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Mythic: Warhammer Online Needs to Succeed for the Good of the Industry
by Chris Faylor, Sep 02, 2008 11:29am PDTAs the September 18 launch of Mythic Entertainment's PC MMO Warhammer Online: Age of Reckoning draws near, studio VP Mark Jacobs has commented that the game needs to succeed or else "it's not going to be good for the industry."
"We need to show the world that it's not just Blizzard who can make a great game, and that the audience is absolutely willing to try new things and to play a game other than WoW," Jacobs explained to MTV Multiplayer.
"If we don't succeed with EA behind us, the Warhammer IP behind us, with one of the most experienced teams in the industry, that's not going to be good for the industry."
The executive also noted his previous hope that Funcom's recent PC MMO Age of Conan would have had more of an impact against Blizzard's World of Warcraft (PC).
"At some level I wanted Conan to succeed because for the last few years people have been saying it's all Blizzard and nobody else can do it," Jacobs stated. "'Only Blizzard can get those kind of numbers,' and so far they've been right. But now it's our turn."
Comments
WOW has like 9m player's but guess what over half of them are bot's and gold farmer's and there is roughtly only 3-4m normal wow players.
War money and gear is not such a massive deal and so won't have the number of gold farmers and bots to hit WOW number's.
It make's me laugh how people clame WOW is a Mega hit with 9m odd people when around 5m of them are bots run by maybe 10.000 chinese farmers.
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Grudge on Ironbreakers is kind of like rage, except the Ironbreaker gets two targets - a defensive target and an offensive target, both can be changed at any time. If HE gets hit, he gains 5 grudge. If his defensive target gets hit, he gains 10 grudge...so the Ironbreaker is actually more effective in defensive positions. Not to mention he can pair up with someone and take half of any threat generated by them and half of any damage done to them.
Goblin Shamans have to bounce back and forth between casting damage and healing spells. The more damage they do, the better their heals are, the more healing they do, the better their damage is. Disciples of Khaine are similar, they gain soul essence by doing melee damage, and use that to cast heals over time, but they are a little different.
Witch Hunters gain "Accusations", to fling condemnations and stuff, it's pretty sweet.
All this, without mentioning the awesome PvP system they have in place. I find it hard to believe that any player in WAR is NOT contributing to the war effort. If you are questing solo - you're helping the war effort...if you are in a massive guild sieging a keep, you are helping the war effort too. To NOT help the war effort you would have to log on and sit still in a guarded city or something. Everybody is making a difference, and they can do it from day one. It doesn't take a few weeks of grinding or questing to get your phat loot and all the skills you need to fight. In WAR you can make a new character and immediately go to the war front and fight, and actually gain levels doing so. You won't be ganked, since high level players in amazing gear can't even come into the area you're fighting in. It'll be a fair fight with other players equally skilled and geared up and statted as you are. Also even at this early level you aren't just gaining arbitrary "marks" or "honor", you are affecting the war effort through trickle down. Your actions here trickle all the way down to T4 Sieges, and actually affect what's going on there. You can hit the level cap without ever killing a mob or waiting for a loot drop if you wanted to.
It's like they took WoW and combined it with World War 2 Online or something.
To be competitive I don't need to log on for 6 hours a night three nights a week. I can log on for an hour of RvR and kick some ass on the front. I like that. WAR is taking a lot of good things from WoW - because WoW progressed the genre very far. But WAR is also taking a lot of steps towards a less "worklike" atmosphere for the MMO genre. If you just want to log on and have fun, and actually make a difference doing so, it'll probably be easier to do so in WAR than WoW.
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The major difference is, this game is concentrated on RVR / PVP.
When are we going to see a revolutionary MMORPG again?
Ultima online was awesome. If that game stayed true to its features from early release, heck, i'd still be playing it. That game made you feel like you were living the game.
All that hard work to save up for a tower deed, and a red came along and snapped it up before you were able to place it... ouch!
Everquest was the result of a revolution from UO. Then came copy cats to EQ. (WoW, WAR) But no-one has created an improved UO... why?
IMO the leveling system is old, they need to bring back a skills based system much like UO / Oblivion.
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This is categorically false. All of the cited reasons are exactly the last reasons a game should succeed. A game should succeed because people like it. If what I just said ever becomes incorrect then we are lost as a creative industry.
The concern he has is understandable though. He believes that Blizzard has "locked" out a market simply because the last dozen big games didn't make a dent in the leader's position. But does anyone really feel those games are better? If the answer is no, then there is no complaint to be made. If the answer is yes, then I'd like to believe people would be playing them as much.
