Morning Discussion

Morning Shackers. So Duke Nukem 3D is making it's way to XBLA, fortunately we're lucky enough to have the Shack Staff already previewing this fine port for you. Speaking of downloadables, we've got more info on Grand Theft Auto 4's Xbox 360 material and it's looks like it should be pretty hefty. And the Tetris Company rolls out some IP claims with disturbing implications, I for one plan to legally claim any game where keys are matched to doors of a similar color. Bring it id!

From The Chatty
  • reply
    August 26, 2008 6:18 AM

    WARHAMMER Players:

    If you haven't done so, vote now to help determine where the shack guild plays!

    http://gcrobots.com/warpoll/

    • reply
      August 26, 2008 6:20 AM

      also dat shit gone GOLD

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      August 26, 2008 6:23 AM

      I really wish Mythic would just abolish all references to Open RvR. People aren't getting what it actually is and how it will 'break' the game. They should just launch with Core and be done with it.

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      August 26, 2008 6:25 AM

      I'm surprised by the number of destruction and destruction only votes. I guess some people really want to play the bad guys.

    • reply
      August 26, 2008 6:26 AM

      NEW Q&A as well http://warhammeralliance.com/ Scroll down a bit to "You ask the questions - Q&A with Mythic". It has some good info on graphics scaling, auction houses, and some stuff before launch.

      Also a nice wallpaper of an in game model http://www.warhammeralliance.com/forums/showthread.php?t=41923 . That is confirmed in-game by a mythic employee in the same thread.

      • reply
        August 26, 2008 6:28 AM

        Direct Link: http://www.warhammeralliance.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63643

        Interesting quote:


        Q: What is the clear definition of open RvR server ruleset?

        Josh Drescher: We're still working that out with some of the internal elder testers and some of our EA testers, primarily that's going to mean a lot more open field RvR. One of the things we're looking at right now, is do we keep the chicken mechanic in, if so, where, how do we implement it. We want to do it in a way that is sensible, but we don't want to turn it into chaos where it it's nonsense the entire time. We don't want to waste resources it will take to put up servers like that, and then have it turn out as something nobody actually likes playing on.

        The easiest answer is you flag everyone for RvR all the time and leave the chicken in, but we don't know what actually feels right for what that type of server is going to be. We'll probably end up trying three or four different versions and see what the community thinks.


        This concerns me.

        • reply
          August 26, 2008 6:29 AM

          They need to stop worrying about it and just not do it at all.

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            August 26, 2008 6:31 AM

            Having a "OMG PK" server is great because it's a dumping ground for all the assholes

          • reply
            August 26, 2008 6:33 AM

            With the way voting is going I don't think this will be something the shack guild will have to worry about thankfully.

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            August 26, 2008 6:37 AM

            Giving people a choice is always a good thing.

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              August 26, 2008 6:40 AM

              It's a good thing when they actually have the stuff figured out, Ironing this stuff out 3 weeks before retail launch is cutting it close.

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                August 26, 2008 6:46 AM

                There's not much to iron out - all they have to do is adjust teh Chicken rules which should be easy after putting up a couple of Open servers during open beta.

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                  August 26, 2008 6:59 AM

                  For example, they might simply make a single adjustment like the Chicken rule (on an Open server) would only apply if you'll actually attack a player in a lower tier (or a player of significantly lower rank) and will not apply if you're just exploring lower tier zones or helping your friend do the PvE quests there. That might satisfy majority of the people who are concerned about teh Chicken system.

                  • reply
                    August 26, 2008 7:04 AM

                    The Chicken is in CORE as well.

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                    August 26, 2008 7:09 AM

                    The Chicken activates as soon as you FLAG RvR not when you attack someone. Being constantly flagged in Open sounds like it could break this mechanic. I don't know and I won't be playing Open anyways. Doesn't bother me so I am going to stop arguing about it and being a huge faggot.

