Evening Reading

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  No...I suppose I would agree. It's a "good", interesting film, it was competently made, and did what I fe... : PlanetPerfecto
  • Just watched it today and loved it. I don't want a sequel. I think it ends just right. : Tawler
  • Yes, I have questions. : Visceral Monkey
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    they stole shit just about from every movie and video game imaginable. Creativity D+ : gyokuro
    • Everybody steals. : _jon
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      Go watch Doom. : Goblin au
      • I hear the doom video game was kind of based on the movie Aliens. : Maddog_Delphi97
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      And wah about the aliens, how many fucking sci-fi movies have aliens? Another clear lack of creativity. : Zombie Vonnegut
      • an alien video game movie sounds like the perfect movie to me. : podizzle
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    i seriously don't understand anyone who doens't think this movie isn't the fuckin' shit : JINKY
    • triple negative ftw : miasma(&)
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      It's good, and more importantly, leaves me wanting to see more of his movies. It just wasn't the best thi... : Visceral Monkey
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        Agreed. Although I never compared it to Aliens [or any other film]- I think many people have a hard time... : PlanetPerfecto
        • Just got back from it and this is how I feel.It looks cool but I don't feel any need to watch it again. : DarkWolf5
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        i think it might be the best sci fi movie since aliens. i loved every minute of it. : JINKY
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          This is such an uninformed remark, that mind you, everyone is making. It's not even the best sci-fi film ... : Wisp!
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            What's the best sci fi film of the summer, Wisp? : SpaecKow
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              Moon? : invisible_kid
              • This is correct. : DarkWolf5
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                If Alien and Aliens isn't sci fi then neither is Moon. Moon is a movie about putting a character in a pre... : SpaecKow
                • Moon is a lot more than that. It raises ethical and moral questions, and examines present day issues in t... : Wisp!
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                Overall Moon IS a better movie, and more cost effective to make. : Zombie Vonnegut
                • More cost effective maybe, but I still think that District 9 was better overall. Moon sits as my #2 so fa... : Milleh
                • how do you judge "cost effectiveness" : Clay
    • yeah people that dont' think its the fuckin' shit are morans and need to get a brains.! : gyokuro
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    Hello old friend, we haven't talked in a little while. The movie is thin, very thin at moments, but th... : SpaecKow
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      Hello good sir! I think your assessment is fair, I simply won't be the one joining you for a re-watch too : PlanetPerfecto
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        you cant be serious. The weapons where the "gimmick" that sold the whole film. Just try imagine the film ... : gyokuro
        • i don't have a problem with gimmicks. "gimmicks" are useful a lot of the time- i have a problem with "exc... : PlanetPerfecto
        • There was lots of other awesome stuff besides the weapons. The movie is awesome because there was a ton o... : bozer
      • Blomkamp probably had a whole ton to do with it, I wouldn't be surprised if he was very hands on in direc... : SpaecKow
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  I thought it was ok and worth the money, but not worthy of all the hype. Cloverfield was much better. : jnukem99
  • Haven't seen it yet, but I hope you're wrong, because I thought Cloverfield was utter crap : bigpig
  • Cloverfield was the shittiest movie i've seen in the last 5 years. So glad i watched it with Rifftrax and... : Dschinghis Khan
• The imperfections of District 9 added something to it in a way. It brought out the human's (and alien's) ... : lowayne
• I finally saw it tonight and loved every minute of it. I cant imagine a movie i saw in the cinema i genui : SigENeaT
• it was just a surprise is all, more interesting than the average sci-action flick. I did think the transi : thebigbeefsandwich
• i loved district 9, not best movie ever but it was entertaining as fuck. : unsound

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  The Vampire game using source engine : Yabrodan
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    Vampire: the Masquerade I thought they did a helluva job with the tits in that game too. : TrickSh0t
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      Oh yes they did. : bolneze
      • Oh yeah the schizo chick. Very hot. : bolneze
  • I agree, the face work they did in this game was great. You could actually read off the person's face whe... : Arctic Fox
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  Unless my memory is failing, I thought Mass Effect did an excellent job for the amount of time you spend ... : hoov1185
  • you're right actually, ME is definitely up there with the best of them : niceguynick
  • ME was great, and the best character for this was Wrex. Even though he had the least human mouth, his li... : mopic42
  • Very true. Surprising then that Dragon Age looks like a return to crappy lip flapping. Really don't get i... : node
• I remember being really impressed with Silent Hill 3's lip syncing when it came out. : DeBurgo
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  Half Life 2. : sigpro
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    that g-man tech demo of their technique blew me away. ive actually not really seen better since and its ... : smacknca
    • This is what I was going to say. : Wadmaasi
  • Yes, and I was impressed with the Rage demo sync work. : dognose
