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Bad Press
by Steve Gibson, Aug 25, 1999 2:34pm PDTHere is an article from the Ottawa SUN that Sean sent in and it doesnt exactly shine a good light on the whole 3D shooter market. In fact this is probably one of the worst ones yet. I encourage you guys to read Rob Granastein's article, then think about emailing Greg Oliver the content director over there. Stuff like this is just plain dumb:
Grossman said a game called Quake 3 was pulled from the market recently because it allowed players to scan in pictures of real people and then kill them
Comments
ICIP - aka IcomeINpeace
Thread Truncated. Click to see all 7 replies.
Thats all i have to say.
FUBAR: The Canadian Pyro
adcyt@home.com
it is the teachings of the adults in their community that are
ultimately responsible for everything that children learn and
grow with; in turn, these are the things that become the
foundation for everything they think of in the present and in
the future.
* Guns don\'t kill people
* Media or any type of interactive media don\'t kill people
* People kill people...
A way of thinking doesn\'t materialize out of thin air, and
parents (kids are not hatched, contrary to popular belief) hold
the the keys to what values and morals shape the thoughts that
their children have. Children are the responsibility of their
parents first and foremost, and if the parents can\'t have
integrity to hold up to their responsibilities, then why did
they have children in the first place?
As for the military using computer based graphical simulations;
well, that\'s true...it comes out in the news from time to time,
but those simulations are not a substitute for real training
and are for basic tactical responses--and it\'s cheaper to
indoctrinate large numbers of troops with, than having one drill
sargeant for every 100 or 1000 soldiers.
The simulations have better retention than text-book readings,
which they replace. The sims do not substitute for real-life
situational operations. The retired Lt. Col. should get his
reasoning correct before spouting off and stating opinions
instead of facts just so he can sell more copies of his book.
http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/5.04/ff_doom.html?topic=&topic_set=
can anyone confirm this for sh*ts and giggles?
Heheheh...D\'ya think the Ottawa Sun has got more emails than they have readers yet?
Hope he responds to me.
I agree, changes are made, and perhaps after this id will try to not include the scanning feature. But all I am saying is that they did have SOME basis to establish that very inaccurate statement on. I agree, it didnt really look like Rollins, except for the little picture, it looked exactly like him, and you could recognize the tattoos on the model as well. And the model was called Rollins.
Everyone playing it realized it was just a game though, which is why Rollins aint dead, hehe.
Drop him a line .....Hell drop him a hundred lines for all I care..
Have fun....
First of all I do read pcgammer..[= but I must of missed that article on Q3 in which they explain about scanning in pics but you must remmember that there alot of modifications tested on games and alot of them dont make it into the final versions of games when they hit the stores..
Secondly the Henry Rollins skin looks nothing like him ..its cartonnish at best and doesnt come close to anything that those so called reporters are talking about ...but you point is well taken... Its just a GAME !!!
Cause I have seen various ones in the previous posts and I want to be sure of it before I send him my opinion on the matter, and why his statements are inaccurate.
Thanks,
Nasty Jack
In the first article I ever read on Quake 3 they talked about how, in the final game, you would be able to scan pics in and kill them. One model had the realistic face of Brandon James of id on it. Of course that stupid Grossman is still wrong, as the game isnt out and you presently can\'t do it right now anyway, but still, just so ya know, it will be possible. But then again, I remember fragging the Henry Rollins skin in Quake 2, and im sure thousands of other people did too, and Henry Rollins is alive and well. Henry Rollins kicks ass. I put him in the game cause I liked him, not hated him, which im sure is what the maker of the skin thought too.
They are making too big of a deal out of it. Personally, I would rather put the faces of my friends and kill them (because its just in fun as every single Quake gamers knows...) rather than my enemy. That\'d be pretty pathetic if that was how I vented my anger.
(L.T. Grossman)
As to Quake 3, the entertainment \"expert\" for a major New York paper told me
this, and reported it as fact, as did (completely independently) Bill
Blakemore of ABC news. Furthermore, there was recently a major AP story
about a game with a software feature that made it possible for you to \"morph\"
a scanned picture (perhaps your boss\'s picture) onto a target that you shot
at in a video game. Perhaps they were all wrong, or perhaps you are not
fully informed?
