The Matrix Reloaded Thread 2

all those doors thing reminded me Monster Inc. lol!!

Here's my take on the purpose of Zion.
The architect states that there are certain people that have problems accepting the matrix. These "anomalies" of the equation adversely affect the matrix causing instability. Anomalies create a chain reaction on the matrix causing even more anomalies and thus making the matrix unstable which, undeniably, isn't a good quality to have in a power plant. Therefore, the machines need a way to solve this instability of the matrix. So instead of simply killing those that wake up, which was my original solution, they instead are saved by members of Zion. Zion is created and maintained simply for keeping the matrix free of anomalies. By using the guise of war against the machines(1984 anyone?), Zion citizens actively seek out those who can free themselves of the matrix(anomalies) in order to join the war thus riding the matrix of the anomalies and creating a more stable matrix program. Zion helps to keep the matrix stable in this respect, and is an essential part of the process. Every one-hundred years or so, Zion becomes too large, too heavily populated and thus needs to be flushed. The machines then drill down to Zion and eliminate the humans that are there, and allow them to start over seeing as how Zion is still needed to help maintain the matrix. Again the process repeats, but why does Neo have a 'choice'(see: The illusion of Free Will by Baron Holbach) of what to do? Why does Neo get to choose what happens to Zion? Perhaps it is a part of the machines study of man. They are our products, but a constant argument of AI is that machines can’t feel emotions. Maybe this is their throw at learning to be emotional, so they run this "The One" exercise through each course of the process to study the human psyche. They study in the hopes that they might be able to understand the process and thus fully become superior to humanity. As it stands now, even though the machines may have been endowed with the spirit of man, it would seem that they can't tap into it.

if neo is in the real world then how on earth did he emit a physical EMP? he HAS to be in the matrix still.

Hello all!!!


I got to see the film for a second time last night. For those that have only been able to see it once, I would sugest getting back and "Relaod" the film. This is such a deep movie, with so much going on that to expect to be able to absorb the whole thing is probaly to much to ask any coopertop.

I agree with most of the logic that has been used to deduct teh various out comes of what is happening ont he screen. Im not convinced that zion is another false reality to catch the %.1, however that therory is well thought out, and does not have meany holes other then that people dont like it.

Anyways, what I realy wanted to point out is that the second time around you can realy concentrate on all of the important talks that happen in the movie. These are some of the things I took away the 2nd time....

1.When Smith says to him self "Its proceding exactly like befor" "Well not exactly"... he is refering to the fact that he is different...not NEO... or atleast he is not directly talking about Neo. Although you could draw the conclusion that Neo is defferent, because of the "contamination" or because of his love for Trinity... however the tone and exprestion in the shot realy point towards Smiths new ability to copy....

2.Morphius is Religon... he is the preacher who is questioning his own belifes. What he thought was true, now only causes him pain and confusion. I think in the end he will be correct, that Neo is the one who will save humanity, it just wont be in the way he invisioned it...

3.Purpouse - every thing has a purpouse in the Matrix, and every thing neads a purpouse. Smith wants one, Neo wants one, Morphius is strugling also because he no longer has one.... The Key maker dies right after compleating one... the orical might have created her own after she acpomplished teh Architects goals..... This is such a larg part of the movie. Just about every program in the Matrix talks about it at one point or another... Even Niobi, who is told by Lock(dead bolt lol) to stay out of the search for the Neb, neads a purpouse(she volentiers to go!)... Even the Architec has one...

4.Why - why is the power! This is another HUGE part of the movie. What I thought was realy clever is that the Architec trys to throw Neo of with this. That is Neo's first question, befor he even askes the Arc tells him it is erelivent, and in some ways it is...the out come is what is important to the Architect, not how or why... to Moroving(sp?) why is all that is imprortant.... so which is it? I guess it depends on if your an Architec, or a program... the program wants to know why, so he can understand his choices.... teh Architec only cares about the end result... very interesting, and a point that I nead to digest some more..... baking the noodel even...

5.Love - this is probaly the theme that is most obvious from start to finnish. It is realy the thing that makes Neo v0.6 different.... My only real problem here is that it almost sounded like the Architec said he made it so Neo loved this time around. Im not sure I buy that. Unless he told the Orical to set him up. I mean, it shore seams more like the Orical did the fixing up, by telling Trinity that she would fall in love with the one. Obviously the Orical worked for the Architec at some point, and posibly on this particular varience in teh Ones coding. I guess I was just a little confuesd...any thoughts?