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          August 26, 2008 6:31 AM

          Yeah, they should release the solid normal realms and work on this Open RvR nonsense later. Then they can release it when they like what they have, without ruining new player impressions.

          What is this chicken business?

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            August 26, 2008 6:35 AM

            In WoW terms: If you're level 70 and you go hang out in STV, you get turned into a chicken with 1HP

            • reply
              August 26, 2008 6:47 AM

              If they're going to do that, I would assume that you don't need to travel through lower-level zones on a regular basis like you do in WoW. Or that mobs won't attack a level 1 chicken. Otherwise it's going to really suck.

              • reply
                August 26, 2008 6:51 AM

                i think the idea was that you only turn chicken if you attack somebody in a lower tier, not if you just travel through the zone (or at least that's how it should be)

        • reply
          August 26, 2008 7:40 AM

          the wars of "PK" or "Anti" will come back...and i will be there. i hope more shackers take the sand out and come play on a server that will truly monumental.

          • reply
            August 26, 2008 7:45 AM

            [deleted]

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              August 26, 2008 7:48 AM

              i disagree. there are people who thrive on open RvR and there are people who will play the power struggle game and the politics will start to fly. this will keep the players on this server when it comes online.

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                August 26, 2008 7:52 AM

                [deleted]

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                  August 26, 2008 9:48 AM

                  i dont know what to say sir...DAoC PvP server was 100% pure awesomeness.

                  my experiences in open PvP systems yield loads of fun and politics. why politics? because some portion of those gamers feel like they want to control and area and claim it as their own. it did happen in WoW...very very early on. hillsbrad was a war zone...*was* in the early years.

    • reply
      August 26, 2008 6:29 AM

      I've been trying to resist but I have a feeling I'll be picking this up so I voted.

      • reply
        August 26, 2008 6:31 AM

        I voted but I'm never going to play anyways.

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      August 26, 2008 6:31 AM

      You guys are so goodie two-shoes. Order is boring! Destruction is much funnier (greenskins!) and more evil.

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        August 26, 2008 6:34 AM

        This is my thought for going order http://www.shacknews.com/laryn.x?id=17763561

        Plus I'm sick of playing the dark side. The art design for a lot of the destruction classes bother me, the dark elves in particular.

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          August 26, 2008 6:42 AM

          From that it sounds like the opposite of what happened in WoW. Alliance is filled with immature deuchebags and Horde is a bit more mature and focused. Stereotypically, that is.

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            August 26, 2008 6:44 AM

            hahahahhahahahahahahahhahaha

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              August 26, 2008 6:48 AM

              your thinking of the Barrens too aren't you?

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            August 26, 2008 6:46 AM

            this is like, 100% opposite of my 4 years in WoW.

            This just in: Barrens Chat rots your brain.

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              August 26, 2008 6:55 AM

              Obviously the Barrens is the #1 offender for sucky chat, but I've seen it more widespread Alliance. On the 3 servers I've played on, Horde has been better at skill, maturity, and attitude.

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            August 26, 2008 7:14 AM

            Horde is a bit more mature and focused

            hahahaha. Oh man. Good one.

        • reply
          August 26, 2008 6:59 AM

          the art design for dest tanks looks waaaay better than the order side. i don't want to be an f'in dwarf.

          i want to be a hulking chosen tank. if we go order, i won't be rolling a tank probably.

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        August 26, 2008 6:40 AM

        I haven't played Warhammer yet, but in WoW, the good guys have bright and colorful backgrounds for their areas/towns/cities and the bad dudes get this drab, dusty clay boring shit to look at. I can't think of a game where the bad guys had bright cool shit to keep my eyes orgasming the entire time I play.

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          August 26, 2008 7:02 AM

          The two sides share zones that are split into areas, but otherwise share a look and feel- so the Tier 1 zone for a racial pair (High Elf vs. Dark Elf, for instance) pretty much looks the same between the two races.