4 elite NYPD officers fired 41 shots at Amadu Dialo (an unarmed, motionless
man) at point-blank range and hit 19 times. carneal fired 8 shots, got 8
hits on 8 different targets, 5 of them head shots and the rest upper torso,
I trained the Texas Rangers, the California Highway Patrol Academy and a
ballation of Green Berets and they were all stunned to hear of this. No
where in the annals of military, law enforcement, or criminal history can we
find an equivilent achievement. The link to the video game training is so
powerful that a $130 million law suit has been initiated against the
companies. Perhaos there is no validity to this, one must keep an open mind,
but the courts think that the charges deserve their day in court.
The Army uses the basic Super Nintendo, replaced the plastic pistol with a
plastic M-16 and modified the software a little, and they have several
thousand of these which they are using as marksmanship training devices. The
Marines have licensed Doom as a tactical training device. And the cops world
wide use a simulator identical to most of those you can find in any video
arcade to train cops. Perhaps they are all on drugs as well, but perhaps we
should keep an open mind...
Best regards,
Dave Grossman
Kid killers linked to video games
Arcades teaching violence: Army expert
By ROB GRANATSTEIN, Sun News
HAMILTON -- Kid killer Michael Carneal, 14, fired eight shots
into a prayer circle and hit eight students in Paducah, Ky.
Never in the history of law enforcement has anyone shot with
such accuracy. Even the FBI\'s average hit ratio is only 20%.
\"He was playing a video game,\" retired Lt. Col. David Grossman
of the US Army told Canadian police chiefs here yesterday.
\"Only this game was for real.\"
He told Canada\'s top cops that society is facing a new breed of
killers nurtured on violent arcade games.
\"These video games are murder simulators -- we\'re training them
to kill,\" he said.
\"These kids go on autopilot -- they\'re drilled to kill every living
target until they run out of bullets or targets.\"
Grossman said a game called Quake 3 was pulled from the
market recently because it allowed players to scan in pictures of
real people and then kill them.
Grossman is a West Point psychology professor who has
founded a new scientific field called \"killology\".
He said the worst video games are the ones that actually put
replica guns in the hands of children.
He\'s working with authorities to have age restrictions put on
violent video games.
Jefferson County Sheriff John Stone said there was a definite link
between video games and the shooting at Columbine High
School in Littleton, Colo. that claimed the lives of 12 students, a
teacher and the two student shooters.
\"These guys played a game called Doom, which is a game where
you kill and hunt people down,\" said Stone. \"The difference is the
video games don\'t shoot back. We did.\"
Parents of the three kids killed by Carneal in December, 1997,
have launched a $130-million US lawsuit against several video
game manufacturers.
They\'re also suing the makers of the movie The Basketball
Diaries in which a character blows away a bunch of kids.
Charles Whitman----40%-50%?
Lee Harvey Oswald----100%
Timothy McVeigh (I know, he ditched guns all together).
name posted on such a great game site makes me glow. I will pop out in a minute or two to get todays
sun to see if there is a retraction printed!!!
giggle giggle
...maybee they feel stupid :)
I don\'t think simply holding these view is what everyone is so pissed off about, it\'s the completely factless argument that paints video games, us, and id in particular as the problem without bothering to check even the smallest thing out.
Yes, he\'s allowed to hold those views. But when he goes around making claims such as those he made about Quake III, he is tainting an audience that might otherwise be open to discussion with the view that these games cause violence. Most laypeople won\'t take the time to check whether an expert witness really knows what he\'s talking about, they just assume that he does.
When Grossman makes these claims, he is tarnishing id\'s reputation, possibly causing financial loss, and responsible for libel, and while I don\'t suggest people mailbomb him, it wouldn\'t be out of the question for id Software to sue him (for libel).
~Mario
John Cronin
crony@nycap.rr.com
If you want to read some of his stuff check out
http://www.igs.net/~tonyc/ct.html
I got that article from some college named Bethel in KS
http://www.bethelks.edu/~krehbiel/gp/gp99.html
apparently he was their convocation speaker one year and their psych students read the above article for a course...
its a looooong a** article by the way....