The Deathmatch Decline

Silence all of you.
Fucking trolls :)



Dopeman

Maybe if id Software could make a DM game that was worth a shit, the deathmatch wouldn't be in a decline?

Blame this on Belzebutt. I'm so fucking sick of seeing him in UT threads that I'm bumping my trolling up a notch.

Deathmatch is DEAD.

Unless...

Someone reinvents it.

Some Matrix style shit where people are running up walls, environments where tons of shit is breakable and plays into the DM playability, etc...

Cliff

TFC 1.5 TODAY BABY YEAH

Well I have a bit to say about stuff and things...I've been DM'ing since DOOM1 and I personally love DM...I was weened on it and it just suits me in it simple infinite replayability (you can always get better in theory). I consider DOOM2 to be the pinacle of DM (had to mention that) and I loved Q1, Q2, Q3 and I even enjoyed UT (though Q3 I like a little more). Personally I've never grown tired of FFA...it doesn't get boring to me one bit ever...but this may be the fact that I have ADHD or that I'm obsessive compulsive....I don't know; but I do know that DM is a different game from these "TeamPlay" games (most proponents of these disregard TeamDM as not a part of their movement and I feel that this is overlooking the fact that teamplayDM can be quite strategic as can 1v1...1v1 is like a tennis or boxing match, FFA is like a good race, and TeamDM is....well.....I have trouble finding an analogy). These new teamplay games are great, but my biggest problem with most of them is the perception that you have to sacrifice speed, action and intense basic gameplay in order to favor teamplay and strategy....most of these games seem to favor realism in a big way (CS is the perfect example) and realism often contradicts with exciting gameplay....sadly it seems that most of what SAS mentioned seemed to be games that slowed things down in favor of realism and 'teamplay.' I liked Q3F because it kept some of the speed of its core game...what I'd like to see would be games that emphasize strategy (or even better yet set up open ended systems or the ability to buy weapons and vehicles and such a way to immerse you in the game world) without sacrificing the speed, intensity, and bloodlust of a good deathmatch. When I heard of some of the action quake 'features' in TF2 I cringed...the ability to control your own fate, to have things decided on a small scale by skill rather than arbitrary limitations or experience points is important IMO. Realism has its place, don't get me wrong, but so does action and blood....so does the deathmatch. And complexity does not necessarily mean superiority or an emphasis on strategy...the greatest and oldest strategy game we have is turn based and probably the least concerned with realism....its quite simple; yet its the one that survived the millenia because of the underlying complexity. There is strategy in everything, it must only be uncovered.

Al Pacino was arguing with Dustin Hoffman about the merits of various FPS computer games.
"The Counterstrike modification for Half-Life is the best goddamn piece of software I have seen in a long time", said Al Pacino.
"Definitely Quake 3 Arena, definitely", replied Dustin Hoffman.
"Bullshit! That's nothing but a bunch of 12-year old pansies doing 20-foot cartwheels via self-inflicted rocket rounds. Pull a stunt like that in Counterstrike and everyone within 30 yards would be in a world of shit!"
"Gold tin. Has to be gold tin collector's edition."
"Hoooowaaaahhhh", Al Pacino concurred.

well, Quake1 DM is just about dead, I was feeling nostalgic and fired up Quakeworld only to get spanked around by some tard using a speed cheat hack client...*sigh*...I'd forgotten about all the cheaters that came out after the source code was released....

In my last post 115, some people were saying that CTF was worse than DM if you got a bad team. True. Nothing much to say about it.

However, there is no sence of "I can compare to my teamate score" in DM since you have no teamates. That's why CTF is better.



In short:
- If your team is winning and you have a lot of frag, you can say: "I am helping newbies" and feel good.
- If your team is winning and you have almost no frag, you can say: "I am contributing to the overal team victory" and feel good.
- If your team is losing and you have a lot of frag, you can say: "I am surrounded by idiots" and feel good.
- If your team is losing and you have almost no frag, you can say: "I am surrounded by crazy hardcore guys but they are helping me develop my skill" and just barely feel OK.


in DM:
You can say only: "I am surrounded by crazy hardcore guys" or "They ALL suck here... it is no close match... what a dumb server" and leave.

