More on Metallica & Napster

50 bucks says that Metallica didn't answer a single question without first consulting a lawyer first.

Do they not realize that the have basically alienated a large chunk of their fanbase as a result of this action.

The sad part is Record Labels don't realize that the only way to stop this and other digital distribution networks is to change their business model. Record companies need to embrace digital formats not try to stop them. By filing copyright actions and threatening lawsuits they are alienating the 18-27 year old market base, the internet generation. The are going after the effect and not the cause. (Why do you think boy bands and britney spears type groups are driving the industry right now? 18-27 year olds aren't buying as many CD's. Companies are forced to switch market segments)

Quiet simply most CD's have 1 or 2 "airplay friendly" songs with 8-10 songs of filler. Granted there are some rare exceptions, but for an industry as a whole this is how a product is developed. Focus on two MTV friendly songs and pack the CD with filler in order to cut margins.

The problem with this is that no longer will 1 or 2 songs be able to drive a record purchase. Why buy the album when you can DL the songs you like or you hear on the radio of the web? Why pay 16 bucks for something that maybe 30% of is good?

Record companies solution: Embrace mp3's. Charge a nominal fee for each dl. 20-30 cents. Hell with out having to rely on retail centers and distribution channels a profit will still be there. The problem is that this will force "artists" (I use this term losely) to come up with credible albums and works.

Record companies have been bending the average consumer over a barrel for 30 years now. Consumer are sick of it; Payback is hell. Record companies can fight digital distribution, but that will just alienate the very people they rely on, or they can adopt it and bring the consumer a better product at a better price.

The choice is obvious. Continue to voice your choice. Keep Downloading. Sooner or later it will become so wide spread no copyright action or threat will be able to stop it. Both the law and the industry will have to conform to us. We don't have to conform to them.

283, lots of people are sharing Metallica files...

http://freepages.ugo.com/pimpstick/files/metallica.gif

MP3 is the new open source of the record industry.

Man posting on shack is like doing crack. Once you get going you can't stop.

Oh no! It's the end of capitalism!

Here, have a free mp3 and force Metallica into eating government cheese.
http://freepages.ugo.com/pimpstick/files/Metallica_Aint_My_Bitch.mp3

Metallica is pissing into the wind.

what new standard could replace mp3? it's standard enough, and the means to transmit it thanks to freenet and gnutella, non-company controlled, will keep this movement alive... napster is a scapegoat, as well as mp3.com, because they have fucking tons of cash...

Come to Daddy is a really really demented song. I feel almost dirty after listening to it. What a great Catharsis. Lars aint got shit on Mr. Richard D. James, aka Aphex Twin.

These things always seem to turn into moral debates over owning MP3's, so I'll try to keep my own personal morals out of it. It would just be repeating stuff that's already been said, anyway (and you sure can't expect to change anyone's mind).

My take on all this:

Almost all MP3's are illegal. There is no way around it. You can justify it any way you want, but you are breaking the law.

CD's cost too much. I only want one or two songs off an album. I want rare/live stuff. Artists are too rich anyway. It helps promote new music. It helps me choose what CD's to buy. Artists don't see money from album sales anyway.

Bullshit.

Unless the letter of the law changes, it is illegal to own copies of music of which you do not own the original. The same goes for just anything that is copyrightable (literature, software, art, etc.). In a perfect legal system, everyone owning illegal MP3's would paying fines or go to jail. However, the legal system is not perfect. There are not near enough resources to go after everyone with Napster/Web Browser/News Reader/Gnutella/FTP that pulls down illegal stuff or makes it available to others. Would you still do it if you thought you might actually go to jail?

Metallica is just playing the role of the party crasher. Someone had to do it. It could have been anyone, and they would have caught just as much shit from us. Think about it. Let's say your favorite band in the whole wide world did this. Wouldn't you still be posting the same flames, with "Your Favorite Band" in place of "Metallica"? People are breaking the law and stealing their product. Can you really blame them?

The argument of "they're rich enough anyway" always makes me laugh. Does that mean it's justified to steal from Wal-Mart just because they're insanely rich? Does that mean I can steal Lars's car because he has more money than God? It all takes on a new light when you look at intellectual property on an equal plane as traditional property.

OK, the car might have been a bad analogy, but dammit, the Wal-Mart thing was good.

