Morning Discussion

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  For me personally, I've been having a bit of difficulty lately with TvP, one 1v1 maps when 'toss starts b... : daVinci1980
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    Bunker in the front, get a few SCVs repairing. You can right click it to have them auto repair now. Then... : ZombieAcademy
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      Behind my walloff or in front of my choke? : daVinci1980
      • Behind, so the zealots can't mess them up. Then send them out when you get enough (if you're MMing) : lolpatrol
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    Scout early, build Rax early. You should be able to have marines out before they can get a gate up. Kil... : cetra00
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      I think I scouted it early enough (for protoss on 1v1 maps I scout at 9, at the same time I start my supp... : daVinci1980
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        On a 1vs1 map where you might expect this kind of thing, yeah. I also tend to build my barrack at 6 supp... : cetra00
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          Ohshi, really? I guess I should try that. I almost always do 9 supply, 10 rax. : daVinci1980
          • Yeah I used to do pretty much the same until I started getting owned by 6 pool zerg rushes on 1vs1 maps. ... : cetra00
          • That should be plenty. If you are really worried, just delay your gas and throw up a second rax. pump mar... : StolenNosferatu
          • 6 rax is pretty damn early. I've been doin 9 rax 10 supply on those small maps - often not walling off, s... : Lexicon_Leidun
        • Don't do this. : Blucklesworth
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          Doesn't that completely destroy your econ? : DHAvatar
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            Not really with harvest call down. You can halt marine production and move back to econ as well once you... : cetra00
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              I'm pretty sure getting a rax at 6 fucks up your econ badly, even with the mule. : StolenNosferatu
              • #2588

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                By: cetra00 x Show Full Post

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                Alright, if you say so. Doesn't seem to be hurting me any, though I'm only in silver league. Mathematically not expanding at the right time is going to hurt your econ more than a 6 rax will.

