Publication of AO-Rated Manhunt 2 Disallowed by Sony, Nintendo

Finally the gaming industry shows maturity in their decision making - not only the ESRB but also two of the larger publishing and manufacturing companies. Way to go Nintendo, yeah Sony you too - good boy *pat on the head*.

I played Manhunt and could not find any entertainment. Compared to King Pin, Hitman or Max Payne which also can be very gory and violent, somehow the whole wraparound was missing. It was just pure, mindless killing, without given reason or situational necessity.

What the hell?! they allow it in the uk with an 18 rating (affectivly AO) but not with an AO rating in the states, that seems a bit backward to me!

No sympathy from me, it'll serve Rockstar Toronto right for making such depraved, unnecessairly violent and sadistic shit. Way to go BBFC, way to go ESRB, way to go Sony and Nintendo.

"It's just like how your multiplex won't run porno flicks."

No, it's not the same.

It's more like DVDs, where you buy one and can watch whatever is on it (aside from region restrictions, which is just....ugh). Except, even that's not too similar unless your DVD player disallows anything above R/TV-MA and doesn't allow you to disable that dumb restriction due to the manufacturer being a douche.

You see, the real problem isn't the AO rating, ESRB, Rockstar, or Take Two...it's the stupid console companies and most retailers not liking pixelated ickiness (or more specifically: blindly banning AO games).

The funny thing is that Rockstar and Take Two could put an end to all of these AO problems if they just made GTA IV an AO game. There is absolutely no way the console companies would disallow a new GTA game, and retailers would lose too much money by not selling it. Sure, it's fine to cause problems after most of the money has already been made like with San Andreas and the hot coffee stuff, but do you realize how much money wouldn't have been made if San Andreas was AO from the start and consoles/retailers banned it?

Shit tons of money = "Wait, what policy?"

Here's what Rockstar should do, in happy ostrichboy fantasy land: ditch the Wii version, cut the PS2 game to M, then release a patch through non-Sony channels like Fileshack that adds back the AO content. Consumers buy the game, download the patch, rip the DVD to their PC and run the patch. This gives them the original version, which they can then burn and play, and sidesteps the ESRB and Sony approval processes altogether.

You'd need to take some additional steps to make the last step work which are inappropriate to discuss here, but I think that whole procedure is covered by established fair-use rights -- you're not violating anyone's copyright at any point.

Of course, they'd probably get sued by Sony for something, but you can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs, and with GTAIV coming out later this year and the PS3 floundering, it's not as if Rockstar has no leverage.

This will never happen, of course. But I would bet a significant quantity of money that the original version shortly becomes available to those with the means, as happened with Thrill Kill in similar circumstances.

When did we all turn into children who have to be told what to do by our loving government?

As a side note, I don't have any problem with games getting rated AO.

My biggest problem is that even though the three consoles all have the ability to filter out AO-rated titles, none of the three consoles allow the publishing of AO-rated titles, which makes the AO rating essentially a means of censoring speech on those platforms.

what was in the game that was so bad? I've done a lot of stuff in games that I couldnt do in real life (oh, how i wish), so the questionable content has me curious. No, I didnt play the first game. I heard it sucked.

This comments thread reeks of ignorance, more than I can recall in any comment thread of recent memory. Get the facts before posting stupid crap.

So Sony and nintendo have stopped making games for adults, this is a sad day in history. I guess the children and jack thompson win :(

How disapointing, I wonder if MS would react the same way?

What's confusing is Sony saying no... Nintendo I get, but Sony?! Ugh...

A-B-A-C-A-B-B

Problem solved!

Is this a minor typo in the post?

"Games made for Nintendo systems enjoy a broad variety of styles, genres and ratings... As with books, television and movies, different content is meant for different audiences," said a Nintendo representative in a statement. "As stated on Nintendo.com, Nintendo does not allow any AO-rated content on its systems." When contacted by Shacknews, Nintendo offered the same response.

