Carmack on DOOM3 Hardware

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• Think of twice the number of signals needing to line up in order for there to be a valid address decode.... : jhopkins
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  I think he means that on a 32 bit machine a void * is 32-bit and on a 64-bit machine it's 64-bits. If ... : bostrov
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    Ooops, accidental early post there. My example was supposed to say if you have a function (for example... : bostrov
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      That's not the case though. 64 bit machines don't take twice as long to multiply numbers. Each operand... : Liquid
      • DO NOT QUESTION TEH CARMACK!!1/ : fathertime
      • The memory bandwidth (FSB) is AFIK still the same. If every pointer is 2x the size and you're doing a ... : bostrov
• He didn't say it was slower, he said you don't get a benefit until you pass the threshold of what a 32bit... : verbatim

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  why? so you can have a useless 64bit chip when most things are meant to be run with a 32? : archon
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    How many people need to mention that they will run 32bit apps AT LEAST AS WELL as current chips before y... : jrock
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      Try at least twice as fast at the same clock rate.... : Natoma
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        why at least twice as fast? what about the architecture dictates that the framerate will increase linea... : jaga
        • Clawhammer has a different architecture than the Athlon. Its IPC is much higher than the Athlon and i... : Natoma
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        Errr wrong, 30% quicker than an Athlon MP @ the moment. : abrasion
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          Did you see the Quake III FPS chart that was posted a few days ago? If not, here's the link to the si... : Natoma
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            Err no not really, it's approximate. That's AMD's claims OFFICIALLY btw, 30% faster @ the same clock ... : abrasion
            • One more thing. We've seen that AMD has learned from their past mistakes of over promising, and now ... : Natoma
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            My point, as stated earlier, is that the IPC of the Clawhammer is superior to the Athlon. So at 800Mh... : Natoma
            • Dang that was supposed to be in response to #143 : Natoma
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              My point, as stated earlier, is that the IPC of the Clawhammer is superior to the Athlon. So at 800Mhz t : abrasion
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                <i>No, 41% is 41% - the Athlon MP @ 9000mhz and the Clawhammer @ 9000mhz - the Clawhammer would most ... : Natoma
                • uh, dude, the memory bandwidth to the Hammer has _nothing_ to do with Hypertransport. it has Hypertra... : Toraz Chryx
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                Sigh, I had written something to prove that you were wrong and then realized it was gonna be a waste of ... : [Zoesch^2]
                • Err no, the benchmarks don't prove that . bleep bleep - next try please? (I don't care how technical ... : abrasion
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          Either way, my point still stands - it will run 32bit stuff (very well in fact) so how can you say, "whi... : jrock
          • And by "you" i mean archon. : jrock
  • "Hi, my name is archon, and I've heard about 64 bit chips but since Intel hasn't delivered one they must... : [Zoesch^2]

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• Wow, how did you make that logical leap? The Hammer can run 64bit and 32bit code. A 64bit compile of... : LoveGravy

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• wow you'r smart : BadRespawn

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• uhhhhh : Downforce
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  it improves performance for a lot of cases, but Carmack's engines are typically very memory bandwidth in... : Jack Mathews
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    you have no idea what you are talking about do you? good grief. HAHA I MAKE 3D ENGINE HAHA, what a hack.... : Steve Gibson
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      Personal Attack! Personal Attack! : Chicks Dig Me
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        :) It'd be hilarious if Steve did get banned, and teh carmack took over for a while... : Maddog_Delphi97
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          It could be just like Shakespeare! Loonyboi would be Hamlet, and Maarten would be Gertrude. : Magitek
          • Shackespeare sorry had to. hope i fucked up teh shacktags too... : hal9000
  • me = 0wned for doubting Carmack : jokerman
  • "Carmack's engines are typically very memory bandwidth intensive." Uh, how do you reach this conclusion... : Alf Alpha
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  riight, and every single piece of code, compilers, interpreters, etc would have to be rewritten to use t... : mr brown
  • just the compiler, but they've already done that. : yakz

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  You do realize that Hammer will still be fuckin' fast running 32-bit apps, right? : Stormrider
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    not if it has to emulate 32bit, it will be slower. : special agent smith
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      um, dude, the Hammer is effectively a tweaked up AthlonXP core with an ondie memory controller, hypertra... : Toraz Chryx
      • damn, I've been hanging in newsgroups too much. :p *ontopic* I'm wondering exactly how many SSE/SS... : Toraz Chryx
• bzzt! wrongo! : johnny rotten

