Morning Discussion

Picked up a copy of Pride and Prejudice and Zombies over the weekend, and I find myself caring much more about Elizabeth and Mr. Darcy than ever before, to the point where I want to keep reading. Not sure what that says about me, but I doubt it's good.

Amusingly, Barnes & Noble just threw it on the dedicated Jane Austen table with all of her other works. Knowing the general public, I'm sure this will lead to hilarity.

But enough about books and paper, let's see what's up in video game land.

Chris Faylor was previously a games journalist creating content at Shacknews.

From The Chatty
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    May 11, 2009 7:14 AM

    Looks like Thief 4 has been announced
    http://eidosmontreal.com/

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      May 11, 2009 7:15 AM

      What what what?!

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      May 11, 2009 7:16 AM

      Aww yeaaah!

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      May 11, 2009 7:18 AM

      sweet

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      May 11, 2009 7:18 AM

      Awesome! Sounds like it's just a title at the minute though:

      "Were in the early development stages for Thief 4, but this is an incredibly ambitious project and a very exciting one. It's too early for us to offer any specific game details, right now we are focused on recruiting the very best talent to join the core team at the studio and help us make, what we believe will be one of the most exciting games on the market."

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      May 11, 2009 7:18 AM

      That 4 doesn't even look like an "e". Awesome news though! Hopefully this one doesn't suffer from consolitis.

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        May 11, 2009 7:20 AM

        Well, to be fair, console crossovers have come a long way since the days of Deadly shadows. I know they're still not perfect all the time, but it's gotten better.

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          May 11, 2009 7:23 AM

          How can you think this? I still run into games that won't even allow me to use the mouse in the menus.

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            May 11, 2009 8:00 AM

            I guess it depends on who made the game. I was also talking more about how Deadly Shadows and Invisible War were hampered by crazy small maps and resolution issues because of the limitations on the XBox.

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          May 11, 2009 7:31 AM

          yes aside from the really tiny zones and constant loading times, Deadly Shadows was a solid thief game and on par with 2 (no where near 1)

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        May 11, 2009 7:50 AM

        it looks like a lowercase e

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          May 11, 2009 7:53 AM

          would've worked better if they made the 4 backwards, but it's a difficult thing to do.

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          May 11, 2009 7:54 AM

          I'm sorry, but no it doesn't.

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            May 11, 2009 8:00 AM

            if you take the bottom line and rotate it 45 degrees ccw it is a lower case 'e' it's not my fault you have no imagination

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      May 11, 2009 7:19 AM

      With dramatic image of numbers being used as letters!

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      May 11, 2009 7:22 AM

      [deleted]

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      May 11, 2009 7:23 AM

      I fucking hate when developers do this, they have nothing to show for the game, yet they announce it and hype it. Please, wait until there is something to give the fans before making us even more rabid.

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        May 11, 2009 7:31 AM

        Yeah, I was expecting at least a piece of concept art or a teaser trailer. My god.

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        May 11, 2009 9:11 AM

        They are recruiting heavily for this game, so they did not need to say more.

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      May 11, 2009 7:33 AM

      Jade Raymond's thief

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      May 11, 2009 7:33 AM

      Cool.

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      May 11, 2009 7:45 AM

      I have never played a thief game. I think I got it 2 in some video card package though, I just never played it.

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      May 11, 2009 7:48 AM

      $10 says they fuck it up.

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      May 11, 2009 7:50 AM

      I would like there to be nothing supernatural or steampunk just capture the feel of the demo of thief1 and run with it

      pleaaaase

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      May 11, 2009 7:55 AM

      What a horrible anti-climactic way to announce a game

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      May 11, 2009 7:59 AM

      I do not get the point. I just don't. What attracts major developers who will be making their money on the consoles, and people generally far too young to give any fuck about Thief or even know about it? Is it "buzz"? I mean it's great to have a built in core of fans who will just not shut the fuck up about your game, while also talking to a lot of new people the way Star Trek just did but they must KNOW they can't manage that. We are cranky motherfuckers, we WANT to hate their shit, FUCK them for even trying, yet they just keep coming. And I really want to know why, because I'll be damned if NMA's anger and pissyness sold any copies of Fallout 3 for Bethesda.

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        May 11, 2009 8:03 AM

        You'll be damned. People will buy it just to know what they should hate, there is only 2 or 3 regulars on the NMA forums that I know did not buy Fallout 3.

        I've been posting there for a good 6 years and I hate what they did to Fallout 3 as much as any other NMA user, but I still bought the game... so go figure.

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          May 11, 2009 8:06 AM

          [deleted]

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          May 11, 2009 8:08 AM

          No, that's not what I meant. The asshole fanbase itself is not exactly good sales in and of themselves, the idea is that they're early adopters who then go out and spread word of mouth about your product.

          But NMA's word of mouth is WAH WAH WHA FUCK THIS THING.

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            May 11, 2009 8:15 AM

            Which is why, to a significant degree, the developers need to ignore the asshole fanbase and build a game that stands on its own.

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              May 11, 2009 8:16 AM

              Quite, which begs the question in my post - if you're going to make a game that stands on its own why the fuck not just make a game in your own property? Instead of paying Interplay milions for Fallout they could have simply done a post apocalyptic RPG in a universe of their own.

