ATI's Next Gen Radeon

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  Lets just see how the driver are. I bought a ATI radeon 8500 w 128 MB of ram in my new rig. Been playing ... : UTSD3DSUCKS
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    yeah, i actually don't have any experience with their drivers, but alone from carmacks words it seems lik... : neo69
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      Yeah I read carmacks plan file,and from it it seems ATI has beenn working on their issue. However, my exp... : UTSD3DSUCKS
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        Turn hardware acceletation to none before running x-com and it will work. : drodver
        • Ahh, never tried that... heh...... : UTSD3DSUCKS
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    Complaining about ATI's drivers is so 2001. : TwiLyght
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      Too bad its 2002, and its still an ISSUE... : UTSD3DSUCKS
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        Just because you have driver problems doesn't mean everyone else in the world does as well. And ATI's dr... : TwiLyght
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          Go to the NWN forum, everyone playing that game DOES have an issue woth the catylysts......... Thanks, bu... : UTSD3DSUCKS
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            Actually BioWare released a patch for the GAME that fixed the catalyst issue. Looks like it was the game... : insta
            • Uhh no they didn't. 1.19 was the version released when the catylysts were, and they sucked. 1.20 JUST FIX... : UTSD3DSUCKS
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    I have to do the same thing with my GF2. : Solar Jetman
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      Wow, that sucks... Never had to with my GF1, which is basically the reason I still have it in my old box.... : UTSD3DSUCKS
      • Dude. Lastest drivers, (Catalyst or non your pick), Rage3D tweak, and some patience and you'll be golden.... : Delithio

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  Euh... you have forgotten the whole 3dfx thing already? Then went from king, to second, to bankrupt. : Sander Pilon
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    Are you saying Nvidia is on the road to bankruptcy? :o : valiance
    • No, he's saying an attribute of the industry is quick leapfrogging one way or another. : xvdl
• The whole radeon line was a massive step. : Delithio
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  Theres this little thing called the xbox that might have had something to do with it. :) : kedz
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    and my motherboard. : Turd Ferguson
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      Yeah what happened to the ATI motherboards they announced? Did they just give up on the idea or............. : UTSD3DSUCKS
      • that would be crazy, ATI boards get released and stomp everything. : Turd Ferguson
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        no, i think they did release a couple of them : -=kodiak=-
        • So they just sucked so bad no one made any kind of deal about them? : UTSD3DSUCKS
  • I doubt it. XBOX basically equals GF4. So they spent some extra resources (hiring more people) and they g... : Sebastian Sylvan
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  So quickly? They've bene playing catch up for years. I don't call that "quickly". Little progress since g... : SERIOUSly the SAMe
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    Well I didn't mean quickly in terms of the length of the period of time they were playing catch-up. I me... : valiance
    • That's primarily because they didn't take the 3d market seriously back in the old days. You'll notice tha... : davew2040

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• AF = anisotropic filtering. There are no benchmarks because ATI requested they not be released. Sigh... : God_Virus

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  I'm letting my system become totally obsolete... it's great for everything, and I can still play games ve... : xvdl
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    Yeah, that's actually my plan, too I got a cheap radeon 8500 so I could play Warcraft 3 and Morrowind, b : freshview
    • I just bought a used dual 866MHz box. This is "low end" by what other people seem to have out there, but ... : xvdl
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    "Maybe id can turn around the stock market" lol, never thought of it, but you are right, so many peopl... : neo69
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      The Carmack == Alan Greenspan for gamers : hangingChad
      • Post of the Day ^^^ : fathertime
      • hehe, great one to sum my post up :-) : neo69
    • Cheers to people who tell it like it is. Double cheers to people who tell it like it is and know what the... : davew2040
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  im still holding back on my geforce 256 sdr with athlon 700 hehe when doom comes out, it might be a 3 gi... : Rageaholic
  • Oh keep hoping that a $200 card can handle Doom III well. Hell a GF3 can hand it! with everything turned : MarksmanX
• That is what I always say to myself. This is the last video card I'll buy-until the next greatest video c... : brutal
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  I haven't come across ONE game that requires a video card better than my gf2 gts. I play/played all the m... : pointchiz57
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    Grand Prix 4. : nudel
    • GP4 makes my 1.4ghz, GF2 ultra system look like a fucking Amiga 500. : nudel
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    so you can play them in something besides fugly mode? : Old_Fart
    • Eh, I just got rid of my GF2 for a gf4 4400 because dungeon siege was making me quesy (sp) : Draugluin

