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Duke4 Not A 2003 Game
by Steve Gibson, May 29, 2003 7:25pm PDTWell here is some news I'm sure you guys werent expecting. A recent investor conference call for Take2 has revealed that Duke4 is in fact still not ready to ship, but even more so it looks like it wont show up for this holiday season either! Here's the quote:
"Analyst: Regarding Duke Nukem Forever for the PC, any chance - any possibility under the sun - that we see that this holiday season? Or at what point do you guys just pull the plug on that? Take Two: I think in terms of possibilities under the sun for this holiday season, the answer to that is 'no.' With regards to next year, we're in a wait and see mode at this point. You know, last quarter we wrote it down substantially, so we generally already pulled the plug. And right now we're just hopeful that the team in Dallas will finish it."The conference call also mentioned that Take2 would be scaling back their E3 presence next year and they are hoping for a Max Payne2 release around January of 2004. Also the mysterious Manhunt game is coming out by October of this year. Thanks Chris! note: The pull the plug comment does NOT mean the game is cancelled at all. Also Scott Miller had some insight into the finance side of things when the write-downs were announced a while back.
Comments
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Game development is not just code or data. It's the development of an idea into code and data. If they were thrashing out ideas for DNF in 1997 then they're developing the game. It is more than simply thinking about them in your head, but when you get someone to sit down and do a mock-up humvee for a PCGamer article, you're developing that idea.
The fact of the matter is that 3DRealms told the world in 1997 that they were making a new Duke Nukem game. The world has waited for it for 6 years, not 5."
The difference between them screwing aroung with the Quake 1 engine and the Quake 2 engine, is that they licensed the Quak 2 engine, they never actually licensed the Quake 1 engine, they simply evaluated it.
As for the 12 million dollars, Take 2 spend publishing rights, 3D Realms never saw a dime of that money, since it went ot Infogrames.
Someone has mentioned the development cost of DNF, it is only about 5 million dollars because of the small development team early on(especially the first year(1997), when they where only 4 people).
And there ar some people saying that 3D Realms had no hand in the development of Max Payne, that is not true, 3D Realms was responsible for the following thing during Max Payne's development:
Funding the development, 100% from their own pockets.
Negoatiations with the publisher.
Coming up with gameplay ideas.
Giving Remedy feedback on their gameplay ideas.
Play testing it, they got a cd containing the latest build each month.
They came up with the name Max.
They helped develop the character and game concept.
Remedy was inspired by their texture work on DNF.
They helped develop Max Payne as a franchise.
They helped out with marketing.
They sold, and still sell Max Payne on their online store.
They provided, and still provide the official web forums.
Remedy got inspired by 3D Realms work on Prey, especially Preyed wich inspired Maxed.
And becuase of the above they co-owned the franchise with Remedy, until both parties by mutual agreement sold their share of the IP to Take 2, together with a perpetual license for the Max-FX engine.
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Maybe he shouldn't post sreenshots, but maybe something like a .plan that says: "This is what we are working on right now - This is what got done last week - This is what we have left to do". Something. Just something..
George B = teh Derek Smart...
isn't it a little sad when your publisher makes a comment like "And right now we're just hopeful that the team in Dallas will finish it."?
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Freelancer "was" in development for around 6 years.
Halflife2 has been in development for around 5 years now?
TF2 has been in development for around 5 years now?
Doom3 has been in development for around 2-3 years now?
DNF "has" been in development for around 6 years now? More? Less? Dunno.
Make of this what you will.
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The Unreal engine was the first to support DX9 soft-shadowing, which, as far as I know, only the STALKER engine supports right now. It is more advanced than the Doom 3 engine. 3DR can make anything as good or better-looking than Doom 3 with the latest build of the Unreal engine. (There's only one, there is no UT, UT2003 and U2 engine...It's all the same, just different builds, since they're newer, so the engine got updated.) Anyway, the HL 2 engine doesn't even support things like self-shadowing, which there will be in Doom 3, Far Cry, STALKER, Abducted, that LOTR MMORPG game, Deus Ex 2, etc. The graphics in HL 2 are great, but that does not mean that the Source engine is more advanced than other good ones...It really isn't.
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1998 - "Sure, a game of this calibre shouldn't be rushed out."
1999 - "I don't care if they need another year. It's the gameplay that counts."