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• translation, don't buy a hammer for 64bit gaming. it will still have screaming 32bit processing. : Turd Ferguson
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  Translation: Hammer won't be faster in 64bit mode but will CRUSH everything in 32bit mode. Fragasm, ... : LoveGravy
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    Do you switch the bit mode in the bios? : fragasm
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      nope, you can run 64bit and 32bit apps simultaneously. amd has had a few demos of this. : Turd Ferguson
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        Yeah but why is Carmack saying 64 bit will actually be slower than 32 bit? He doesn't mean the 64 bit c... : fragasm
        • mostly he's saying that he won't need 64-bit. : the archvile
        • His apps will run slower some math intensive (i.e. engineering and scientific apps) may run faster if na... : Fred Garvin
        • Because if it's doing the same thing, the 64bit instructions will be larger and hence need more memory b... : Toraz Chryx
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    but will CRUSH everything in 32bit mode over exaggeration is always good to hype a product up :) : MarksmanX
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      Hey, considering that clock for clock the Hammer has a 38% HIGHER FRAMERATE than the Athlon XP, that's a... : LoveGravy
      • I just find it hard to believe these numbers. Until everything is final I would then take a close look ... : MarksmanX
  • Oops, here's the score: Clawhammer 800: 183fps P4 800Mhz: 111fps P4 1.6GHz: 182fps This is an... : LoveGravy
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    Actually it was an 800mhz hammer beating a 1.6 Pentium 4 by two frames per second. Nice hype though. : Lord BEEF
    • Oh, that's all... ***YAWN*** It's only TWICE as fast as the P4? Wow, that does suck. <<sarcasm>> : LoveGravy
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      Even I find that pathetic on intels 1600MHz just beating a measly 800MHz by two frames. But I do have a ... : MarksmanX
      • Intel's FSB is NOT a true 400mhz. it's 100x4 . : Downforce
    • And it wasn't a p4 1.6 either. It was a non multiplyer locked pre-release p4 running at 1.6. There is a ... : Chicks Dig Me
• Well, 32-bitwise it will be fine. 64-bit, won't help :) : MarksmanX
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  sigh. no. translation: 64bit cpus wont help doom3. there will be applications that greatly bene... : Steve Gibson
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    well, i would think a 64bit compile of d3 would actually help out in a few areas... namely Physics and A... : shackstore.com
    • physics is all fp, ai is integer based (though why you'd need larger than a 32bit integer is beyond me).... : johnny rotten
• The hammer will still run 32bit d3 faster then what is currently out. 64bit doom just wouldn't benefit. : Chicks Dig Me
• I hope it works with the Valve Hammer Editor... : gregorybrown

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• Come on, it wasn't that difficult to understand what he said. : tedv
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  Petition Babelfish? : kaboomite
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    English->Carmack Enter your text: What's up? Processing... Output: Initializiation of communi... : Omaha
    • BAH! Tagged. : Omaha

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  "Anything less than 1ghz is for losers, Doom will format their machine and the soundcard will loop 'fagg : abrasion
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    Be interesting to have Doom install program laugh hysterically at your machine's spec's all the same : kaboomite
    • or monsters that taunt you from behind closed doors hidden in the shadows, "Come on in, little marine, l... : Omaha

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• Yeah, and RAM was 50 bucks per MB... : spl
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  28.8 modem = $200 : Experiment IV
  • used. : booyaka

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• The shack is running on AMD.... so there. : booyaka

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  that would kick a LOT of ass. : []v[]adwacker
  • yes it would! : jedi_27
• and SOF3, gore so realistic you'll hurl! : Turd Ferguson
• That, and Alien vs Predator III as well. Those games have been great, but adding a good engine would hel... : galvatron
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  RAVEN SHOULD BE BANNED FROM MAKING GAMES EVER AGAIN! they shovel shit into the box and sell it, and ... : diddlyd
  • i agree about sof 2, but jk2 was pretty good, the multiplayer is great : gabeevery
  • You're the worst poster I've ever read. Go back to masturbating in the kitchen, foolio. : highlow
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    diddly0 - SOF2 isn't good, JK2 isn't good - but they BOTH get better as you progress (Seriously I hated ... : abrasion
    • The only redeeming thing about JKII, I thought, was the lightsaber. The lightsaber, and lightsaber only ... : Ben Barker
• OMG i totally agree. That is such a sexy idea....... : Jedi SeXpansion