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    it's weird how old that game is, and it still does lip synching better than so many titles still coming o... : qwpeoriu
    • HL2 has the best lip syncing and most realistic looking eyes of any games I've played. Amazing that it c... : Horn
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    any game on the hl2 engine has damn good lip syncing. : ghost hacker
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      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCbXmToPcu8 : humbleone
      • ahahahahahha nice once !! : ghost hacker
      • lol : OmegaRed59
      • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NwEWOiTXMuQ : thejay247
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  Source engine games are the only ones to pull it off ingame at all convincingly, so much so that all othe... : MeestaNob
  • Yep, they really are a class above the others. : filthysock
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    Agreed. Their implementation of whatever physics engine they licensed is also superior to pretty much an... : Sapiens
    • I think they did their own. I remember playing CS Source and being impressed that the bodies had actual w... : node
  • +1 along with the "acting" and physical interaction - when Alyx interacts with Dog, leaning on him or gra... : mopic42
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  Half Life 2 not only nails lip sync, it also nails convincing acting and behavior better than any other g... : Serpico74
  • I remember in that PC Gamer article on TF2 way back when they were talking about how much work they were ... : mrblarg
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  crysis : aeg1x
  • This was just a little bit off, but I really liked the facial animation in this game, it was stunning. : megarust32
  • This was the first game that I felt had better lip synching than half-life 2 : Dontdrop
• donkley kong : drucifer
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  I was surprised that Rage didn't do better here. Granted.. I have only seen the trailer (but kinda remind... : humbleone
  • Thanks I need to see this : doomed
  • The Rage trailer I saw didn't seem to have as much articulation as Source, but it was certainly better th... : MeestaNob
  • Dude. You can't be serious. The game hasn't been released yet. You can't go off of the trailer as it's ba... : TrickSh0t
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  I'm suprised no-one has been using all the performance capture tech out there in games. The motion cap st... : 60days
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    Mocap is used extensively in a vast range of games today. Mocap data doesn't just get used in cutscenes e... : SketchyFletchy
    • I meant more facial performance capture. iirc there are some markerless versions around now, but I imagin... : 60days
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    i did mocap facial work for some games. the biggest problems is how many bones you're going to use to ... : ibrokn
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      I'd like to see RPGs etc. using the approach instead of the usual stiff head + shoulders with occasional ... : 60days
      • yeah, if i remember right it was more of a problem that bone systems were 8 bit. i think crytek decided ... : ibrokn
      • Final Fantasy XII had incredible cutscene performances from the characters. I was blown away when I pl... : cornchak
• Rock Band :< : Deathlove
• MGS4. : SketchyFletchy
• When I play Duke3D and kill a PigCop I lipsynch Duke's lines PERFECTLY. Props to 3DR : dognose
• Half-Life 2 is the only game to do it well that I've played. Everything else just feels so wooden. : SiW.
• Daikatana : kramweil
• Shadow of the Colossus : deathofrats
• HL2 and Psychonauts. Most games don't pay much attention to animation and it shows. : jipey
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  Check out Heavenly Sword, it has excellent facial animation and lip synching. It's some of the best I've ... : qwpeoriu
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    I still think HL2 beats it. It's damn close though. : SiW.
    • I thought Heavenly Sword's was way better. HL2's is good and convincing, but the facial animation in HS w... : Arceihn
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    I was going to mention Heavenly Sword too...it's not totally consistent for all characters, but the evil ... : Borzoi
    • twing twang yes, Heavenly Sword did good : dael
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      You can't beat Flying Fox tho - he's a nutter. : abrasion
      • yeah that was impressive : Borzoi
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    It's all mocapped. Not really that impressive from a technical point of view. : cornchak
    • http://nofatclips.com/02007/08/24/heavenly/capturingperformance.jpg : cornchak
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      but they took the time to refine the animations beyond just the mo-cap, and also made the effort to get s... : Borzoi
      • which all makes sense, since the whole project was spearheaded by Gollum himself, Andy Serkis. : Borzoi
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        doesn't really matter to me if they got it from rubbing a magic lamp, the end result is impressive : qwpeoriu
        • i'll reiterate: raw mo-cap doesn't always result in cool character animations. In fact I've worked on gam... : Borzoi
        • Well, there's a scalability issue I think. If you have a dynamic system, say one like Valve's, that ... : cornchak
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  Uncharted. : IndigoAK
  • Shit yeah! Uncharted had fantastic facial animation. Looking forward to Uncharted 2 - that trailer looks ... : SketchyFletchy
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  Soul Reaver 2 : kallanta
  • Quake1. : spazzium
  • I agree, amazing for it's time. : h0cake
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  star wars the force unleashed has some pretty great facial animation : cpt_gloval
  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GssQ_kaV8-4 : cpt_gloval
• Psychonauts : Link.