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          August 26, 2008 8:27 AM

          Lineage 2

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            August 26, 2008 1:34 PM

            uh, Dark Elf town in Lineage 2 was pretty bland

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        August 26, 2008 6:41 AM

        If Order wins the vote, stick with Empire. They are crazy in their own special way. I agree on the Greenskins though. The amount of character they put into that race makes the others feel lifeless.

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        August 26, 2008 6:59 AM

        I have no idea how this poll is picking Order.

        The race imbalance is something fierce. Almost 2 to 1 in favor of destruction. Scenarios are balanced, but it makes it almost impossible for Order to win world RvR. (Unless you sneak in at off-peak times.)

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          August 26, 2008 7:07 AM

          I think that's the point. Something about wanting to be with the underdogs..

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          August 26, 2008 7:09 AM

          So long as we don't end up on a server with another large, pre-coordinated group we should be able to tip the scale a bit.

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          August 26, 2008 7:13 AM

          Well, some people are born masochists :-P

    • reply
      August 26, 2008 6:34 AM

      Once a faction is decided is a class poll going to go up? People should play what they want in the end, but I know that many are kind of sitting on the fence waiting to see what others choose to play.

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        August 26, 2008 6:36 AM

        Once we figure out the realm, we'll get a proper website set up and yeah we'll have a poll on that stuff.

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        August 26, 2008 6:39 AM

        Oh geez it's too early in the game to be worried about this! People should just play whatever they want to play and enjoy the launch. There'll be plenty of time for re-rolling and guild drama about tanks and guild drama about healers and guild drama about Clay sleeping with the Witch Elf class lead and giving that shemale all the loot later.

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          August 26, 2008 6:41 AM

          Why would I lose sleep?

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            August 26, 2008 7:17 AM

            Because you're sleeping with the Witch Elf class leader, naughty naughty

    • reply
      August 26, 2008 6:38 AM

      Jesus I'm really surprised at the Shack. Order? Core? This is like 100% opposite of the GCR

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        August 26, 2008 6:40 AM

        There really isn't an evil vs good in WoW. The alliance and horde are basically two sides of the same coin.

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          August 26, 2008 6:43 AM

          I'm no WAR lore guy, but I'm pretty sure that both sides are just a little evil

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            August 26, 2008 6:52 AM

            In Warhammer, there's Order and Chaos.

            "Order" isn't really "good". It's in favor of preserving the status quo, but it is authoritarian and somewhat violent. It does, however, protect humans and the like from a hostile world.

            "Chaos" damn well is "evil". They're all about disorder, destruction, violence, murder, consorting with demonic powers, etc.

            So there aren't real "good guys", there are very definitely "bad guys".

        • reply
          August 26, 2008 6:45 AM

          how is that different in WAR? psst it's not, it's never good vs evil anymore, it's red vs blue

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            August 26, 2008 6:46 AM

            Hmm I thought destro was pretty evil. Guess I have more reading to do.

            • DM7 legacy 10 years legacy 20 years
              reply
              August 26, 2008 7:08 AM

              It is, Slowtreme doesn't know wtf about Destruction. ;D

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                August 26, 2008 7:17 AM

                My Greenskin isn't Evil, I'm just looking out for #1.

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                  August 26, 2008 7:21 AM

                  Nice of you to look out for me.

                  • DM7 legacy 10 years legacy 20 years
                    reply
                    August 26, 2008 7:44 AM

                    Waaaagh! Puny gits! ;D

    • reply
      August 26, 2008 7:16 AM

      yet again, an MMO that has different servers for the different continents.
      As much as I'm intrigued by the hype, I don't want to play it unless it's with the shack, and there's never a big enough EU presence for it to be the same...

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        August 26, 2008 7:17 AM

        So are you going to play on US servers? I'd love to see Fillet make a triumphant return to glory!