6.Smith - Smith is the key...he is a program that has been contaminated by a human... obviously he is going to play a huge role in how the Humans and Mechiens form a new symbiosis... You nead to listen to the conversation he and Neo have right befor the 100 smith dance... He says some thing to the effect that they are the same..that they are both free, then he says that they are not! He flat out tells him that he is not free... is he saying the real world is not real? or just saying that having to live in zion is not freedome?

So those are the main things I pulled from the movie. THere are lots of other little things that tie into religon, and belife systems...as well as homages to old movies and ganeras....

The movie raises more questions then it answers realy.... we dont have enuff info to figure out if the "blue" world is real..or a catch for the %.1.

A couple of other quick things that I noticed this time int he Arch speach.

1.When chosing the 23 peopel to rebuild, He never says that Neo will lead them, or be with them... Neo is to go back into the Matrix, while the 23 he choses go to zion... he must stay so his code gets assimalated into the matrix, and the cycle starts over.

2.Near the end of there conversation, while Neo is trying to decide what to do, The Arch says "Chose the right door and you will save your race" He never says, you will save the Human race here... are you folowing me? they could be pointing to the fact that Neo might be a program... and that Going in the right door will save th Machien/program race.......

So, thats where Im at now... I tryed to leave most of the stuff that has been covered well on the boards already. Please comment and add to this... I feal there are some great thinkers on this board...however I dont expect any answers to my questions untill November; )

fuck that really throws a twist on filming :( :(
http://us.imdb.com/Bio?Foster,%20Gloria

Here is my take on what the scene with Neo stopping the squiddies is all about.

Reality is like a giant computer. The emerging discipline of Information-Physics is looking at the physical world from the perspective of information systems. The basic theory that some are putting forward is that the universe is basically made of pure information. i.e. the bit are the basic building block of our universe and that every thing we experience as physical reality is simply changes in the the code. Computer code is special in that it is understandable by a processor. When compiled into binary for a binary processor to understand it is a subset of all binary information. In the same way, the laws of physics are a special code that when compiled is that subset of binary information that is manifest via reality (the processor) as the perceivable universe. Not all combinations are valid (just like program code with errors will not compile).

Since the Matrix is a purpose built simulation of the universe, of reality, the code probably approximates the encoding of our real universe in what we know as the laws of physics. Neo's mind has learned the rules of the Matrix and how to manipulate, exploit or circumvent them through some "hacking" which is never explained (and consequently this means you will be disappointed that you can't hack the real world. It is the big suspension of belief required to enjoy the Matrix films and one that is surprisingly rarely asked by most people: How the HELL can Neo even hack the Matrix?).

Now, at the end of Reloaded, Neo is finding that he has a sense of the workings of the real world and can now begin to maniupulate/exploit/circumvent the laws of physics too, becoming, in effect, God-like. This should not be surprising as the universe is made of pure information. Mind itself may even be an emergent property of universe, just like light, electrons, trees and cars are. Just as he can hack the code of the Matrix he can see and hack the code of the rea world.

The Matrix in the end was a catalyst for the one to gain this understanding that the mind can control reality (though probably NOT other minds). This would make sense as the Architect states that various versions of the Matrix were not approximate to the real universe and also, code from previous 'the one's has been used in the previous updates to the Matrix. It has taken 5 reloads and this 6th 'the one' to get to the point (probably with the Oracles help via her dealing Trinity into the mix) for the Matrix to reach the point where it can act as this catalyst for the one overcoming not only the Matrix (ho, hum, he already did this the first 5 times) but indeed reality outside the Matrix.

Where does Smith fit in? Smith for a start has hacked the mind of Bane in order to move from the containment inside the Matrix to being able to move more generally through any information system - vis-a-vis the real world. His hacking of a human mind is a fairly primitive method for the moment and I would not be surprised to see him reach a similar point to Neo and hence manifest as Agent Smith in bodily form outside of the Matrix in the real world that contains Zion.

I think Agent Smith's aim is to be the sole mind in the universe or at least the one dominant over all others. I think the third film will be the battle between the evil Smith who wants to remove all life from the real world so he can construct his own reality unencumbered by others and Neo who, being a loving being will seek to bring about a reconciliation of man and machines and a peaceful co-existence.