                May 21, 2010 10:48am PDT
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                Alright, if you say so. Doesn't seem to be hurting me any, though I'm only in silver league. Mathematic... : cetra00
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                  How do you figure? Everything in this game builds from your opening economy. You're arguing that you ca... : Blucklesworth
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                    Consider the cost of walling in especially if you do get attacked. Repairing costs money as does pulling... : cetra00
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                      I fail to see how 6 raxing stops these costs. : Blucklesworth
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                        Uh...you attack the proxy sitting outside your base before it starts producing units. : cetra00
                        • Who is going to proxy when they scout 6 rax? : Blucklesworth
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                          Yeah but if you open every game assuming he's going to proxy, you're going to be at a disadvantage in the... : sammyl
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                            An all in 6-7 Rax reaper rush build is going to win you a fair amount of games. If they proxy you, you'l... : cetra00
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                              You can see what we're saying right? There's nothing wrong with going all-in every game, but I think it'... : Blucklesworth
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                                Small detail you left out. We're talking 1vs1 small maps where 1) Proxy building is most common and 2) w... : cetra00
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                                  proxy building is not even close to common even on small 1v1 maps. In like 150+ games in silver and below... : derelict515
                                  • in 99% of my gold+ games, i've only seen a proxy twice.. and a 9p scout found it, and i wiped the floor w... : Demius
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                                    Do you play Terran a lot? I see it quite often playing T v P as can be very effective versus the common ... : cetra00
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                                      I don't think zealots would ever break the wall against a competent Terran player. : StolenNosferatu
                                      • See the replay where stolen wiped the floor with me :D : Jimb0v2
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                  I should probably add, people do just fine with it since a 6 rax reaper rush is something I am personally... : cetra00
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                    6 rax reaper rush, when defended,means pretty much you lose against any good protoss player : Demius
                    • Doesn't that entirely depend on whether you were scouted and how much you hurt his econ? If you knock ... : daVinci1980
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                      It depends. If you proxy rush a 6 rax reaper on a small map, it's very, very difficult for Protoss to ha... : cetra00
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                        i've only seen maybe 2 or 3 proxy rushes in the last 40+ games i've played.. you see that stuff a LOT mor... : Demius
                        • Yeah, my standard opening against T now is 9p 12-13 gate, drop the cyb as soon as the rax finishes then p... : sammyl
                • not at our level, but high level play its more of an exponential growth meaning a 6 rax (if played perfec... : Demius
          • You know what completely destroys your econ? Lifting off in Scrap Station to go to the island just above : lolpatrol
        • If a protoss player plays an econ build (9p/ 12 or 13 gate) your'e SO far behind at this point if you 6 r... : Demius
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    Outside your choke or inside your base? If it's outside your choke a simple wall with 1 marine ends the ... : Blucklesworth
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      They're trying to build out of sight, in my natural. : daVinci1980
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        Aren't you walling in TvP regardless? I just can't see how this would be effective unless they are canno... : Blucklesworth
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          I do this - (as the protoss). I've been successful by just having 3 gates set up right outside their sit... : flagg209
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            Maybe I played you, this is almost exactly what happened to me. I think I panic'd, though. :) : daVinci1980
            • You should have 2-3 SCVs just chilling by the wall to repair it. If things get dicey, bring more to help... : Blucklesworth
            • It's possible, but I doubt it, I haven't played 1v1 in some time... : flagg209
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  Anyone else working on their placement matches notice that the new people right now really SUCK? I did a ... : digital_d
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    What seems like common sense to someone who follows the community or has a lot of experience is a complet... : Zek
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      Not to mention that reapers are a completely new type of unit. Even if you casually played SC1, you'd ha... : kek
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        oh god reaper harass made me want to murder people when I started and still does when it hits me just wro... : Juno
        • I love it when people try to reaper harrass me because luckily everyone who has tried it against me has s... : flagg209
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  Are there any units that are designed for "siege" for Protoss? (I realize we have siege tanks as terran : kek
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    Colossi outrange all static defense buildings. : Blucklesworth
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      hm, good to know, thanks. : kek
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        Well, you have to have the thermal lance upgrade, I think, in order to outrange the static defense buildi... : Lexicon_Leidun
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          oh, even better to know. :) : kek
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            Yeah, you should always plan on getting the range upgrade if you're going colossus. It owns. : midgetherder
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              Do you need an observer or something to actually see the photon cannons that you're trying to siege with ... : kek
              • Colossi can see over cliffs, etc. so it's more or less equivalent to having an air unit. So no, they don'... : Lexicon_Leidun
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                I'm fairly certain their sight range is longer than their attack range, even with the extended thermal la... : Blucklesworth
                • okay thanks again. : kek
• I will review this later! : unjustend
• Thanks for this. It should be posted every day. : snot3353
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  Day9's daily #121 (which I'm currently listening to) is about some fundamental basics to learn and engage... : Lexicon_Leidun
  • That was a great episode for a noob like me. : midgetherder
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  is SC2 down for everyone? (are they patching?) : Demius
  • Yeah, down for me :( : sammyl
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  I'd like to bring up that I really enjoy foiling the terran wall in with the zerg nydus worm. What? You... : kek
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    I don't think I have ever won with a nydus worm. Everytime I try it I get raped. I try in just this sit... : SqueegyTBS
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      I'm not a pro but I try to time it for when his army is on the move. As soon as I go Lair I hit the butt... : kek
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        But then I am base racing, and that is always a huge gamble. : SqueegyTBS
        • True, but the difference in this particular case for me was that I had static defense that discouraged hi... : kek
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      This worked against me once (TvZ). I didn't know what the screech was. I found out pretty quickly. Now... : daVinci1980
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        I'm not 100% sure about this but I think the Overlord can be well out of marine firing range to see enoug... : kek
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          But then the marine sees the worm and you have 20 seconds to get ready for it. : SqueegyTBS
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            yeah, definately. when I'm playing terran, I'm always building supply depots on the edges of my base so ... : kek
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              The only problem I see with that is that I use supply busting as a technique for preventing my opponent f... : daVinci1980
              • Yeah, i use to do build depots on edges, but i would lose so many to muta or VR harass. Running a marine ... : StolenNosferatu
              • This tactic works stupidly well against nearly every Protoss player. Fly into their main with about 20 o... : morsxcessum
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      It's good for countering. He moves out -> you worm, kill something, get back in the worm in time to defe... : Blucklesworth
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        pure hilarity can occur from a double worm. I can say I've won a decent number of matches, especially vs ... : NexusOne
        • Can you build 2 worms at the same time? : SqueegyTBS
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          o_O I've never tried that. If you load a bunch of units at the entrance to the worm back at your base an... : kek
          • ^two exits I mean : kek
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            You can build as many exits as you want, and unload units from which ever exit you want. You can have guy... : NexusOne
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              There's a global noise when you create an exit, right? Could you create two exits at the same time, one v... : Zek
              • yea, just like nuke launching, only one sound would play from a double deploy. : NexusOne
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            They come out of the one that you hit "unload all" on. So hitting unload on the nydus in your base will ... : SqueegyTBS
            • Right, but not at once. Are you saying that Unload All keeps track of the units you had in the canal at ... : kek
  • Nydus worms are awesome. I've won quite a few games with them, but they're situational like a lot of str... : DHAvatar
• tag! : Neech