• Half-Life 2, and just source games, haven't seen any better since : ClawHammR
• Resident Evil : indosauros
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  Milli Vanilli's Blame it on the Rain Simulator 2.0 : PlanetPerfecto
  • Zing! Nicely done. Game sucked though. : TrickSh0t
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  Tetris. : omnova
  • what the hell is this : Chandler55
• Well from the videos I've seen, The Beatles Rock Band seems pretty fucking good! : thetangent
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  Source engine games are the only one to ever impress me. Between the lip syncing, facial animation, and ... : valael
  • I agree, it still surprises me that years later so many games just can't get it right. : Halen
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  Troika's work on Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines. Already voted, but I feel this neeeds to be stated... : T-900
  • Yep. They also get credit for one of the first games to feature three titles! : TrickSh0t
• GTA 4 and Midnight Club LA did a great job thanks to ImageMetrics helping R* out. : dchavez999
• Why were you looking at there mouths anyways unless you wanted to kiss them... wasn't the audio good enou... : nientiendo
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  C&C: Renegade. : Marrbe
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    Renegade had potential to be an AWESOME game. To bad it was a fucking abomination : foo
    • I remember playing the multiplayer demo and having a fucking blast. I never did buy it though! : Ellissd
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  Surprised that nobody mentioned Fallout 3, i thought it was pretty good with even tongue animations. (als... : kaankasim
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    Sorry, Fallout 3 and Oblivion's lip syncing is horrible in my opinion. They're far from the worst and... : Schnapple
    • I really wish Bethesda could get the animations right. They're so wooden and unbelievable. : hoov1185
  • Fallout 3 is an example of how not to do it. : freshyk
  • I think the other replies you've gotten very clearly illustrate why no one has mentioned Fallout 3. : poindexter1985
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  Deus Ex....just kidding! laughably bad. : varsindarkin
  • You don't joke about Deus Ex like that. Take it back. : Marrbe
  • Actually it was extremely good for its late nineties technology. Superior to to the muppets that just had... : SpaecKow
  • Considering it was 1999 and in the Unreal Tournament engine, it was quite good for the time. : tomservo
• The only recent games that have even come close to HL2 are Mass Effect and Far Cry 2 imo. (Haven't played : mn3m0n1c
• Lots of games have today what I'd consider perfectly good lipsynching, its the ones that fuck up which st... : SpaecKow
• Eat Lead did a pretty great job of it. If the enemy AI was any good it would have been a fantastic game. : getlefty
• GTA 1 : hanged_man
• Pong : jjjapan
• The demos I've seen of Rage are pretty much the best I've ever seen. : Schnapple
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  This was said earlier, but you people are nuts for overlooking it: UNCHARTED! : treefingers1
  • The facial animation combined with the solid lip-synching pull you in like no other game. Uncharted 2 lo... : treefingers1
• Rock Band : Milli Vanilli : r3dn3ck
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  I agree with pretty much every game posted here... HL2, ME, MGS4, Uncharted, Crysis, etc. But no one h... : dpgagnon
  • The animations in that game in general are pretty gorgeous. : node
• Dark Athena mate. : etherealrhythm
• Rock Band. Call me a weirdo, but I JUST noticed how the singer's lips sync up to the song perfectly. Nice... : Shadsy
• Wing Commander 1. It was the first game I can remember where I saw any sort of lip syncing, and I was bl... : Dimmona
• Half-Life 2, Uncharted : tomservo
• I remember being impressed by the lip synching in Anachronox. Damn that game needs a sequel so bad. : Frank_Mackey
• riddick : Downforce
• can't say anything has ever struck me as particularly great. : ass-street
• Uncharted, Heavenly Sword - amazing cutscenes in both those games, possibly better than anything I've eve... : abrasion
• Half Life. Because Barney even mouths the beeps when he presses the buttons on keypads :D : slackshoe
• HL2 is the only answer, its damn near perfect : dignan
• Mass Effect is good. The expressions are sweet as well. : tohm82
• Heavy Rain should be a game to look out for. http://www.gametrailers.com/video/gc-09-heavy-rain/54810 : ultramega

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  Why do they want to spend even LONGER developing the next engine? Their stuff will be eclipsed by competi... : ventro
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    Unreal Engine 4 development and Unreal Engine 3 development are happening in tandem. The 2014 target m... : SpaecKow
    • also, they do these engines with licensing in mind, so there are probably all sorts of tools, end user do... : Borzoi
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    im not sure what the dates mean, gears of war 1 did come out in 2006 so u3 engine had to be quite done be... : Chandler55
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      I thought that was the first UE3 game released. Seeing as how that's all in-house, they could have develo... : qwpeoriu
      • I think it was RoboBlitz. Could be wrong, though. : CrabsJarrard
  • Unreal Engine 3 is constantly evolving. They added a bunch of large scale changes for Gears of War 2. : enyakk
  • I've enjoyed several Source-engine games but I don't think the engine itself has ever wowed me. It's not ... : nudel
  • they don't WANT to spend more time, they have to. : moshman
  • UE3 now is not the same as when the 360 shipped. Every engine constantly evolves, especially when it's be... : derelict515
  • uhh Source is pretty behind and painfully slow to evolve visually. and on the PC, its an unwieldy system ... : spiderfill
  • They probably define the best engine is the one that makes money. No one is really buying the source eng... : ease one
  • What are you talking about? UE3 is also evolving and currently tech and tools wise UE3 is way ahead of So... : Fred Garvin
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  Looks like they're expecting something like Larrabee to be standard. : thecatinthehat
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    I'm not looking forward to my CPU and GPU being on one part :/ : abrasion