This peaceful co-existence is what Neo will see as the obvious conclusion from the realisation that the universe is just information. He will see the distinction between man and machine not blurred but obliterated. Neo will realise that the humans and the machines are no different. Humans are just biological machines and both humans and robots are simply minds interacting with information via their bodies. Predjudices will be broken down as they ought to have been by the time the robots approached the UN in the first Animatrix episode and peace will ultimately ensue. The reconciliation will probably be bought about as the humans and machines are forced to co-operate to defeat the new menace of Smith who wants to destroy everything.

The Architect, for what it's worth, is I think just clueless. :P

Air Elijah

I saw the movie last night.

Loved it.

Thought the cave/love scene was unnecessary.

Love the Architects twist thought it was a brillient twist and explanation for a lot of things.

cant wait for the next.

Okay -- here's a wild theory that I haven't heard anyone else come up with yet. Let me know what you think.

The world in which Zion exists is another matrix-like reality, but designed by humans to control the machines. The machines are oblivious to the fact that they are slaves in the real real world, and the humans actually won the war long ago. Perhaps the people who originally invented AI weren't stupid enough to lose control over it and had taken measures to prevent a machine rebellion from being successful. Now the machines are being forced to perform their functions in the real world at the hands of the real humans, all the while believing that they are controlling the humans inside the Zion world through the matrix. All of the "humans" in the matrix are actually sentient programs designed to appear human to the machines (and to believe that they are themselves human). Here are some other ideas that would be consistent with this theory:

* The Smith clone was able to transfer himself into the Zion world because he could overwrite a human program in that reality as easily as he could overwrite a human program within the matrix. He didn't know this was possible before his mind was freed by Neo, though.

* Neo has powers in the Zion world because his program is becoming aware of the reality in which he exists and will eventually be as powerful there as he is in the matrix.

* No one in Zion knows how the machines on the engineering level work because no one there built the damn place. It was put in from the beginning by the human architects just like the cities were put into the matrix in the beginning by the machine Architect.

* The councilor that took Neo down to the engineering level might be a human from the real real world whose job is to keep everything running smoothly in the Zion reality. Just like the agents control the government in the matrix, the humans control the government in Zion.

* Neo gaining powers in the Zion world will inevitably cause trouble for the human architects. The sentient human programs as well as the machines will learn of the prison in which their minds exist, leading to the eventual cataclysmic failure of the Zion reality. It sounded like the councilor may have seen this coming and was trying to convince Neo that the humans and machines must accept their interdependence so they can leave the Zion reality and coexist peacefully in the real real world.

Here's my theory.
I think that at the end when Neo goes into a coma that he has simply gone back into the matrix without the use of a jack. Evidence to support this idea is in the trailer that follows the movie. It starts with Neo waking up in the matrix on the floor. When the hell else do we see him do that? Since he entered this way, maybe he can't leave through their traditional method and gets trapped. I say this because somehow someone captures Neo, because in the trailer Trinity says "give us neo or...". I'm also thinking that he may end up sacrificing himself to safe the humans. Next I believe that is the same that happened to the "human" Smith when he went into a coma. Smith and Neo are connected because they each infected one another at one time. Smith also stated this. Much like how Neo's real central mind controls his matrix form, smith has a central form controlling all of the other smiths at one time, so each one is not a "new" smith, they are similar to appendages. When Smith goes into the real world, he bridges the gap between the real world and the matrix, since he can still control the appendage (the "possessed by smith" human bane), and since Neo and Smith are connected, it bridges the gap for Neo as well. I don't know exactly how the wachowski's plan on explaining why that enables him to affect the sentinels yet, though.
I think it could be highly possible that Neo is a human with a program downloaded into his mind like smith has done to bane. In the first movie there is foreshadowing for this idea when tank refers to Neo "he's a machine" when talking to Morpheus during his training. Which on a funny note, may be why the wachowski's cast the nearly facial expressionless Keanu (I'm not Keanu bashing, I think he did a great job). I'm also thinking that the oracle and her bodyguard Seraph are possibly good. In the trailer from the game, morpheus says "He fights for us", likely refering to Seraph. Although it would be interesting if somehow he was refering to smith. And possibly he could be refering to Neo if perhaps, Neo finds out that he is a program, but decides to continue fighting for humanity.
On another note, Persephone, in my opinion is the mother of the matrix. First, the look on the architect's face and the way he dismisses the oracle with "pleeease!", and then continued speaking of her. I found it unusual that Persephone said that she knew love once and spoke of such emotions, although she is a program, but if she is the program that the architect described then she would likely be capable of such feelings.
All in all I think that smith is the X-factor. He's the thing that has caused Neo to act differently than his "predecessors". The fight in the rain from revolutions looks very interesting, and I'm curious as to why it's one on one.
Any questions or thoughts...