2000 - "Take a year. Take...oh, hell, take three years. Take four years! Don't even work in 2001, so that you can ensure a no-earlier than 2003 release date."
2001 - "If you talk about releasing this game before the end of the first Bush administration, I'm just going to cover my ears and go MMMMMMMMMMMM"
2002 - "Well, September 11 *is* a hard thing to get over. Put all thoughts of shipping out of your heads. Oh, and if you were going to have a level where Duke is piloting a giant boob-shaped airplane in its nipple cockpit straight at the WTC? Er, leave that part out. Have him fly the tit craft into something else. Better yet, just have a giant tit. Who cares if it flies."
2003 - "George, George. We're family here! It's OK! It's REALLY OK! Word up, suburban homey! You just keep POLISHING that diamond, and one day your Dukey Wukey will take his place in the, er, pantheon, hehehehe, of video games that took longer than a college education."
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ugh.
I hope DNF rocks, but how could it after so much design disjunction/messiness due to time and reworking? Guess we'll have to wait and wait and wait and see.
George definitely has balls the size of small lunar objects though considering his take two comments. This is me reading them: 0_0 hehe
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I was feeling for 3DR until you opened your mouth Scott. All we have heard is 3DR's arrogant "when it's done" for the last several years now. I remember pissing off George with some smart@$$ comments on the Stomping Grounds message boards about 3 or 4 years ago. It seems like a lifetime. In the time since DNF was announced. I have done a lot, relocated, had a successful career in the electronics manufacturing industry, married, relocated again, and settled down in my home. Life has went on.
Sorry man, but almost 7 years has made all of us skeptical. At least Romero finally put his game out, he also lived with the consequences. I have had faith in the past that 3DR had the capability to deliver a game that equaled DN3D in terms of fun and creativity, I guess I was wrong.
I hate to be a jack@$$ but it has to be said, a little less time reading shacknews message boards and a little more time making DNF and we would all be happy. The consumers are out making the money in anticipation of buying your title so get back to work and make all of those who have paid faith to you (the fans, take2, and myself icluded) happy that you have wasted all of your time making us wait.
Panic
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What if tomorrow DNF could be released?
Isn't that we're hoping for?
Isn't that we're waiting for?
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Everyone knows the game has been in the making for a long damn time but... I mean DAMN. It's just getting silly now. All this time people were complaining, I just thought to myself... come on guys... let them just work at it and get the game done in their own time. But now when I think of it... during the time this game has been in development many excellent games have come and gone. And I'm not talking about quick little shareware games.... off the top of my head I can think of titles like... Neverwinter Nights... Halo... GTA 3 and Vice city... Morrowind... these are huge.. immense... large... complicated, great games and have come and gone and DNF is still being made... it's getting to the point where DNF better just be the best freakin game ever to exist... or 3d Realms are just incompetent. I'm really hoping for the first one.... but I'm starting to have doubts.
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So it's been in development from 1997-2004 if then even. sheesh
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-X
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http://www.shacknews.com/jazz/search.x?user=GeorgeB3DR
and this just just one web site...
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Come on. It's not like they OWE you anything. They're trying to be nice and post things on forums and all you guys do is make them regret it. Fucking wankers.
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http://www.shacknews.com/ja.zz?id=5219127
http://www.duke4.de/pic.php/gfx/screenshots/dnf-unreal11.jpg
http://www.duke4.de/pic.php/gfx/screenshots/dnf-unreal09.jpg
http://www.duke4.de/pic.php/gfx/screenshots/dnf-unreal07.jpg
(although I have to agree these screenies look far more dated than expected).
If 3d Realms had these graphics 2000, they're going to rock in 2004.
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So new engine = more time = people spending money on other games and keep loosing interest and just making a mockery of 3DR...
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http://www.zocks.de/images/db/2000/06/2000-06-17-196_orig.jpg
http://www.3drealms.com/duke3d/images/dukesmurf2.gif
http://e3.persistengine.com/e3_2000/images/fullsize/duke_fk.jpg
http://e3.persistengine.com/e3_2000/images/fullsize/duke_df.jpg
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When I was writing that Take Two was already giving up on the title with the write off, I remember quite a few people saying "oh no, they just had a really good quarter with Vice City. This is just a business movie."
If anyone wants to admit that I was right and you were wrong, I'll accept it now.
(ps, yes I'm being an ass but god, some people are so dense)
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