Chinese Gamers Need an "Imaginary Outlet"

I don't think what he is trying to say is even remotely racist towards the chinese.

He's talking about the economic situation that people _in china_ live in, where it's exceedingly difficult or impossible for the average individual to really build themselves up outside their station in society, so time consuming mmorpgs that are primarily about progression are presumably more appealing.

I think were he is mostly wrong is somehow implying that isn't true to some extent in Europe and the US. I think he may be right that it could be more popular in China for socioeconomic reasons, but the conclusion that they must just be a fad elsewhere and will all die is probably wrong.

What he's mostly managed to do is insult MMORPG players through the implication that they are using MMORPGs because they don't feel a sense of accomplishment in real life.

I think Mr. Pachter is correct to some degree, and i definately think that SOME people do play MMORPG's in order to feel a false sense of accomplishment. However i think these people also have social problems to begin with, and really when you have no friends to give you a pat on the back i guess virtual one's will have to do it for you.

cheapest WoW around?

The artificial sense of accomplishment is what every single game is about. There is no game on earth that does not rely on making the player feel as if he has accomplished something. This is a fact and cannot be argued. Games do have artwork on display, and this is of course one part of video gaming: observing and appreciating the creation, but what keeps one playing is the accopmlishment and enjoyment gotten from levels, items, or any type of feature that establishes your character as more powerful or unique than another.

The fact he says the Chinese need it more than other people is horse shit though. He's a smart guy, but he's also a fucking racist.

I think the biggest "flaw" of the MMORPG series so far is the amount of time that it takes to complete a straightforward task. I've found many games like this incredibly addictive, including Diablo, Diablo 2, World of Warcraft... but in the end, I felt as though I had wasted far too much time playing video games.

The "hook" of theses games that caught me was the seeming significance and sense of accomplishment that one received from levelling or getting additional pieces of equipment - additionally, the interactions with other people in the game made for a positive game experience. I still thank the people who helped me in GCR - it was a friendly group of people, but I think that the rewards from playing the video game pale in the long run compared to other tasks that I prefer in my own life.

Clearly the buck stops with me, and I'm responsible for my own play time. My own realization of how much time I was putting into these games was an eye opening experience. I realized that when I died, I wouldn't be amazingly happy that I had experienced the "summer of Diablo 2" - I valued my friendships and relationships with other people, and physical fitness more than my gaming experiences.

I've still not cut out all games, and I'm not saying that games are bad, but I would say that MMORPGS and the like encourage game playing to excess - if we spend more than 2 hours a day on multiple days of the week playing a video game, I'd argue that I bet you could find an activity that you'd appreciate much more - helping people, improving yourself, or building something of significance.

For games like WoW, Dungeon Siege and Diablo2, it's nothing more than the enjoyment of collecting "lewt", seeing what new form of badassery I can find to whup the crap out of monsters. Not as any kind of escape; I have a decent life and no need to escape from it. (Though one could argue that my vulgar love of video games is my decent life, and thus escaping it would be ... then I get all crosseyed and confused.)

Other games, like The Incredible Hulk, Darkwatch and Barbie Horse Adventures I use like Mr. Remo said, to view someone else's stories, worlds and horses.

I think Mr. Pachter was HAX'D BY CHINESE!!111

I play games for very similar reasons I read books or watch movies: for entertainment, to experience a world or idea that was borne out of somebody's creative effort, to think critically about the process involved in its creation, and so on. I played World of Warcraft for several months, and by far my favorite thing about the game was simply inhabiting the world and experiencing the very cohesive and fully-formed universe put forth by its developers.

You are thinking about how WoW was created as you play it? Do you know how suck the fun out of something.

MMORPGs, aka progress quests, THRIVE on the 'imaginary sense of accomplishment'. Take out the leveling or phat lewt finding aspect and nobody would play them. Keep them in and you get 4 million subscribers begging to give you their money every month to satisfy their appetite for more 'accomplishments'. Even when they get completely sick of the game they are likely to stay for a long time because they have already invested so much time in the game; in other words their 'imaginary accomplishments' keep them hanging on.

is shacknews better than game magazines?

saying you play games for entertainment means nothing

being entertained means that something is pleasing you, it's that something he was referring about

being "entertained" by virtual accomplishment for instance...

Owned by the Remo, yes?

Hey! How about this: It's a freaking game. Deal with it. It's something to pass the time just like any other medium. Sheesh. These people talk as if they've reached a higher plane of consciousness: stupidity. /sarcasm.

repost from earlier thread on this:

"There is a real fear that this game, with its incredible time investment, will really cut into game-buying across the industry." -Mr. Green, of Computer Gaming World.

That's not an unfounded fear, I think. I buy much fewer games a year because of MMOs it ends up saving me money (but certainly not time.) Anyone else agree/disagree?

I think things are a lot more stable in china these days then believed, whilst the US is not stable. <- this is coming from a independant person looking in on the US & China. I think the mans just scared of Chinese finanacial & economic growth. He's just being rather racist and dumb, computers haven't been around that long, and when the USA was in the same developing stages as China i'm sure they felt "accomplished".

I know this sounds crazy, but I play games because it's fun.

So are the WoW servers in China 100% Farmers or do foreigners join those servers as well?

So what do any / all of you think of this?