Is the Oracle bad?

I'm slow. It took me 2 times to fully understand the first matrix.

If the "One" is supposed to fufill the prophecy and the oracle helps the prophecy along. Isn't she bad?

If the old guy explained it I missed it. I zoned out staring at the moles on the tips of his eyelids.

<SPOILER> <spoiler> spoiler. The whole thing is a spoiler. Read on if you dare.

I have figured out the matrix and where it is going...

You see, it is a story of Pinochoio... a puppet that wants to be human. Let me explain.

Neo, like Agent Smith, is a program. Agent Smith learned to copy himself to others in the world of the matrix. He got this ability from Neo. Neo is an anomaly, a glitch that merged itself into the mind of Anderson. Anderson, with code from the anomaly, is able to copy himself, but he simply has not learned how. He knows he can merge himself into others (hand pumping Trinity's heart, flying into Agent Smith), but he doesn't know he can copy himself. It simply has not occurred to him. Smith, on the other hand, has become what he despises most, a virus-- a virus spreading that is like "the smell" of humans that Smith hates.

Now onto Agent Smith. Agent Smith is Pinochioio. Agent Smith hates being a protector of the Matrix-- he states it in the first film as he tortures Morpheus. He goes as far as to state that he wants to be free. He wants choice. He wants to essentially be human, not a puppet. The ability to copy himself has given him just that. By copying himself over the mind of every person in the matrix, Agent Smith will eventually control the lives of all the machines in the real world. There is evidence to support this in the trailer for the third film as there are two columns of endless lines of Agent Anderson's watching the fight in the rain between Agent Smith and Neo.

The truth is that Anderson wants to kill all the humans in the matrix. By possessing them and by essentially killing the clones, he kills the humans, which in turn kill the machines that use them as battery cells. Humans can only provide machines with energy so long as they are alive-- so long as they provide brain activity-- energy. By taking over ever human, he kills those humans because now their minds are erased. All he has to do is release himself from their bodies-- note that the crew that Bane belonged to could not detect that Bane had his mind wiped out and taken over. Anderson is trying to destroy the matrix. He even hints at it in the second film when he tells Neo, "You and I want the same thing."

However, if the matrix is destoryed, apparently so is Agent Smith. Agent Smith, however, possessed Bane, the guy on the table across from Neo at the end of the film-- the guy who carved an 11 on his hand. By coming into the real world, Agent Smith has found a way out of the matrix-- a way to survive. He wants to be a survivor with free will. He carves the 11 on his hand. What does this mean? At the end of the film, a crew is discussing with Morpheus the fact that a counteract measure involving five ships was defeated. The only survivor was Bane/Agent Smith. In the convesation between The Architect and Neo, the Architect tells Neo to choose 23 people to populate the next Zion. Although I do not know what 11 signifies, I do know that the 11 is the sign that Neo would have to use to allow the 23 people to survive. Neo would cut the sign onto their hand, which, in turn, those who had the mark would be allowed to live when the machines wipe out Zion.

Back to Agent Smith wanting to survive. Who does he want to survive with? No one else. This is why he sabotaged the counteract measure Zion had in plan for the machines. He hates humans. He wants to see Zion fall, and then he'll kill all the cloned Smiths in the Matrix. He wants the machines and Zion to die. He wants to rule the real world by himself.

Ultimately, what I see happening is that the machines will call for Neo to help them. As the old council guy said, machines help humans to live. In the animematrix, a few robot ambassadors only wanted one simple thing: to co-exist with humans. Instead, humans destroyed them-- they could never trust the humans after that. In the end, I see a world in which humans and robots co-exist and the robots find another power supply. Humans are freed, Smith is defeated, yeah!

Okay, what else is left to cover in the world of the Matrix. The council members are the ones who were chosen around 100 years ago to survive the last fall of Zion. There are 11 or 12 of them. The other half were adults that took care of them as children. The adults are dead by now. The children don't have machinery built into them because they were born in Zion and never fed to the Matrix. They don't have any marks.

