Fruits of Chat

#97
Bullet, reloads and all game specific client stuff is done by the server to prevent clientside cheating. If the reload timer and stuff like that was handled on the clientend, there would tons of \"trainers\" out days after the game is released.
This is how it really goes

Q1&Q2:

client shot...lag wait...server acked anim/sound/shot/reload timer starts...client shot

Q3:

client shot/anim/sound...lag wait... server acked/shot/reload timer...client shot

The client side weapon prediction in Quake3 is only there to give newbies the impression that lag isnt really there. And that their shots fire right away, even though nothing really happens until your action reaches the server. It just seems like lying and hiding the lag to me, and thats why i dont agree with it. Its fine for other stuff, (though most people didnt like the predicted item pickups either), but for something as important as firing your weapon in an FPS, i think it should be as true as possible.

Actually, in Q1 and Q2, there was no such thing as reload timers.
It was linked to the weapon animation frames for timing. The weapon_fire() func was called when the weapon animation was on the designated firing frames.

#106
listen to me : sure it doesn\'t help , smoothing out other players , ect but it helps your weapon shooting

half life Starcraft Tribes Homeworld Quake2 Quake3 lan party... 10693 North Dearborn Road INDIANA 1pm - 1am be there!

BTW , Carmack reduced client-to-server bandwitch by 35 % .
AFAIK this means that 35 % more packets can be send per second , so the weapon lag already has decreased by a third

Hey, so this is feedback about a couple different games, right? Well, at the risk of turning on the gas and pilot light, here\'s a reason by Duke Forever might\'ve gone Unreal:

http://www.planetunreal.com/realworld/terrain.html

Big environments. Remember \"The Abyss\" from Duke3D? The canyon level with the San Andreas fault.

Once again , from q3feeback auto-replier ( I hope they tell the truth there and can really improve it ) :
The game uses very advanced client side prediction that masks almost all lag
issues. When you experience a \"stall\" after firing this is normal because
gunfire is not predicted. We are working hard to improve this as much as
possible.


One of the main things we\'re looking at in the test is improving and fixing
the client based predictive coding. Once we\'ve got that airtight we\'ll be
working a lot more on getting the network data compressed.
\"

#96, yes, i intially overlooked the fact that you can judge lag from the time you click to the time you see the anim in q1/q2...its just that in battle im pushing the button so crazily that it works better for me to visually see the lag like you can in q3...

My guess regarding this is that, for people who\'ve just picked up the game and don\'t know what they\'re doing, it\'s easier to explain, \"Your shot can\'t be fired due to the time it takes for the shot command to get to the server\" than it is to explain an answer to, \"Why does it wait before firing my gun? That\'s so frustrating!\"

It\'s probably just to keep people from thinking something\'s broken that isn\'t .. for example, the mouse. The \"pissed\" factor is lower, but the \"missed shot\" factor is higher.

wouldnt q1/q2 go like this:

client shot...lag wait...server acked anim/shot...reload wait...client shot

and q3 like this:

client shot/anim...lag wait/reload wait...server acked shot...client shot

the point i was actually trying to make tho is sometimes you may hit the fire button when the railgun isnt reloaded yet...in q3 you will know this immediately (no anim) whereas in q1, q2 you would wait a bit for the anim/shot and then realize you screwed up when it never happens...

Wow, is that Zoid as in 3wave CTF zoid?!? :)
He was my hero in the Quake days.

-J

#92, read #78

and i never said the way q3 is now is more accurate, i said it is equally inaccurate to server acknowledged weapon anims...i said i think the way it is now is better for predicting your lag because you can see your weapon anim when you fire and then you can see your shot projectiles/splashes after the server acks your shot...

Maybe someday I\'ll hear some of these \"good songs.\"

Sure he may have touched a few children but come on people....
its MICHEAL JACKSON... MICHEAL JACKSON

he\'s brought us so many good songs

Yeah, they happen in many different things, but I\'d always notice it when exiting Quake II. Thanks, Carmack, for fixing this up. You get a gold star.

Gamespy seems to be an offender too in that respect. Then again, Gamespy crashes every couple times I use it anyway.

