Interview: Valve's Robin Walker on Item Drops and the Future of Team Fortress 2
by Nick Breckon, Apr 29, 2009 3:14pm PDTThe latest patch to Team Fortress 2 introduced some very mysterious mechanics--primarily, the addition of a 50-slot "backpack" to store items, and a new slot for headgear to accompany the traditional unlockables.
Naturally, the steathily-added features set off a storm of speculation amongst the fan community. Just how far is Valve going with these World of Warcraft-esque changes? When can I buy an epic mount for my Heavy?
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In reality, the hats will be purely cosmetic in nature--at least initially. Valve's Robin Walker told us that while the TF2 team is interested in exploring more radical, RPG-style mechanics, the plan is to slowly introduce these new elements in order to "measure the effect of each change, both on the game and on the community."
"The primary change here is simply the decoupling of achievements and unlockables, which is the source of most of the negative feedback we've received around previous class packs," said Walker. "It'll provide multiple ways for players to get items, with a plan to add more over time."
Read on for our full interview with Walker, who answers several of our heady questions--including when to expect the new items, and where TF2 might be headed next.
Shack: Are the head-slot items being added before the Sniper update?
Robin Walker: The plan is for the head-slot items to be out before the Sniper pack is out, but if we don't get them done in time they'll just be bundled into the pack.
Shack: How will these items work on a basic level? Will they randomly drop from players that people kill?
Robin Walker: We're going to try a few different things, but the first ones won't manifest themselves inside the game itself, because it'd allow servers to cheat the system.
Shack: Will these items carry bonuses that impact gameplay?
Robin Walker: Right now they're all cosmetic only, but it's obviously more interesting if they become more than that, so we're still thinking about that. Shipping them without gameplay changes seems like a good way to tackle the first problem, which is to ensure we don't break our silhouette based class identification. It also starts us on another path that we're interested in, which is allowing players to have some control over their appearance.
Shack: So would you say that you're still considering whether to add extra items/weapons that impact the game beyond cosmetic variation?
Robin Walker: We plan to do more than just cosmetic items, but we like to go one step at a time to be able to measure the effect of each change, both on the game and on the community.
Shack: Any plans for consumable items? And will these items be tied to each class, or carried over to all of your classes?
Robin Walker: The short answer is: possibly. Part of the reason we want to do this kind of design work in TF2 is because it's a product in which players send us a ton of great feedback. This means we'll quickly find out if we're screwing up, which is an amazingly useful thing when we want to try new things.
Shack: Should we expect to see more item slots--chest, feet, elbows--added in the future?
Robin Walker: See the "possibly" answer above.
Shack: Will players be able to trade these items?
Robin Walker: This is a good example of the kind of decision we'll be listening to the players around. If it's something they all want to do, then yep, you can expect us to do it.
Shack: Some users are concerned that you can permanently delete hard-won items from your backpack. Should they be? How is that system intended to work?
Robin Walker: Not really. We put in some strong wording in the update to discourage them from doing it for now, but as soon as the next update ships they'll be able to find any item, including ones they've deleted in the past. The reason we shipped it in the last update, even though there was no real reason at all to use it, was to get some real world testing. So thanks to the 270 people who went ahead and deleted items! In addition, it gave our support team some warmup practice in handling the inevitable customer issues resulting from this kind of system.
Shack: Will the backpack/head items be part of a separate game mode, or is this going to be patched into TF2 proper?
Robin Walker: It'll be in TF2 proper. The primary change here is simply the decoupling of achievements and unlockables, which is the source of most of the negative feedback we've received around previous class packs. The head-slot items are all cosmetic at this point, so they haven't resulted in any significant balance issues in any of our existing game modes.
Shack: Are there plans for any kind of "vanilla" game mode to filter out the new items for players that just want to play a quick match of the core game?
Robin Walker: Almost all the requests we've received in this area have come from competitive players. While we don't think this update adds any new issues for competitive play, we are aware of the desire for leagues to control what their players are using, so we're thinking about how we can help them do that. Still, we're optimistic as ever. We believe that the more interesting & viable choices available to competitive players, the more depth there is for them to use to their advantage. It'd be a shame if they're prevented from exploring the strategic possibilities that the new items add.
Shack: Plenty of players love the achievements/unlockables, but the "grind" has intimidated others who thought of TF2 as a "pick-up-and-play" experience. Do you sympathize with the latter group?
Robin Walker: The feedback from these kinds of players, in addition to a variety of other players, has been one of the drivers behind this update. It'll provide multiple ways for players to get items, with a plan to add more over time. Some players want to use their skill to succeed, others want to be more casual. Our goal is to ensure that they all get to have some fun finding items and making some choices about which ones fit their playing style.
Shack: On an unrelated note, are the "Meet the" videos finished, or should we expect the rest?
Robin Walker: Nope, we're not done yet. There's still the Pyro, Medic, and Spy to go. We've saved the best for last!
Shack: Can you talk about the TF2 comics at all? Are those going to be entirely web-based? Free? Story-driven or short strips?
Robin Walker: We're not ready to talk about them yet, sorry.