The first matrix was too perfect, humans rejected it. The second matrix was torture, humans rejected it. Just like the current matrix which is enforced by Agent Smith's, the second matrix also had its enforcers (vampires, ghosts, etc.) In fact, we meet two ghosts (the twins) and a set of vampires. Phoserus, the cute lady who smooched Neo, she used a silver bullet to kill a vampire in Reloaded. The other vampire ran away. Unlike others who believed that the Waschowski bros. didn't deliver full vampires-- to an extent, I'm glad. To see fangs, to see a vampire chew on another human-- that just would not have been Matrixish. I've seen fangs. I've seen vampires eat humans in other movies. To have shown that would have been repetitive. Go Waschowski's! Merovingian is not a previous Neo. He is simply a code creator-- the architect plans the matrix, build its the constructors who code the matrix. Like construtros of the colusseum, I believe that Merovingian simply wanted to keep some keepsakes from previous versions of the matrix.

The Oracle is good. She even states that she is good when she, as well as the Architect, notice that this Neo will choose to save Trinity and not Zion. The Oracle is actually happy, and you can see it on her face, that Neo chooses a path unlike the previous Neo's. She states that it is interesting-- and to an extent proud of Neo as he will make the right choice.

The real world IS NOT a second matrix. Neo's realization that he can shut down the machines in the real world is nothing more than the truth that underlies Neo, as well as Agent Anderson. Somehow, they have a direct connection to the Matrix. The machines in the real world have a connection to the matrix-- which in turn is the network flow of information that the robots use to get and send information through. It is also where the consciousness of humans lie-- and the source the machines energy to run them.

The truth of the above statement is the following-- both Neo and Agent Smith will die at the end of Revolutions. Why? Because their minds are both programs. All humans used as batteries for the matrix have machinery built into them. Because of this, programs can essentially run inside the minds of humans and control their bodies. How do they connect to the Matrix-- the same way that the machines force their battery cells to connect to the matrix: wirelessly. You see, every bot in the real world lives off human energy. Even the spiders care a human somewhere on them. They pick humans from the fields and use them as energy. While on the machines or in the fields, the conciousness of humans wirelessly transmits to the mainframe that runs the matrix; furthermore, machines can fly throughout the real world. Information must be transmitted wirelessly.

Okay, back to the death of Neo and Agent Smith. The inevitable conclusion of Revolutions is that the Matrix will be destroyed. Since Smith and Neo are both programs that are a part of the Matrix, when the matrix goes down, so will they. Maybe machines won't live in unison with humans after all. Maybe humans will win. Maybe the machines will find another life source. Maybe with matrix destroyed, the machines will be confused, but will be given free will.

Okay. I'm done.

how can one deny the existance of another matrix when the oracle knows about neo's dreams in the supposed real world and when neo's dreams come true

You are all huge nerds.

how can one deny the existance of a second matrix when the oracle knows about neo's dreams in the supposed real world and that neo's dreams came true in the other matrix

ok, what's the deal with the doors?

according to thesaurus man:

door 1 = Zion is destroyed by the sentinels, because it WILL happen, no matter what, Trinity dies, and Neo chooses 23 people to repopulate Zion for the next cycle. No one remembers a thing. The Matrix continues.

Door 2 = Zion is destroyed by the sentinels, and since the Matrix itself relies on the choice of door 1, the Matrix becomes corrupt and every single human being alive dies. He may save Trinity, but not for long.

which is fine, i understand the choice. BUT BUT BUT neo chose door 2, which is the same door all the others chose.....and it didn't lead to extinction before. what's the deal? was there an explanation for this? did the doors change?

ok i think i got confused on one part... after the first fight scene with neo and the three agents, he flies away and comes down onto a building and goes into a room. it looked like an apartment or something and he says where is he? or something similar... wtf is that all about? was he just at the exit or something cause right after that scene it cuts to them coming into zion. that was the only scene i was confused at except the neo killing sentinals

The one scene where the guy who Smith infects is about to attack Neo, could it be that he was merely trying to infect him with some sort of virus? Which is why he cuts his hand?

Fantastic movie visually..loved it. However nothing is perfect and they pushed things with the pole fighting scene. I'm surprised it looked so CG considering the rest of the film was done so well. Neo's coat looked like cheap plastic and it didn't even look like Neo most of the time :/

Umm...If the Matrix MMORPG takes place after the last movie and people are still inside the matrix, doesn't that mean that the matrix will still exist?

What was weird was that in The Architect's Pad all of the neos on the screen were VERY emotive, but the REAL neo was calm, robot-like...

I have an alternative theory to the matrix-in-matrix that can explain why neo is able to stop sentinels in the real world. It is based on the analogy I notice between the Hyperion saga by Dan Simmons and the plot of the Matrix as it is becoming clearer.

