Weekend Confirmed Episode 18

Has there ever been a Diablo style action RPG that had regenerating health? I couldn't believe that neither Jeff nor Brian pointed out to Garnett that his bitch about DeathSpank not having regenerating health was wildly off base, at least inasmuch as he posited that it was a staple of the genre. I've never played a Diablo clone that had regenerating health. DeathSpank deserves some criticism, sure, but if you're going to say that it should have regenerating health because other games in the genre do, well, that's just not true.

Has anyone else scratched their heads when they feel like they are the sole person that thinks an universally lauded game is lame? My example is Dragon Age. I realize an opinion is an opinion but when I play a game that feels technically inferior to many other RPG's, and offers a generic storyline, I feel like many critics and reviewers threw in a few hours of gameplay then agreed with the posted masses. Am I the anti-Cannata?

Great show guys! Look forward to next ep!

Hey, I have been listening to your new podcast; I think it is awesome! I have actually listened to every single podcast Garnett has done since the early days on 1 Up. I really think he is the voice of the industry, in the sense that he seems to inhabit a region that is grey and fuzzy to both consumer and producer. Anyways, no point in writing a blog here. I simply want to say, "good job, keep it up".

I would also like to extent my gratitude to the two other dudes hosting this podcast, you guys are a lot of fun to listen to. Brian and the other Japanese white guy are fun to listen to! Having lived in Japan for years, I know where you are coming from man. Might as well find a J-girl and get it over with. Perhaps you two could find a two bedroom condo downtown? You know, so she can go to the local market daily to buy food to cook for you while you are busy recording podcasts and playing Star Craft. I know you think this is a joke, but I have lived this life. When you meat a girl who finds that leveling up is as important as you do, and is willing to cook and clean whilst you do the aforementioned leveling up, you got it made. To really drive home the point, perhaps she will even crack open a Labatt Lite for you after you reach level 50. Might as well put a shot under the cross bar with this one. You don't get chances like this every day mang!

Anyways, </tangent>.

Thanks for reading my pile.

I really love this site and this podcast. weekend confirmed ftw.

Oh, and PS:

Mortal Kombat > Street Fighter.

As a gamer I am really digging sites like twitter because I find myself closely following the happenings of indie developers. This helps small game companies stay on my radar. It's so hard to wade thru all the indie crap on Xbox Live and the Apple app store. I don't want to lose out on great games from the dudes who created Drop 7 for example. Now I just subscribe to my faves feeds. Anyone else find effective ways to keep in touch with small developers?

I have been trying to get some kind or feedback on this one. Do different regions appreciate games completely differently or are the distinctions narrowing? Im thinking a couple of examples each way. I know Garnett loves FIFA but me and my buddies feel that in Europe its looked at differently. I mentioned before that i preferred Backbreaker to the superior Madden because it played football like i thought i would. I think Garnett may feel the same about FIFA. For example he thinks its near perfect yet it causes me and my friends endless frustration at the slightest inaccuracies just because we live and breathe for Soccer. I also think that this is shown in the last formula one race. In the US I imagine Ferarri were villified but in Europe there wasnt a big fuss. Am i right that the differences are as big as ever or are we all becoming a global gaming community?

I know i'm definitely the minority when it comes to "non-console" gaming in that I play games on a Mac, not a PC but I'm wondering if you might find the time to add gaming for macs to the discussion. With Steam available on Mac now, and the portfolio of games continuing to expand, i have to think that gaming for mac will become a larger part of the "PC gaming" discussion. I can't be the only one playing games on my mac can i?

Garnett, I respect your goal of becoming a critic of video games rather than a simple reviewer of video games. Just remember the difference between the two. A critic NEVER says "this is bad" or "this is good", in any context. A real critic will never pick apart a piece of media like that and make any type of judgement based on it's quality for someone to experience. Instead, a critic asks why with a much more unbiased and analytic eye. I personally believe this is very hard to do with modern video games.

You can't look back and reflect on the past decade of games and pull out specific examples within them as to how they relate to the decade they were released socially, culturally, and/or economically (like how the 1940's brought about tons of musicals due to WWII). Or maybe you can?

A critic also deconstructs something to discover the creator's underlying meaning behind it, be it subconsciously or not, and the overall impact one particular work has on the medium, or simply a highly intelligent observation (like how the movie Alien was simply a slasher film dressed in a sci-fi disguise).

I think it's very difficult to think about games in this way, not impossible, but difficult, if only because most game designers today don't ask themselves "why" when making a design decision in the sense of artistic expression (although with recent works like Limbo, this is seems to be changing).

Anyways, I hope you succeed in your goal and I greatly welcome it. I agree, the shack doesn't need to become another "review" site to dictate a games value (we have countless of other sites and the chatty for that). Keep up the amazing work and keep grinding out those podcasts, I love them.

