Evening Reading
Some 3DR-related links:
- Ten years of Shacknews "Duke 4" posts
- A brief history of Duke Nukem Forever up to 2007, including both E3 trailers
- The DNF news archive on 3D Realms' website
- The Apogee Legacy interviews
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I wasn't really that bothered until I started reading through Breckon's "Ten years of Shacknews "Duke 4" posts." After seeing some of the recent material, and remembering the old 2001 E3 trailer, has me rather pissed off this had to happen. Even if it was one of the longest running gamer jokes out there.
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lol at this post
http://www.shacknews.com/laryn.x?id=13948773#itemanchor_13948773
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granted they don't take 13 years to make a game either that's key.
id, Valve, and Nintendo have the discipline required to finish shit. Most studios don't. The urge to rewrite your shit all the time is pretty strong with software development, if you're not disciplined enough to resist the urge you need firm deadlines to keep you in check. That's just my 2 cents, doesn't mean shit really, just throwing that out there. -
I'm pretty sure id doesn't actually do it that way. My impression is that they're very disciplined internally. In fact, I suspect that Valve is the onle company you list that might actually operate that way (and they're only in the "maybe" category). They just don't tell people their release dates and such because some slippage is always possible.
There's a world of difference between "we'll just work on stuff until we're satisfied" and "this is the plan we'll follow, we won't tell anyone outside the company what the plan in, and the plan can be tweaked with enough good reason".-
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Valve's dev cycles are of similar length to id's. The last game id worked on in-house was Doom 3, which came out in 2004 (5 years ago). Before that Quake 3 in 1999 (5 years) and before that Q2 in 1997 (2 years).
Half-Life was in development for around 2 years (1998), Half-Life 2 was out in 2004 (6 years), episode 1 in 2006, episode 2 in 2007. they also put out Portal (in development for maybe 2 or 3 years?) and L4D (in development for three or fourish). TF2 is perhaps the major exception to that since it was in development for around 10 years, but the cycle of the current game we see today was probably around 4 years, perhaps even less.
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Doesn't matter. You said "When it's done is a fucking retarded way to develop software". Blizzard employs that methodology. Like someone said, they probably have strict internal deadlines, which is likely the difference here, but nonetheless the statements to the public in reference to release schedules is the same "When it's done."
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aww, I found it.. but the original on stoofoo is gone
http://www.shacknews.com/laryn.x?id=11432927
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This really gets to me. I'm really surprised by that. I was looking forward to it, sure, but I was also looking forward to other crap that's been cancled in the past and none of that ever really phased me. This news actually makes me a bit sad. The end of an era? haha
Ah well, I played a ton of Duke3D in the old days. Online and off. I still remember the first time I shrunk and stomped my buddy for the very first time playing over 1 vs 1 over the phone line. Also, I learned building levels thanks to the Build Level Editor. I never showed anyone these levels, but I went into crazy detail maxing out the engines capability to when it comes to geometry detail, rooms above rooms, sprites as fake 3D objects, invisable portals, mirrors, triggers, animated textures. I modeled them after things I knew. My room, my appartment, my school, the Enterprise D, complete with shuttles, dock, bridge, sick bay, holodeck and turbolift. Too bad I never got into the Unreal Engine editor. I bought the game mostly for the editor back in those days, but was never able to make the leap from 2.5D to full 3D.-
When I read your posts, Marauder, I feel my life mirrors much of yours. Except for mouth gags... I have yet to reach that stage.
Duke3D got me into modding. I used to max out the engines capabilities and have crazy lighting/shadow effects. I even made a whole bunch of maps for the Starship Troopers mod, but never released them.
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George B's twitter.. http://twitter.com/georgeb3dr
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seriously. im interested to know what the fuck really happened in there. i mean holy shit even they didnt release duke2 because of feature creep initially surely they realized at some point that in the time theyve been making one game they could have probably made 3. hell make duke2 and then release duke3 as a multiplayer only with slightly updated tech like id did. if anything itll produce new engines and opportunities for licensing moneys
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This site has a list of things that took less time than the development of the game, as well as stats on what occurred during its development:
http://duke.a-13.net/
Apparently WWII and the development of the A-Bomb took less time than DNF o_0
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http://crackle.com/c/Jace_Hall/Jace_Hall_Ep_1_Duke_Nukem_Forever_SNEAK_PEEK_/2298717
fast forward to the last 2/3rds iirc...