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      That is because you are a turncoat PenisTripple fag and know that if Intel started issuing ranges of proc... : SpaecKow
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        Why would you do this? - replacing CPU and GPU in one at a higher cost would suck and overclocking head... : abrasion
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          No dude, no one would just put a GPU on a CPU. These new parts people are talking about are something sup... : SpaecKow
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            It's where they are heading, have you read the articles? : abrasion
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              Do you mean have I gone through the slides? Yeah, but I saw nowhere in there Tim saying that he wants to ... : SpaecKow
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                Fuck Tim, have you been reading intel articles - where they say it's where they are heading - Tim doesn't... : abrasion
                • Oh that, yeah I dunno how much stock I'd put into that, a lot of different projects regarding graphics ar... : SpaecKow
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                  The industry believes that GPUs are going in the direction of CPUs in the sense that they are becoming mo... : jim bone
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                    I think a key performance issue for general purpose code will be how fast you can switch between "normal"... : uncleanmonkey
                    • Yeah there's definitely some architectural advantages to putting them on the die. Both Intel and AMD are... : jim bone
    • it's inevitable : moshman
  • Carmack kind of hinted at this as well. : mrwolf710
  • Yeah, not holding much hope out for Larrabee. Good people running the program, but Intel has an abysmal t... : Fred Garvin
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  I don't see processing becoming faster than what developers can keep up with. There will always be some g... : code-e255
  • But is that poor optimization or actual highend quality? Then I guess you could always crank up effects i... : Marrbe
  • I think he's pretty much right when he says "Perf will go up by 20x, budgets by only 2x or less, ergo the... : uncleanmonkey
• Valve said something similar about exponentially rising costs and time for Half Life 2, hence the episodi... : Klebold
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  Sweeney predicted in 1999 that CPU rendering would take over again by 2006-7: http://archive.gamespy.com/... : Alice O'Connor
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    I think its an inevitability - what do you see as the obstacles to that happening? Software rendering is ... : SpaecKow
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      I'm simply saying, in ten years time be sure to whip that quote out and be a dick on the Internet to make... : Alice O'Connor
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        You'll see software rendering next year, even if it's not the dominant technique (LRB is coming out!). It... : uncleanmonkey
        • No it's not. Not at all. : Fred Garvin
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        I'm not being a dick to you on the internet, I think there might have been a misunderstanding because my ... : SpaecKow
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          The dick was me all along! This is why I should never post. : Alice O'Connor
          • WHOA, like Fight Club! Anyway, I dunno maybe the tone of that writing was too direct so it came off a... : SpaecKow
  • So he's off by a few years but it's pretty obvious now that the overall prediction will turn out to be ri... : uncleanmonkey
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  The central issue if I recall is that games are still very much In Order applications, so taking proper a... : mn3m0n1c
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    Welp Intel is doing a lot of this work, they've got Michael Abrash developing a vectorized renderer and o... : SpaecKow
    • Heh, I started getting the Intel Software Dispatch & Visual Adrenaline a while ago, so I have been readin... : mn3m0n1c
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      Unfortunately rendering is, by far, the easiest task to parallelize - GPUs have been doing this for years... : mockery
      • Another huge issue is memory bandwidth. As you scale up in number of processors it gets insane really qui... : dravalen
  • Its not so much 'games' but programming paradigms in general. It'll have to be some kind of completely d... : ShadowRam
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  Who do you think would win in a slap fight between him and carmack? : MoreVespeneGas
  • Only one of them is a trained martial artist, so ... : Lunaran
• I remember reading that Epic said that the new engine tech would be ready for commerical release around t... : JesperKarlsson
• believe me software ALWAYS can waste the computational power : gyokuro
• i remember when i got my first pentium-100 machine wondering what the fuck we could possibly do with a 1G... : GloriousCow
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  Tim Sweeney also said Crysis would never, ever, ever run on the 360 or PS3 Tim Sweeney is an idiot : locater16
  • crysis doesn't run on the 360 or ps3 : ease one
• I think he's out to lunch on the GPU thing. Smart guy, but not a psychic. : Fred Garvin

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  I don't know how to describe Deus Ex other than the best PC game I've ever played. : pgharavi
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    I've never played Deus Ex. :/ : hoov1185
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      i never made it past liberty island : cpt_gloval
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        I see this a lot and not trying to be condecending but I don't get it. It's not really that hard or anyth... : papaskot
        • i was part of this phenomenon i tried it never got past the first level and left it alone for a year or s... : wetard
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    I wouldn't call it the best pc game, but THE best game ever! : X-GOUKI
    • I'm only the tiniest bit more partial to Final Fantasy VI and Chrono Trigger :) : pgharavi
  • yeah, it's an amazing achievement. : judge
  • That's a pretty good description. : MatzL.E.