I think it's meant to be Nintendo Sony in that line.

I love how people go bonkers over this fine piece of selfregulation. Especially since you prolly would be taking a complete different stance if the game was called Osama and the primary goal was to bomb the Twin Towers. Or Hitler: letting you virtually advance through the carreer of a Nazi. Or lets make a sequal to Bully, called Rapist and see how that pans out. Cause hey, it's harmless cause only adults get to play it, right?

This whole Manhunt debate has nothing to do with freedom of choice/speech/fap. It is about people having a different view on what's acceptable and what's not. You all know there's a limit to what should be allowed for games. It's not like you would endorse any of the nonexistant games mentioned above.

To be clear with everyone:
This isn't about Rockstar's freedom of speech, this is about Rockstar making money.
If it was about freedom of speech they would release it on PC, like all other AO games that stir up a storm.
Not only would they be getting a larger install base, but no opposition to having it out there.

One of the issues here i think might be developpers of such games pushing the enveloppe farther each and every time. For example, check out the first GTA...then check manhunt...and then San Andreas with the hot coffee thing. I mean, each and every time they win with a "we are in a free country bla bla bla" they push farther, they make their next game more violent, more gory etc.

I mean jeez, those arent zombies you are killing now or some kind of extraterrestrials invading earth or whatever. This isnt a team competition like the Battlefield games. Its not about survival (well the first one was a tiny little bit), its a bout being a murderer and murdering in as many creative ways as possible. I also would not blame the gov. for this. the gov. doesn't care about such issues unless they affect re-election in some way.

I also agree that most parents need to have their hand held for them because they have no clue, they only want to put little Johnny in front of the tv screen so they can go do something else than play with him when they get back from work. So they are going to buy anything little johnny wants and of course little johnny, like all children, will want to try what he normally would not be able to try.

So sometimes people, like the ESRB have to put their pants on and put a stop to the nonsense because for 10 of the people out there that might just take it as a sick sick sick game, there are at the very least 1 that will think its great and try to imitate it.

Another question is, how sick and depraved a game needs to be to be fun? I mean, you can do sick things with "The Sims" if you want to, but normally it doesnt encourage you to play that way. If you want to talk about freedom of whatever...i think this is really it.

I'm not really interested in buying this game, but I think this whole thing is interesting as far as how this will be handled in the future.

I agree with the rating system, and if retailers don't want to carry AO products then that's fine too, it's their call. I also agree people should be carded when buying video games.

What I don't agree with is now we've got the actual console manufacturers saying that we can't play whatever we want on their systems. The rating system is in place so the consumer can make an informed decision when buying a game, and that's it. There should be no other factors involved. What's next, Sony Blu-ray won't play porn? Or maybe they will just make it so I can't watch Sony DVDs on Microsoft hardware.

I don't like where this is heading.

Well, looks like we now know the limit.

Thus far professionally made mainstream games have never really been so universally banned. Sex games and 'Ku Klux Klan Party!' type games have been the only victims of such universal condemnation, and with pretty good reason; They're usually, aside from questionable content, quite badly made.

The ignorance of the first posters worries me, and the haste with which, and unusual verbosity with which they posted long and well written articles before any of the more predictable replies came in suggests that they were waiting for this chance, possibly as part of a conservative organisation or with some kind of plan. Creepy.

Could simply be attention whores screaming the contrary opinion, of course.

Manhunt... Manhunt was banned due to it's alleged, and later disproven connection to the murder of a british teenager by another in the year of it's release. The publicity gave it a great boost to sales once the excitement had died down for the initial release.

The businessmen know this well.

So we'll assume Manhunt 2 has stepped far beyond the boundaries of it's prequel... But how?

Manhunt 1 had the constant defence that your character was mostly a mute, a mysterious death row inmate of no specified crime who was forced through a night of brutality. The level of violence used had little effect on the game, and the more violent the kills, the more difficult they were to pull off due to the timing... The game encouraged violence but did not reward it and the choice was permenantly in the hands of the player, as they controlled a character who did not choose to fight, but was forced to at gunpoint.

