Evening Reading: No More Transcribing, Please

I'm a little fried from transcribing a forty-five minute call with the fine folks at Bungie about Halo: Reach. We revealed a lot of info today and I'm extremely excited for Reach.

You can read up on the revealed features or jump right into the in-depth look at the Arena system. As for me, I'm going to go relax. Your regular chatty density will return tomorrow.

From The Chatty
  • reply
    March 18, 2010 5:00 PM

    [deleted]

    • reply
      March 18, 2010 5:00 PM

      Obligatory "I dont have SC2 yet" whining.

    • reply
      March 18, 2010 5:00 PM

      still downloading :( - says 86minutes left. SO SAD

    • reply
      March 18, 2010 5:02 PM

      [deleted]

      • reply
        March 18, 2010 5:02 PM

        [deleted]

        • reply
          March 18, 2010 5:18 PM

          Wait, they're erasing names as well as stats?

          • reply
            March 18, 2010 5:26 PM

            Yup. Names, Friend's lists, everything. They said they want to mimic a launch day scenario so that they can stress test.

          • reply
            March 18, 2010 5:46 PM

            I'm so happy. I chose a retarded name, thinking I was just naming a character.

            • reply
              March 18, 2010 5:48 PM

              Yeah I'm glad I get to rename, if only because I did the x.x formatting a little dumb.

            • reply
              March 18, 2010 6:38 PM

              My name is super retarded. I wouldn't let me take my usual (stupid) KoolAidMan name so I took the even dumber OHYEAH.talkingpunch.

              Thing is its so over the top stupid that I think I've gone back to liking it, think I'll keep it.

      • reply
        March 18, 2010 5:03 PM

        maulla.maulla bitches

      • reply
        March 18, 2010 5:04 PM

        the list is getting so long you are much better just starting SC2 through Steam, joining the steam chat channel, and using the steam overlay to find out who is available!

        at least until they make some kind of grouping system or whatever

      • reply
        March 18, 2010 5:06 PM

        Reeves.shack :D

      • reply
        March 18, 2010 5:07 PM

        wurt.sev

      • reply
        March 18, 2010 5:09 PM

        [deleted]

      • reply
        March 18, 2010 5:17 PM

        Squeegy.shack !!!

        I suck.

      • reply
        March 18, 2010 6:44 PM

        Thanks for adding me Goldfish!

        If anyone wants to play with a semi-newb who just got beta today, add Theatrikal.wood !

      • reply
        March 18, 2010 11:58 PM

        add ninjase.shack !

      • reply
        March 19, 2010 12:54 AM

        SlayerBill.slayerbill

      • reply
        March 19, 2010 2:39 AM

        Wokkers.wok

    • reply
      March 18, 2010 5:14 PM

      [deleted]

      • reply
        March 18, 2010 5:20 PM

        [deleted]

        • reply
          March 18, 2010 5:21 PM

          fast roach should have you down before you can get immortals out really. best i've seen is people using zealots and good skill with sentries

          • reply
            March 18, 2010 5:23 PM

            [deleted]

            • reply
              March 18, 2010 5:25 PM

              assume he is also going to put early pressure with a group of lings as most zerg will if going straight to roaches so if you don't have a zeal out until 21/22 that is going to end you.

              on top of that if he shows up with 5-6 roaches when you are pulling out your first immortal then it won't make a bit of difference. i'm not saying it is instant win, i am just saying that straight to immortal is difficult to pull off.

              • reply
                March 18, 2010 5:26 PM

                (i would be very afraid to not have a unit out until 21 supply against zerg)

                • reply
                  March 18, 2010 5:28 PM

                  ^ this, you always have at least 6-10 lings to deal with even if you're roach rushing. But again early and good scouting will let you know.

                • reply
                  March 18, 2010 5:28 PM

                  [deleted]

                • reply
                  March 18, 2010 5:28 PM

                  I go zealots + speed boost and an observer to counter roaches

                  • reply
                    March 18, 2010 5:30 PM

                    i couple of force fields from sentries to split / up the roaches + charging zealots = awesome against roaches to a point.

                  • reply
                    March 18, 2010 5:31 PM

                    the time you get to speed boost and have a large enough zealot force to counter roaches, mutas are usually on the way and then you're really boned.

                  • reply
                    March 18, 2010 5:45 PM

                    You can have immortals out by the time charge is done being researched.

                    • reply
                      March 18, 2010 5:49 PM

                      Yeah but at least that way I have a mass of zealots to counter any tech 1 rush.

          • reply
            March 18, 2010 6:06 PM

            Not really.

            Fast roach might have a few on your doorstep just before the immortal pops, but having 1-2 sentries there to block the roaches will buy you enough time for it to pop. The roaches will die once its out.