Perhaps as a Warning Question;

When you guys brought up the idea of an 'illusion of freedom', I instantly thought of Uncharted 2. I'm pretty sure I even used the exact phrase in my review;

"With such a believeable and beautifully animated world, and a character that appears to be capable of the impossible, it’s easy to forget that Uncharted 2 is a videogame, with set limitations imposed by the developers.

It’s clear that with Uncharted 2, Naughty Dog set out to create a world with the illusion of freedom. Unfortunately, that’s all it ever is; an illusion. In the latter stages of Uncharted 2, the smoke and mirrors are all too easy to see through, with the curtain fully drawn back. Herein lies the major problem with Uncharted 2: It’s an incredibly linear game."

So here's my question - what do you guys think about freedom (or lack thereof) in videogames? Do you prefer the open world landscapes of RDR and Crackdown 2, where the freedom truly is a freedom, or do you prefer very linear set paths within videogames? If you do prefer linear games, do you want an illusion of freedom? My biggest problem with UC2 was that I felt that I should be able to grab some ledges, or jump onto some platforms, but because it wasn't "the right one", I was punished with death. I'm sure Garnett will love me saying this, but it's the reason why I think I prefer the Tomb Raider titles - if I think I should be able to grab a ledge, I usually can.

Thanks guys, love the show.

PS: Get Chris Remo on.

ive been thinking about the argument between developers and the selling of used games and ive come up with this, probably full of holes and toatally useless, solution

what if for example the next time you bought an EA game it had a folded envolope behind the manual and when you were done with the agame instead of traiding in you log onto EA's website and check the price they're buying used versions of their own games and if it makes sense to, you sell it back to them via the said envolope. then they would be able to sell their own pre owned version for profit completely nullifying shops like gamestop selling their preowned games and depriving developers of money which should go to them.

thoughts?

abit of a random topic but i was with my freind the other day and she was playing (or attempting to play) batman arkham asylum and after what seemed like hours of watching her run into walls and get the camra stuck staring at the sky while she tries to solve the riddles or even find her way out of a corridor, and repeating the explanation of why she should be countering attacks instead of trying to beat them to the punch i had to stop watching and grab a beer im ususally quite relaxed about games and i could spend hours watching the replays on ssfIV or even watch somone tear through a campeign but when people play like this i get stressed for no reason just wondered if there are any games you guys cant watch? or if there are any people you cant watch play?

p.s where's billy?

I might have a topic here with 4MW potential, or just a general discussion I'd love to hear people chime in on.

While discussing Limbo with some friends, a few were very vocal about the lack of music put into the experience. They were convinced this only detracted from the potential the game had to set a more powerful, encapsulating mood.

Feeling otherwise, I quickly jumped to the game's defense, applauding it for it's wonderful sound design and ambience that COMPLETELY set the tone in a way music simply would have diluted. The ominous tones that chime in at pivotal moments are so striking because of the lack of music otherwise. Well, at least that's how I feel, but with a little footnote.

I"ve played through the entirety of the game a few times already. I feel like I now know what the team behind this game was trying to get across to me. Now it's time to experiment. Still thinking about my friends points on the lack of music, during my last play-through I did something I do often, but feel a majority of gamers might not. I scoured my iTunes library and found an album I felt really matched Limbo's mood/presentation, and used the custom soundtrack feature with it (Joanna Newsom / Ys.) (Granted, I do have my iTunes linked to my xbox over my network, which makes it very easy to access any of my music.)

Sweet. Zombie. Jesus. It completely blew my mind playing it with the music I chose, and made another play-through just as powerful as the first. There are probably so many great albums that would give a little more to this game if you feel it's missing something due to lack of music, and the personal relevance of the music can also bring the experience to a whole new level.

The connection doesn't always have to be this deep, though. I can't tell you what a relief it was to have my own music running behind Burnout Paradise instead of having "Paradise City" burning a hole through my ear drums every time I sat down with it. No disrespect to Guns N' Roses at all, but a man can only take so much, and the rotation of songs off the disc was....repetitive.

Do you think a lot of people take advantage of this feature that really is new to this console generation? If you do, what have been some of your music choices to play behind certain games?

I really enjoyed this week's episode. I thought the value and gaming conversation went very well. I might disagree with some of the ideas presented, but I can see the rationale behind them now. I really can't say enough about how much I like and respect this crew. You guys have a great rapport, and I love the formatting. Keep up the good work!