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  Heh... 25% of the bandwidth would be saved, not 33%... A 33% performance penalty occurs if you go with qu... : Sebastian Sylvan
  • yes.. so it would go 4/3 -1 or 33% faster.... : Malk
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  First of all, I doubt the video game engine would like that whole infinity thing. Secondly, the occlusion... : gregorybrown
  • It doesn't have to be infinite. Just far enough away so that you can fit the non-transparent parts of the : Sebastian Sylvan
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  When you say saving bandwidth, do you mean saving bandwidth across the AGP by the fact you're sending one... : koder
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    Bandwidth is saved because you're note sending as many indices and vertices (so yes). Not sure if you'... : Sebastian Sylvan
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      ok but you would need a larger grass texture to be able to get the same amount of texture detail on the g... : koder
      • Why would you need that? : Sebastian Sylvan
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      Alpha blending can be extremely expensive depending on how much surface area needs to be blended. My gue... : Rhyn
      • Yeah, well the idea was that grass is sort of pointy like this \|/ so you could just use that to get a ti... : Sebastian Sylvan
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  Hmmm... that might cause some problems with determining visibility, culling, etc. Think about where you'... : mrtony
  • I can pretty much guarantee you that they're not doing per-poly visibility checks on that anyway. Stick i... : Sebastian Sylvan
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  Quake 1 did its particles with one triangle. Basically, they had a right triangle with the one corner of... : Jack Mathews
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    Particle systems can be done much faster now, with point sprites you just send one vertex across the rest... : koder
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      Point Sprites are not faster than using a single triangle for large amounts of particles. Also, Point Spr... : moshman
      • That depends. Again. If you, in addition to the particle system, are pushing 2 million polys down to the ... : Sebastian Sylvan
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    I may be wrong, but I believe that Quake 1 used GL_POINTS. Using textured quads or triangles for parti... : ThomW
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      No, really Quake did use triangles. You could even see them in game in some glitches. : archon
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        I stand corrected. I just looked at the Quake source and Jack and archon are right. My bad. :P : ThomW
        • Dude, I maintained GLQuake, I should know. :) : Jack Mathews

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• rumors say that NVidia will only use the multi-chip configurations on Quadro cards. : the archvile
• A 2.49x performance ratio is not a "249% advantage". It is a 149% advantage. Please repeat 4th grade. ... : babel
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  that remark was taken straight from the anandtech article. go blame anand... ;) : docco
  • You're right, Anand is the idiot, not you. He had corrected it (to 2.51x) by the time I read the article... : babel

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• For an FPS gaming experience a powerful CPU + Videocard is needed. The Carmack tested Doom III on an Inte : MarksmanX

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• haha, its so true my bro's computer and mine are both amd, and man does it heat up the room : Rageaholic
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  and a monitor cable from Via : Old_Fart
  • lmao, no doubt. (nt) : NoCopy
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  I'd like to see Matrox come through with a Parhelia update either late this year or next spring that actu... : Rev. Trimble
  • The card Rendition was working on when Micron bought them was going to be pretty nice, too bad Micron app... : Old_Fart
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  It seems like all Matrox needs to do is get their core speed way way up on the Parhelia. I really do hop... : valiance
  • I don't know, it seems Matrox is completely dodging the performance issue (and their customers) these day... : NoCopy
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    Anand says it's half the speed of the Radeon 9700. That means doubling the clock speed would more or less... : davew2040
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      its not that matrox needs faster clock speeds and more memory bandwidth, they just need to be able to use... : Turd Ferguson
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        Parhelia has like 16.8GB/s of memory bandwidth... : Toraz Chryx
        • not according to matrox http://www.matrox.com/mga/products/parhelia512/technology/512bit.cfm : Turd Ferguson
• matrox does not really have to worry about anything, they have always been reluctant to enter the gaming ... : Rageaholic
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  hey wait a sec, if it only used 1 W of power it would be the coolest chip ever, a passive heatsink would ... : scharfschuetze
  • a heatsink for a chip that dissipates 1w?.. wtf? the coolest chip ever is the PowerPC 750FX / G3 "Saha : Toraz Chryx
• 3Dlabs are up and coming. Carmack seems to think their new part is worth the effort. : Sebastian Sylvan

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• This is what I said two days ago! But be sure to sell and buy NVIDIA before the NV30 comes out. =) : Sebastian Sylvan
• Buy nvidia stock within the next few months if it goes down from the announcement of the 9700. then when ... : qstormxxx