            Scouting is key. Grab a few extra zealots if you see zerglings or a FE. Attack with them if you see a FE. Otherwise go straight to the immortal with a small number of zealots and 1-2 sentries. If you don't see roaches by the time the second immortal pops, send a zealot to see what's up. Attack if you see lair, or an early expansion. Grab some anti-air if you see the liar -- the zerg is probably going for mutas. You kinda want to kill him before the mutas.

            • reply
              March 18, 2010 6:08 PM

              oh yeah, and if there's an immortal in your base -- kill it with the sentries, and attack (if one isn't coming, or one just passed). That'll set back the zerg's production and give you a pretty big advantage at that point.

            • reply
              March 18, 2010 6:11 PM

              did you even read the specific build we are discussing here? :P

              • reply
                March 18, 2010 6:13 PM

                Is there a new one?

                I've see fast roach and mass roach. Neither have enough roaches to kill you before the first immortal comes, provided you're not screwing around trying to make a large t1 army first.

                • reply
                  March 18, 2010 6:20 PM

                  well there is a very specific build in the post i was replying to that does not involve any sentries at all and does not call for a single unit produced until 21 supply which is what led to the discussion of a ling push would create major problems leading into the roaches.

                  but i think you skipped all that conversation

                  • reply
                    March 18, 2010 6:26 PM

                    Okay.

                    You scout.

                    If you see zerglings, then you stop following this recipe, drop another gateway, and get a few zealots out. If you see zerglings, then you won't see roaches as quickly. If you think this build is too risky, then drop another gateway and get a few ground units. You'll delay the immortal, so grab a few sentries to block the ramp in case they're going fast roach. Use the sentries to block the choke and buy you the time needed to pop the first immortal -- it'll work (I've done it).

                    There is no perfect build or unit or unit combination in Starcraft 2. There will always be ways to defeat builds and units -- the key is learning what will beat them, how to identify it (scouting!), and knowing how to counter it if you see it. That's Starcraft 2 in a nutshell.

                    • reply
                      March 18, 2010 6:38 PM

                      yes walker, if you decide your build is not going to work you change it to suit what you see. wise words.

                      • reply
                        March 18, 2010 6:45 PM

                        All of these discussions seem to revolve around finding the perfect build for every situation.

                        This particular build will have a few immortals out before roaches reach you. It's also very susceptible to zergling rush. A more balanced build will have one or two immortals out before the usual "mass roach" attack will beat you, but not before a quick 4-roach rush. Dropping a sentry or two in the balanced build can buy you the time to hold off the 4-roaches long enough for an immortal, provided you used chronoboost liberally and effectively.

                        Fast immortal is not particularly difficult, and can happen long before zealot speed or any of the other counters are available. It's also a much harder counter than a large number of sentries, and easily transitions to an attack to kill the zerg.

                        • reply
                          March 18, 2010 6:55 PM

                          we weren't really searching for the perfect build until you came in tho. we were talking about one specific build that was mentioned and the weakness of it. you went off on some tangents about what *you* would do differently when we were really just trying to stay focused. :P

                          • reply
                            March 18, 2010 7:16 PM

                            I honestly don't know what was being discussed.

                            This build will have an immortal out before fast roach reaches your base. In game time, fast roach pops the first set of roaches at ~4:30, and this will give you the immortal at ~5:00. Early zergling pressure delays it by about a minute, which similar to the delay you'd see with a more standard protoss opening.

                            You will not be killed by roaches before the immortal comes out.

                            • reply
                              March 18, 2010 7:51 PM

                              [deleted]

                              • reply
                                March 18, 2010 8:15 PM

                                Yeah.

                                The post I came in on was the one that stated fast roach will have you beat before the immortal comes into play. That's most certainly wrong, unless you're not chronoboosting, building too much t1, or many one of the classic mistakes (bad base design, no econ/not constantly pumping probes, etc.).

                                Quick immortal is how I beat zerg all the time, though I tend to be a bit more conservative and use sentries to help block the gate. Protoss builds are tough, and my micro isn't good enough to execute these things exactly.

      • reply
        March 18, 2010 5:41 PM

        according to the wiki your best bet is focusing them down with sentries. The problem is their health regen so in small scale skirmishes they are really strong. http://starcraft.wikia.com/wiki/Roach can't actually test it out yet but it seems to make sense.

    • reply
      March 18, 2010 5:17 PM

      Starting a begging thread in MD didn't help, so now let me try reverse psychology: I don't want to play in the beta anyway!

      • reply
        March 18, 2010 5:20 PM

        I am waiting for Sparkly's night time contest since I finished second in the morning one.

      • reply
        March 18, 2010 5:25 PM

        [deleted]

        • reply
          March 18, 2010 5:49 PM

          I figured there would be more people with beta invites to pass out.