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          August 26, 2008 7:23 AM

          I don't think I get the option of it. I've wanted to come back to the US WoW, but the way I was able to previously no longer exists; and I have 2 level 70s on an EU server now [6/9BT 5/5MH experienced rogue]

          And fillet exists again, but he got pissed off with nature and became a warrior :)

      • reply
        August 26, 2008 7:18 AM

        I'm waiting three months to monitor sustained interest before joining an MMO because of a Shack guild

      • reply
        August 26, 2008 7:18 AM

        [deleted]

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          August 26, 2008 7:24 AM

          From the official site:
          Will Americans and Europeans be on the same servers?

          No, our partner GOA is handling all European distribution and all the European servers. They're also handling the translation issues for the German, Italian, Spanish, and French players. We are working much, much more closely with GOA than we did on Camelot. The experience of the typical GOA player, and that of the typical player in North America, should be exactly the same with all content being released simultaneously.

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          August 26, 2008 7:33 AM

          They had Euro and US servers in DAoC, but did not restrict by IP etc. It was costly getting the US version shipped over just so I could play on the US servers.

          • reply
            August 26, 2008 7:40 AM

            Which I'm doing again for Warhammer. Bleh.

          • reply
            August 26, 2008 7:41 AM

            I would happily buy you a copy and just email you the key.

    • reply
      August 26, 2008 7:24 AM

      I'm about to finally make my beta character.. Where should I be?

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        August 26, 2008 7:27 AM

        I thought the beta servers were down unless you are an elder beta tester.

      • reply
        August 26, 2008 7:30 AM

        lol what?

        Beta is shut down until Sept 7th.

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          August 26, 2008 7:32 AM

          Closed beta is still going I thought (the one i'm in)? Just the open beta weekend is done :-)

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            August 26, 2008 7:35 AM

            CE Closed beta is shut down.

            The only beta that is open is the Elder Tester beta and that is on the Test servers.

            • reply
              August 26, 2008 7:37 AM

              [deleted]

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              August 26, 2008 7:55 AM

              I did manage to get in last night and play a little more.

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                August 26, 2008 8:12 AM

                the CE beta was shut down last night so if you got into the Closed Beta via a Collectors Edition code, it is done.

                The only beta open currently is the Elder beta on the 'Test' servers. Warpstone/Deathsword using the Test client.

    • reply
      August 26, 2008 7:27 AM

      [deleted]

      • reply
        August 26, 2008 7:31 AM

        It's your choice, no one's forcing you to be completely absent from the shack guild.

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        August 26, 2008 7:32 AM

        the developers don't even know wtf the Open ruleset will be like when it launches:

        What is the clear definition of open RvR server ruleset?

        Josh Drescher: We're still working that out with some of the internal elder testers and some of our EA testers, primarily that's going to mean a lot more open field RvR. One of the things we're looking at right now, is do we keep the chicken mechanic in, if so, where, how do we implement it. We want to do it in a way that is sensible, but we don't want to turn it into chaos where it it's nonsense the entire time. We don't want to waste resources it will take to put up servers like that, and then have it turn out as something nobody actually likes playing on.

        The easiest answer is you flag everyone for RvR all the time and leave the chicken in, but we don't know what actually feels right for what that type of server is going to be. We'll probably end up trying three or four different versions and see what the community thinks.

      • reply
        August 26, 2008 7:41 AM

        I'm fairly certain people know how the chicken mechanic works. When you are flagged RvR in a tier that you are out-leveled for you will turn into a chicken. Such as going back to tier 1 at level 12. If you do anything that flags you it will turn you into a chicken.

        In Open RvR this is also how it currently works, however even Mythic themselves said that they are uncertain if it will change. I think the main issue is that they don't want high level players playing in the low level RvR "lakes" where the keeps and skirmishes are.

        Regardless the main thing is that there isn't much of a point with the Open RvR ruleset. The game already has a very significant RvR presence. Game play is built around that you will want to RvR, such as how scenarios will bring you back to the exact same location that you left from. Why RvR also has to be dragged into the PvE areas is beyond me. Open RvR is mainly going to cater to those that want to go solo and harass the enemy on their own land.

