Mod My Game Please

Do you suppose of the hundreds of games that developers out there spent an extra 3+ months of dev time making a game modifiable instead worked on just tweaking their game to make it more fun, would we have more good games on average?

I don't know. You think Quake3 would have been more fun?

Personally I think software companies be it game or any software for that matter, should take more time to get their product completed. I for one am tired of patching or updating everything on a regular basis.

As for games they should do both, take extra time to perfect the game so it doesn't need patching, and take time to make it modifiable for the game community. The whole reason needing both is to increase the longevity and replayability of the product.

I know a lot of people are gonna say yeah but what about getting the game out on a deadline or meeting a certain holiday deadline. Screw the deadline, if the product isn't polished it shouldn't hit the store shelves until it is. There has been a lot of crappy games that have hit the store shelves due to the fact that they (the software maker) were rushed into release.

I for one would have been more than happy to wait another few months for any and all id software titles if it meant a better product and almost no patching. Game companies really need to start spending more time on what will make their product own the market for longer than a month or so. I know I would buy more software at that point, rather than waiting to see if it is a hit or not.

While we are on the topic of games taking longer to get released. One thing that software companies really need to start doing is going hush hush with what they are working on. I mean releasing screenshot after screenshot and information constantly during production, in my opinion steals away some of the excitment and aw that comes from a game that just comes outta left feild. They should wait til the last month of production and start leaking shots and news about the product to build anticipation and then drop it on the community like a ten ton brick.

steve, why the fuck did you ever give up writing content?!?

There would be alot less violence if women were less selfish when it came to sex.

From The Register: "Ginger" nuts told to back off..

http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/2/16076.html

Seems like all the hype over "it" was really unintended and all the people were quoted out of place (bullshit if you ask me, publicly sell a 'secret' $250k book and you DONT want hype?).

On the stratification of mod making:

Generally speaking, people used to make mods so that they could make the game more like they wanted it to be. These days the prime purpose people make mods is to prove themselves as would-be developers. You could argue that the mod community in general spiked Quake2 and 3's sales, based on game player's prior experiences with DOOM and Quake's mods, but CounterStrike has done that singlehandedly for Halflife.

So what happens when all your mod authors want jobs, and the most successful mod is a team based realism mod? They see audience share as being the determining factor, so duh, they clone whatever is popular. This is the natural inclination: This is popular, so we should do this! It's like a microcosm of the FPS industry, and the results are similar: FPS' with great success and large communities are rare. The games that get there first and do something new and different tend to be the ones that win. Look at mods: Mods as popular as CS, besides CS, are nonexistent. I tend to think that this "clone clone clone" mindset would be unappealing to potential employers, but hey, if all the employers are thinking the same thing..

Reading these comments, you can also see how the mindset of the "mod consumer" has developed and changed. You see people bagging on RA3 because there are significantly more people playing CS. Now put that in perspective: RA3 is of a rare quality, made in large part by people currently employed in the industry. It also has a pretty big audience built in (which unfortunately means it can't change much, but hey). Now if expectations are so high that a mod like RA3 fails to win much appreciation, what does that say about some mod whipped up by 3 guys in a dorm room during a little free time after classes? That is, the same type of people who made all those Quake1 moding's golden years?

I'm looking forward to seeing how Neverwinter Nights does. The average joe still wouldn't mind knockin out a level, if it wasn't so difficult. When it doesn't take too much time, I think the average player enjoys making games as much as playing them. That hasn't changed over the years. Of course, the fruits of such effort are not the same: In Starcraft, no particular trigger based map is excessively popular than any other, and they all took similar amounts of time to create. Games that try to push the tools into the hands of the average gamer aren't going to see mods arise that actually manage to sell additional copies of the game.

But ultimately, what is important? Selling extra copies, or keeping your current community happy and playing your game?

i think if u spend an extra 3 months polishing your game, and its better, thats good, but that doesnt meen the game will live longer. If you are going for the life of a game you better get tools out

and i guess if the game was not fun enough when u had to make decision on whther to make it modable or polished it probably is not that good anyway

The best MOD to date is the Rocket Arena MODs :) RA3 will live forever! :) [I know I just jinx myself!]s

WOW!