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• Heh, I'm still using a Kyro II. : z1armedman
• Yeah I usually skip 3-4 generations of videocards before buying a new one. : archon
• I'm using a GF2MX, and I'm starting to feel the upgrade pressure, I shall see how the R9700 looks in a fe... : Toraz Chryx

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  The GF4MX cards sometimes run slower than the GF3 ultra cards... : nudel
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    since there is no geforce 3 ultra and since i'm a little drunk, you meant geforce 2. : noven
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      Ti500 = "Ultra" : insta
      • Yep. (10 chars) : nudel

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  I'm wondering, how many FPS does a GF4 (or ATI's 9700) have in Q3? Past 500? I usually try not to look at... : Insanity
  • I stood in a corner once and it pegged at 666fps. : Old_Fart
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  very good question. It seems like all the good games in development are on a WID basis, and the rest of ... : the archvile
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    whats WID? : koder
    • When It's Done : the archvile
• well there's Morrowind and there's.........Morrowind......oh no that's CPU limited...oh I dunno.... : koder
• that's kinda why i am hoping that Doom 3 will allow the software to finally catch upto the hardware (beca... : kevp
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  Ummm, GTA3? : gregorybrown
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    No way in hell GTA3 pushes this card, or anything recent. Its not THAT great looking in any aspect. But t... : FuryVII
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      wrong. 1280 + 4xAA + full draw distance will push most cards pretty hard. : zyklonbee
      • Hes right! : 666devilman666
• doom 3 little buddy! : Orion
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  Dude, UT2K3 on totally high settings will push your card. : Zillax0rz
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    yes it does will : Old_Fart
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      Why did you sample and cross out the word does? : Zillax0rz
      • read between the lines. :) : sevogajre
      • BECAUSE HE'S A WAREZ MONKEY DUHHH ;) : Magitek
  • What about "Ludicrously High" setting? : gregorybrown
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  You're NOT playing SOF2 at 1600*1200 with 4xAA and 16x anisotropic filtering with a GF4 4600. : Sebastian Sylvan
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    There must be better ways to use all that fill rate. 4xAA at 1600x1200 is pointless. : koder
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      Depends on the size of your monitor =) : Sebastian Sylvan
      • yep, its pretty nice being able to see EVERTHING its amazing what a good 22" (nec fe1250) monitor can d... : Turd Ferguson

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  and then you post in the wrong topic, what a day. : Turd Ferguson
  • ......... ok thats it.. www.bootdisk.com DEATH TO WINME : locobastard

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• Dead or Alive 3 : Melonman0

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• Exactly right. Max settings + MAX resolution = best gaming experience at high framerates. : Slaykill
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  yeah that's why i didn't buy a geforce 4 when it came out, and i still haven't bought one : shizm
  • im still using a gf2gts for that matter. : corey
• Grand Prix 4 needs it. Probably. My new GF4 system hasn't arrived yet but I assume Grand Prix 4 will stil... : nudel

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• I think I am. : ---D1cKy-Mo3---

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• anand certainly has the best preview and the most precise benchmarks, yepp. i guess just because they are... : neo69
• turd,turd I say- not enough sites were allowed to review the video card. : brutal

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  Umm... maybe because you can't buy this card now? And you sure as hell couldn't buy it two months ago whe... : jasoncg
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    Umm its stupid to buy a 4600 when its getting owned all over the place by 9700. Carmack knew this yet ... : BlackGangsta
    • well if one is available and one isn't, i believe that was what he meant. : Turd Ferguson
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      Why buy a computer now when you can buy one 100 times as fast in 10 years? : bigimp
      • OMG REVLEAL'D : Turd Ferguson
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        in 10 years computers will be 10000 times as fast as now. Maybe even faster. : Magitek
        • So you're saying I might as well save up that model now eh? : Delithio
        • i calculate 2 ^ (10*12 / 18) as about 100 times as fast bigimp was righttttttttt : Malk

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• I wouldn't count on it. They could load that baby up with DDRII and move to .13 micron and release as an ... : Sebastian Sylvan
• Perhaps, but the ATI part was showcased running DOOM III tech at E3. At least the average buyer can rest : galvatron

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  If you had read any of the articles you would know that there wont be any NV30 until the november/decembe... : johnny rotten
  • So thats 3 or 4 months later....I don't think 4 months is too long to wait to get the better card. Heck ... : Jimbo Ro
• read the topic you are posting in, it says when : Turd Ferguson