        On the core ruleset alone you will have more PvP opportunities than you will know what to do with.

        • reply
          August 26, 2008 7:50 AM

          OK but why WOULDN"T you want to to RvR in the areas that are "safe" on open servers? you say there isn't much of a point with the Open RvR ruleset. And I would say there isn't much of a point with the core RvR ruleset. In this WARHAMMER game your sworn enemy (by Realm) is standing there, you should be hell bent on killing him. What difference does this invisible boundary near lakes and keeps matter?

          You would still get credit for killing Order/Dest even if you aren't next to an RvR objective.

          And the Chicken seems like a stupid mechanic, but it keeps away griefers, which is what everyone seems to be crying about.

          • reply
            August 26, 2008 8:18 AM

            Because I plan on living in the RvR lakes taking over Keeps while also queuing up for scenarios. It's going to provide so much PvP and game play that I just don't see the point of leaving the area to go to PvE land to kill random people. I'd probably kill even less players for that matter and suffer much more down time if I were to go kill people in PvE areas.

            Also RvR in the lakes, taking over keeps and skirmishes will better assist the realm as a whole for the main course....invading the enemy Capital City. This "invisible boundary" mainly keeps the two realms focused on this goal. More points are earned by completing objectives in the RvR lakes than killing Bob the Goblin 10 times who was trying to do a PQ.

            I recognize the players that want to grind boars in the PvE area. However I don't have any interest in harassing them. People that mainly hang around the PvE area often do not want to be bothered with PvP to begin with.

            [y]Remove keeps sieges, skirmishes, scenarios, city sieges and I will sing a different tune. I'd join you not on an open rvr server, but a straight up FFA server in a heartbeat.[y]

      • reply
        August 26, 2008 7:44 AM

        [deleted]

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        August 26, 2008 8:03 AM

        [deleted]

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          August 26, 2008 8:04 AM

          Maybe but I think the Open guys are missing the chance to be Mean Motherfuckers for the Shack Guild.

          • reply
            August 26, 2008 8:08 AM

            How did we possibly own so much in Urban Dead with all these people afraid of a fight.

    • reply
      August 26, 2008 7:38 AM

      oh man...i see my future may not be with the shack. i will only play Open RvR :(

      • reply
        August 26, 2008 7:42 AM

        Shack took the PvE route in AoC as well, that burned out after just a few days. I happily played for a couple months on a PvP server enjoying the game... Until Funcom broke the PvP part too :(

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          August 26, 2008 7:46 AM

          well...i plan on the Open PvP servers. this is my lifeblood in MMOs. any shacker wanting to play the Evil side, become the villian, and hopefully take a piece of MMO history that happens in servers like this...i will be there and there will be loads of killing.

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            August 26, 2008 8:04 AM

            [deleted]

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              August 26, 2008 9:50 AM

              i dont want to play order, i want to live in CHAOS...but who knows.

              i would be happy to help/organize an Open RvR guild for the Shack. i would like to see interest before i ever start putting in the energy.

      • reply
        August 26, 2008 8:22 AM

        I am all for pvp servers, i was still play on Malganis and wouldnt have it any other way. however this is not wow. I was all for open RvR till i started reading up on it. and what i see makes me nervous. having a mode that the devs were "pressured" into implementing and the fact that the game launches in a month and they havent even figured out what they are doing with it just leaves me with the impression that they will tack it on then never look back. AoC is a good example for what happens when you dont know what the fuck you are doing and just implement thing hap hazardly. the reason AoC failed is because they expected people to play for poorly thought out beta. WAR seems to have its shit planned out (at least for core RvR).

