Carmack Q&A

Hey..I\'ve got a suggestion. I hate it when people pretend to be talking, then frag you in the back
when you do them the courtesy of not fragging them. My suggestion is to have a delay before you can return to action
as well as having the smiley face turn red for at least 2 seconds. THIS would get rid of those
annoying fakers who can\'t get a frag unless that trick someone into it.

my 2 cents

By: pokwer [Oct 4th 1999, 01:05 am]
Drinking more is definitely a good idea! :) Pro gaming needs the backing of someone with lots of money, like an alcohol or tobacco company.
(Now there\'s a healthy image.) That way advertising for events and stuff will reach into the real world, not remain stuck in the net :)

Woohoo, now yer talking!! My desk is full of Coors, Skoal cans and Surge.
As if the Q3 rush was not enough. I guess I want my heart to explode

It does not matter one bit if footsteps come or go.
I\'m not one of those players who \"sneaks\" around anyway.
Some people do seem to be able to use footsteps to their advantage, but that\'s
because they have the lead and do not want to loose it ( most of the time).
To those people, I have no sympathy.

It\'s fun with them or with out..but I\'m all about choice man. Put as many modes in
as possible ID.

Peace and Gibs
[MR]GeleshkA

#369 said \"no, I am really sick of people saying that the \"best 1v1 mode\" is NO footsteps. This DOES in fact slow down gameplay, because there are NO audio cues as to where your opponent is except for weapons pickups. Someone please demonstrate to me how the hell absolute silence speeds up gameplay??\"

I would like to comment quickly on your argument or lack thereof on the issue of no footsteps slowing down gameplay. And I quote, from you

\"This DOES in fact slow down gameplay, because there are NO audio cues as to where your opponent is except for weapons pickups.\"

who\'s side are you arguing for exactly?, because i have no clue, in fact, it seems you are arguing on the side of no footsteps, because without audio cues such as the footsteps, a player can move more quickly without walking or bunnyhopping as would be the case if footsteps were turned on. Again you have demonstrated your utter lack of ability to reason logically and make an argument that even remotely makes sense.

I have never claimed that 1v1/duel mode is better without footsteps, the only argument i\'m putting forth is that we be given the option to choose whether to have footsteps for example, turned off or on, along with other micellaneous issues such as player physics, rocket damage, etc, etc, via a in-game mod programed by id.

Also I would like to comment on your previous post about how q2 was not q1, and i quote from you

\"Id didn\'t delay Q2 so they could make it more like Q1, and they should NOT do the same thing here.\"

Yes you are right on the point that id didn\'t delay q2, and because of that the end-user paid the price, in having to deal with various bugs when the game was first released, and the exclusion of all dm maps for multiplayer when quake 2 was first released. And afterwards the gamers had to download patch after patch after patch to fix problems and actually get some decent multiplayer maps to play on. So if you even have a point to your inane arguments, please make one, because I haven\'t seen any point to your posts thus far in our debate.

id has learnt from their mistakes and has released several of these tests as a way of getting input from the public as to potential problems and issues that people may have with the game, rushing it out the door isn\'t going to help anyone, especially the gamers who want the best multiplayer experience out of the box.

-Widgit

#366 Carmack does not need to keep pandering to the so called \"hardcore professional gamer\" because BOTH of U suck, ok?

Generalizations such as these get us no where. How have you determined who is hardcore? Someone who plays everyday, every two days, every week? You assume that a mode such as this only caters to the hardcore, have you done any research, made any polls as to who may want such a mode? I think given the choice, gamers would appreciate more to choose from instead of less as that is what you are suggesting. The \"pro-mode\" can only add to the game, giving each potential gamer the choice of what he/she wants to play. You noted yourself that you play mods in which each of them have their DIFFERENT RULES, how is this the game in which you quoted

\"It needs to be 1 GAME 1 SET OF RULES.\"

i think you are contradicting yourself.
Next time you make an argument, can you please back yourself up with logical evidence instead of resorting to weak insults such as \"BOTH of U suck\", ok?

If id decides to build a \"pro-mode\" mod, into the game, why should you care since you wouldn\'t have to play such a mode, which you hate, stick with whatever mode you deem fun and playable, how many does it have to be reiterated that no one is putting a gun to your head to play such a mode?