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http://autoshow2001.carpoint.msn.com/autoshow2001/asx/DodgeViper_300.asx

IMO, it's the base game that draws a crowd. Since the vast majority of people out there are still low bandwidth users, most of them dont want to shell out 50 bucks for a game that sucks and then have to download some 100 megabyte monstrosity of a mod that takes them 2 days to do, not counting disconnections and boredom.

The game itself will always be the deciding factor on wether or not the game succeeds or fails as a whole. But what you must understand is that this serves as a Katalyst. If the game is modifiable, than yes, the katalyst activates a second reason to buy and thus makes the game much more fun. Simple explanation would be: People buy the game based upon the game itself, but if it has other features, word of mouth gets around making the game that much more profitable.

It's very hard to explain.

Quake 1 hit it perfect with mods and a badass game. Quake C OWNZEEERDZIEDFEDZE!

Postin this in two parts because the Shack is gettin on my case bout it:

On successful mod communities:

Look at the games that have significant mod communities, and by significant I mean you have (or had, if the game is old) a lot of people playing the game, and playing mods for the game:

DOOM/DOOM2, Quake1/2/3, Unreal/UT, HalfLife, Starcraft.

There are other cases, but these've been the most significant. Two lessons in particular can be learned from these examples:

For a mod community to build around a game, it has to be super popular to begin with. It's not so much "which came first, the chicken or the egg?", its "if you dont have the egg (the popular game), it ain't gonna hatch and give you the golden goose (a thriving mod community)".

Unreal and Halflife (especially) proved that you needn't be the first prospector to stake a claim, which one could have argued in the years that passed after DOOM's release, with the huge difference between the id game communities and the competition's communities. Halflife is a particularly impressive example because they didn't even release their mod tools until long after the game came out. The game did so well, however, that people knew they could make mods for the platform without jeopardizing audience size.

In the case of UT and especially Starcraft, the developers tried to hedge their bets a bit and make it easier for the little guy to make mods: UT with its mutators, and Starcraft with its easy to use map/trigger editor, and just as importantly, a central server setup that actually sends maps around to players that don't have them. Because of this, if you jump on bnet, you're likely to find just as many people playing trigger based usermaps as you are official Blizzard maps.

Here is a little bit of history for you. It should have taught all game developers that easy mod making is a GOOD THING. Its a little classic for the Nintendo Entertainment System, called: ExciteBike.

speaking of mods, has anyone played Knife Arena for Counterstrike? OMG its FREAKING AWESOME!

grab it here-
http://dl.fileplanet.com/dl/dl.asp?planethalflife/counter-strike/maps/map_packs/ka_mappack.exe

I really wish we could get past the whole mod for the masses stuff. Most people do not have the skill, time and energy to do a mod. What is needed (or wanted to be honest)is contruction sets. Something where the average computer user can throw down something playable in an hour or so and be happy with what they have done. Back in the late 80s/early 90s there were several such sets. Adventure Construction Set, Racing Construction Set, Pinball Construction set, Bards Tale CS, abd Adventures Unlimited. To Some degree, Never Winter Nights is going to be close but not truely flexible enough. However nothing has been on par with this programs of the past.

I wouldnt say mods help sales, most people who download a mod alreaddy have the game the mod is for.. but mods do keep games popular, they increase the game life which is surely a good thing. *sits back and recalls the night he downloaded CTF beta for Q1 from threeworld* Ahhhh, the seed was planted.

see, ID software just make engines to be moded....they dont make fun games anymore (like q1)

Take away the Internet and this whole mod question becomes mute.

Besides there are many open source games out there which are not exactly "popluar". Even after Quake1 code was released its not as if they are incresing sales of it. (code doesn't include single player)

steve, you are really good at rambling

By the way why isn't anyone making a UT Assualt type mod for Q3?! With the new terrain shit it would be hella smooth.


/me bitchslaps the UT community for wasting such a cool gametype

I think the base game has to be fun in the first place. Then adding extra elements in mods makes it more fun and increases longevity. I started with Quake playing on lan and I had a blast although i sucked at the time. Then I went to QW when i got a comp and net connect. I didn't like the fact that good players could whore the RL and RA in maps like dm6 and own. Then I found out about deathmatch mode3 (weapon stay) and the Rune/Matador mod. 6 clean runes, all useful, off-hand grapple, and sniper rifle. That was by far the best ffa experience I have ever had. I played that shit for hrs.