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    misspelled planescape torment/baldur's gate 2/system shock 2 : JINKY
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      incrediwrong : Sink the Pink
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        i've been so disgusted at this post that i couldn't reply until now. i guess you meant that the best PC g... : JINKY
        • Well it's certainly the most expensive game I've ever played. : LilCrypto
    • Even though those are 3 games I've never had the patience to get through, they probably are some of the m... : kingdepork
    • planescape torment might be my favorite game of all time. Definitely top 3-5 : chrisschutz
  • Right on. : megarust32
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  well, the setting is absolutely nothing like fallout. the it is a first person rpg shooter. it's also on... : grifter
  • the : grifter
• It's not open world, so I wouldn't really compare the two. An easier comparison is perhaps Bioshock, but... : Perturbation
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  some day I'm gonna play fallout 1 and i'm actually gonna enjoy it, but right now i just can't get into it... : X-GOUKI
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    I started fallout 1 about 4 or 5 times until it clicked and then I couldn't put it down. The thing that : Horn
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      my thing was that everytime I start i go into the first town, then go to some cave or empty vault and get... : X-GOUKI
      • Are you tagging small guns? Early combat is a pain in the ass. : Horn
• I'm in with the DX love. My fav game of all time. : senseimoron
• Almost 10 years later and it's still the best game of all time on any system. Final Fantasy is for fa... : phate81
• No. : Mad Brahmin Disease
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  I wouldn't, could you get augmentations and crap in fallout? It's more like being a super-hero in the fut... : wetard
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    No but in Fallout you have perks and traits. I guess I wasn't saying they're the same game but in terms ... : Horn
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      i think the model in deus ex is a bit more simplistic it's more "are you gonna kill this guy, sneak aroun... : wetard
      • exactly, Deus Ex is a FPS with RPG elements, like System Shock 2 or Bioshock. It doesn't compare to a Fal... : derelict515
• no, Deus Ex has basically no dialog that lets you affect the game, especially not regularly : derelict515
• I'm trying to run Fallout 1 on Windows 7, anyone had problems? The color palette is messed up in the ope... : dael
• I'll just repeat everything that's already been said, If you can get past the (already dated) dated grap... : Creepin_Jeezus
• They are nothing like each other except that they are two of the best computer games ever made. : spdon
• not really, no the game Deus Ex bears the most similarity to is System Shock 2, which in turn I'd say ... : DeBurgo

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• They're improving it? Everything I've read sounds pretty awesome. : Vincent Grayson
• The beginning of the end : NukemFornever
• cha cha cha changes, : jonin
• I'm looking forward to the Game Systems panel tomorrow. Lots of details to hear on. : LoioshDwaggie
• Sounds good to me! : OverloadUT
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  sounds like a lot of simplification. there are so many weird stats and stuff now, it's gotta be overw... : Clay
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    many people will read that as dumbing the game down :( : atom519
    • it's not dumbing down, but it seems like they went a long way for nothing, if they're just going to rever... : graceofdragons
    • they're also adding other stuff like the ability to tweak the stats on an item and are changing up talent... : jonas54
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  Getting people pumped to play again who quit a long time ago. I used to be a GM from launch to right bef... : jingletard
  • Oh man. You should see the new starting zones : LoioshDwaggie
  • you have quite awhile to consider this : mwasher
  • Yet the more I hear about the changes, the less I feel like returning. : NexusOne
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  What the fuck? Half of that list is Full Circle to 1.0 the other half is shit they said they'd never do. : graceofdragons
  • blizzard's 8 year plan next 3 years prep wow for "retirement" - dumb down year 2 SC2 released, new ba... : NukemFornever
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  "We do not want to homogenize the classes" This is what everyones gear will look like now. STAM - A... : lcizzle
  • seriously, no more gear variety and balancing, it will be a clear ladder of what item is better than what... : NexusOne
  • Although I will reserve my comments until I actually see how this will work, I can't help but agree with ... : atom519
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    you forgot crit, hit, haste and the ability to alter stats on gear : grendel
    • Altering stats seems like it will be no different than enchanting or gemming. Just in a different method.... : invisible_kid
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  I remember when the only reason I was asked to attend raids was because I had Innervate. : Cihte
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    Well you could try not sucking.... :)~ : erebus
    • druids were broken : Cihte
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  Attack Power is also gone. Agility now provides 2 AP for rogues, hunters, shaman, and druids. Plate-wear... : ashkie
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    ashkie what class do you play im curious. : atom519
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      I don't really play anymore, but when I did it was a Rogue. : ashkie
      • Were you a rogue on Darkspear by any chance? : jingletard
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    Meaning it won't be a separate stat on gear. You won't find a piece of gear with +20 ap on it, instead... : Porkasaurus
    • Ah I see, sounds good to me. : ashkie
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    attack power as an item stat is likely gone - as a character stat it'll doubtlessly stay. As in, you won'... : halophoenix
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      so does this mean they'll convert the AP enchants to AGI? : Cihte
      • damned good question. I doubt they'll do a direct 1 Agi = 1AP translation because Agi affects dodge and c... : halophoenix
  • I think they mean the stat ap is gone from items : SeanJuan04
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  Seems like warlocks got a major nerf too. 3 Soul Shard limit and they now act like death knight runes.... : lcizzle
  • they also said that soul drain will make shards for longer fights. However, demons and summons no longer... : Grumbeld
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    They said no spells will require shards anymore besides the new uber spell modifier Warlocks are getting. : bRAINsick
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      So I can dump my soul bag for a bag that can actually hold other items? : scottv7
      • Yeah they don't take up slots. : invisible_kid
• It's on now, chillun! : halophoenix
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  I wish they offered a lifetime subscription model. : / : DM7
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    Shackpoll: How much would you pay for a lifetime subscription, if one were offered right now. Just for fu... : OverloadUT
    • Last sentence should be: need to play* just because I'm paying monthly : OverloadUT
    • That seems to be the sweet spot for me too. : DM7
    • I now tend to just play for a few months after the expansions come out. Level up, do heroics, maybe even ... : code-e255
    • I feel like I'd be okay with a lifetime sub except that I could never justify laying down that much money... : Vincent Grayson
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    you will not come back rustblade :( : creep
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      he wants to. you know he does. : Clay
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        ......I always wanted to play as a goblin, haha! But alas: "Time is money friends!" : DM7
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          $10 says you resubscribe. : Clay
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            >:( : DM7
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              it's ok, rustblade. i just did : Clay
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                No Clay, stay strong. : hbalce1
                • i get an itch every 6 months or so, i'll play for a month or two then stop for another 6 months : Clay
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              you know you will, when you hear how awesome deathwing is, and how great it is to be a goblin :D : AMikaboshi
              • Oh I don't doubt it, but I haven't even cleared Northrend yet, I just finished Borean Tundra and the Drag... : DM7
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  OH SHIT.. no more soul shards in yer bags!! Warlock Soul Shards are no longer in your bags. The goa... : g0nk
  • Fucking awesome. I love that they're giving the classes some new more interesting mechanics. Death Knight... : OverloadUT
  • I'm REALLY interested to see how this plays out, but right now I like where they are going. : atom519
  • woah, that's pretty neat. : mwasher
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    Also, ammo isn't consumable so Hunters don't need to worry about carrying around a crap ton of arrows any... : Grumbeld
    • Thank fucking god. Man I am loving them right now. They're actually making the game more about the gamepl... : OverloadUT
  • k im rejoining wow, when does thsi happen : .ka`boom.zZz.