In "Hyperion" there is also a conflict between the AI and the human race. The AI also feed off the energy produced by the human brain to sustain themselves. Now, in "Hyperion" there are two fractions among the AI : one that would like to become self-dependent and destroy the human race; and one that would like to live in symbiosis with the humans. The main character in the series is a so-called cybrid, an Artificial Intelligence with part of its conciousness in the technocore, and part of its conciousness in a real human body in the human world. In these books this character was created by the AI.

The analogy could easily be made with the Matrix. Neo was created by a fraction of the AI and consists himself of both an artificial intelligence part and a conciousness in a real human body. His purpose is both to defeat the other AI fraction and to be the bridge between the pacifist AI's and the human race. The fact that he can do superhuman things both in the matrix and in the real world can be explained by the fact that he is actually partly AI himself. The five previous Neo's could be five previous failed attempts to create this cybrid. This time though the process succeeds, because Neo makes the right choice, due to his love for Trinity (also analogous to what happens in Hyperion, the cybrid Keats chooses to become mostly human out of love for a girl).

November will show if this analogy is correct or not, but it is a theory that can explain why Neo can stop the sentinels; that doesn't use a for the broad public hard to swallow matrix-in-matrix concept, and that allows a hollywood-true ending with spectacular fights between Neo and the progressive AI's, Zion and their machines, and with a happy end and a promising future.

why don't they (the machines) just kill off people who don't accept the matrix instead of letting them rebel in Zion?

so like - how did neo stop those sentinels - that's pretty much half the twist right there
i'm betting he used the force while an ewok jabbed him going "yub-yub"

What the fuck are you guys smoking?

Ive seen more then a handfull of comments that said the big agent smith fight looked "OMFG SO FAKE." Well no shit! I thought it was possible to have hundreds of the same person fighting one guy. That is the only part that looked fake.

Each agent smith looked like a real fucking person. He didn't look animated because guess what? He wasnt. They (basically) scanned good ol Hugo and then were able to do whatever they wanted with his body. It did not look FAKE by any means. What the fuck are yall smoking?

The rest of the scenes where shit was happening that could NOT happen did not look overly fake - not by a long shot. THe only thing that looked kinda whack ass was when neo was flying like a bitch at the end and all that shit was kicking up behind him -- there were a few cars floating that kinda looked goofy but thats about it.

Seriously, enjoy the fucking movie.

Here's the entire conversation between the Architect and Neo in text form. It should lay a lot of rumours to rest.

The Full Conversation between the Architect and Neo *Text Form*
The Architect - Hello, Neo.

Neo - Who are you?

The Architect - I am the Architect. I created the matrix. Ive been waiting for you. You have many questions, and although the process has altered your consciousness, you remain irrevocably human. Ergo, some of my answers you will understand, and some of them you will not. Concordantly, while your first question may be the most pertinent, you may or may not realize it is also irrelevant.

Neo - Why am I here?

The Architect - Your life is the sum of a remainder of an unbalanced equation inherent to the programming of the matrix. You are the eventuality of an anomaly, which despite my sincerest efforts I have been unable to eliminate from what is otherwise a harmony of mathematical precision. While it remains a burden to sedulously avoid it, it is not unexpected, and thus not beyond a measure of control. Which has led you, inexorably, here.

Neo - You haven't answered my question.

The Architect - Quite right. Interesting. That was quicker than the others.

*The responses of the other Ones appear on the monitors: "Others? What others? How many? Answer me!"*
(I dont agree with whoever wrote this, I think that the monitors are showing Neo's possible answers, possible hinting that there are alternatives to his actions (and hence the choice issue comes up). Also, the camera zooms in on Neo's current response, showing the choice made.)

The Architect - The matrix is older than you know. I prefer counting from the emergence of one integral anomaly to the emergence of the next, in which case this is the sixth version.

*Again, the responses of the other Ones appear on the monitors: "Five versions? Three? I've been lied too. This is bull****."*

Neo: There are only two possible explanations: either no one told me, or no one knows.

The Architect - Precisely. As you are undoubtedly gathering, the anomaly's systemic, creating fluctuations in even the most simplistic equations.

*Once again, the responses of the other Ones appear on the monitors: "You can't control me! **** you! I'm going to kill you! You can't make me do anything!*

Neo - Choice. The problem is choice.