Now you look at Collisuem for Q3 with is close to the Rune/Matador for QW. Why isn't it catching on? Q3 doesn't fit it. Booring and cramped maps. With the exception of a few maps the texture mix is ugly, there really is no atmoshpere and its too damn small. It just doesn't feel nice. No more feeling that you are in this gritty castle but instead disco looking multicolored arenas. The only mods going anywhere for Q3 have their own maps. With TCs Counter-strike has raised the bar in terms of quality.

Q3's appeal for me is basically the competitive aspect. I blame the game design people at id for not giving the game any soul, blame the artists cause of their asstacular textures, and I have a feeling that 80% of the few good maps are made by Willits (or wtf his name is).

Quake 3 wouldn't be shit if it wasn't modifiable.

I think the answer is:
If you are making a game then your first priority to make it fun and worry about modifications later.
If you are making an engine then the modification side is your priority.
Since I don't know anybody who'd work on an engine just for the engine sake then I'd say to make your game fun is the most important thing.

VE now looks like another planet site, and its still takes too long to load the f'ing page...

What the hell can someone be somewhat different?

Here's my take on mods:

1. When a dev team ships their title Gold, rarely are there significant game enhancements added after. There are exceptions to this, but mostly it's bug-hunting and the occasional release of 'additional play content' such as levels or models.

2. It takes awhile for the mod tools to be released after shipping Gold, source code and mod tools (Q3Rad) and so forth, so it makes sense to keep working on the game itself, and continuing to add features up until codefreeze, or the last possible date when new content can be added to the game. I say this because most gamers in the first 3 months are playing the game as it was intended to be played and not working on mods. And we all know that playing a game the first time through is a very special time because you are seeing things (1 1/2 years + of work) fresh and new. Everything after the first complete playthtough is just a bit less exciting, but can still be very rewarding.

Mods should be 3rd or 4th down the line in priorities. The 1st and 2nd priorities should always be maximum features and playability.

Thanks!

-Lex

Modding only helps if your game is good and popular in the first place. If Half-Life sucked, there's no way Counter-Strike or TFC would be as popular as they are now.

BTW you are all retarded..

My View: Modding doesn't really bring in NEW customers at all. The people who care about mods and care about playing online are the people that probably bought the game in the first place. It's not going to draw in a lot of those "never played an FPS before" gamers. The one good thing about having MOD support is to keep the customers satisfied, we've come to have it as an expectation rather than a feature, if valve put out TF2 without mod support for instance, they would lose a huge fan base.

i think ive just grown up :(

now im making the games than playing them, and need moneys too

bah, the whole online/gaming scene seems to be dying.

gone are the old days of a few years ago, when somethingawful was updated with good hard funny shit, no offsense to lowtax, the jeffk stuff is still funny in a lot of instances, but none of it is freshand in your face :/

the same with the mod scene, nothing seems to be done for pure gameply, hardly any inspirational ideas, and those simple GOOD games arent played by the mass because "theyre just small updates on FFA" (specificly im talking about the hulk mod, fun as fuck nobody has even heard of it or played it)

dont get me wrong, rocket arena3 is good, quakerally looks great, but i dont find stuff as orignal and keep me playing like choas did (thats a q2 mod you weenies ;)

the more popular sites these days seem to be E/N sites, stileproject, and some others are getting more and more attention. that and (in my case at least) the "old-school" style sites like http://www.boob.co.uk yknow stuff not for the masses, and done BECAUSE THE THEME is good, theyre doing the sites cos they have something to say/do (even if it is irrelavant), but they kick serious ass.

FPS's are seeming to get too commercial these days, more and more gamers.com/xsreality sites are popping up (eg: shack es) and i find myself retreating purely to irc/icq more and more.

oh well, time to startup my E/N site

oh (mebe i should have put this in werd ;)
more ppl online, mean more ppl are going to the big sites, the tiny sites are getting bigger because of us that know theyre there.

more weenies == more bandwidth == more cost == less big sites :[

I think modding has lost that garage programming feeling...nows its all proffessional and must be published shit...

Problem is now that people expect perfection or whine about a mods release if trees look square, or the models dont have 23524352354 polys...

HLDM does suck more ass than an asian prostitute.. but Counter-Strike RAWKS

GET ON THE SHUGASHACK CS SERVER U FRUITS!

I think web sites should be user-modifiable.