      • reply
        March 18, 2010 5:33 PM

        Begging isn't working, so I'm going to offer up trades. I will volunteer my services as a personal consultant (via skype) in the following areas of expertise for 1 beta invite to SC2:

        1. MMA and UFC knowledge and predictions (i'm currently 13-2 for ppv main card predictions this year).
        2. Linux systems administration and troubleshooting.
        3. Relationship advice.
        4. Pop culture trivia.
        5. LOST theory crafting.

        or if you just want a bro to chat with, i'll do that too.

        • reply
          March 18, 2010 5:39 PM

          I will trade some what terrible artistic skills for a SC2 beta invite. Just let me know what you need drawn.

          At this point the drawings are limited to:

          1. Terran Space Marines.
          2. 40k Space Marines
          3. Other scifi stuff.
          4. Bear and Guinea pig : playing Cops and Robbers.

          Now I make no promises the art is great....but it might be ok.

        • reply
          March 18, 2010 7:12 PM

          I don't have a spare beta key, but can I still get your services?

          I am begging.

    • reply
      March 18, 2010 5:25 PM

      I played my first 4 matches! I won the first 3 and then I finally lost one. Terran went straight to air and I went straight to roaches. Welp.

    • reply
      March 18, 2010 5:49 PM

      [deleted]

      • reply
        March 18, 2010 5:55 PM

        that is another build that i have seen sentries + force field become verrrrry useful

        • reply
          March 18, 2010 6:02 PM

          [deleted]

          • reply
            March 18, 2010 8:19 PM

            Micro your colossus, and have zealots to prevent that from happening. Also, I'd recommend getting the +1 attack upgrade -- it seems to make melting marines really, really easy. I usually start going for speed zealots after the first few colossus are out, to help fend it off and better my counter-push.

            Zealots and sentries are key. m/m focusing the colossus will get shredded by zealots. m/m focusing the zealots will get shredded by the colossus. Sentry shield helps mitigate some of the damage, and force field helps prevent their kite.

      • reply
        March 18, 2010 8:00 PM

        Psi-Storm.

        Collosus is gonna be your support. But are just so easily countered by missile turrets and air units...

        Ideally, you probably need a mixed army... Psi-Storm templars. Collosuseses. Zealots. Sentries. Stalkers.

        Keep in mind, I'm not in beta :/ Just from watching replays though.

      • reply
        March 18, 2010 8:16 PM

        Why was there a second wave?

        • reply
          March 18, 2010 8:38 PM

          [deleted]

          • reply
            March 18, 2010 8:40 PM

            he killed 3 colossus with a "small" ball of m/m/m and no vikings? riight....

            • reply
              March 18, 2010 8:47 PM

              [deleted]

              • reply
                March 18, 2010 8:59 PM

                ... yeah...

                keep your colossus on the high ground, let him come to you. use sentries to segment his forces.

                The colossus should have destroyed his force without really a loss.

    • reply
      March 18, 2010 5:52 PM

      woo I won my first game because he got disco'd

    • reply
      March 18, 2010 6:23 PM

      How the fuck do I beat terran as zerg. I can take out toss and ZvZ usually works out, but Terran stomp me almost every time. I've been trying to just knock down the front door with banelings recently, but even that doesn't go very well. Nidusing into their base can help sometimes, but usually by the time the nydus is up they have an expansion and i'm not hurting their economy as much as i need to.

      Do I just need to tech directly to hydras?

      • reply
        March 18, 2010 6:36 PM

        Roaches and don't fight at the choke. You could tech to mutas if it looks like he's going to turtle. I've seen people get creative and nydus worm into the side of the base too, although that could backfire if he is ready for the worm.

        • reply
          March 18, 2010 7:00 PM

          [deleted]

          • reply
            March 18, 2010 7:20 PM

            the baneling pathing could use some work... I wish there was a way to always have them at the front of my army.

          • reply
            March 18, 2010 7:34 PM

            Banelings are fun but they aren't really that great since by their nature they embody an all-in strat and if your all-in fails you die

      • reply
        March 18, 2010 8:03 PM

        Banelings and Hydras might work well against mass m/m/m. Hydras are much stronger than they were in SC1. They are slow though, so if you're not careful, you can be kited a bit.

      • reply
        March 18, 2010 8:39 PM

        Nydus + Muta harrass has working aright for me, granted i've only done 4 practice games lol.

    • reply
      March 18, 2010 7:59 PM

      how do I play replays omg

      • reply
        March 18, 2010 8:13 PM

        documents\starcraft II beta\replays\

        move them there and place them in a folder like Recent or Skirmish etc
        then you can open from inside the game

    • reply
      March 18, 2010 9:12 PM

      Hope to finish cleaning house Saturday Arvo - play some games this weekend.

    • reply
      March 19, 2010 12:33 AM

      5 practice matches down!

      I was feeling very discouraged with 3 losses in a row, but then I wont the next 2. I seem to have settled on Protoss first. I seem to get them more the other races. And well placed colussus seem to rape m/m/m.

      Now it tells me i have 10 more practice matches... Oh well, I need the practice.

Hello, Meet Lola