I downloaded Limbo instead of DeathSpank and I'm having a bit of buyer's remorse. Limbo's a very cool experience but I think it suffers from (deliberately?) mundane pacing that takes away from its incredible atmosphere. I finished the game in a sitting and it was captivating but ultimately a bit forgettable. Also, I don't think the story succeeds at being purposefully vague in a way like Demon's Souls or Shadow of the Collusus do. As far as I can tell, the pieces of its 'narrative' aren't as cohesive and they don't seem to have a purpose other than to be aesthetically pleasing. Maybe they require more time or maybe I need to go watch Orphee again. Also, I couldn't stand the damn jump mechanic. As a platformer veteran I instinctively HOLD down the jump to gain distance but doing so in Limbo causes your character to jump continuously. Tons of frustrating deaths due to this.

Regardless, I just booted up the DeathSpank demo and I was instantly captivated by the game. It's got some hidden depth and it plays so fluidly. I also love the design of the world and I love the Ron Gilbert/Diablo mashup.


Also, I suggest you guys check out The Borecast sometime. It's a great podcast that frequently talks about old-PC RPGs as well as current stuff. It'd probab

Ok guys, does anyone know if MvC3 is coming to pc? If I remember correctly SF4 wasn't advertised as heavily as coming to the PC as 360 and PS3. So are they doing the same thing or is this, plus SSF4's absence, a sign Capcom has given up on my favorite platform? I don't understand why they would since it seems computer gamers take to the more technical games such as a hardcore fighter.

Of course I could just be ignorant to the truth, please enlighten me.

Good show. One of the questions that I really like was the retrospective look at this generation and the things that disappointed us and also the things that surprised us. Looking back one thing about this generation that really disappointed me was genre saturation or rather a lack of genre exploration. This relates back to the fact that many of the games of this generation are shooters and while many of my favorite games this generation are "shooters" (half-life 2, mass effect 2, GTAIV), I am still disappointed that many of the other genres such as RTS, platformers, fighters, action-adventure games, etc. are far and few in between.

However, one thing about this generation that has really surprised me is the amazing expansion of digital distribution. One thing they didn't mention on the podcast but I feel is worth mentioning is the fact that digital distribution has allowed for a great deal of back-cataloging of games which to me is very important because it allows the newer generation to experience and appreciate the games that we grew up on and allows allows us to create a very extensive library of games. The digital platform has also allowed for the development of the indie-game space which is one of the most refreshing areas of gaming. It has released some of the most powerful and evocative games ever (Braid, Flower, Limbo) but also has given me hope that the industry can develop games that are not shooters.

Who's got their copy of SC2 ready and installed?

Hey Garnett, what is the ending song? Can you send me the link please?

On Garnett's comment about Alien Swarm being bad for pick-up games...

...it's a free, Source-engine game. Tell your friends who are online to download it, and it will probably run on their machine. Problem solved.

I've been hearing a lot of people on the games coverage side saying how games could learn a thing or two from Chris Nolan's latest screen effort "Inception." Stephen Totilo wrote an interesting review of the film on Kotaku explaining what he thought it's similarities to gaming were. He even made a point to say, "If you've played many video games...so much of Inception may feel both thrilling and familiar." Link below:

http://kotaku.com/5590647/inception-review-video-games-should-be-jealous

WC poster FiendishDude also brought up Inception in another thread while we discussed the thought of games blending cinema with interactivity, saying:

“Though the drama of the movie is incredible and something I believe is only possible via cinematic storytelling (via things like editing and pitch perfect dramatic timing) the most interesting part story wise remains the slow unveiling of the main character's psyche through a literal exploration of his mind. It’s sad that the movie can only spend a handful of minutes doing this. Imagine if someone made an Inception game of sorts, but it was something slow and methodical, like an old school adventure game. It would allow the player to thoroughly examine different characters in ways that movies wouldn't have the ability to do. The story itself wouldn't be rich, in fact, it may not even have a plot, but it would allow exploration of character to reach a new level.”

I'm sure not everyone has had the chance to see it yet, but for those who have, do you think there is anything games can learn from Inception?

Solid show... lots of good points...

My thoughts revolve around the durability of modern games over time, because I do agree that many "experience games" won't play well in the future.

What interests me if how very not true that is for movies. Film is entirely and experience medium, but technology doesn't seem to impact it... Some of the early black and white bogart films are among by favorites, but I agree that going back to Ultima II or Wizardry I isn't going to happen for me.

I feel this point tells us a lot about the flaw of comparing film to games. The main difference, I am not feeling, comes down to length. A movie is an hour or so, a game if usually at least 8 hours and often more like 20.

This allows film to focus on the story and plot in a powerful and condensed manner, it brings the acting to the surface, as there are key scenes where the acting can really come to the surface.

Also, obviously, the advance of film technology has been less than in games. Black & white to color isn't nearly as large a jump as 640x480 with sprites is to full HD in a 3d space with great animation.