It had a fair plot, great dialogue, a good audio-atmosphere, and impressive graphics for a PS2 game, while the changing tactics as the weaponry moves from melee to firearms and back again kept the game fresh right through, for me. It got some very good reviews if I remember correctly, for quality, not content.

I'm thinking Manhunt 2 may have made the mistake of making the violence voluntary on the part of the character, and forcing the player to commit acts of sadism to actually complete objectives, rather than leaving it as a meaningless choice of method to achieve a more open end.

Manhunt 2 must have a different mood, I think. I'd still gladly play it, just as I read my horror novels that are far worse than any game I've ever played, and I expect I'd enjoy the experience.

This is my choice. I'm hoping for an uncensored PC release, if any publisher wants to show everyone it has the balls to expose itself to the media firing line and break the censorship.

Perhaps it would make a good digital distribution release? I doubt Valve will be keen, but there's a chance, and it avoids the whole 'Walmart' problem of squeamish retailers fearing lawsuits and christian extremists with firebombs.


- Jakk

I never played the original, but all this press has got me intrigued to just what the hell the big deal is. Besides the violence I mean. Was the first game any good? What type of game is it?

Because of this press, I will be buying this game :)

I'm confused. Isn't already out, on their systems, in the UK and other European countries?

Are they just blocking it here because it actually got a rating?

To be honest i think its bull having several layers of censorship like this, if country laws brands something as adult only then that's what it is and Nintendo / Sony shouldn't start interfering with that. Imagine if you couldn't buy a DVD player to play your horror movies.

GIVE US THE UN CENSORED VERSION ON THE PC!!!
kthxbye

Hah hah, Rockstar is just sitting back and jerking off to all this free publicity. They'll modify the content in a few weeks and resubmit it and get an M rating, no sweat.

We need some examples of the content which made Manhunt 2 fall into the AO category. So far I have read that it had just too much violence.

It very well could have been deserved.

The hypocracy and what really gets me about all of this is how movies/comics/books are allowed to potray scenes that are every bit the equal of what we might see in a game like this and yet they are allowed to exist out there. An AO rating is so much more of a dagger to a game than it is for a movie getting an R or above. And also by getting sony and nintendo (and probably Microsoft) to go along with these rulings they are just giving fuel to people like Jack Thomson who are actively working against the very industry they are a part of.

Short version, this is nothing more than fucking censorship.

seems like europe is the only place that has a working ratings system for videogames (waiting for news about manhunt2 being "banned" in the rest of europe)

This is good news. The last thing the game industry needs is this game getting into the hands of some insane teenager who was going to murder a bunch of people anyway but just happens to do it after obtaining this game. We're constantly claiming that all of these games we play are something more than murder simulators so why are so many defending a game that /is/ nothing more than a tasteless murder simulator? Based on what I've seen and read so far, it would not be easy to get this game down to an "M" level and if Rockstar includes the removed content on the media in any form, we'll have another ugly GTA situation on our hands. Yes, there are problems with the ESRB and the way ratings work in the game industry but this is not the fight to pick.

If Rockstar was smart, they'd just release this piece of shit (either rated "AO" or unrated) for PC and forget the console market.

humm that kinda pisses me off. Am I reading this wrong?...so the game will only be coming out on the Wii now and not the PS2? I luved Manhunt 1. I can't believe they won't release Manhunt but they will release Grand Theft Auto, a much much more mature game. Sure some of the deaths in Manhunt are pretty gruesome, but the art style is pretty cartoony that you really can't take it serious. And you are doing these things to bad guys, not normal people walking on the street like in GTA.

pretty stupid. They give games way too hard of a time. Movies are way worse than this, Hostel for example is the nastiest shit I've ever seen in my life...made me not even think about seeing Hostel 2.

