyrim can get past with so many technical flaws its insane to me... while other lesser known games would get bashed for their lack of polish. Can we get some consistency here? Can we get some real critiquing going on? I feel like the people who review games as their job are no more qualified to do it than any regular gamer sitting on his couch maybe even less.

I agreed with absolutely everything Andrea said on this week's show (which is unusual, but quite awesome now!)...up until the end. Being a female has nothing to do with "nasty things being said to you" on Xbox Live. Anyone and everyone can be (and quite often is) insulted, stalked, whatever over that service.

So I played some Skyrim a couple of things. The setting is great amazing to look at but all the talk of if you can see it you can go there is very overrated. Just cause you can go there doesn't make it fun or even worth the trip, because of the setting the world is very empty... As it should be, but I just wish there was more of a purpose to traveling some how.

More important in these games you make so many choice that effect the world later. The only way to do this is direct conversation with NPC. Wouldn't it be nice to set up a under laying motivation for your character from the beginning. My best example is I'm a elf I want to be nice to humans, but only til I gain the power to destroy them. Unfortunately I can only be nice then the other elves hate me come on man I'm only playing those humans for suckers;)

The game is very good:) just like I said weeks before the game is great with user imagination. Most of the games quality is in the vague and emptiness of it's world:)

On Leftovers, I think a few mobile games deserve to be mentioned in certain categories.

Swordbrothers: Sword & Sworcery came out this year. So did one of my other iOS favorites, Groove Coaster. The former to me feels like the iOS killer app.

Andrea is correct. Xbox Live is not a social network. Xbox Live is like a basketball court. It is a place you go to play a game. It is not a place you go to meet new people. Your bring the friends you met from somewhere else with you to play. The over 100 friends limit seems a game journalist problem.

I do think Microsoft should take the beacon option beyond your friend's list. They have a calendar feature on Xbox that shows you what game with fame dates. I think that should be opened up to users so we could set dates for games. Then anyone can look at the calendar and filter through for games.

I'd like to chime in on the whole story/narrative subject.

I feel like Skyrim's story telling is hit and miss. Sometimes when characters are standing, on the spot, spewing forth monologues and exposition it's awkward and boring and long winded. It's just a bit clumsy and bulky and I don't think stationary talking people is really a strong way to deliver story. And some of the script is a bit silly or ridiculous.

Games with focused cutscenes do a lot better job at conveying powerful story and narrative.

However, where Skyrim really shines and rises to a place that linear style video game stories cannot tread is in the world, the ambience and the atmosphere.

For example. During the beginning of my play through I was sitting in a tavern talking to the barkeep and buying some wine when in the background I could hear the bard singing about the civil war and I overheard some people talking about how the Empire has outlawed the worship of one of the chief Nord gods. Despite the fact that the first Jarl I met cast a favorable light on the Empire this made me wonder which side had the best interests of the Nords in mind. Later when I met Ulfric Stormcloak and overheard his passionate speech to his general I glimpsed his real passion to win the Nords their freedom. The very next city I came to greeted me with the spectacle of a public Stormcloak beheading which cemented my stance on the war. After the crowd dispersed I snuck up to the executed prisoner and searched his body and discovered a religious amulet outlawed by the Empire. I took it and wore it in his honor. Some time later I was wandering the wilderness and came across a group of Imperial soldiers escorting a bound Stormcloak prisoner. At this point I had chosen my side. I freed the prisoner and slew his captors and began my career with the rebellion.

Now, no one made this series of events occur in that order. They happened dynamically. And I'm sure someone else could play the game and have a completely different experience entirely that doesn't even slightly resemble mine. Because of the place I chose to go and the things that occurred both randomly and scripted, I had a story experience that was unique to me. If I had chosen to keep walking and not stop at that tavern who knows how different my experience may have been.

Skyrim's strength lies in its setting and world. As you wander the ruins you get hints of the cultures and history and setting. You might read a book that gives you insight to a misunderstood race or a conversation you overhear may lead you to a point in the map that others may never visit. While a game like Assassin's Creed may deliver a much more dramatic and fine tuned story that hits very deliberate beats, the world of Skyrim is infinitely more dynamic.

AC is like a rope, it has a beginning and an end and you know where you are along that experience. It's clear and powerful and effective. It has a deliberate beginning, middle and an end and it hits certain beats and twists in the proper order. The world of Skyrim however is more like a tapestry. There's no clear line. It's full of little threads dangling in front of you that are entirely optional and dynamic. You chose which threads you want to follow or ignore and find out where they lead you to. Do you pick up that book and read it? Do you sit and listen to the bard's song? Do you stop to investigate that abandoned fort or move on? Do you choose to get involved in the civil war or ignore it entirely? The setting of the world adds context to the encounters and characters and environments and they in turn feed back into the setting. As you experience the world dynamically, you chose how you respond to what you see, where you go, what you do next and you take those individual threads and weave your own unique experience.