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I really don't know if I should laugh or cry, it's very easy to just point the finger and pull the Nelson "haha!" but it's a real shame to see anyone lose their job or see a game not come out.
It could have had potential to be at least fun and for some retarded reason I thought it was nearly done, I don't know why but I just did.
3DRealms are still living in the late 90's I think, that's the last time they actually released software - even their web page just reminds me of the shareware era. -
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The Shack story made it to the front page of digg. http://digg.com/gaming_news/Duke_Nukem_Developer_3D_Realms_Shuts_Down
This was all a plot to make GameFly advertising revenue. -
Why should we salute them? For ruining themselves and leaving diehard Duke fans (of whom I am one of) hanging for thirteen years? Thirteen. Fucking. Years. I understand that they were passionate about Duke4 being perfect, but passion alone won't pay the employees. Now thanks to their bad judgment over thirteen years, their employees are out of work and the Duke Nukem franchise is officially dead.
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Joe Siegler posted on 3d forums, he didn't know yesterday :(
http://forums.3drealms.com/vb/showpost.php?p=867590&postcount=136 -
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Such a shame. I mean, bitch all you like about how long it was going to take the slow motherfuckers, but Duke3d had gameplay and level design that only a couple of games have been able to match since its release, and that should've been reason enough to look forward to DNF... at least passively.
Oh well. So much for my dreams of shrink-raying dognose in full 3d. -
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here you go. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duke_Nukem_Forever
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this actually made me feel badly tonight.
i mean, i loved duke 3d and respected what 3drealms did prior to that, but i never felt like i was incredibly invested in Duke Forever.
BUT, once I heard they were done, it was like a part of my youth had been ripped away. They had always been there, and Duke Forever had always been in the background, a dependable joke, and prospect, to look forward to and to poke fun at over the years.
Duke Nukem Forever has been around throughout my college, post college, marriage, homeownership, 30-something years. It's just...always been there.
And now it's not. That simple.
It sucks, and I feel shitty. I don't care if it was going to take them another two years; I would have been there :/-
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well, most games take two to four years, maybe even six if it's an insanely meticulous company like Blizzard or Nintendo.
Waiting this long, I've sort of become accustomed to DNF always just being in the background, a consistent steady dependable white noise behind the foreground of gaming. It reminded me of what was once, and what was coming up.
It was a nostalgia injection as well as a good old dependable eye-roll source every so often.
I figured it would come out at some point. I didn't even care how good the game was; I just felt like it should come out.
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3DR's fucked up workflow as posted by mourningstar on the FP: http://www.shacknews.com/laryn.x?id=19855607#itemanchor_19855607
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i agree.
and don't get me wrong: i love the cowboy approach of the very early PC games, and the renegade approach of the classics like duke3d, doom, lucasarts adventures...i LOVE those games and they bring me back to a simple wonderful time
but it's just not feasible to make a full-scale PC / console title with that mentality in 2009, or even 2004-
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Yea, I'm conflicted with these type of games too. It borrows heavily from what works on the consoles, and then try to make it work the same way on the PC, and it feels diluted and as if it's more an on-rails experience than a completely interactive experience.
However, I did have a lot of fun with the Wolverine game, as controlled as it was. That's a rare exception to the rule, it seems.
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here it is http://www.shacknews.com/featuredarticle.x?id=720&page=2
Was so excited when it came out too :(
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I believe the pseudo-defunct Interplay still owns the IP, and based on what I've seen posted here and there - THQ isn't letting Volition go anywhere near it which is a damn shame. Consoles need a good space combat sim. Drop in some decent graphics and some Havok or Karma physics (IN SPACE!!) + co-op campaign, squad commands, VOIP, and some inventive MP game modes - so many possibilities.
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I loved the Anachronox trailer - never played the game, but it sure looked like a cool concept.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=za9T9XbOgrw&feature=PlayList&p=FA51B408B6BBD57E&index=0
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there's always duke2.exe
http://www.3drealms.com/duke2/index.html -
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Yeah, it's fucking terrible. I don't care about DNF, but I feel absolutely awful for anyone that was still there and believed in the project. I mean, I'm sure they had some hardcore turnover rates with that kind of project cycle but surely someone there stayed for a long time thinking that "we're getting so close."