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• Fanboy has become like newbie, llama, and other terms that are now meaningless due to overuse. That said... : Vorlonesque
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  Fanboys love blindly. For instance, a fanbody of id would love ANYTHING they put out, even if it was comp... : airrob
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    Also a fanboy of id (just to use the example) would hate anything that another company put out unless it ... : Vorlonesque
    • Kinda. Only if it were direct competition, for example Unreal Tournament vs Q3. Fanboys made the argument... : archon

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  im a performance fanboy, weeee : Turd Ferguson
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    I am into the combo of performance, image quality, features (TV-in, TV-out), and price. I like parts that... : -=fatman=-
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      well yeah, image quality and other features also come into play. : Turd Ferguson
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        Yeah. I did not mean to imply that you only looked at fps...but I (more than most gamers) am worried abou... : -=fatman=-
        • yep i will be happy with my card for a while, leadtek ti4400 image quality rivals that of the 8500 and g... : Turd Ferguson
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    I am a best-sub$200USD-card-for-the-games-that-I-am-currently-playing-and-will-be-playing-in-the-forseeab... : valiance
    • that should end in: ... forseeable-future-life-of-a-video-card fanboy : valiance
    • and-will-be-upgrading-to-the-whatever-runs-doom3-the-fastest-shortly-after-release : Turd Ferguson
  • Dude, we're all performance fanboys. : Dynotaku

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  AMD reported a huge loss the other day, maybe they "shouldn't" pull an AMD ;) : Erit
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    Intel just layed off thousands of people too. : mofo
    • hehe attrition. : proclone1
    • Intel at least made a profit whlie AMD loses cash every quarter. There IS a difference. -The SAMe : SERIOUSly the SAMe

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  I don't get this whole thing about people being pissed that the latest video card beats out their current... : TwiLyght
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    Well that's where the addiction comes in. See i'm the type who was a little laggy on Deus Ex with my tnt... : kingdepork
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      I run Deus Ex on 30fps (average). As soon as I finish Doom3 with my future pc, the first thing I'll do is... : Insanity
      • Yeah i have a hard time playing through it again. Cuz it was such a huge and frustrating game. But it ... : kingdepork
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    It's disappointing to pay $300+ for the latest and greatest, only to have it not be the latest and greate... : weaselmeister
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      all computer parts get eclipsed by something else in 6 months, and it's usually cheaper too. At some poin... : Old_Fart
      • it was 3 months damn you! And i fully understand your point, but you still feel fucking hollow in the e... : kingdepork
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        Except for monitors. If only Nvidia and ATI got into the monitor market... : gregorybrown
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          No, we want AMD to get into the monitor market, but then we would have to buy cables from Via. : Old_Fart
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            this post is going to give me nightmares .. i can just imagine my monitor shutting off after 30 minutes o : strider_
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              How old is your motherboard because since the kt266a, the Via USB has been rock solid. : Old_Fart
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                kt266. >:( : strider_
                • Looks like you got raped in the.. A-hole! Tee-hee. : insta
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      but if you wait for the next big thing, you'll just be waiting forever. theres always something new an... : emocore
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        Absolutely correct sirs. I know someone who is just like that, he keeps waiting for the next big thing b... : valiance
        • There's a lesson to be learned from that. Give up the absolute best, and spend only enough money that you... : davew2040

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• yep, i wish they had included the 8500 in those benches. : Turd Ferguson
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  IS the Matrox good for GL apps like Max? : Fred Garvin
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    No. The Parhelia sucks ass in every way that has any importance. : pullmyfinger
    • Oh.. except analog 2D output quality. WOOO HOOO!!! :/ : pullmyfinger

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• err, that was supposed to be to #347 : babel

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• Actually, it's down on the TSE (Toronto Stock Exchange).... For a school project I had to follow a TSE... : V3N0M

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• ATI and Nvidia might as well quit and close shop, NOTHING can compare to the AWESOME power of the Glaze3D... : valiance

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  they are gonna come with a 9500 in a few months : Maarten Goldstein
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    Sweet. Do you have a URL or know of the expected price? : valiance
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      Check the final page of Anandtech's article. It'll be out Q4, $150-$200. : nomaad
      • Egg-celent : valiance

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• They're used in things like reflective water. They allow for easy, cheap (on the GPU) effects that look g... : gregorybrown

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  Good point about the drivers, I expect performance to improve at least slightly as the drivers mature. ... : valiance
  • definatly, the 8500 got a decent performance boost once the second set of drivers came out, same thing fo... : Turd Ferguson