Lots of thoughts, but my sense is that as technology starts to level off in games, the voice acting and animation improves, the plots are more professionally written, and digital distribution should allow shorter games that present value, the day may soon come where there are games that WILL indeed be durable enough, as experience games, to remain popular after 30 years.

Great topic... we should remember that gaming technology is still not "done" but that doesn't mean it won't be fairly "done" within about 10 years. At that point, tech will be much less a driver of experience games than what makes a great film.

One small thing that was left out of the Tiger Woods discussion: Tiger Woods 10 was one of the first games to include Wii Motion Plus with the game. I know that's the only reason I bought it. Without the peripheral, it's just another golf game.

I was going to comment on something far more important, but all I'm going to say is this.

Jeff Cannata, bring them the full details of Super Skrull!

It's so sad that Skrulls are taken so lightly when they are a dominating force in the Marvel universe whom nearly conquered Earth and defeated all of the superheroes and supervillains.

Incredibly jealous of Jeff's Lingo appearance, that was a great show! I wish they'd bring it back :(

I think the question of the value of a game (i.e. is flower worth 200 dollars) is directly related to the emotional connection that a person has to the experience. This will sound funny, but I'm not sure if game mechanics even play a role. I would pay 60.00 for flower because of the emotional experience that I had with it. The only problem, is that I would have never know how great the game was if it wasn't so cheap.

Great show... thanks for addressing my contrary little rant. I don't entirely recall what set it off, but at least some good discussion came of it. But I digress...

On a completely unrelated note, I was thinking, as one does from time to time, about games that failed in their time, but have been retroactively praised and re-evaluated as under-appreciated classics. Examples are too numerous to list, but as an example, something like River City Ransom, which certainly wasn't without fans at the time, but has become a much bigger deal in the years since.

Of course, whenever this happens, be it in games, movies, fashion, and especially in music, there's no greater hipster cred than to be able to say that you were "totally into" said thing "before it was cool to like it." Unfortunately, after the fact, there really isn't any way to prove that you were into it unless you actually did trumpet it's cause back when it wasn't cool to do so, and at the expense of being totally wrong.

My proposal to you: call it now. What relatively unsuccessful game of current vintage are you totally into now, that you think (or hope) will retroactively become cool or popular?

For myself, I'm gonna have to go with Opoona, the "Lifestyle RPG" for the Wii. It's not a perfect game, and yeah, the localization is as bad as you might have heard, but it's combination of traditional, turn-based JRPG and Animal Crossing-style social sim wound up being a real breath of fresh air, and the art style and music are gorgeous. It's my favourite game of this generation, and I never give up the chance to sing it's praise for anyone who'll listen, and maybe it's wishful thinking, but I'd like to believe that this game will eventually be appreciated by a wider mass, if only for it's uniqueness.

What are your choices?

This is THE best podcast on the video game market at large. I love hearing everybody's opinions and perspectives, especially Brian's insights.

For future guests I'd like to hear from Alice.

For future topics I'd like a short review/overview on the Asian gaming scene and how you guys think that will impact or is impacting global gaming. I'd also like a 1-2 minute blurb on some Asian games currently in development that look promising or at least seem to have good production values but will probably never debut outside of their home markets. Vindictus is a good example of that. I want to know what I may be missing abroad.

Thought there was about to be a top gear style joke "Some say... "

As is my custom with WC (ever since I was once mentioned in 4MW /stillmyfavouritememoryofalltimeever) I skipped straight to The Warning, just to see what you guys had to say.


Garnett, I now agree with you a lot more than I did last week. Maybe it was the meds last week that meant you didn't get across the same point (or maybe it was the fact I was traveling to London for a thing for TV and was super stressed) but this week I totally agreed with your argument.

Whenever I read/write a review, I can't stand reading something that tells me about how the telemetry is laid out or how many different types of gun you can use - it's not what I want to know. I remember Sir John Davison the Fourth Esq. said that the main thing to remember when writing a review is that it doesn't exist in a vacuum - always make your review about what you thought; the reader can always find what other people think elsewhere.

Whenever I've written a review and then read it through myself afterwards, I always find that I've focused on the emotional stuff - not whether the game made me cry per se, but how I felt when playing.

I still do think that monetary value HAS to play a small part in your recommendation however. I'm not saying that the entire review should be "Well, if we say that price:hours ratio is, on average, $5:1 hours, then this game is severely overpriced rararara", but perhaps in a conclusion there should be some sort of "As you can tell, I absolutely loved flower, and it's an utter steal at the $7 price." or say something like "So, Singularity may have been a pretty average game overall, but if you can pick it up in a bargain bin in a couple months time, I guarantee you'll have fun with it."

I'll get round to listening to the rest of it later. Thanks guys :)