What does this lead to? Two possiblities come to mind:

1. This is the beginning of the mass public awakening to MP3 and the Warez scene in general. All the publicity will generate even more usage of Napster and it's kind, which will lead to a breaking point. More and more artists will follow Metallica's and Dr. Dre's lead and try to do something about it. Even furthur, this will open up the floodgates for parties persuing action against anyone with any shared copyrighted material, be it through a web browser, IRC, Napster, whatever. Lawmakers will make sweeping judgements on things they know nothing about. Napster will be shut down. Others like it will be as well. Those intent on piracy will be forced to find new ways around the safeguards that will be put in place. It won't be the end of MP3/Warez, just the end of MP3/Warez as we know them.

2. More likely than the first, the music industry will find a way to combat the mass piracy. Copy Protection. Of course, Napster and everything like it will still be shut down. I don't see anyway around that. That will be the interim fix until the copy protection scheme goes live. There will still be ways around the copy protection, but it won't be worth it for the average user. Look at the progress made in software copy protection. Quake II was warezed every way from Sunday, but how many people actually have a warezed Quake III and play it online? Copy protection is looking more and more like what is going to happen. Be assured that, with enough financial backing, the record industry will find a way to do it without affecting the drastically affecting their bottom line. I just hope they don't opt for the pay-for-play alternative. I shudder at anything that resembles DIVX.

Conclusion: Any time you turn a criminal activity into a mainstream practice, you can bet your ass the "Powers That Be" will find a way to shut it down. The floodgates of piracy will be shut down, but it's impossible to plug the leaks.

Damn, that's about a book. I started it this morning, but with all these damn meetings, it's hard to string a coherent thought together. Forgive the rambling.

Pup

I won't lie I own the Metallica black album. Its a fun listen, but not something I would consider Art. They are just rehashing old Zepplin and Sabbath riffs. Nothing more. Its fun, but isn't so inspiring as to redefine music.

Smith & Wesson provides the means to kill somebody. Does that mean Smith & Wesson should be liable for the actions of their gun owners?

Only ONE case in U.S. history has held gun manufacturers liable. ONe one out of hundereds. Hamilton v. Accu-Tek, 13 F.Supp.2d 366 (E.D.N.Y. 1998)(holding some gun manufacturers liable for shooting injuries on the basis of negligent marketing and distribution).

Napster provides users with the ability to digitally distribute information. Does this mean Napster should be liable for the actions of their users?

I think not. All that seperates these two products is the severity of the crimes committed with their products?

You tell me what the rational justification a court is going to use to block the users of Napster? There is none.

Don't believe the Recording Imdustry P.R. machine. (Think about who owns a lot of the record labels... TimeWarnerAOL, BMI, Sony). Assuming Napster can survive the financial drain of ongoing litigation they may just win this one.

I think metal has rot your brain. Listen to something else for a change. There are other generes besides metal and death metal. Listen to some John Lee Hooker, Coltrane, Miles, Wagner, Bach, Johnny Cash or even some Nine Inch Nails or Aphex Twin for that matter. You might then realize the shit your listening too isn't worth the CD its printed on.

Hey, If records cassettes and CD's all have different prices for the same album, how much would an MP3 cost? By the way CD's are cheaper to make that cassettes. Why are CD's more expensive?

FraG. FraG. FraG.

You need to reread what I said, son.

Metallica now officially sucks.

Hmm...I own about 200 CDs. Of those 200, there are maybe five that I feel were not worth the money I paid for them. I like every song on every last one of those 195 albums with perhaps ten exceptions. Sure, I go through phases of listening to just punk, or just acoustic stuff, or just ambient, but I still like all of the stuff I have...A LOT.

I dunno, maybe I'm just lucky, maybe I'm a smart shopper, maybe my tastes in music aren't very rigid...bah. I didn't need mp3s to find most of this stuff either...but they help. Truth is, I can't even remember what made me go and pick up 90% of these CDs...maybe divine intervention.