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  what the fuck is this shit : electroly
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    they should just have two stats "MELEE STAT" and "CASTER STAT" and base everything on that. i mean that'... : electroly
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      You won't get Frostmourne in Icecrown. Now they've crossed the line. >:( : electroly
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        I wonder what's going to happen to the sword then? :o : DM7
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          and what the fuck is going on with those Goblin racials? they can't possibly be serious. those are insa... : electroly
          • Goblins don't mess around. >:) : DM7
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            I heard them talk about it and they said that the racials might have some level requirements, but who car... : Grumbeld
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              I hate everything they're doing with Cataclysm :( : electroly
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                Even the reimagining of old-world zones? How can you be against that? I'll be funny to watch people fig... : Grumbeld
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                  Completely against the updates of old world zones. 100% opposed. I want new content, and I like Azeroth : electroly
                  • At the very least, there should be a Caverns of Time portal to a phased version of the old Azeroth :'( : electroly
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                    The old world zones fucking suck for leveling compared to new content. This overhaul is the best thing th... : OverloadUT
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                      Agree to disagree. I'll be 100% frank, and I fully realize this makes me an asshole, but I don't give a : electroly
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                        Sounds like it's not that you don't like the old world updates, it's that you wish their time was spent d... : OverloadUT
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                          ... that's exactly what I said. I'd much prefer them spending their time elsewhere, and I like Azeroth t : electroly
                          • they are adding 7 new zones, compared to WOTLK's 9. : grendel
                  • I like the new look because I'd like to think that something has been happening to the world based upon a... : Grumbeld
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                    It may be the old continents, but the changes to them ARE new content. : LordHellMaX
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                      That doesn't make me any more excited to be running SFK and fucking Deadmines all over again. : electroly
                      • Uldum, Grim Batol, Deathwing dungeon, etc etc. looks to be a lot of new stuff opening in the old world. : .sticks.
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                    I agree, electroly. I love Azeroth the way it is and I will miss it. I feel bad for people who will neve... : invisible_kid
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                      Yeah, I'm really bummed out about it. I've never been disappointed by a Blizzard announcement before, un... : electroly
                      • My dissatisfaction started with 3.0 right before WotLK when they turned tanking into face-rolling and beg... : invisible_kid
                  • Its like opening up a book of Gone With The Wind and finding that the Civil War is over. If the original ... : cap n KRUNCH
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                  I hate this because it breaks the whole "the story progresses as you level" thing they had going. Unless ... : Evil Benius
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                    Yeah, new players are going step in and be like "WTF is going on with this game, every zone is the same b... : invisible_kid
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                      The "cracks" in the world are fairly localized, and don't seem to have much effect on the surrounding are... : FlatlineDixay
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                        Yeah I'm sure they obviously won't do anything to make it crappy or much harder for new people to level u... : invisible_kid
                        • I get the impression this expansion is kinda going along with the idea that *new* players to WoW are goin... : Vincent Grayson
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        Anyone who thought they were going to make Frostmourne a drop for players was just not living in reality. : Chod
        • This is funny on so many levels. : massdev
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      uhhh they removed 3 stats, AP, SP, and ArPen : grendel
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        and DEF and block value and MP5 : invisible_kid
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          but seriously though from any one character, its 1-2 stats being removed from a piece of gear : grendel
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            and i think block is staying in, its just being made relevant : grendel
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              they also said the stats may stay in for none clothing items that could be shared between classes, like m... : grendel
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                like rings, trinkets, necklaces, etc : grendel
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                  I'm sure things aren't as bad as I picture them in my mind, I just am seeing the negative right now. =( : invisible_kid
                  • i dunno, i am totally pumped to see where they take us! that deathwing wallpaper on the wow site is maki... : grendel
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              Yeah block is there, just not as a value, so it is converting to a straight percentage based on your char... : invisible_kid
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                Block value was a retarded mechanic with awful scaling characteristics. : FlatlineDixay
                • Yeah this one is not such a terrible thing to lose I suppose. I just hope it is still dependent on gear a... : invisible_kid
  • hahaha I so knew this post was coming :P : action wombmate
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  I am pretty shocked, they are really simplifying the game quite a bit now. Not to say i wouldnt give the... : krym3