I must say jeff is absolutely right if skyward sword isn't on your game of the year list then you've got something wrong with that list. It's so damn good and the most original game in years. It's essentially Mario 64, oh 3D games don't work look at this, oh motion games don't work look at this!

It makes me excited to see what Sony may try with the move and say kratos. And pretty much any other game involving melee combat like maybe Skyrim;)

Skyrim complaint - is anyone else super irked that some quests are for all extensive purposes, unfailable? Without giving any spoilers, a few quests now have come about, main and miscellaneous, where the quest giver wants me to kill another individual or creature, and I, as a hero character, don't think the killing of said individual is justified. There is no option to say "Hey fuck you guys, that's a dick thing to do.", fail the quest, and end that giver's quest line. I'm just forced to have that quest I won't ever finish clutter up my log with no way to delete it, and I find that quite stupid. Murdering the quest giver in cold blood, I suppose, might fix it, but that would defeat the whole purpose of my complaint! :P

This is a random question, but - does anyone else wish the default movement speed (stick fully forward) in games was always walking? Perhaps it has something to do with the fact I enjoy role-playing within my games, doing as I would do in that world or situation. I find jogging through Skyrim, for example, to not be as enjoyable as strolling through the countryside, and awkwardly holding the stick at a strange middle position is quite uncomfortable. I'd just prefer something slightly faster than the over-encumbered speed. :/

For music breaks you should just play the Battletoads pause music.

I don't think I've ever heard Garnett talk about broadband coverage or retail prices without giving Australia a shout-out. Just letting you know that we appreciate it.

I'm all for a 'Skyrim Stories' segment for the next few weeks. I'd rather hear stories of old witches in the woods (spoiler: that's what she was, Garnett) than about MILITARY SHOOTER #2332134R43 (which I suffered through over the past several weeks).

I personally find those kind of 'moment to moment' unique experiences with games far more interesting than what others may think is 'substantive' discussion, which often is really just beard-stroking bullshit.

The den defense is triggered by a "Templar Awareness" meter, it is NOT new, it is a progression of the Noteriety meter that was used in AC2 and Brotherhood.
Before it just meant guards were looking for you when it was full.

I read Xav's review for Assassin's Creed Revelations, and argee with most of what he had to say. As a huge fan of the franchise, I think this entry felt rushed and a little disjointed, but the core gameplay systems in place and the simple pleasures of traversing through beautiful, historical locales makes up for the frustrations.

I did find it interesting that Xav felt that the tower defense element took Ezio, and the player, out of the role of master assassin and into supervisor.

While I didn't particularly enjoy the Den defense stuff (although I didn't have enough trouble with it to hate it either) I thought that the CONCEPT of that, as well as the concept of the Master Assassin training missions, actually made a lot of sense.

Ezio is getting old - he's one of the few playable protagonists past their 50s, and it makes sense that as his stature increases but his body starts weakening, he would take on a role that was more about shaping the future and overseeing operations. So I liked the concept of taking an older character there, though I didn't particularly care for the method.

And when the character Yusif jokingly asks Ezio 'When were YOU ever young?' I'm sure every gamer thought 'Hey! I've been doing this since I was a teenager!'... and then realized how far they'd gone and how much they'd been through with Ezio.

Indeed, the theme of maturing, growing past one's initial, personal motivations and seeking something greater echoes across all three of the protagonists stories in the game (including Desmond's emo home movies), and it's an interesting Jungian idea that isn't often explored in games because it fits more within the context of a mid-life crisis or late-life fatalism.

Alright I've seen the post at least a few times here, and if you want to keep telling Skyrim stories 2 things. First spoilers don't worry or try and talk around them just tell your story. It sounds stupid you pausing every so often saying ummmm let me think how not to spoil this story I just told for the last 5 minutes.

2 don't play the game the way you'd normally play the game. Break it, cause havoc, make the game bug out. If you just play it normal there's nothing unique or fun about your story. Yes the giant killed you... You know why cause when you walk up to a giant that's what they do!!!

Stories are fine but they have to be unique, not on this quest you fight a spider that's really big.

Jeff, made a comment about Magika being patched, and all the problems have been fixed. I don't play PC games, but I think there should be more coverage like this. X game is a great game with problems that have been fixed. Often the coverage of games never get beyond the "its broken" stage. There is hardly ever a post saying this game has been fixed it is safe to play it now.

