Penn and Teller Take On Violent Videogames

I can't read through every single comment here to know if someone else agrees, but I'm sure someone here can agree: Penn & Teller have some great points and put up a great defense for why violent video games are good, safe and normative.

That said, I grew up with a Nintendo in the house but my parents also recognized that there were things important to my development and so I didn't vegetate in front of a TV all day. In fact, until I was 10 or so years old, I almost never played games. I spent every moment I could outside, playing with kids in the neighborhood or just riding my bike around. GI Joes and Tonka trucks in the sandbox out back. Hell, I remember running through the sprinklers (apparently I was a water baby). I don't remember killing people, though I know I played games where I had to destroy my opposition, one way or another. That said, I didn't play Doom or any of the early FPSs until I was probably 13 or so.

Interestingly enough, there is already a group that helps to control and disseminate what who plays these games. Many retail outlets have store policies that prevent them from selling games to individuals who do not meet the age requirement. And after all that, there are still parents who, last time I checked, are supposed to be raising their children. Not letting TV, games and music raise their kids. But at the end of the day, it would seem that Mom and Dad have better things to do than raise a happy family...

Moreover, I don't remember the killing when I play the games I play today, I remember the fun I had and the challenge and how accomplished I felt when my skills were put to the test and I came out on top. After playing some of the games that are on the shelves today, I think I have a better appreciation for things. Bioshock is a great example of a game that goes far beyond guns and gore. Even COD4:MW tells a great story that leaves you appreciating life and the people who protect it, even at the cost of their own lives.

I read Shack just about every day, me and buddies even "shoot" each other links from Shack and games are a fun medium for us to gather around and maybe even laugh and get to know each other better. I've never hurt anyone (or threatened them for that matter). My high school ostracized me for speaking out about their response to Columbine (pulled every admin in the building into an office with me) when I contested that spending millions of dollars on a CCTV system that WAS NOT MONITORED ACTIVELY was a waste as our school could have used that money for books and programs ( I was 15 at the time ). Maybe it was the fact that I pointed out the cameras, which took pictures once ever couple seconds, would do nothing more than provide footage for the evening news.

I mean, being confirmed in my church and being a Life Scout who was trained in CPR doesn't speak to my character. Oh yeah, did I mention that I've been building websites since I was 13, was the V.P. of Public Relations for our schools F.B.L.A. chapter, took home two silver and one bronze medal in the same F.B.L.A. competitions, and oh yeah, can't forget the scholarship, can't forget the hours I spent on spring break teaching teachers how to use some new graphic design tools, revising and helping construct curriculum. Maybe it was all of the trouble I DIDN'T get into as a kid that had them worried.

I don't have a problem with keeping violent video games out of some kids hands, I mean, we don't let someone get shot in a PG movie do we? Certainly not but by the time a kid is old enough to see PG-13 flicks, there's a good chance that violence and death can become a part of a story. And what does any good game do? Tell a story and challenge the player. If I had a son or daughter of my own, he or she wouldn't be spending time in front of a TV or PC every day and I most certainly would be apart of their lives. The parents of the Columbine shooters even remarked after the fact that while they knew about certain aspects of the lives of their kids (they were aware of the group known as the Trenchcoat Mafia), they were not very active in their life. And if they had been those kids wouldn't have kept journals detailing their plans and their parents would have recognized that the music and the game were not pushing them to shoot their classmates.

Human life is an amazing thing and it deserves the utmost respect and I think if nothing else, witnessing the grizzly side of war or the darker side of the street does nothing more than help contrast the otherwise good, happy and healthy lives that most video-game-playing kids in America lead today. Look at the kid in the show! He fired one round and didn't want to fire again. He wants to play games and have fun, not mess with something that is dangerous and takes lives.

Shame on the lawyers, politicians and peons who push their twisted moral and ethical agendas into laws instead of representing the truth and making a real difference in the lives of their own children. After all, we have TV rating systems but those don't keep your kids from watching a show with the D S L V label. Nope, that is a responsible parents action. Wake up America. Watch Penn & Teller!

As a gun owner, allowing him to hold and rest the weapon incorrectly is a pretty big deal to me.

1. He was resting the gun on its magazine, which as any shooter knows, is likely to cause ejection/feeding problems due to the magazine being pushed up higher than it normally should be.

2. He was holding the butt against what looks like his collarbone. I don't know if any of you have ever had a collarbone fracture, but your collarbone is very easy to fracture. Could a 9 year old's collarbone hold up to the recoil of an AR-15? Why would you want to find out?