    • reply
      August 26, 2008 7:47 AM

      my sword your chin

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      August 26, 2008 7:48 AM

      I actually think Open PvP will detract from the RvR goals - it's a bit counter intuitive, but think about it; if people want to PvP, they will be pushed to pursue the RvR goals instead of spending time ganking.

      Think as the core ruleset as not hindering PvP, just focusing it more.

      • reply
        August 26, 2008 7:52 AM

        When will it be officially set? I'd like the campaigning to end...

        • reply
          August 26, 2008 8:11 AM

          what day does it go live?

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            August 26, 2008 8:13 AM

            I guess the 17th for early access, 19th everyone.

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              August 26, 2008 8:16 AM

              ok, officially set on september 16th

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              August 26, 2008 8:20 AM

              15th for CE head start
              16th for SE head start
              18th for US launch
              19th for EU launch

      • reply
        August 26, 2008 7:58 AM

        The way I see it: In Core, players can stand just outside the objective, combat flag off. waiting for backup to arrive, while the other side works and basically waits. Then they all go charging in.

        If there is no flag, you can harass and molest players before their numbers are greater than yours keeping the area clean for you to work.

        • reply
          August 26, 2008 8:13 AM

          what? you can't turn a flag on or off in a RvR zone. everyone is automatically flagged for combat.

          the players have to regroup in their respective Warcamps (where you respawn).. and there are lots of NPCs in the warcamps anyway.

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          August 26, 2008 8:14 AM

          it does not really work that way since each side of an RvR zone has really hard core npcs guarding it. So enemies would wait there, but you could not take them.

          Also of note is that once you are flagged for pvp it takes a little while for it to disappear. So if someone ducks into and rvr zone it takes 15 seconds for it to activate and a while longer for it to deactivate. This means you can chase them down outside of the zone (if you can stay away from npcs).

    • reply
      August 26, 2008 8:05 AM

      [deleted]

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        August 26, 2008 8:08 AM

        I was thinking along those lines as well. It seems like at first we'll have a pretty large player base, and definitely enough to support two guilds with a little outside recruiting. If the main group chooses Core Order, I'd definitely want to start up an Open Destruction.

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          August 26, 2008 8:09 AM

          Open Destruction is a good guild name o_O

          • reply
            August 26, 2008 8:10 AM

            Heh, I like <Open for Destruction> too.

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        August 26, 2008 8:13 AM

        You can't stop Open from opening a guild but there's only ten who insist on Open versus 51 who want only Core. If the ten are determined never to play core then they'd be better finding another guild.

    • reply
      August 26, 2008 8:15 AM

      [deleted]

      • reply
        August 26, 2008 8:19 AM

        A house divided against itself cannot stand.

        -Abraham Lincoln

        In all seriousness, due to the natural attrition of the first month of MMORPGs, the weaker of the two sides is almost guaranteed to shrivel up and die. It even happened with the Alliance side of WOW, which had a substantial following.

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          August 26, 2008 8:23 AM

          The alliance-side of WoW was less due to attrition natural to MMOs, and more due to a bad balance between casual and hardcore players causing the guild to split. I don't know how much of an issue that would be for WAR, since higher level players can't run lower level players through PvP content...

          • reply
            August 26, 2008 8:41 AM

            Well the horde side had that problem too; we lost a few people early on to EJ, and then a significant chunk of our raiders to Aeternus.

            Fortunately, we had enough people that GCR was able to restock and keep kicking.

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          August 26, 2008 8:58 AM

          I agree with that statement if we're only discussing Shackers, but assuming the hypothetical Open Destruction guild happens, I'm sure it could remain sustainable at first for a few months with a little outside recruiting. I'm not talking random strangers left and right, but a few standouts, Shacker friends, etc.

          I'll offer myself as an officer if someone else wants to take the reins and make this work.

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        August 26, 2008 8:20 AM

        Because then the Open complain they could be more viable if a few more pussies would man up and the Core gets tired of being called pussies.