Let's be serious here for a moment people. How many parents would have really paid attention to the ratings and not allowed little Johnny to purchase the game?

I mean really how many times have you been in EB/Gamestop/Best Buy and seen a clueless parent who only assumes that all games are "for kids," because that's what their expectations of video games have always been. Not as adult entertainment. And then they let little Johnny buy it with his allowance money.

Wasn't there a comic a few months back that made light of those kind of situations? Until today's parents get a clue and monitor what can and cannot be played this is going to happen. Until folks take responsibility for their actions it will always be this way. Nintendo doing this should not surprise a single one of you, they've always been family friendly since the days of white blood in Street Fighter 2, Sony surprises me a bit, but they have a very large market penetration.

I'm just as upset about censorship in this country as anyone because I know what my daughter can (Paper Mario) and cannot (RE4: Wii Edition) play, so I'm not mad at the game companies, I'm mad at the stupid parents who continue to live in their bubble and not realize they have the choices on what little Johnny plays and that is why the game companies have to do their "due diligence," to keep the media and the Soccer Mom culture happy and content and not making it a "BLAME CANADA," situation.

ugh this just sucks. i'm not interested in the watered down version! i fear this is going to set a very bad precedent.

The problem with the "adult only" rating is when most people think of "adult" content, they immediately think porn. They should probably rename it to something like 20+. Lets face it, even though many of us here are adults, there are also many kid gamers. This is especially true for Nintendo who clearly targets children and teens. By giving a game an adult only rating, you've basically prevented over half of your customer base from buying it. Nintendo doesnt wanna anger parents by offering this games. And they dont wanna hurt their bottom line (profit) by publishing a game that isnt going to sell due to the rating. I'm not really sure about why sony has refused it though. Perhaps the outcome would have been different if this was a real money maker like the GTA series. This is just Manhunt game.

Some time ago I read that the Wii would have a cheap development kit that would allow 'home-brew' games to be released through one of the channels (like Virtual Console games).

This raises the question of whether Nintendo (or Sony or Microsoft, if they deploy the same thing) will have to screen home-brew games before release, given that anyone can easily create a game as gruesome as Manhunt 2 currently is. Could this be why home-brew games may never see the light of day as an official offering through these next-gen consoles?

I don't get this. How do you draw the line on what to publish? Mature titles are meant for "adults only" as well, but they're allowed. But something extra bad for adults isn't allowed?

It just doesn't make sense to me.

fuck.

Next, Sony will make a statement saying owners of their new Blu-Ray DVD players will not be allowed to watch porn on them...

Honestly, why do companies go through the trouble of defending violent games, saying they're not for kids etc. and then go as far as saying 'Sorry, content that is intended for adults is not allowed on our system'

I have a feeling this is going to happen more often as technology advances and games become more and more detailed.

Personally, I can't wait until I can shoot a guy in the chest with a rocket and watch his internals explode out of his back, with each organ having properties that allow it to be manipulated through the physics engine :)

yeterday?

Rockstar needs to just trim the game down a bit and pass the ratings board. After you make the millions in sales from all this negative press do the following. Release their version of the ABACABB code for the game. Old school players will remember what this code did. Make your point and deal with it in the courts later

Our story so far...

Guv'mint: Too much violence.
Shackers: Public censorship sucks! Give private enforcement and the ESRB a chance
ESRB: lol AO
Sontendo: We're using our authority as platform regulars to enforce a privately-held policy to not license AO-rated games.
Shackers: OMG what happened to freedomz in this country!?

For gaming, the alternative to public censorship is private censorship. Movie theaters are not obligated to show R-rated movies, they just do. And after all this talking about how games should follow the movie model and how people who "understand" gaming should be running the rules and not the big ol' ineffective and inefficient guv'mint, the theater chains of the console world are saying they won't be running this title on their screens and everyone pisses their pants.

Dear Nintendo and Sony,

Fuck you.

Best Worst,
the city