Carmack on K7!

Several things...

I really doubt there is much point ordering a K7 via mail order without the proper motherboard. It uses the bus of the DEC Alpha, so hopefully the MB will be good. It shouldn\'t be anything like the current Super 7 boards, as Socket 7 really was designed for lower speeds, and this is using a whole different system.

Kryotech (www.kryotech.com) has promised to offer a 1 Ghz refrigerant cooled version. They demoed it at a recent AMD shareholder\'s meeting, so I guess it has the blessing of AMD. How\'s that for overclocking?

No matter how well the k7 overclocks, I\'ve read that the k7-500 will run as fast as the p3-600, and that will scale as you compare the next k7 (ie k7-550 = p3 650).

The k7 is going to be the processor to buy, and it will still be cheaper than the same clock p3 and still be faster than a 100mghz \"faster\" p3.

39, 35, etc etc etc:
A product that costs $26 million right now isn\'t going to magically fall to $1000, or even $1,000,000. What company would be stupid enough to buy one now when they could get one for a fraction of a percent in a few years time?

A $26 million product (It isn\'t even $26 million right now, they said \'will cost\' $26mil) will still cost millions for years.

Oh, and when I said not to hold your breath, I meant it in terms of \"I doubt you\'ll ever see this system,\" not \"don\'t wait for this product, it\'ll cost too much.\" It\'s still wishful thinking to me.
Keep in mind the company is just over a year old. Also, a team of 120 is programming all the software. Not only are they creating a \"reconfigurable computer system\" which they need to develop software for, they have to create emulation for various operating systems. Microsoft can\'t develop an OS with hundreds (thousands?) more programmers. They love to slap around that term \"reconfigurable,\" even though they never explain how the hardware can process so much information. You still need some damn quick silicon to pump out those numbers.

to #38, the company that makes the hypercomputer is only selling high-end systems right now for $26 million so they can make their money back, but as soon as they do a cheaper version will be for sale as a desktop computer

35, no offense but I wouldn\'t hold my breath for this thing.

fuck intel.

damn, I\'ve got to spell check my posts more often

About the hypercomputer post I made at #26,

I got $1000 from http://www.pcworld.com/pcwtoday/article/0,1510,11336,00.html Yeah I know it doesn\'t mention the price much in the article
but when they get the system they\'re using perfected it can then be built using assembly line production greatly decreasing the costs. They \'hypercomputer\'
seems to be the cpu of the future, noticed how at the companies website it mentions that hal can also run windows programs in an emulator. Not jus tthat but
they have also created their own operation system.

Just wait a couple of years.

Just an FYI. Intel is dumping slot 1. It took them a year and a half longer than everyone else to realize that it sucks. Of course they didnt know that RAM was going to fall so much in price. Expect some of the .18 micron 600mhz to be in a socketed form. Sometime later on they will all be socketed again.

I think they need to quit benchmarking shit and send us the updated Q3Test for QuakeCon99. It\'s bad enough we\'re playing the Test/Demo instead of the full game for the first \'official\' Q3A tourney.

No one can use Slot 1 but Intel, that thing is protected better than a[insert virgin joke here]. Besides, K7 took so long because they designed it from the ground up. The last time Intel did that was with the Pentium Pro like 5 years ago or something, they\'ve just pimped out the P6 core which is why it doesn\'t take much for them to release P2/P3.

And people are right about the K7 being cheaper than Intels prices right now. But by the time the K7 gets to us it\'ll be what, September? October? Who knows what Intel will charge by then - I\'m sure they\'ll charge less for the P3 than the K7 at that point just to fight off AMD. They can keep the P3 high right now because they still don\'t have any competition until K7 systems become available.

I don\'t have any idea which is better, I\'m just glad that Intel has some real competition! Everyone benefits from that kind of scenario.

To the poster of #20:
Weak FPU!? Are you forgetting what you\'re replying to??
These 3rd party numbers prove the K7\'s FPU gives intel\'s chips
a mild beatdown. And there\'s numerous limitations about slot1,
most importantly the fact that they can\'t use it!

To the poster of #26:
I\'ll believe it when i see it. That whole project seems way too
far-fetched to believe, not to mention the fact that it\'s still 24
years off, according to Moore\'s Law. A \'small\' company pushing
out a chunk of silicon like that? No way; fabs cost billions.