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    It's kind of sad they're using a new villain that pretty much no one knows about, but I suppose they are ... : OverloadUT
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      and you call yourself a WoW player :/ : creep
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        I really don't actually. Is Deathwing well-known? : OverloadUT
        • Deathwing is the corrupted Aspect of Earth, formerly Neltharion the Earth Warder. He's leader of the Bla... : Kiyohime
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      Fixed: It's kind of sad they're using a new villain that pretty much everyone knows except me but I su... : Kiyohime
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        I didn't think reading lore was required to enjoy the game! : OverloadUT
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          Oh right - I forgot people don't read quest text =/ : Kiyohime
          • if questhelper can't tell me about it, I don't need to read it! (snicker) : grendel
        • Don't you think it's pretty hypocritical to complain to lore adherence and then admit you never read the ... : geedeck
        • if it's not required, why would you even complain about a "new villain" in the first place? :P : das_runt
    • I don't know any warcraft lore except there are some races. Everything is pretty much new to me, so it d... : mobab
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    Simplifying the item stats really isn't the same as "simplifying the game". The stats are such a minor pa... : FlatlineDixay
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      I don't know about that. I mean considering that one of the main complexities of the game is itemizing an... : invisible_kid
      • MP5 and AP are derived stats (WIS => MP5, and STR/AGI => AP). Adding MP5 and AP as extra stats on items w... : code-e255
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  Huntards!! Hunter Hunter's mana is GONE!!! Hunters now use focus, no longer care about intellect or... : g0nk
  • I am going to cry I am so happy : OverloadUT
  • haha damnit now i'll have to resub when it comes out : kpxkrnjc
  • jesus, that makes me want to dig out my pre-TBC 60. : biskits
  • Hmm, might have to start playin my Hunter again. : Pettytheft
  • Goddamnit! Must resist!!! : TrptJim
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    so wait, that means hunters will be sipping the tea so to speak along with rogues for those instant focus... : JuffoWup
    • and now I read again, focus, not energy, so nevermind. : JuffoWup
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  when do these changes come? Is this expansion stuff or next patch stuff? : Cihte
  • Expansion : LoioshDwaggie
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  Ummm. So what is focus? ]Haste now increases rate which you gain energy, runes, rage, and focus. : Wombat Woo
  • the new Hunter juice. : Cihte
  • Right now, it's what hunter pets use for their abilities. It makes sense to give it to the hunters too. : Grumbeld
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  Casters will finally get a Legendary item in one of the first raids of the expansion. yesssssss : atom519
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    Atiesh was caster legendary : Iwannaacura
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      True., but not many people were able to obtain it - and those that did only had it a couple months since : atom519
      • Not many people were able to obtain any legendary. : walker270
  • Didn't casters get a legendary from original WoW? : walker270
• as much as i love this game - i really need to move on. bioware needs to get their game out soon! : jedi_27
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  As much as WoW was a badass MMO, not playing it the last couple years has been the best decision of my li... : chilln
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    inf, my friend. leaving was extremely hard, but i rejoice in the decision every day. : biskits
    • I convinced my friend to try the beta. He was hesitant, due to a previous addiction to EQ. I have play... : nevlos
  • Especially because you don't get all rabble rabble when shit like this comes out. I quit a few months bac... : invisible_kid
• I like it - they made all the stats too complicated. Now just to get rid of expertise. : bolneze
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  As a brand new player, having just dinged a priest at 18 and having been working towards a holy spec, wha... : MaJeStu
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    Not much at all honestly. : atom519
    • Well that's cool. : MaJeStu
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    It means make sure you explore every bit of the beautiful world that is Azeroth before they come in and R... : invisible_kid
    • Maybe it turns into the ultimate amusement MMO with roller coaster raiding challenges for you and fun dip... : lacker
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    Damn, new player going holy spec? You're going to have a hard time leveling up on your own, buddy! Aren't... : code-e255
    • Disc, actuallly. It levels better until VE arrives at 45 : LoioshDwaggie
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  I wish they would get rid of hit. Arp can stay AP can stay.... but got fucking dammit I hate juggling my ... : godm0de
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    I agree with this! It sucks being a deep fire mage because I can't rely on talents to give me +hit. I e... : Grumbeld
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      I understand where you are coming from, but as others said it would suck if gear was eventually reduced t : atom519
      • thats why I say.. Im fine with arp, ap and crit. But really hit is just annoying. : godm0de
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        Is analyzing Excel sheets and reading up on which stat you've got to cap in which order really fun? : code-e255
        • It was for me when I played. :( : TrptJim
        • yes, I like these things. : atom519
      • "Bring on another stat..." You mean like Mastery, right? That's the new stat. : LoioshDwaggie
  • You know I am below poison hit cap on my rogue by about 17 hit and it only makes my poisons miss about .3... : bRAINsick
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  Wow this is even more simplification in the game and I am not sure I like it. Reminds me of what pissed o... : Evil Benius
  • I was surprised by the dumping of Defense but otherwise I think it's a good thing. They would add somethi... : .sticks.