Shack: Thanks Robin.
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Comments
Step 1: Lets make a mundane FPS with cartoons.
Step 2: Let us copy every other FPS with unlocks (Call of Duty 4).
Step 3: Oh achievements, how could we forget!?
Future Step 4: Let us make this an RPG where you have to get drops from dead bodies.
Future Step 5: Let us have a lobby where people can scream "WTS Piss Jars"
So on and so forth...Let us just keep destroying what the game once was...Oh, and fans wait till we ruin Left 4 Dead you'll be in for a treat when the smokers drop candy.
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I for one appreciate that Valve is giving us new content and new game play. You'd think more people would appreciate it. Nothing they've done so far has broken the game. Sure, if you played it back when it had first come out, then came back and pulled it up today, you'd have a little catching up to do.
I highly doubt that these updates will break the game, and if they do then I will bake myself a nice cake and eat it thinking about how nice the game used to be.
Either way, I win.
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WTF?
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Valve guys who are reading this, just ignore the haters till people actually have something to put their hands on. They were probably pissed off when Henry J Ford took cranks off the front of cars and piss on Charles Kettering's name. :shrug:
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Improve the community-building infrastructure behind the game, add sophisticated ranking and matching, and make sure to release the occasional new great map/game mode.
Forget all this other crap please. Last thing I want to do in a pick-up-and-play FPS is unlock shit. Competitive players were right about Quake 3 and made Quake LIve better, they were right about 1.6 vs Source, and they are right about TF2.
Fuck, if nothing else if you want to mess around with god-awful mechanics then create a new game that is at least designed to take advantage of it rather than diluting TF2.
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STOP ADDING FUN. I DON'T LIKE FUN.
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Orange box is still the best deal ever. One of my favorite games (Portal) and a great multiplayer game that Valve continually supports with updates. Whatever they do, I am gonna love it.
Also, for the "Head" slot stuff, maybe it will be hats, maybe not. Could be new faces. I will reserve judgement until I see it.
I'm glad that they're experimenting with new gameplay ideas and that they seem to be keeping an open ear to fan reactions. If I wanted to play every other FPS I'd... play any other FPS.
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I bet whatever they do will (maybe with a few hiccups) work wonderfully, but I just need more awesome maps.
(and the Solly pack now!)
Also, that interview confirmed one thing for us once and for all: Meet the Pyro is coming a DISTANT LAST on the release schedule. It's gonna be epic.
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Super Mario Bros is not an RPG because you get to play as Mario. Sure you are role playing as Mario, but the game is not an RPG.
Random weapon drops does not make a game an RPG. Most RPGs have them (think back to something like FF2 or CT or whatever), but not all.
An RPG really stands out because it has a story connected to a character that you 'play' as. I love TF2 but there is no story to the game or ultimate ending for the (lack of ) story. RPG are also classified as suck based on the battle system. Zelda games aren't considered RPG, there are action or adventure games.
Leveling up weapons and random drops do not make an RPG.
Ok rant done.
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So what items do folks reackon would suit each class from a cosmetic point of view?
This is my thoughts and they will be crap as ive given about 5 seconds of thought for each one:
Scout: Slick 60's pretty boy hair (i.e no cap)
Soldier: Commando Beret.
Pyro: Errr..Different helmet of some sort? Maybe one that lets us see the face within perhaps.
Demoman: The 'fro clearly.
Heavy: Furry Russian cap
Engy: Noise mufflers w/ Pencil on the ear
Medic: Golden Monocle
Sniper: Classic Aussie Cork hat
Spy: Half face costume mask
Told you they wound be crap.
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Crits were his Jar Jar Binks, and this is his Vader "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO"
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Why is everybody who already doesn't like the game upset? I thought you already don't like the game. This should make you feel good about you're decision to not like the game.
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I'm not against the idea of grinding in shooters but I won't play those games if I feel I need to invest x hours of "grinding" to be competitive.
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It would be different if the characters weren't already so great and iconic in their appearance, giving them all hats which will almost certainly end up looking absolutely stupid will ruin this.
This is worse than turning it into an RPG (which they aren't). This is turning it into Gunbound.
You know there's going to be some ugly completely out of place looking item for every class, and half the people in the game will pick it. The game is going to go from its tasteful illustrative rendering style to goofy Battlefield Heroes crap.
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I think it will be awesome fun, and I salute Valve continuing to ad content to a game I bought over 18 months ago. I have a hard time thinking of any other game company that does this (without charging for an expansion back, or DLC)
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But now they are going to have a method that ISN'T achievements and people are whining? Make up your mind. I'm all for it.
Levels for weapons, extra gear? Love it. Bring it on Valve!
Everyone loves to customise the character they play.
Also I'm not a fan of getting unlocks with achievements. I didn't even farm them I went on a server that unlocks them all. If that's your term of cheating yes than I cheated but I cba because seriously this is a damn shooter (and it's the damn best one I've ever played too) and when I want to use a natasha because scouts are pissing me off I shouldn't need to eat 100 sandviches first. You catch my drift.
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