Oh, and oddly enough-- at the end of the year the pentium III
will hit the 2,000 mtop mark. Dividing 12.84 trillion by 2 billion.
12,840,000,000,000 >> 12840
00,002,000,000,000 >> 00002

We get 6420. You\'re trusting a company that can\'t do simple
math to create a chip that outperforms supercomputers?

As far as I can see, the \"hyper-computer\" is a specialized device, for specialized appplications. You won\'t see it on your desk very soon (or anything like it).

In 1998 the Electronic Frontier Foundation made Deep Cracker, which broke RSA\'s 56 bit DES key in 3 days by brute force. Previously these challenges were broken by distributed computer involving thousands of computers throughout the internet. I think it used FPGA chips as well, but I\'m not sure. http://www.eff.org./descracker.html

the price of the hal (hyper computer) is said to be $26 million-not a thousand.
where the hell did you get a thousand?
*)

correctiong, the \'hypercomputer\' will be 60,000x faster then a 330mhz cpu. Still that would be 19, 800, 000mhz. Not too shabby.

why buy the latest processor when in less then 18 months
you\'ll be able to buy one 60,000x faster for only $1000?

http://www.wired.com/news/news/technology/story/17862.html

Actually NSM could have made Slot 1 Cyrix chips, but they choose not to since the Cyrix chips were generally low cost. NSM has cross-licensing agreements with Intel for things like this.

By the way, the Dec Alpha chips and the K7 are interchangeable on the boards... so if you want the best board, you could skip the AMD option and go fork over $1500 for the best motherboard (i.e. one normally only used in production servers).

Go AMD Go!!!!

First off... K7 has a 200Mhz Digital EVA bus hence the reason it has to use a new slot design and the fact that AMD is not planning on playing catch up when it comes to the K7. This could be their last charge on Intel if they (if AMD can\'t make a high enough yield for demand) don\'t cut the mustard. Then again, Coppermine is going to get stalled again mainly because they need to upgrade the fabs, good thing for AMD though... They share some fabs.

I\'m just hoping it\'s going to come down to David and Goliath with David carrying a huge fucking bazooka. AMD has made some errors in the past (Flop on every other cycle due to not using the other FPU with 3DNow!) Let\'s see if they can figure out a way to overlook the other FPU in case the 3DNow! instructions are not being used and go flop per cycle since the AMD FPU is much superior to the Intel design. Think about it, an FPU doing nearly as much work as a P2 or P3 FPU ever other cycle.

Also with so many hardware manufacturers adding in 3DNow! optimizations and ISSE optimization, not to mention Direct3D with 3DNow! and ISSE support now.

Blame Intel, the won\'t anyone use Slot1...

I agree! They should have made it work with the current motherboards!

The AMD chips have a weak floating point. The sorry VIA and ALi motherboards are complete junk. This K7 sounds like it may be ok but why are they taking so long to release it? K7 yield problems? Motherboard problems? Shoulda just used the current Slot 1 or Socket 370 motherboards. That\'s AMD for you. Look at their current motherboard status and look at what they are doing AGAIN for the K7! Remember back when we just had Socket 7 motherboards and you could buy a Intel, Cyrix or AMD chip and put in it? Those AMD chips worked pretty good in the Intel boards. If I was working at AMD, I would have made the K7 work with the current Slot 1 or Socket 370 boards. Not reverse engineer the board they chose to use.

Oh yea, and as for the motherboard question:

The k7 motherboards run with 200 mghz front side bus. 200!

Enough said :)

You guys are forgetting the important shit. How well does the K7 overclock? Right now you can buy a p3-450 for $245 and are virtually garunteed 560 or 580mhz.

You also forget that AMD motherboards tend to suck ass. And we have to hope the new mobo\'s aren\'t plagued by the Super7 AGP problems.

IBM needs to buyout AMD. that would mean lots and lots of cheaper K7\'s for the market, and intel would have to be scared.