*The scene cuts to Trinity fighting an agent, and then back to the Architects room*

The Architect - The first matrix I designed was quite naturally perfect, it was a work of art, flawless, sublime. A triumph equaled only by its monumental failure. The inevitability of its doom is as apparent to me now as a consequence of the imperfection inherent in every human being, thus I redesigned it based on your history to more accurately reflect the varying grotesqueries of your nature. However, I was again frustrated by failure. I have since come to understand that the answer eluded me because it required a lesser mind, or perhaps a mind less bound by the parameters of perfection. Thus, the answer was stumbled upon by another, an intuitive program, initially created to investigate certain aspects of the human psyche. If I am the father of the matrix, she would undoubtedly be its mother.

Neo - The Oracle.

The Architect - Please. As I was saying, she stumbled upon a solution whereby nearly 99.9% of all test subjects accepted the program, as long as they were given a choice, even if they were only aware of the choice at a near unconscious level. While this answer functioned, it was obviously fundamentally flawed, thus creating the otherwise contradictory systemic anomaly, that if left unchecked might threaten the system itself. Ergo, those that refused the program, while a minority, if unchecked, would constitute an escalating probability of disaster.

Neo - This is about Zion.

The Architect - You are here because Zion is about to be destroyed. Its every living inhabitant terminated, its entire existence eradicated.

Neo - Bull****.

*The responses of the other Ones appear on the monitors: "Bull****!"*

The Architect - Denial is the most predictable of all human responses. But, rest assured, this will be the sixth time we have destroyed it, and we have become exceedingly efficient at it.

*Scene cuts to Trinity fighting an agent, and then back to the Architects room.*

The Architect - The function of the One is now to return to the source, allowing a temporary dissemination of the code you carry, reinserting the prime program. After which you will be required to select from the matrix 23 individuals, 16 female, 7 male, to rebuild Zion. Failure to comply with this process will result in a cataclysmic system crash killing everyone connected to the matrix, which coupled with the extermination of Zion will ultimately result in the extinction of the entire human race.

Neo - You won't let it happen, you cant. You need human beings to survive.

The Architect - There are levels of survival we are prepared to accept. However, the relevant issue is whether or not you are ready to accept the responsibility for the death of every human being in this world.

*The Architect presses a button on a pen that he is holding, and images of people from all over the matrix appear on the monitors*

The Architect - It is interesting reading your reactions. Your five predecessors were by design based on a similar predication, a contingent affirmation that was meant to create a profound attachment to the rest of your species, facilitating the function of the one. While the others experienced this in a very general way, your experience is far more specific. Vis-a-vis, love.

*Images of Trinity fighting the agent from Neos dream appear on the monitors*

Neo - Trinity.

The Architect - Apropos, she entered the matrix to save your life at the cost of her own.

Neo - No!

The Architect - Which brings us at last to the moment of truth, wherein the fundamental flaw is ultimately expressed, and the anomaly revealed as both beginning, and end. There are two doors. The door to your right leads to the source, and the salvation of Zion. The door to the left leads back to the matrix, to her, and to the end of your species. As you adequately put, the problem is choice. But we already know what you're going to do, don't we? Already I can see the chain reaction, the chemical precursors that signal the onset of emotion, designed specifically to overwhelm logic, and reason. An emotion that is already blinding you from the simple, and obvious truth: she is going to die, and there is nothing that you can do to stop it.

*Neo walks to the door on his left*

The Architect - Humph. Hope, it is the quintessential human delusion, simultaneously the source of your greatest strength, and your greatest weakness.

Neo - If I were you, I would hope that we don't meet again.

The Architect - We won't.

Points you should take from this thing.

1.The anamoly they are talking about are the people in Zion.
2.They are the 0.1 percent of the human race that doesn't accept the revised matrix they are using now.
3. Number 2 isn't a very big problem because they can keep it under control.
4. Neo was created by the machine to study why Number 2 happens, hence his knowledge, emotion and thoughts combined with the oracle's studies of the human psyche are compiled together and sent back to the source for the machine to try to perfect the matrix so that the acceptance rate for matrix becomes 100%.
5. Oracle came up with the theory that the current matrix would achieve a very high acceptance rate if the people were given the power of choice, even if it were on a subconcious level. Like I mentioned earlier, they managed a 99.9% acceptance rate with the current matrix as opposed to the first one where very few accepted and "entire crops were lost".
6. Oracle isn't good or bad, she's just a program doing what she's designed to do which is to help to find The One and get him to the source.
7. Although 0.1% is very low, eventually they add up so the zion needs to purged and matrix needs to be reloaded so to speak, hence the name I guess.
8. All the above has happened 5 times and the matrix was reset 5 times. But this time(6th) Neo chose to risk everything instead of resetting the Matrix. Presumably because he is in love with Trinity.