#364 said \"It needs to be 1 GAME 1 SET OF RULES.\"

I don\'t know if you\'ve noticed but quake has never been 1 game with one set of rules. The whole lure of quake/quake 2 was that is was configurable, due to mods and in game options. I don\'t know what bizarro version of quake you were playing but what you are suggesting is not at all in the spirit of what quake was founded upon which was options and freedom of choices to decide what you want to play, if Carmack decides to implement this \"pro-mode\" I think it would be in keeping with what their vision of quake should be. Besides the point is, even at the beggining of the development process they were already talking about having different modes and set of rules, it\'s only now that the issue has been brought back to the forefront of debate.

#362 i think you are missing the point entirely, carmack SUGGESTED a \"pro-mode\", so the idea of having a mode that caters to a specific group of players, be them hardcore or not, would not affect you in anyway because you wouldn\'t have to play the mode if you so decide. I\'d rather be given the choice of such a mode then to have a game without one because we all want the game to be the best that it can be. It all comes down to preference...ie do i like rocket arena, team dm, clan arena, or \"pro mode\".
As for coding the mod yourself, it would be easy to do so, but the problem with that is the \"mode\" would not be officially sanctioned by id, for competitive play, and since Carmack suggested that he was considering such a mode already, why not let id do it so that the players can then decide whether the mode is any good.
There are some who never play 1v1/duel and no one is asking them to, as it was in qw. Those who do want to play duel/1v1 are asking for a little more flexibility in the game dynamics, which I think is a reasonable request.
So why do you have to go out of the way to ruin such a thing that DOES NOT AND WILL NOT AFFECT YOU. I hate to sound repetitive but, if you don\'t like it, then don\'t PLAY IT. Please stop spouting out about how it degrades players, because I frankly don\'t see how this can be (it\'s like saying, I suck at duel, and because I suck at it I don\'t want the mode to be in the game)...it is an option for you to choose, nothing is being forced on you.
In fact I\'d find it more humiliating for id to assume that everyone wants the exact same game, with the exact same rules. No one will want that, we want to be able to choose what to play and given that carmack is WILLING TO CONSIDER a \"pro-mode\" I think the number of players who do want such a mode, is greater than you think. (where did everyone come up with this magical number of 10% hardcore players, did ya do a poll? how do you even classify a hardcore player?) I don\'t think it\'s right to make a generalization that only hardcore players would want such a mode, given the circumstances, more modes would definitely be a good thing for a game with such a huge following and ecclectic tastes among the quake community.

-Widgit

I would like to expand on my opinions on this whole debacle of whether or not we should have a \"pro-mode\" as John Carmack suggested himself, not firingsquad as some of you have wrongly believed.
For those of you just joining us in this debate, let me get you up to speed on the issues that are in question as I see them.

Q: Should we have a special \"pro-mode\" specifically tailored by id for duels/1v1/team dm, which involves tweaking of such things as sound of footsteps, rocket splash damage, player physics, and other miscellaneous issues which the quake community is split upon.

In my opinion I think that a \"pro-mode\" would be a great idea, that would only add to the diversity and depth of the game that we are all so eagerly anticipating.
Now on the split side of this argument there are those of you who feel that making such as \"mode\", caters exclusively to the hardcore or the elite of the community, but if this is so, I think I could safely say that modes such as team dm, lithium, ctf, rocket arena, clan arena, etc are also catering to a specific group, which in fact they are, but no one is complaining about it being to elite or hardcore. Just because a minority group of players prefer something different it\'s no reason to deny them this request because you don\'t like the mode yourself. Nobody expects you to play a mode you don\'t like, so if it is implemented and you hate it, don\'t play it then, nobody is forcing you to. I don\'t play ctf, or rocket arena, but they are there, and having that option is always nice in case I change my mind. Others argue that making such a mode would split the quake community. As I see it the \"community\" IS ALREADY SPLIT. No one is exactly the same, everyone is unique and because of that we all have our OWN preferences and nobody expects everyone to adhere to the same rules. People play their different mods, use different cfg, have different playing styles So I don\'t see a problem with \"pro-mode\" at all, and in fact I would actively support such a proposal, because the rule in life is, \"to each his own\", meaning we can make our own choices.
On the issue of the \"pro-mode\" itself being split, in that no one will be able to agree on what constitues a \"pro-mode\", I believe that id should make the option of voting (like in qwRING, KOMBAT TEAMS, GX MOD, ETC), for such issues in the mode itself. For e.g. Footsteps on/off, rocket splash damage percentage, player physics, etc, etc. Given these options or choices I believe the community would after some time come up to a general concensus of what works best and the server operators would be able to lock down the choices (if they so choose) to create a permanent mode that the majority of the players want, as it is in quake world right now.
ie. Most games played on dm4 are in deathmatch mode 3, where weapons stay, no quad. Dm6 where it is deathmatch mode 1, weapons respawn, eyes/no eyes. After everyone played these modes like this, the majority of players out their agreed with this as a norm, and I believe that the same would occur in quake 3 arena after everyone has a chance to vote in-game on the options, such as footsteps, player physics, etc, the mode that was most chose by the majority of the players would become the norm for competitive play.
Other issues I would like to bring up, is the question of the newbies. Now this is a favourite arguments of some of the others on this message board, but as I see it, a newbie who spends has any interest in this game whatsoever will play enough that they will come to understand the difference between these modes. Making a generalization that a newbie can\'t understand some basic rules is just plain ignorant on the part of any person that would use that as an arguement to the \"pro-mode\". We don\'t expect a newbie to HAVE TO KNOW EVERYTHING ABOUT THE GAME he/she is playing. I\'ve played quake for a long time, and consider myself knowledgeable in quake, but do I know every option, every mode, every console command for quake, of course not, and neither does a newbie. They will learn what they need, and discard what they don\'t, as did I.