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    It's better than calculating str to ap or whatever else while running to the next boss in a raid. And I k... : BlackCat9
    • It also breaks down the choices you have in gear even more. Everyone already wears a ton of the same gear... : Evil Benius
• Obsessive/compulsive stats nerds everywhere have broken out into tears : locater16
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  so are they going to respec all the items in the game? this sounds like a serious shitload of rebalancing... : GloriousCow
  • They are going to add all the stats on a particular item and apply the total to a caster or melee skill, ... : skitzo
  • They did it for spell power. They'll just have a fixed conversion rate between the obsoleted stats and t... : electroly
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    My entire set of tank gear and my entire set of DPS gear are now going to be interchangeable. Awesome, so... : invisible_kid
    • I hate to have to state the fucking obvious here, but these changes won't be going in until the expansion... : FlatlineDixay
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  I've been utterly bored with WoW for about two years, maybe more, now. This expansion rekindles my intere... : Link.
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    Though I hope Northrend content is bundled with Cataclysm or WotLK is $10 by that time, since I never bou... : Link.
    • It always sucked that they expect you to buy each expansion individually. Some other MMOs will include a... : valael
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    I'll probably resub when the expansion comes out, and then drop out again after doing some heroics. Raidi... : FlatlineDixay
    • Yeah. I loved WotLK, but I quickly lost interest after doing Naxx more than once. : valael
• Desolace is greeeeeeennnnnnnn! : lightly inclined
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  wait what : Downforce
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    Did you hear they are removing Living Bomb? ;) : invisible_kid
    • living FAIL probably has some more tweaks!! but with no spirit, no spell power, no MP5... that's pretty... : Downforce
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  One interesting note that may be significant: When they announced the classes for goblins, they showed a ... : BlackCat9
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    I figured that the 4.0 would be released fairly quickly after 3.4, say, a couple months after. The traile... : lerlerson
    • Yeah, I gotta imagine they could do some pretty awesome pre-expansion events, especially since it seems l... : Vincent Grayson
• Now if only they would announce separate rulesets for PVE and PVP. : Gnowknayme
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  Thank god Arthas and Icecrown are the end of the line for me.. : johnny rotten
  • except arthas is going to survive, can you really quit without the threat of the lich king gone for good? : goatboy
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  This sounds awesome by the way. I think they had way too complicated things, and the intense theorycraft ... : geedeck
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    Oh come on it is not like things were that complicated to begin with and at least you had some choices in... : Evil Benius
    • Are you suggesting that the entire itemization scheme isn't thoroughly cookie cutter *right now*? If anyt... : FlatlineDixay
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  As a game designer, I love all these changes. Some of these have been on my wish list for years. : tedv
  • yeah i think it's a good thing too. right now they've got all these stats that overlap each other. it's c... : Clay
  • I sometimes feel like Blizzard is reading my mind, because they get around to implementing a lot of my su... : FlatlineDixay
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    I fully agree. The only downside to the changes is that I hate the burning wasteland look. Those were alw... : itsjames
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      Ditto. They seem to have become the crates of world design. :/ : Frozen Pixel
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        Well, the world is being f'd up by a big fire-breathing dragon, what should it look like? Also, many are : action wombmate
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          I'm not really complaining aw, I'm actually excited about this expansion. I was only agreeing with itsjam... : Frozen Pixel
          • The new water rendering looks nice, too. : action wombmate
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      The game needs to have a little of everything. I enjoyed Desolace because it had a fairly unique, "ancien... : FlatlineDixay
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        I agree that the extreme variety of the original locations is pretty awesome, but I don't particularly mi... : action wombmate
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          Oh, I definitely like what they're doing. In fact I wish they'd do more with the original world instead o... : FlatlineDixay
          • It makes me think that they needed a good excuse to bring flying mounts into azeroth as the original azer... : mobab
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      Looks like green areas -> burning wasteland look. burned wasteland look -> green areas. : mobab
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        as long as they leave mulgore alone, i don't care. : Clay
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          Oh, Mulgore is fucked. : FlatlineDixay
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            nnnooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo : Clay
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              I didn't realize anybody even liked Mulgore! I thought it was clearly beaten by some of the other startin... : FlatlineDixay
              • Mulgore had the best music though. : Vincent Grayson
• Because it is too confusing, just google theory crafting and see all the fucking math they have to put in... : unsound
• I'm excited. It's basically the closest thing we will get to WoW 2. Hell, EQ2 was very similar in premise... : Frozen Pixel
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  mmo-champion has some new stuff up this morning/afternoon. Things that jumped out at me: -All races w... : Grumbeld
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    I think this "guild leveling" stuff is a horrible idea. It looks like it's EVEN MORE incentive for people... : FlatlineDixay
    • your assuming that guild will let everyone in, which doesn't happen. : unsound