Deathmatch dead? Uuuuuhhhmmmm.........

"I knew it...I'm surrounded by assholes!"

Anybody know the command line variable to disable the intro avi in Quake3? For the life of me, I cannot find it... TIA

If both id and epic are no longer making a basic DM game and leaning more towards some sort of teamplay, what will the DM'ers play?

Maybe regular old deathmatch and 1v1 will die out.

I would think that the idea of making a DM game would seem pretty boring to a game designer. Maybe no one will make them anymore.

Hey, I'll tell you what cooks my ziti: In every online game, there's one map that becomes the standard. In Quake, it was DM6 [pretty much]. In Quake II, it was the Edge. And now in Quake III, it's the Campgrounds. I played Clan Arena back at school for nearly a month, and the server played Campgrounds exclusively. Is it really that important that there be one standard map? I mean, come on.


[My choices would've been DM1 in Quake, Q2DM2 in Q2, and Q3DM13 - I think ... the one called "Lost World," with the right-angle RL bridge at the top of the organic support - in Q3. Oh, well. I tire of there being one standard map. Mix it up!

Oh, and for 1v1, Tom Mustaine's TOM_DM1 rules.

yeah i may be wasting time reading and posting on the shack
but i'm gettin' PAID for it :)

Playing Quake all night and well into the morning, on a modem, with a somewhat nasty ping, and loving every second of it.

That muffled explosion when someone gibbed ... aaahhhh. Gotta go reinstall that.

I remember the the original quake DM, i miss it, i still play every now and then but it doesn't have the people it use to and sCary was dope at quake and i bet he still is.

Yeah, we need more demos by sCary ["Titanium Anus"].

man i need to learn to stop running my mouth
i think i'll go get q3, master it up, and then see how i feel about the weapon balance again
i played a lot of q3test, but then just played ut forever, but now i'm gettin kinda bored of it so i'll see if q3 revives the excitement some

i agree with patridiot about resource management, which is what i think turned me off to q3
too much health and armor on the maps by default :)

I want rocket arena of some sort to be released already.
RAUT was a blast before they made it bugger and unreleased it... having 5 weapons that get used in 1v1 is a great thing.
(Rockets, Flak cannon, Sniper Rifle, Minigun, and Shock Rifle.... and the occasionaly ripper but rarely)
I hope RA3 will be as fun, though I'm skeptical since Q3 basically has 3 good weapons. (Rockets, rail, lightning)
Though actual rocket jumping might be more fun in it.
We'll see.

I like a good 1on1 game, it really lets people stand out and show how good they are without having any team influence.

I do agree that things are going to go the way of teams though. I mean look at basketball, you don't see any pro 1on1 leagues there.

Eventually team is going to be more popular as a spectator sport and hence will surpass 1on1 at the professional level.

But still, 1on1 will never die.

the extend to which your team mates help your team largely depends on their understanding of the game situations; who is at what location doing what?

eg you're doing front defense and your flag runner grabs the flag. depending on the situation at your own base, you might want to move to mid field to cover your flag carrier, if things are quit at your own base. if you see 3 guys running by to get to mid field, you might just as well stay where you are.

"situational awareness" is something you devellop: you have to know some of the intrigacies of the game and you need to know the level. then you build awareness based on the information you get (team overlay, "flag taken" notifications, movements of team members and enemies, etc).

my point is that much of the info to criptic. you realy need to know what to pay attention to. even then you can miss important info.
teamoverlay does give location and status info on team members, but it is in the form of text. split seconds de count and you don't always have time to read and interpret this info. it's hard enough as it is without this handicap that affects newbies in particular.

So, i think all this should be made easier. I think some kind of radar with a simple map and positions/status of team members would be a real good thing.
You could see at a glance whether your base is covered or not, instead of having to rely on years of gaming experience.

One might feel this would make things to easy. I say it would go a long way to improve teamplay and thus intensify the game; it would facilitate team tactics and it would be more fun to play.