        • reply
          August 26, 2008 8:22 AM

          [deleted]

          • reply
            August 26, 2008 8:25 AM

            Because the bitching will spill over into the shack.

            • reply
              August 26, 2008 8:47 AM

              [deleted]

              • reply
                August 26, 2008 8:50 AM

                .... have you READ the comments section here?!

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                August 26, 2008 8:59 AM

                Look every time the Conan PvE guild posted here the PvP guild would thread crap and call everyone pussies, until they finally started to make their own threads and the PvE lot decided that Conan was a shit game. It's already started again now and if there was any sign that the Open would quietly acknowledge that the majority like the idea of Core, will be happy playing Core and stop being so stupidly contemptuous of the Core players then maybe a second shack guild wouldn't be annoying drama. However it doesn't look like it's going to happen so I'm not willing to offer any concessions to a group who generally have shown no understanding of the Core players.

                • reply
                  August 26, 2008 9:05 AM

                  You offering concessions is meaningless anyway. People will play where they want, Core or Open, Destruction or Order. The Core guild will probably be better off without players that would rather play Open. The Open preference players would most likely just be unhappy on the Core server, thinking the grass is greener on the Core and they would complain in guild chat making others miserable.

                  As for thread shitty after the game goes live, why not just put up a guild forum and post there? Keep the thread shitters out.

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                    August 26, 2008 9:27 AM

                    Because it's nice to be able to post here about how good a game is and how well the guild is doing.

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                      August 26, 2008 1:27 PM

                      ~
                      ~~~
                      ~~~~~
                      ~~~~~~~

                      ^^^ Steaming pile of thread shit right here

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                August 26, 2008 1:20 PM

                Yes, the PVPers (at least some of them) are that immature. These are people who habitually ridicule anyone who doesn't want to play on an open PvP server.

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      August 26, 2008 8:18 AM

      Serious question.

      Do shack guilds have good leadership and succeed or are they full of bickering and passive aggressive attacks on each other?

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        August 26, 2008 8:22 AM

        GCR had pretty good leadership but from what I've seen it was pretty lax outside of raids.

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          August 26, 2008 8:29 AM

          I must confess I'm surprised it is still kicking.

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            August 26, 2008 9:12 AM

            "What is the Shack?" in guild chat makes baby phil cry. But there are still some coolios in there.

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              August 26, 2008 9:26 AM

              I reupped wow not too long ago and I recognized hardly anyone.

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              August 26, 2008 9:28 AM

              There are a bunch of good people in the guild, lots and lots of new people but it's definitely not a shack guild.

              The guild changed to hardcore mode, and it has become more about dominating content than bringing in new people and just in general being more casual. Wiping to bosses we've beat before (please see Firemaw) no longer is an option while people learn.

              It's just a different guild than it used to be. Doesn't mean it's worse or better than before just different. Unfortunatly that change in MO kind of excluded myself from raiding, raids became more business than fun, so I've taken a backseat as have others but GCR still is alive and kicking.

              I just wish we had the people that made up the guild and helped it live for years raiding more, miss raiding with my old friends like Phil etc... Hopefully I will be able to get back into things during WOTLK.

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                August 26, 2008 9:41 AM

                honestly, It wasn’t so much a guild decision than it was Blizzard's design. We tried to maintain the "casual" raiding scheme that we had. But it simply the game just doesn’t allow for that. We certainly leaned a little too hard with the rostering imo and I do plan on it being different for this expansion. But Blizzard seems finally aware of this kind of problem and is doing their best to eliminate it. Add to that the fact that 10mans will offer their own progression path, I expect a LOT more inclusive raiding.

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                  August 26, 2008 1:14 PM

                  Well correct, boss fights are definitely much more creative and interesting. To go along with that creativity more focus is put on individuals to do a function or perform at a level that should be equal to other people in your group. When someone doesn't the entire group suffers. It was the same in 40 mans, but it was much less so (1 out 40, compared to 1 out of 25/10) and not to mention the fights now are much more complicated than they used to be.