*hawkeye*
(divine.)

hrm, I forgot to mention this:

The fact is that mp3s are illegal if you do not own a copy of the material in one form or another. It is illegal}. However, I don't think it makes sense to look at events in life and events in society from a purely legal standpoint. It was illegal for the U.S. to declare independance from Britain, it was illegal for a man to stand in front of an oncoming Chinese tank, it was illegal to drink alcohol for some point in time, and it was illegal for Henry David Thoreau to not pay for things he did not believe in. We need to look at if it's right for companies to charge $18 for a cd in which the artists only get less than $1. If you agree with this, then by all means buy cds from wherever. However if you disagree with this then by all means pirate the mp3s, for whatever the reason; just realize that you are breaking the law} and don't try to disguise it as something else. If you don't agree with a law, why should you as an American (sorry everyone else) pay your taxes or even follow the law? Understand the consequences of your actions, but follow what you think is right... not what a bunch of lawyers think is right.

Uh oh, I'm scared now!! *pssshh*.. Whatever..

Check out bits of the chat "log" here:

http://www.nofadz.com/metallicanapsterchat_050200/

doh! forgot to close brakets. :( sorry guys.

i think this is relevant to this post:

http://www.paylars.com

want to help make mettalica happy?

mp3 is my savior.

Let me say this: I'm in a band. We're small. Not many people like us. We suck to most people, but some people do actually like us. mp3 is the easiest way to get fans. Like Offspring said (not a direct quote) We like having fans... or Fans are good... it was something like that. I mean, fuck, over 335,000 people?!? That's over 335,000 REALLY pissed off fans. Me being one of them. This is really just bullshit, I think Metallica, Dr. Dre, etc, should get the fucking sticks out of their asses. Tapes aren't illegal! I can record an album onto a tape and give it away. I can record a CD onto a CD and give it away. Why mp3? I have no clue. In fact, everything I said makes no sense to me... Maybe you can understand it. The point is that, quite simply, some bands love mp3 and some hate it...

Pro mp3: Limp Bizkit, Eminem, Offspring
Con mp3: Dr. Dre, Metallica

Sure, there's more on the list. And Dre has NO business suing for copyright infringement anyway! Has anybody else heard of "samples"... That's all they are, little bits of copied music. Maybe we should trade songs in samples, that must be ok!

Oh well... I'm done...

Metallica's a good band...

FOR ME TO POOP ON!

-Ze BFF d00d

As far as I'm concerned...it doesn't matter. I'm going to keep on doing it, especially for rare songs that are hard to find otherwise...Gundam Wing's "Rhythm Emotion" is one hard as hell song to find...but it's an awesome song, IMO. That's the best thing about Napster...so easy to find stuff. I've got Creed mp3s that haven't been released on any CD or tape.

I'm not going to justify my actions. In the end, it's probably wrong. But hell, no one is perfect (ack, that sounds too much like me justifying my actions...heh). I'm going to do what I want, and so is everyone else.

Heh... sorry Steve. Seems like everyone defected. j/k

The thing is you can report all the warez'ing you want, but most likely the company will just ask the company warezing to pay up and they will. The police like to go after the distributors of warez'ed product.

MS is well aware that companies skimp a little on their purchase of liscences. When you upgrade, however, you're forced to show some proof or buy the liscences. Novell sticked us on that one, we now have probably 110-150 unused novell 4 licences at any one point just so we can connect to any server in the tree at any time... that's a lot of fucking money... $22000!

Too much coffee today FreshView? ;)
{click, click.... clickity click click..... click}

j/k

That slashdot article about the kerberos "dirty tricks" is totally unwarranted. The File is a .cab file that you can open and extract with winzip without agreeing to the liscence agreement. They really need to do some research before posting bullshit hype alerts...

Fucking A! I've overlooked my most blatant example of Metallica losing money...and it was right next door this whole time.

Okie dokie, my roommate next door has burned EVERY SINGLE METALLICA CD AVAILABLE. He didn't purchase a single one. Thats like 300 bucks lost profit to Metallica(all studio albums, many EPs, the Live Shit boxed set, S&M, anything else you can name). The kid has money, he's a huge Metallica fan, he just sees no reason to buy music when he can get it for free. Before he had the CDs, he had crappy dubbed tapes he got off a friend.

Are there others out there like him? YES. Is the recording industry scared of people like him? YES. Should the recording industry lower CD prices? Accoring to the market, no. Price is determined by demand. CD sales increase, no price drop. Oh well. Doesn't give you the right to steal.

*hawkeye*
(I have no idea what my opinion is on all of this.)