Historically...this is exactly what happened with Everquest. People (business people) said the market was locked down, it was saturated, there was no more room, etc, etc. Games came out and got crushed by Everquest repeatedly. It was unassailable. This was all false of course because when WoW came out Everquest was passed almost over night (within the timescale of markets).
I haven't played the Warhammer game yet and I'll of course try it out, but the fact that this exec would say this has me worried. It says that he doesn't understand which variables he should be competing with. Figuratively - it suggests that he wants to argue louder instead of smarter.
I like WoW, but honestly it's getting old. The problem is, I don't want to switch to another game that is more or less just like it, but not as good. Why not just make something different and avoid the red ocean all together?
Check out this quote...
"Life is pretty simple: You do some stuff. Most fails. Some works. You do more of what works. If it works big, others quickly copy it. Then you do something else. The trick is the doing something else. " - Leonardo da Vinci
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What was mythic thinking when it made the graphic requirements low? This game was in Dev since 2004, before WoW. Did Mythic want to compete for the then-untapped userbase that went to WoW upon its release?
note: Age of Conan's high graphical requirements didnt stop 1 million people from buying the game.
note: Everquest 2 was released the same year that mythic began development on Warhammer online.
Even with incorporating fantastic gameplay and improving upon WoW, mythic may have limited their audience (to fanboys) and shot themselves in the foot by making an ugly-looking game.
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The somewhat sensationalist headline doesn't help either, Faylor :P
Mythic: We need someone to play something other than WoW, EVE, PotBS, LotrO, Guild Wars, AoC, and...err, nevermind.
Jade Raymond: In Assassin's Creed, you can climb shit, this will singlehandedly change the gaming industry forever (if we make a lot of money, cuz, we couldn't actually finish Assassin's Creed >_< sorry about the ending, ran outta money and beta.)
Grand Theft Auto IV reviews copy and pasted on every game website: You have a CELL PHONE, and it uses the Euphoria engine, 10/10, best game since JESUS arrived.
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Please don't try to explain them as a tabletop wargame, they are toys to paint and display.
If WAR comes out to medicore or bad reviews, Mythic has nobody to blame but themselves. They've let the industry and themselves down, and just helped prove that they're like all the other failed MMO devs who didn't have what it takes.
If WAR comes out to awesome reviews, and still fails, then yes, you can blame the fan base. I was pretty mad when Deus Ex failed too. But at least they've proven that good MMOs can be made.
Waiting for some reviews of the final product here. The fans and the industry owe Mythic nothing if they can't actually produce a good game.
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If I want to play Warhammer Online I'll play it, period. That's always been the rule: I don't need anyone making me feel guilty that I help ruin the industry because I didn't purchase a game over another based on a VP's random mouth-spasm, You can't ruin an industry that's thriving like never before. If you look at the Eastern market does anyone really think that it's not going to be "good" for that industry if WHO doesn't succeed? So what he's really talking about is the western industry's gamer-respect.
Whatever that means: I bought DAoC on release because it pitched a unique concept that other games at the time didn't have: medieval-themed warfare. I bought EQ because it pitched a completely open fantasy world with lots of places to explore. I bought WoW because of Blizzard's unbelievable track-record (I was a fan since Starcraft) and was blown away by how it totally eclipsed anything and everything out there in terms of actual game-play.
So I'm asking myself now: why play Warhammer Online? Everything I've read about it and seen just makes it seem like a mix between WoW and DAoC. It's not an original game-world which constricts gameplay to conform with the Warhammer rules. Like any game forced to work under a specific IP this will happen: they are forced to focus so much on selling Warhammer that gameplay suffers.
Warhammer will not be a deus ex machina for the MMO genre like World of Warcraft was and still is right now but hopefully it can be a contender that can slowly grow in size as a viable alternative. Hell, there are plenty of things that the genre can still improve upon, just look at the WoW general forums any day at any time.
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if the best all these mmos can offer after a while is grinding elite dragons then they can blow me.
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It's absolutely astonishing how far this game has come. Each patch thus far has been a giant leap towards greatness, fixing and improving every aspect of the game when needed. There is very little that WAR hasn't done right, and it's still in beta.
I'm not a fanboy. But who can honestly go back and play WoW after playing WAR?
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What kind of idiot says "if my game fails, there's something wrong with the industry" ? Actually, don't answer that.