To look at this kid and his family, I don't think he grew up with guns in the home. My brother and I got our first .22's at age 7, killed our first squirrels at age 8, and got shotguns at age 12. For the longest time I was terrified of my dad's double-barrel 12-gauge and his .30-30, both kicked like mules and were loud as hell. For a 9 year old kid who doesn't have any experience with this stuff, an AR-15 probably isn't the best gun to start with. I've brought teenagers to the range who could barely keep a grip on my USPc .40, 9 is too young to start on an adult's rifle.

With that said, I agree with some anti-game points in the episode. Just like pilots, training in a convincing simulated environment helps hone your skills. I don't think it makes you any less likely to commit those kinds of acts, but I sure do think it makes you better at it if/when you decide to commit those kinds of acts. That's with some accompanying firearms training, because yeah games don't teach you crap about actual weapon handling.

I have to say, after playing Red Orchestra I bet I could operate most common WW2 era German/Russian firearms on the first try, but the realism in that game is a big exception.

Interesting how they tip toed around any mention that banning guns would probally be alot more beneficial...It also points out the hypocracy of that triangle as removing guns would also work in stopping shootings in the mind of that guy.

lol damnit, I finished the first part last night and thought "I'll watch the rest later" but then the vids get pulled.

Also, why did CBS pull them? Are they part of showtime?

Go out and be a man! Oh, btw, don't kill people, animals, or hurt the environment. Also, women LOVE a man who is "financially secure" and "looks good" in a suit. <-- And people wonder why Fight Club was so popular? PLEASE society! We need a place to be men. Thank god for video games and the shack, otherwise I'd be addicted to soft porn (JC Penny models?) and Ikea catalogs.

Video has been removed. Anybody got an alternative link?

Laugh at the engineer that hates FPS Games but has a mad collection of guns.

What a shit load of fuck!

If politicians really want to put an end to the violence caused by video games, they should ban jumping puzzles.

The way they let that kid fire the AR15 looked painful as hell. Why the fuck was the "safety officer" like 20-30 feet back? You'd think they'd make sure it didn't come back and pop him in the face.

I do like the point (that is always made in this argument) that parents should arm themselves with knowledge about the games they buy their kids.

I feel sorry for the kids of shackers. They're not going to be able to get away with anything when it comes to a game they shouldn't play.

I think a lot of the "OMG the kid was holding it wrong" comments are missing the point. The point is that the kid really really didn't like shooting a REAL gun. That playing violent videogames do not turn 9 year old children into gun toting psychopaths. That in fact, real life violence is just as abhorrent to a 9 year old that played violent videogames as any other normal person.

I don't think I have ever been prouder of a report on kids and violent video games. Even though it was presented in a crass fashion, you could nearly show this in any court of law that brings up such a connection and have the case thrown out (figuratively). And I don't think I have ever seen an episode where at the end, they really got into a serious mode....almost like they were pissed that anyone would even think about games that way. I'm glad they faded out with the kid crying and apologized. True class.

I'm really disappointed in this episode. They really let Jacko slide. I know that the interview was done before he got disbarred but they could have at least mentioned his disbarment. They also let him get away with lying about the findings he mentioned. He loves to trot out the Indiana study even when he knows that it doesn't say what he claims it says.
I also would have liked them to mention that youth crime rates in the USA have been going down ever since around the time the Playstation was released. (Of course not to imply that the Playstation is the cause of that decrease but it disproves the notion of a correlation between videogames and violence)

So how many 9 year olds have gone on shooting rampages, seems like they should have picked someone older (maybe a group of teens) and tested their ability to handle and fire the weapon just from what they've learned from games.

Ability to aim and fire with accuracy would be interesting.

Anyone have any mad skills on how this can be saved locally? I know a few wives (mine) who could probably stand to see this.

Gee I wonder what their take on it will be? Will it be any different than the "recycling is bullshit" episodes? Of course it will be. Violent video games and children are so wonderful, almost as wonderful as the alcoholic gun culture much treasured in the south.

DOWN WITH FOOTBALL!!

Really, in the end it's true: before Doom there was Marilyn Manson, before that there was Rambo, before Rambo there was Fantastic Four and Dick Tracey, and before that it was Catcher in the Rye.

Whenever I hear people talk about video games causing school shootings, I want to get them in touch with my friend who got paralyzed from the waist down in Columbine and have them school them in COD4 for a while before he tells them how utterly retarded they are for suggesting that the two are in any way related.

They only stat that matters is that teen violence is down dramatically. It was as good as TV is going to get on the argument and it's entertaining to watch.