-Widgit

#347 X By: Anon@216.13.16.5

Uhh, ok is 20% okay for you? A pro mod consist of LITTLE TWEAKS.. that id can do in some hours then put it into the game. Now, why the fuck do you care if you aren\'t going to play it fucking moron? Shut up and go play some lame ffa. I\'m not going to bitch if id includes a barbie mod. I\'ll not play it.

I second that, 349. Long live Pokemon!

They should make a \"QW\" Mod, so that it makes Q3 have the exact same physics/control as Q1 QW ... then 99% of the people whining would STFU and we could get on with our lives (btw, qw kix ass still, and even if they make q3 \"better\" then q1, ill still play q1)

btw, I ain\'t buying Q3 unless it comes with a Pokemon mode.

Well ok, I\'ll probably still buy it, but I\'m sure as hell gonna be pissed and let everyone know about it from here to Nebraska because id isn\'t satisfying MY needs. There.

Anyone want to create a Pokemon mod for Q3 with me?

RadPipe

Yet all I can think is, \"HE knows why he doesn\'t like it, he just doesn\'t care to share it with you cause you\'ll jump on him anyway.\"

Guess I\'ll add my peanut.

About Thresh\'s input: I think it\'s fairly obvious, that as one of the best pro-gramer-cyberathlete-whatever players out there, Thresh\'s input is certainly going to be treated as exactly what it is: advice from a pro-gamer. Don\'t make the mistake of thinking Carmack isn\'t intelligent enough to realize this. Obviously why he\'s considering making a pro-mode. \'cause the average player ain\'t a pro.

About everything else: Everyone wants their own version of the ultimate multiplayer game. I think that\'s why Quake spawned so many mods during its reign. Do you have a favorite? Mine\'s Teamfortress. The best plan, imo, is if id created a plain-jane DM engine, then brought in community mod-makers and organized/developed the whole thing in such a way that Q3A would be released in conjunction with a whole set of Official mods. Because that\'s really what we want. We want the next generation of our favorite mods, be it pro-mode DM, CTF, TF, RA3, whatever. And the plain-jane engine satisfies that overwhelming population of average players who haven\'t a clue what this pro-mode is all about, and don\'t care.

Anyways, I hope id isn\'t reading this. Finish the game already!

RadPipe

Hey I just thought of something about quake3 that\'s even lamer than footsteps: crouching (another one of those \"added realism\" additions). Is that \"inch along the floor while crouching\" some kind of 31337 quake2 move? I always feel sorry for the guy who learned to play like that. :/

Shhhh, I was talking about the 10% minority: the DM hardcore scene. We don\'t want Q1, just the best FPS competitive game ever. I don\'t want a faster RL, too much air control, unbalanced weapons like in Q1.. I like Q3 but it\'s not perfect.. and way too slow/boring for competition.

Thresh was the best Quake and Quake II 1on1 player.. ask immortal or Makaveli. Btw, both immy and mak find Q2 boring now..