And on top of that, every developer and artist in the industry is advised against changing jobs in the middle of a project so there's a lot of pressure when doing that. That said, sometimes a developer/artist just needs to know when to bail. -
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2 things, hey i got the 4th most digged comment!
http://digg.com/gaming_news/Duke_Nukem_Developer_3D_Realms_Shuts_Down
and they should license me dukeforever to make it for the iphone, ill use the wolf3d engine lol -
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http://dognose.livejournal.com/
anyone else cry? -
This still isn't quite adding up:
- All reports say 3DR self funded the project. Yet apparently they were surprised by the lack of cash in the bank account?
- "Very reliable source" says Apogee also affected... update, Apogee not affected. How reliable is said source?
- Three weeks ago, the company was catering food for the employees... guess after 12 years of apparently reasonable financial management, the owners just went crazy and spent all they had left?
- Unless George was simply lying, his various recent updates/postings have all but made it clear it was almost finished.
- But we've all heard the almost finished thing from them before.
- Joe S. confirms, "It's true."
Lastly, it certainly appeared to be truly almost done, this simply smells too suspicious...-
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I don't see how you can draw a conclusion that they had no problems for 12 years and this was 'sudden'.
There's only a handful of people who knew the true financial situation and certainly none of us on the outside have any idea exactly how much or how that money was distributed.
They certainly seemed to be making progress lately, but it could have been a case of racing against a ticking clock the upper management knew was coming -
Why, maybe three people actually knew how much 3dr had in cash left. The CEO, a possible VP, and the accountant.
Those three could have lied through their teeth to keep people there and finish stuff and keep working hard instead of looking for new jobs and letting their work suffer. The three went looking for new funding but when the funding dried up, the company went poof!
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It's amazingly easy to waste money on a game. And when your desire and drive is to make the best first person shooter ever, you can bet that it's possible to throw it all away.
In all likelihood the owners were looking for a way to get outside funding so DNF could be completed and only closed the doors when they ran out of options.
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What? WHAT? hard to believe they could fuck up all their funds?
besides some Max Payne cash they've been living off Duke nukem funds for a fucking long time, an incredible time, infact it fucking blows my mind they lasted this long, they must've had some damn good reserves of cash, incredible financial management (and or paid employees like garbage) or something - because even the biggest companies like Valve, Epic, id seem to need to throw a game out every 3 or 4 years.
10 or 11 YEARS man - that's incredible.
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The E3 2001 trailer is still so great: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDlB2P1leRM
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American Eat Shit And Die:
A long, long time ago
I can still remember how those bastards
They shot up my ride
And I knew if I had my chance
That I could make those pig-cops dance
And maybe I'd be happy for a while
But news in May, it made me shiver
3D Realms they'd never deliver
Duke right to my doorstep,
Couldn't mighty foot one more step
I can't remember if I cried when I
Saw that Twitter post online
But something touched me deep inside
The day the studio died
So bye, bye Mr. Duke Nukem guy
Maybe later we'll see strippers,
But now I can just sigh
They left the code and kissed 3D Realms goodbye
Sayin' nothing but "Eat shit and die"
Nothing but "Eat shit and die"
Did you use the RPGs
Or were you a fan of rays of freeze
Did the Dukester tell you so
Oh, did you believe in D-Wango
Could tripmines save your mortal soul
Or was it that girl dancin' at the pooooole
Well I know that you'd tear off my head
Shit down my neck and I'd be dead
You'd get some on your shoes
But you've got the HoloDuke, whoaaahh
I was a lonely teenage broncin' buck
With an acne problem and an urge to fuck
But I knew I was out of luck
The day the studio died
I was singin' bye, bye Mr. Duke Nukem guy
Maybe later we'll see strippers,
But now I can just sigh
They left the code and kissed 3D Realms goodbye
Sayin' nothing but "Eat shit and die"
Nothing but "Eat shit and die"
For thirteen years, they'd been on their own
And the game became a universal joke
But that's not how it used to be
When the booth babes hailed to the king, baby
And we saw that footage at E3
And the screenshots that came from Georgie Beeeee
Oh but, while the babes were looking down
3D Realms, they had to shut down
The project was adjourned
No gone-gold was returned
And while Prey came out, it got good marks
The hardcore fans waited with their hearts
And they sang dirges in the dark
The day the studio died
They were singin' bye, bye Mr. Duke Nukem guy
Maybe later we'll see strippers,
But now we can just sigh
They left the code and kissed 3D Realms goodbye
Sayin' nothing but "Eat shit and die"
Nothing but "Eat shit and die"
Helter skelter, in a strip-bar swelter
The blue key's down in the fallout shelter
Hit that switch, then get the jetpack
Then go and kick through a wall of glass
Be sure to tell your friends in class
How you were playing and he said "Your face, your ass"
Well, I'm here to kick ass and chew gum
While the MIDI music starts to hum
We would've started to dance
But we never got the chance
When the gamers tried to call it fake
3D Realms refused to break
Do you recall, for Nukem's sake
The day, the studio died
They were singin' bye, bye Mr. Duke Nukem guy
Maybe later we'll see strippers,
But now we can just sigh
They left the code and kissed 3D Realms goodbye
Sayin' nothing but "Eat shit and die"
Nothing but "Eat shit and die"
Oh but while we're all here in one place
Remember those levels set in space?