Last reply. I promise!
lot/bulk price k7 600mhz = $699
lot/bulk price k7 550mhz = $479 - now
lot/bulk price p3 550mhz = $730 - now
lot/bulk price p3 550mhz = $658 - july 18
lot/bulk price p3 550mhz = $520 - mid-september
Hmm.. 550mhz K7 bulk price is already $41 less than p3-550 in sept.
Of course, by september we should see the 650mhz k7.
600mhz P3 planned for release in september at a revolting $761

lot/bulk price k7 500mhz = $324 - now
lot/bulk price p3 500mhz = $482 - now
lot/bulk price p3 500mhz = $423 - july 18
lot/bulk price p3 500mhz = $299 - september
Well, they (AMD) missed this one by $25

I\'d say by mid-september, you\'ll see:
A) K7 500 - $180-240
B) K7 550 - $320-375
C) K7 600 - $500-550
D) K7 650 - $650-750

-Lupin, needing sleep and being wrong yet again. :)

oops. made the lines a little bit too long. :c

All apologies

Personally, the price of the k7 isn\'t all that hideous. A k7-500 is faster than a p3-550, we know that much. The bulk price of the 500 is $324. Here we
have people complaining about a $325 chip that outperforms a $690 p3. (That\'s the lowest price for the 550 on pricewatch.) Even the 500mhz p3
can\'t be had for under $400 ($439 right now.) What we\'re seeing with k7 prices is a little thing we like to call fleecing. While demand is high for the
chip, the prices will stay high. Yet, even with these ~$500 prices (500) -- you\'re getting a price/performance ratio better than what any Intel chip can
offer on the highest end, celeron 300a, 466 excluded. Once we see the k7 used as a hook product by mail order comps, the price will drop to right
around the bulk price from AMD, perhaps lower (once it\'s no longer top of the line ie 700mhz k7 in q4.)

I\'m probably very wrong about something in here (I\'m too lazy to check the p3 bulk prices, bite me) but it seems odd that we\'re complaining about the
price of a chip when
a) The price of the k7 is highly inflated from demand.
b) AMD isn\'t controlling the price of the chip here, the mail order comps are. $175 markup. Ridiculous.
c) You can\'t even buy the damn thing yet!

PIII or K7. Clock for clock, I\'m going to get the one that is cheaper. I wish John would have compared a K7-550 to a P3-550.

werd up #9!

AMD better get some good yields from K7. You know most hardcore users have no patience and will likely buy an Intel P3-600 if they can\'t get a K7 quickly. I don\'t blame them but I just hope AMD can get it\'s act together. Or they could just use robots like some car plants instead of slow break abusing humans.

Maybe AMD can finally start making money now. They better go with this thing (more chip releases) or they\'ll just get screwed again. At least they finally have the superior gaming processor, which is an all-time first. That\'s really the only thing people give a shit about, processor-wise, you know?

Well, I hope AMD\'s price can stay up, and they produce a ton of these things. AMD needs to make some bucks, so they can stay in business, and also, it will encorage others to redouble their x86 clone efforts.

Well, I hope AMD is able to flood the market, and give us some good cpus.

I want a K7 SMP Linux box for Quake3. :)

I agree with Maalox. Intel is wasting it\'s time plucking celery sticks and taking AMD for granted. I guess it\'s also the fact that AMD has had trouble with yielding, but hopefully this won\'t happen with the K7.

They probably still do cost $2000, since they\'re antiques now :P

Well I guess that both those benchmarks are with drivers tweaked to the max for 3dnow or kni (or whatever it\'s called) for the respective chips. It\'d amazing how much cpu power new games need.

Good thing there\'s still two companies battling it out for the PC CPU market. Once one is gone, prices go back up. Remember when a 486 DX2-66 cost $2000?

This sucks. AMD finally puts out a decent CPU and it\'s actually expensive. These things better get cheap soon...

Intel and their x86 architechture have been a chain around the neck of PCs for over 20 years. If K7 finally makes Intel release Merced sooner... Well, lets just hope Merced is decently priced eh? I\'d love to see a 64-bit Quake4...

And Perl rules your ass...er...I mean...Pika Pika...CHUUUU.

Holy crap! That K7 is better than I thought. Maybe that\'ll put some pressure on Intel to come out with Merced faster and stop twiddling their thumbs and attemping to put overclocking-locks on celerons?

Let just hope the competion bewteen AMD and intel lowers the prices of
the P3 and K7 faster. I hope my willy-wonka gets bigger,but the chip prices dropping is more likely to happen