Awesome show, again!
Thanks for the shout out, that was a humbling surprise.
Hope you guys had a great thanksgiving.
Jealous we don't get a holiday like that over here.
Even more jealous we don't have a 'black friday' style day of deals.
All the best, Cheers.

Just to let you guys know in Skyrim:

People who just join you one off on a quest as a companion can die, some don't (as per the companions quest) but some can just from the bad guys (as per the guy who wants to go with you to explore a cave with a grove in it).

People you pay to have join you or who you can just ask to join you (wife/house servant) not as part of a quest but to just travel together cannot die and go to one knee from bad guys, but you can kill them so watch out for friendly fire especaaily later spells that have wider blast radious.

that's it.

LOL Garnett, Spec Ops survival mode is a shell of the experience that Horde Mode 2.0 provides.

With a radar that highlights enemies, ammo stations that can be accessed at any time for refills, weapon upgrades, very basic enemy AI that does little more than run straight at you from their spawn point, and only a few enemy types that require actual teamwork (and even those are easily dealt with using areal strikes), it comes off as little more than target practice.

Compared to the tactical options available to players through the deployable bases and defenses in Gears of War 3, the number of enemies and enemy combinations that require sustained fire from several people, power weapons that need to be used sparingly instead of repeatedly bought whenever they're needed, I could go on and on.

As for the competitive multiplayer, it has a fairly large dedicated fanbase. Gears of War 2 killed a lot of the support the game had from more mainstream gamers, cause the multiplayer was functionally broken for months and months.

At the beginning of this year, I couldn't have cared less about Gears of War 3. Thanks to Horde Mode 2.0 and the fine-tuned multiplayer, it's my number contender for Game of the Year.

Hey Garnett,

sorry to shatter your illusions but ... that sweet little old lady you found in the forest of Skyrim ... Not quite what you thout she may have been. I met the same old lady and I found a hidden compartment that led to a basement filled with alchemy desks, human flesh and poisons. There was a letter there that was talking about her coven. When I exited and talked to her she screamed at me "no one can know my secret" and tried to kill me with magic.

The more you know.

Also, props for not reloading saves. I am playing the exact same way. I only have a single save file. It really adds weight to my decisions and makes me think hard about my actions and choices. The experiences has been so much more richer without having God-like powers that allow me to rewind time and change my future in a way that ultimately cheapens the experience.

Lastly, congrats on the trans-continental sexual innuendo. When Andrea asked if you "looted her cavern" you said you "may have rooted around in her stuff" which was priceless because in Australia 'root' is slang for sex, it's about as coarse as fuck or screw. So thanks for the extra laugh, it was epic because you didn't realize how dirty it sounded to us downunder.

Thanks for the show guys

Great show here's some random topics for episodes during the slow release month:

-Discussion about under the radar niche games that you usually ignore like King of Fighters 13, XIII:lost identity(or any of the new adventure games that are released on steam), or Way of the Samurai 3 ( it's short and would make some fun a discussion).

-how publishers can raise consumer awareness to a game post-release L.A. noire was recently released in a complete edition for PC and consoles that contain all the DLC and pre-order content this sold me on the game but I think it's still lost despite being a pretty good deal on amazon.

-brainstorming for developers, successful developers these days tend to stick to a formula but what if they break out of their formulas and unleash a product few could believe they where capable of? like bioware making a Mass-Effect spin off that's a rad stealth game/RPG or Volition creating an action game with uncharted level writing and their assortment of creative weapons and dynamic environments (and one that takes place on multiple planets).

-Shenmue was released in December over ten years ago, maybe it's time to revisit that game, or any other old favorite, preferably a game you like yet many dislike.

I struggle to come up with names for characters too. I wanted to play Skyrim as a Nord warrior so I thought the best thing to do would be to look up names from Viking mythology. Nothing really jumped out, so I looked at Old Norse names. From there I found the name "Vermundr" which means "protector of man" - Badass.

Did I hear Xav has a Fire now? If so how do you like it? I'm curious to where it can go since it sounds like it does what most people want out of an IPad (Web, movies, small games, etc.), but is about half the cost.

Let's get some Rayman Origins conversation on the show. It's like the game didn't even come out. A great platformer and I'd think an interesting talking point as a huge $60 2D platformer that doesn't have Mario in it.

Jeff: Feel free to talk about wrestling on the show any time you can fit it in. :D

Just a reminder:

Cave Story is now on steam. You no longer have any excuses. :P

I'm so confused
It's wednesday and there's a new show?

I'll take it

Yay new 4G phone! I can listen to this at work actually on Friday now. 3G phone was too slow to get it before I could just sync it to my ipod at home. :P