                  Naturally casual raiding has gone to the wayside if you want to progress some. Shoot we saw that in Kara when you and I were leading our way through back in Feburary. It was pretty obvious that static groups were the only way to go even though it pained me to say so, hell I remember all the arguments against doing so with Jahgah etc... Was definitely painful to say the least.

                  Hopefully WOTLK will be a bit more forgiving with including more people in raiding, and I think 10 man instances will definitely be a good direction, I hope it works.

                  As for how hard we 'leaned' on the rostering, meh, in Sunwell it kind of had to happen, like I said unfortunatly I was one of the ones left behind, that's just life. People deal with it (hopefully). I was more upset at being booted from being a CL/officer than I ever was at not going into Sunwell.

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                    August 26, 2008 1:23 PM

                    You'll always be HEAD Priest, to me, Father.

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                      August 26, 2008 2:34 PM

                      YOU HAVE SINNED, BE HEALED! to do it again

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                August 26, 2008 9:54 AM

                i remember being in one of the earlier kara runs you lead and i had a blast.

                being yelled at can go fuck itself, i won't cry about it but i won't spend hours listening to it either.

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                  August 26, 2008 1:15 PM

                  I'm definitely not the yelling type :P

                  Glad SOMEONE still remembers me!

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              August 26, 2008 9:31 AM

              the guild is certainly no longer shack exclusive, but that was unavoidable if we wanted to actually raid content. Though as much as there may be non shackers in the guild, it is still run by shackers for shackers and it will be as long as i'm there.

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                August 26, 2008 10:20 AM

                this is what i love, it's still easy to jump in and join as a shacker. trials with 10x better gear kind of make me laugh, even if they are getting to see content i never will lol.

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          August 26, 2008 9:25 AM

          uh hrm "had" >:(

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        August 26, 2008 9:25 AM

        I'd say a little of both.

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      August 26, 2008 8:20 AM

      The appeal of an Open server seems a bit moot once you are in Tier 4.

      I don't get it.

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        August 26, 2008 8:28 AM

        The opposite is true as well.

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        August 26, 2008 8:30 AM

        I agree. I really don't care about the server type. In the past I've prefered PvP servers but Warhammer is designed for RvR so I'll get my fill of it. I am a bit more interested in the Destruction classes though.

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        August 26, 2008 9:38 AM

        [deleted]

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      August 26, 2008 9:31 AM

      I'm pleasantly surprised at the poll outcome so far.

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        August 26, 2008 1:24 PM

        51% destruction right now. It's going to be close!

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          August 26, 2008 1:31 PM

          If you count the "Destruction, but I'll play whatever," it outweighs the Order votes.

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          August 26, 2008 2:52 PM

          So the afternoon crowd is "edgy" and the morning crowd's a buncha hippies? :D

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      August 26, 2008 2:38 PM

      I'm sticking with Order, till my beloved Skaven get released!

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      August 26, 2008 3:51 PM

      Destruction can't win mmkay

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      August 26, 2008 4:03 PM

      HAY GUYS I JUST ORDERED THE GAME!!

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      August 26, 2008 4:06 PM

      I just hope everyone decides on something and we don't completely split, I am willing to go to any server or side at this point just to play with the most shackers.

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        August 26, 2008 4:10 PM

        I'm interested in seeing what the results of a similar poll are like after the preview / beta.

        Everyone in it should try both Order and Destruction and also Core / Open (if possible).

        People who are picked Order and only Order or Destruction and only Destruction before they've even played the game scare me.

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          August 26, 2008 4:16 PM

          Yea another thing is people dismissing the tome tactics so easily and saying the tome is absolutely worthless. I really don't want to end up with a severely gimped character because I didn't know I had to do some tier 1 or 2 epic quest line with the hidden lairs.

          I hope the devs clear up those issues, a lot of elder players are voicing their concerns over this issue for the open servers.

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