No skeletal.

That could be what Valve discovered while developing HL. It took longer than originaly expected, and caused delays.

id is close to being finished, and skeletal anim. would undoubtedly cause last-minute problems, as I\'m sure Carmack discovered. Thinking about putting it in towards the end of the dev. cycle was kinda odd anyway. What was he thinking - not even the Mighty Carmack could pull that one off.

Thanks!

-Lex

I\'m not a religious man, so I\'ll just say:
HALLEJULIA!

#77
Heh, I dont think CliffyB is acting up a role, he IS that way.
remember that pimp outfit and the gold chain in that Tournament pic ?

And not that i really care, but i was under the impression that art was done 3,4 months ago when it was 99% done and the only thing left were bugfixes.

#80
the first time i exited out of the Sin demo, i saw like 12 of those.
q1 and q2 had never done that for me, was pretty messed up.

I just hope that Quake III doesn\'t use that new DirectX function introduced in 98, DirectSpawnLittleEmptyTaskbarWindows. That irks me.

#76, i was actually just asking a question...which you answered, so thanks...personally i dont care about pl either way...

as for your other point about being able to judge lag in q1/q2 by the time it takes from the time you click your mouse button to the time you see your shot fire...good point...but, what about the railgun which has a long reload time...say you hit the button before it reloads and then you wait a bit for your shot to register but it never does...then you realize that you didnt wait long enough for the rg to reload...the way it is know you know if/when your click goes thru instantly...

Is it just me or is cliffyb a complete dork. Everyone is talking frankly about games and what not and then there cliffy:

<CliffyB> Diehard: The UT art is done baby.
<CliffyB> Diehard/Shine: But we\'re looking for dope artists anyways. Send resumes/portfolio links to: recruiting@epicgames.com
<CliffyB> Diehard/Shine: Not a lot. Final tweaks.


Uh is he rehearsing for a talk radio gig or what? He\'s trying so hard to be hip that it just sounds creepy and disturbing...LOL

I have more respect for Romero after reading how all his criticism is his own fault. Sounds like he\'s busting his ass now though.

#73
Heh, I\'ll take the liberty of answering that.

by implying that adding PL to the scoreboard would actually cause a noticable increase in traffic.

re: #54
With skeletal animation, you wouln\'t be able to see the Orbb tap its fingers on the ground while he is idle. Now that would suck. I\'m glad that skeletal animation is out. The models can breathe and stuff now.

i think you got the wrong idea about skeletal animation.
you can have orb tapping its fingers, hell you could even get
the exact same thing you see in character studio if done right.
i\'m thinking carmack went back on the skeletal idea cuz of development
time and pehaps the speed/complexity hit was more than gain in memory savings.

i hope for next project the spend some time researching that, and
give us some ik-no-feet sliding-skeletal-animation-bouncy-breats lovin\'
if not, i\'d love to do it for them =)

#64
Player names are NOT sent just one time.
Try an experiment, go to a server where your ping is > 300ms. Once you are in the game, press tab to see the scoreboard. You\'ll see the headings and all which are drawn clientside (though they werent in Q1 and Q2). But you wont see ping/names/scores or even the number of the players until the server sends you the info.

If you think that drawing PL on the scoreboard when its eats up bandwidth, then i have no idea what you think about the player ID and the attacker icon on the topright hand side everytime you are shot at.
That info is sent by the server everytime while you are actually playing the game, as opposed to just looking at the scoreboard.

You might have other reasons why you don\'t want Packetloss to make in the game, but arguing that it eats up bandwidth is plain stupid.

as for this

\"if they delay the animation like they do the shot then everything is consistent, but everything is lagged giving you no idea how lagged you are...make sense? \"

You mean that all the people who play Q1 and Q2 dont have any idea how lagged they are ? Umm, okay, I guess everyone in the world is too retarded to notice the time it takes for your weapon to fire after youve pressed the fire button. That gives you a better idea of how lagged you are IMHO, because there is no client side effect lying to you that the weapon has already fired, when in fact, it hasn\'t.

#72, please point out where