The article . . . look for the link at the bottom of this for part two.
http://washingtontimes.com/specialreport/20050626-122138-1088r.htm

The speech
http://www.halturnershow.com/ChineseDefenseMinisterTalksWarAgainstUS.html

While I don't think "in game accomplishment" is what I want or need (or why I play)

I do totally feel that the alternate worlds that I play in are more fun than the real one I live in - being fantasy anything can happen - and that's just great.

Like Albion in fable - I love the game and the land - it's just a place to "live" while you play for a while - it's fucking great

god i'd be such a wow junkie if i ever tried

I need an imaginary sense of accomplishment. >:(

I dunno I don't take so much issue with what he says about the Chinese needing an escape. They live under a brutially repressive regieme. I can sit around and say "Fuck the government it sucks!" all I would want to and no soldier is going to come to my house and kill me. But what happens if you are living in China and want to rail against authority? My guess is you go online and rail aginst an imaginary authority that isn't going to hunt you down and kill you. But I'm just an American so what do I know?

Besides the artificial sense of accomplishment thing, there's also the matter of monies you know.

Oh and they get to get laid through such games. lol

Yeah except the artificial sense of accomplishment, the artificial posessions, and the artificial status these things confer IS the reason people play mmorpgs. remo misses the mark again.

Remo Williams is awesome though, he all knows martial arts.

I am a gamer and have been since I was 4, bottom line though, escapism and a sense of power and acomplishment IS a large component of gaming.

You have to admit when you are playing a 64/32 player FPS and your name is the first on the list at the end, it makes you feel good.

Wow, that last paragraph is so ignorant it discusts me.

I play games for a ton of reasons, the biggest of which are for fun (obviously) and because they allow me to do or be things I can't in real life. Sometimes after a long day, it's relaxing to load up a crazy violent FPS game and shoot some heads off. Sometimes it's theraputic to play Morrowind and kill everyone who looks at me funny. Sometimes I find it interesting to experience life as a vampire. Regardless of what it is, there are times when it's nice to be a different person, simply because that person isn't me.

All of them are equally fantastical, of course.. I don't think I have to argue that game violence isn't the same as real violence with this croud, though.

Isn't his arguement flawed when you consider North American and European communities to be the most competitive? I'm not agreeing with his idea of playing games to feel accomplished, but the gaming communities in North America/Europe/Korea regularly run LANs that have thousands of competitive, world-class players with large cash prizes. There aren't many Chinese players that can feel accomplished at a game by winning $10,000 playing it - China is just a drop in the pond compared to that. Am I making sense?

If somone] is paying $15 a month on top of the initial $50 investment and is devoting so many hours a week to it, are they really going to go out and buy the next Need for Speed or whatever? There is a real fear that this game, with its incredible time investment, will really cut into game-buying across the industry.

From my experience this is especially true. I have been playing MMORPGS since like 1998, and I have to say that I have been buying much less games since then. I have friends who used to know release dates of games etc... and now they don't know/care what's coming out at all since they have started playing Final Fantasy XI.

Recently I stopped playing WoW and I started getting excited about games again. Plus I have much more free time hehe.

Thats not the preferred nomenclature

All games are about a sense of accomplishment. I'm not saying that there's not the points that Chris makes, about being in a world, being part of a story. Certianly that factors in, and indeed makes the best games out there what they are. But hitting level 60 is an accomplishment, beating Ninja Gaiden is too. Beating any game or farming any RPG be it Diablo 2 or WoW for cool items translates to watercooler talk at LAN parties. Even if it's a non-story action game like Doom 1 or Mortal Kombat, you're still palying it to get that cool 5 hit combo or to blow away that next monster.

But this Pachter guy makes it sound like any form of escapism is 'opiate for the oppressed masses' or something. Any time you watch a movie or read a book (that's not a textbook) it's escapist.

The shack is my tsunami MMORPG.

Hrm, if ALL I did was play MMORPG's for 20 hours a day, I might agree with this. However, I don't. Nor do any of my friends...well, ok, one of them does, but I digress...

Gaming, in general, fills the entertainment need. It's what I use to replace TV, booze and illicit drugs. :) I guess that is escapism to some, but no more so than any other form of entertainment.

MMO's will consume your soul.....................nothing more!

(only applies to those with souls)

its funny to see chris unable to admit it. ofcourse anyone who plays a MMORPG does it for a sense of accomplishment in a ficticious world. its not even a insult. goes to show how stupid some people are.

MMORPGs cater to people who are escapist, and? You can't argue spending 20+ hours on a video game based on a social construct/interaction isn't escapist.

However I don't see why its anyone's business to criticize or label people that do as degenerate. Reading books for 20+ hours to escape into a fantasy world etc is the exact same thing depending on the quality of the literature, yet the connotation and perception is entirely different.

It's not different, but MMORPG's are a new thing, and I'm sure to non-gamers a very scary thing. They are addictive (personal testimony), and in comparison to other things you can accomplish with your time they are a colossal waste of time and human energy.

But its our choice, as long as the person is not so weak minded/addicted that they cannot control or pull themselves away, then there's nothing wrong with enjoying MMORPG's. Many of the people who have problems with addiction are prone to it in other walks of life, so its not the fault of MMORPG's but the person who is predispositioned to the behavior.

MMORPG's just give an easy way to point a finger at people who are socially diverted and escapist. Without them the same "addicted" people would be "addicted" to some other type of pursuit...game, book, cards you name it.

How escapisim dodged this bullet I'll never know.

I play games because I wish I was Chinese.

http://www.wedbush.com/

Yeah, they really know the video game industry...