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                May 11, 2009 8:24 AM

                Because they particularly like the universe on a personal level, would rather it not just die out, believe they can do it justice, and think they can make good money in the process. I'd say they were pretty successful.

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                  May 11, 2009 8:27 AM

                  I've heard this before, and I think that's a strange thing to say, this shit aint cheap, that's a lot of money to spend purely on a fancy.

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                    May 11, 2009 8:36 AM

                    That's basically the explanation they give on the making-of DVD.

                    Also, notice I mentioned making good money. While there was certainly a substantial amount of personal interest in Fallout from the developers at BethSoft, I very much doubt they would've tried to make Fallout 3 without a solid business justification. Don't forget that they didn't just license the IP, they own it lock, stock, and barrel. That will let them expand on it in the long term for no additional expense.

                    Lastly, there are benefits to buying or licensing an existing (but defunct) universe. A lot of the world development is already done. It's easier to carry over the existing flavor and style of the universe. That can save a lot of time and effort.

                    I certainly believe that there were personal desires helping to drive BethSoft's purchase and development of Fallout, but there are business benefits as well.

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                      May 11, 2009 9:06 AM

                      I think having a really solid IP, with an already setup universe is incredibly important. I imagine it would be easier for everyone involed making the game as there would be a very rigid structure already laid out, so you just have to go ahead and make it. When making a new IP i reckon there'd be a fair bit of going backwards and forwards trying to get things "right".

                      On the other hand you could just pay some scifi writer to come up with a great idea, but ideas cost alot of $$ and new ones dont have a proven track record.

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            May 11, 2009 8:20 AM

            It really depends. I don't know what weird cultural ingredients have to mix in order to make an item reviled by a small, fanatical, base appeal to a much larger one because of that revulsion. This is especially apparent in geek culture for some reason.

            I think it's because people want to belittle the nerd rage. The louder those groups complain the more interest the main stream has in checking it out. They want to be an opposing point of view. They want to mock their passion.

            We've seen it in everything from Star Wars to Coca Cola. I'm sure some marketing people have the numbers to back this all up.

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              May 11, 2009 8:22 AM

              Maybe, I'd be surprised if that's the case. I would sooner expect to see figures which showed most people who bought Fallout 3, especially those who didn't buy it on the PC, had ever heard of NMA.

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              May 11, 2009 8:27 AM

              I'm pretty positive most people who bought Fallout 3 don't give a shit about NMA (if they've even heard of it). Y'all just aren't that important. I don't think anyone went and bought Brotherhood of Steel just to spite NMA.

              Well, ok, somebody probably did, but it's not the norm.

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                May 11, 2009 8:31 AM

                I'd go further to say most people who played Fallout 1 and 2 don't give a shit or know about NMA. No site like that is a majority representation, and as it applies to Fallout 3 there's also a significant number of people who may have never played the first fallout games, but were familiar with the franchise and drawn to try the third.

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                May 11, 2009 8:43 AM

                The site itself? Of course not. My point wasn't that these "fan clubs" cause the ire of the average consumer to make them interested in the product. It's references to these fans, even a general statement like the ones made in all the Fallout 3 previews, is what gets people interested.

                They want to see what all the hoopla is about. The media hypes up the fanatics more than anything else.

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                  May 11, 2009 8:58 AM

                  No, I don't think so. The "average consumer" doesn't care about nerd rage, and the nerd rage was just an incidental mention in most of the Fallout 3-related media.

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        May 11, 2009 8:10 AM

        I totally understand where you're coming from. I mean, Deadly Shadows sold pretty poorly compared to other games Eidos makes. I guess they saw some demand somewhere and thought it would be worth it. I don't know though, while I'm happy it's getting made just because I like the series and would hate to see it disappear, there is NO WAY IN HELL that they're going to make the die hard Thief fans happy. They're doomed from the start because, just like in Fallout 3's case, no matter what they accomplish, no matter what angle they take on the story/presentation/gameplay/etc. people will bitch, and bitch hard, probably even moreso because Deadly Shadows was such a "disaster" according to the fans.

        The people in this particular studio must be gluttons for punishment considering they're also taking on Deus Ex. Jesus, I hope they don't have forums.

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      May 11, 2009 8:14 AM

      Do Thief 1 & 2 run on Vista? Can I get them online? I don't think Steam had them last time I checked.

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        May 11, 2009 10:28 AM

        Iffy to get them running in Vista, but there are some fan-made patches that get them running really well on XP and add widescreen and 32-bit color support.

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      May 11, 2009 8:24 AM

      I hope this has nothing to do with Garrett's story. It was meant as a trilogy, and it was finished with Deadly Shadows. If they decide to have a new story with Garrett's apprentice, I'd be ok with that. I'd feel even better if 2k Boston was working on it, but obviously that isn't happening. As long as they don't touch Garrett's story they can do whatever they want.

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      May 11, 2009 9:16 AM

      I really hope this is gonna work out. I have very good memories of playing the Thief games.

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      May 11, 2009 9:34 AM

      this reminds me of driv3r I just hope it's not as bad

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