Those ruled, but never again
Oh Duke be nimble, Duke be quick
Use those steroids, they'll do the trick
But watch out for the pipebombs in the end
Oh and while the strippers were on the stage
Some moms were having fits of rage
No cheat code born in hell
Could break that matron's spell
Oh but when the sun went down and it became night
You'd creep downstairs, stay out of sight
And play Duke 3D, but what a fright
The day the studio died
Now just start singin' bye, bye Mr. Duke Nukem guy
Maybe later we'll see strippers,
But now we can just sigh
They left the code and kissed 3D Realms goodbye
Sayin' nothing but "Eat shit and die"
Nothing but "Eat shit and die"
I met a girl who sang the blues
Gave her some cash, she showed me her boobs
"Shake it, baby," that's what I'd say
I went down to the Shugashack
When I saw the article, I cracked
Thinking about the game I wouldn't play
And in the streets, the gamers screamed
The trolls all trolled, and the haters beamed
But not a word was spoken
My ripper gun was broken
And the one man I admired most
Just went "sniff j00" and made a sad post
So I caught the last train for the coast
The day the studio died
So bye, bye Mr. Duke Nukem guy
Maybe later we'll see strippers,
But now we can just sigh
They left the code and kissed 3D Realms goodbye
Sayin' nothing but "Eat shit and die"
Nothing but "Eat shit and die"
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A fascinating story!
http://gamingisstupid.com/2009/05/06/the-chair-story-revival/-
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So it's not just me? What the fuck is it implying?!
3DRealms is just an engine factory for Epic and do all their tech work?
There's 2 DNF's? The 'fake' one and the 'real' one?
DNF was never meant to come out in the first place?
DNF was meant to come out but it's going to be so thoroughly developed that it's going to be incredible, no matter what?
My ADD is kicking in hard but I couldn't follow, I think we all just got trolled.
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Charlie linking to the story, I think this clears up if it's true or not.
http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3131879&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=8#post360416143
"This seems like a suitable time to repost my 100% historically accurate account of what REALLY happened to DNF."
All it's missing is the no honest! exclamation mark. -
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http://www.techhotdish.com/2009/05/06/joe-sieglger-from-3d-realms-part-1-of-2-thdb06/ Most. Annoying. Host. Ever.
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http://www.shacknews.com/search.x?type=comments&terms=troll&cs_user=melt_core&cs_parentauthor=&s_type=all
Once in seven years, that's hardly "anybody"... I'm more often on the defending end of the troll accusations...
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List of things that have happened during the time DNF has been in development: http://duke.a-13.net/
Sorry if it's been posted already today, shacksearch gave me nothing. -
Time to release it, you've made world press:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/8037688.stm
GO! -
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Apogee still exists and has all the rights. In fact the more I look at it, I wonder if they knew it was coming or atleast saw it as a possiblity and started up Apogee just to get out from this mess.
I think in a few years we will see a new Duke FPS from Apogee, just from a third party developer. Just it won't be Duke Nukem Forever.
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