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  If the 800MHz hammer runs Quake3 at the same speed as a 1600MHz P4, then won't a 1.6GHz Hammer get a 320... : LoveGravy
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    Well remember that AMD doesn't use their rating as a juxtaposition to the P4. They use the rating as... : Natoma
    • Good point. After all, until recently their numbering scheme was grossly modest when compared to the P4... : LoveGravy
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  ease down... hopefully it is STABLE and doesn't CRASH like 50% of the current AMD platforms... : Downforce
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    50% of current AMD platforms? Uhm, ok.... : Natoma
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      how many people dread upgrading VIA patches ? having to check the AMD site for DRIVERS ? that is pretty ... : Downforce
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        That's a problem with VIA, *not* AMD. If you're having troubles with VIA, then get an Nforce or SIS ... : Natoma
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          hmmm, that actually is good news. : Downforce
          • Yup, I intend to go nForce...went with AMD this time around and it was good...albeit I should have gone ... : Vorlonesque
      • Via is shit yes, but the others are pretty good. Plus these companies are getting more and more suppo... : abrasion
      • Those AMD chipset drivers are no big deal. Just install them and forget it. It's not 4 in 1 drivers like... : MarksmanX
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    what, are you saying that 50% of all AMD systems are unstable and are plagued by hardlockups and BSODs? ... : Turd Ferguson
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      I guess we'll be finding out if AMD is remembering that in their equations or not... the original Athlo... : Downforce
      • the athlon classic? dunno havn't had any problems with it, well my roommate cooked the bios and we had ... : Turd Ferguson
      • Between 3 of my friends and I, we have a total of 6 Athlon systems, and all of them have been perfectly ... : StuMan1337
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    50% huh? Nice one troll. : johnny rotten
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      nope, just keeping fanboys in check : Downforce
      • thats not keeping the fanboys in check thats stooping to fanboy level by making the same (but opposite) ... : Turd Ferguson
  • Those people that are plagued with that problem have VIA chipsets! My system has an AMD 761 chipset and ... : MarksmanX
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  Intel should have new CPUs available in the timeframe that we're talking about clawhammer, shouldn't t... : bostrov
  • just P4's. : johnny rotten
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    Q4 02? I'm thinking only P$'s there from Intel : StuMan1337
    • Doh: P4, my shift key was stuck... : StuMan1337
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      Any word on how expensive clawhammer will be? : bostrov
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        When I was at the tech tour, they wouldn't answer those questions :( Damn PRL... : StuMan1337
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          clawhammer wont be that expensive. It'll be branded as Athlon and is AMD's mainstream processer. : johnny rotten
          • I belive it won't be much more expensive than an Athlon according to one rumour (I mean .. you know mayb... : abrasion
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  Actually I expect Clawhammer and future P4's to be competitive with the edge going to clawhammer, much l... : johnny rotten
  • There have been performance graphs released with Hammer running Q3. At twice the real clock rate, the... : Natoma

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• I thought it was the other way around. The 32 bit registers are a special part of the 64 bit registers. : Hmmm
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  and people were wishing for computers/platform decisions to get easier... thanks a LOT AMD... >:( : Downforce
  • Intel also has a 64bit chip out, but its not doing too well. I think AMD is first trying to get the claw... : StuMan1337
  • AMD may just be providing a migratory path for future design decisions. Phasing x86 out is much easier ... : timmie

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  good thing hammer is a wicked fast 32 bit processer! : johnny rotten
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    64bit IS useless for gaming, which is why the Itanium hit with a THUD. The 32bit performance of the Ham... : LoveGravy
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      itanium being a dud has more to do with its architecture (VLIW) than the fact its a 64 bit cpu. : johnny rotten
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        itanium a dud ? explain. it isn't for budget-saver gamers... : Downforce
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          it hasnt even done well in the corporate/enterprise server market where it was focused. Intels server s... : johnny rotten
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            That doesn't mean it's a technical dud, and it's too early to tell yet anyway. You can't judge the suc... : bostrov
            • Never said it was a technical dud. In fact, you're right that when software is compiled for VLIW it sho... : johnny rotten
• Dont expect 64bit cpu's to have a tangible impact on PERSONAL computing for the next 2-5 years. The nee... : johnny rotten

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• I'm waiting to see for myself as well, but it SHOULD. Using optimized 64bit code can make a big differe... : LoveGravy
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  It'll prolly be slower for the same reason doom would be slower. You'd be better off in a SMP environme... : lordlobo
  • Well, the MP hammers will have hypertransport links between the processors, and the bus they use allows ... : StuMan1337
• wont have any tangible benefits unless your pc has more than 2 gigs of memory. : johnny rotten

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  If their specs hold up, yes. The Hammer should be marked "XP23200+" making it the equivalent of a 3.2GH... : LoveGravy
  • not till september or so, right? : spector
  • I thought their rating system was comparing to how fast a Thunderbird would be at that clock rate, not... : bostrov

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  Yeah, can you support arbitrarily bright light values without clamping at the expense of dynamically tos : Maddog_Delphi97
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    * S H A C K T A G \m/ * : archon
    • The shacktag was intentional!! Honest!! : Maddog_Delphi97

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• ROFL : schroom
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  Probably because they don't understand wtf he's talking about and just smile and nod until he's gone awa... : Vantage
  • don't YOU understand it? : schroom
  • o_O many values in OpenGL are clamped within the range [0.0, 1.0]. in some cases, as with the ... : emacs
• I bet when John Carmack gets a lapdance, he shouts at the top of his lungs "CLAMP THOSE VALUES, BABY, YE : Maddog_Delphi97

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  ahhhh a classic shackcharacter post LOL : Downforce
  • Yeah, I thought it was a little odd that this post was the only one.. I was half-expecting a little piss : Maddog_Delphi97

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• LOL I hear ya, that man is amazing : buckshack

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• http://www.tecchannel.de/hardware/937/3.html : LoveGravy