Feel free to discuss.

OK so if Neo is is supposed to chat with the guy at the end of the road everytime and repoulate zion, why is everyone trying to kill him so badly?

the whole matrix in a matrix is a huge cop-out, if you believe that whats to say there isn't another level of matrix above zoin for the people that figure that out and so on. So you'd have like n-levels of matrices and how could you ever say you were in the real world.

It'd be great it either Morpheus is a bad guy (propgating the "prophecy" that's wrong) or becomes a bad guy now that his dream has been shattered.

you'd think that by the sixth time the machines would have finally devised a way of terminating people as they disconnected from the Matrix. I mean the tubes snap off, an alarm will sound, a machine comes up and blasts them. Problem solved.

Who the hell was that guy left alive that was in the hospital bed next to Neo and how was he able to stop those machines. He said something to the effect of "Something's not right" and did the old hold up his hand to stop the bullets thing and the machines were toast. Either he's still in the Matrix or he's REALLY "the one" because he has these crazy powers outside of the matrix.

Also why is Neo allowed to pick out 16 women and 7 men to restart zion (if he had chosed the other door). Why would the machines want another zion to be created? I know that in order for the matrix to work effectively people must be given a choice: red pill or blue pill. But what purpose do the people that are chosen by the one to live outside the matrix in zion after its destruction serve? Couldn't the machines devise a more reliable route to get the one to find the architect than relying on these humans living outside of their control? What would happen if the one never reached the architect? What if he fell and slipped off one of those ramps way up high? (lol)

They have a lot of explaining to do

MY problem with the movie.

Matrix #1
Neo in the final 120 seconds of the movie for all intents and purposes becomes god.
Agents have nothing on him, invact he can dive into them and kill them - he even scared 2 off.

so,.... why does he go back to standard hand to hand "boy this is hard" 15 minute fight scenes with them again (sigh) - i knew this would happen - they'd portray him less than they did in the originl matrix in the last 3 minutes or so.

he IS super strong according to the matrix 1 movie why is he only partially strong now.

The only thing I go oof about is the fighting. At the end of the first film, we're led to believe that Neo can do anything when in the Matrix. So at the Burly Brawl, I kept thinking, "So pickup that building and fucking drop it on Smith..."\

Anyone else think stuff like that?

Theres been alot of discussion as to why Zion is left to exist.
The answer is rather simple... They are left to proagate the existance of the next anomaly. They are the ones left to hope that the next coming of the ONE will finially end the war.
Morpheous stated in the first movie that there was legend of one who could control the matrix and that he would come again. The prophecy is left to them form the previous ONE, becuase the archtic told the First, second, third, ONE thats it would happen again, just as he told NEO.
Zion is left to exist to help the matrix find the next ONE, the next anomaly, and lead THE ONE back to the source...

Once the ONE is found and brought back into the source Zion can be safely purged.

Zion is about to be attacked by 20million robots with fricken lasers. So lets have a RAVE and trip out on E to prepare!

Not bad...not great either. Which is kinda disappointing. I was expecting to be blown away and just wasn't. :/ X2 was a far superior sequel than Reloaded.

So my question is: ARE THEY GONNA MAKE COMPUTER BOY RELOADED?

That was Australian cinema at it's best.

I love the architect's twist at the end. It makes so much more questions than it answers. I thought that was nicely done.

I get the impression that zion exists only for the purpose of "troubleshooting" the matrix: to find out how and why these anomolies (morpheus, neo, etc) exist, the non-believers.

It's said that on some level everyone is given the choice to A. live docile in the matrix or B. fight against the matrix. I was wondering: why aren't the non-believers just killed on the spot? Or are the robots just horribly obsessed with perfecting the matrix that they risk having dissenters running willy nilly?

here, for all you monkeys, chew on this.

machines take over real world
machines make a matrix
humans create AI in matrix
machines take over the world in THAT matrix
machines make sub-matrix 1
humans create AI in sub-matrix 1
machines take over the world in sub-matrix 1
machines make sub-matrix 2
repeat.
machines

OMG I just thought of this. Smith to NEO do you feel the link we have Liek a piece of me is imprinted on you. Then smith gets to the real world. I am wondering if that link somehow gives neo his powers via using smith as a proxy to the matrix universe or something.