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DAOC was a medium player briefly at it's highest , never coming close to EQ1 , and then went back down in sub numbers and has been a very minor player all this time and I think it just aggravated Jacobs that in the overall scheme of things so far Mythic hasn't really been important
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I haven't played Warhammer but I can tell you from past experience that this game will be one of the best in terms of customer support. Mythic never failed to release a helpful or fair patch in DAoC and I doubt they would mess it up now. Of course EA is in this now, which was a bad move. But if Warhammer fails it will be because of all the WoW fanboys dissing it just because there's no naked night elves....uh on second thought they can't whine about that either.
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I can understand if you've worked on it, I can understand if your rent depends upon it, but fighting about whether a product is better than an other, particularly when its not even released seems foolish and desperate.
Variety is the spice of life, whether WAR wins or flops at least we will all be richer for the chance to experience something different.
Over the last 20 years of gaming there have been way more flops than wins from a gamers point of view. Yet despite that dubious track record we keep coming back with our niave expectations and most importantly our cash.
Personally I don't subscribe to the concept of keep giving us money and we will keep making games regardless of quality. The arrangement the developers make to secure funding covers that duty of care.
When a product goes gold, the devs and all the support structure involved to launch that product have given it a greenlight in terms of release. What this means to date is that the standard for releasing a product in this industry is radically inconsistent depending on whose name is on the box.
Now Jacobs here has said considering the names on our box and the people that have funded and greenlit this baby we are in clover. This one statement scares me more than anything about the quality of this product.
You cannot hold the customer accountable for the quality of your product, shame on you numbnuts.
Lastly as a gamer I believe we have carried the industry for over 20 years of trial and error and now the free passes are over gentlemen. Pull your finger out and start delivering on what you are so keen to sell, yet seledom produce. Integrity needs to mean something and even dogs have the sense to not shit where they eat...
That's the whole part he doesn't understand. WoW addicts (and there are millions of them) WON'T try anything else. I've tried for a year to get my friends (some real, some online) to try a different game. They flat out refuse. So no matter how good WAR is there is a huge WoW populace that won't even give it a bored glance.
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I'm also still highly skeptical that this game is ready for prime time. I would be far more comfortable if it had like another month of open beta but hey maybe come the 7th I'll find this amazing polished game that only needs small tweaks that can be implemented before launch. if not, then its their own fault for pushing a product ready for prime time. blizzard let WoW tumble in the rock polisher for so damn long it came out with a mirror surface - thats how you get people, give them a damn great product and suck their asses in to the world.
Now I know it's not logical, but the disappointment of AoC has me adapting a "wait & see" attitude towards Warhammer. If a lot of people are saying positive things about War after its release I will probably try it, however the timing of this release probably couldn't be worse IMO. They'll have, at the very most, 3 months before Blizzard releases Wrath and that will likely kill all the hype from Warhammer. I've never played Warhammer, so I have no idea about its quality besides the random posts here on the Shack, which are mostly positive for now..but I kinda remember the comments about AoC being mostly positive before its release. One thing I know for sure is, Wrath is fucking solid and makes the previous WoW expansion look like amateur work in comparison...so the guys behind Warhammer have their work cut out for them. And honestly, I hope they succeed...because a little competition never hurt anyone.
If you're measuring it in terms of complexity, required skill, and advanced playstyle? It's hardly difficult to beat wow.
If you're measuring it in terms of ease of use, simplicity, and number of gold farmers / sellers? Wow will win out every time, which is presumably why it's so popular.
Each of these definitions is sponsored by a different class of player. 12-year-olds who enjoy simplicity will of course stick with wow. Mature gamers who know the difference between a quest mechanic and a grind fest will probably try out Warhammer.
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Did Mark Jacobs run over your dog or something?
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Anything that makes investors think "Welp, let's not do that again" is bad for the industry, this is true. However, I cannot help but hope it will lead and encourage developers to think more before releasing a game that is, well, bad.
Swings and roundabouts!
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The reason? WoW makes dickloads of money. Regardless of previous failures, people will continue to try and get a piece of that.
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If EA doesn't make Blizzard moneys, that means bad things for the rest of the industry, that's the gist right?
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Check out the High Def 1080p screens I took from the preview weekend. The screens actual show allot of the game. * Keep in mind I could not tweek the graphics so basically it is on default, still they are awesome *
http://renewsoft.com/war/
Game is pimp everyone should at least try it this Sunday 7th of Spet.
Reasons:
- Pimp art direction
- Pimp classes
- Pimp Spells
- Pimp loot
- Pimp gameplay
- Pimp audio score
- etc